Allied White Star - Evolution of a Symbol
They were everywhere but we don't necessarily ever think about the stars painted on Allied WW2 vehicles. Why did they vary in colour and design, and how did they evolve through different campaigns? Find out here...
Dr. Mark Felton is a well-known British historian, the author of 22 non-fiction books, including bestsellers 'Zero Night' and 'Castle of the Eagles', both currently being developed into movies in Hollywood. In addition to writing, Mark also appears regularly in television documentaries around the world, including on The History Channel, Netflix, National Geographic, Quest, American Heroes Channel and RMC Decouverte. His books have formed the background to several TV and radio documentaries. More information about Mark can be found at: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Fe...
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Disclaimer: All opinions and comments expressed in the 'Comments' section do not reflect the opinions of Mark Felton Productions. All opinions and comments should contribute to the dialogue. Mark Felton Productions does not condone written attacks, insults, racism, sexism, extremism, violence or otherwise questionable comments or material in the 'Comments' section, and reserves the right to delete any comment violating this rule or to block any poster from the channel.
Main Source: 'SHOP TALK - I See Stars' by Tom Czekowski, National World War II Museum
Credits: US National Archives; Library of Congress; Imperial War Museum; Raymond Douglas Veydt; Fat Yankee; BrokenSphere.
Пікірлер: 603
The Japanese Hinamaru symbol was referred to by the Americans as a "meatball".
No obscure detail escapes Dr. Felton's in depth research. Great job.
@als4817
Жыл бұрын
Brilliant work as always, thanks for posting ! One would think after all the reading I've done on WW II, that the question of these stars would arise. Nope. Always leave these segments, a wiser and more informed person. Thanks Dr F !!
@glennmassengill7400
Жыл бұрын
When I was in the Army during the early to mid 1970’s our vehicles had a black stare instead of white.
@beepboop204
Жыл бұрын
🙂
@sniper60605
Жыл бұрын
@@glennmassengill7400 That’s racist. 😂
@sjustice5254
Жыл бұрын
It’s a pentagram. Satanic to its core. Shows you who and what is really running this corporation known as the good ole USA 🇺🇸
While taking a training course to upgrade some skills in regards to my job back in the 90's, one of my instructors was a WW2 Canadian veteran. According to him, the Canadians weren't very happy having to mark their vehicles with "Yankee" stars and would sometimes rearrange the orientation of the points - just to be different. He also postulated that the main reason for painting them on was because the "Americans shot the crap out of ANYTHING not marked with one".
@wombatwilly1002
Жыл бұрын
LOL
@tyree9055
Жыл бұрын
I believe that. Considering that most Americans were ignorant of anything outside of our own country back then (isolationism has both its benefits and drawbacks 😅), most wouldn't know the difference between a Pz IV, a Pz VI, a Churchill, a Cromwell, or a Crusader. It took me a while to recognize their differing silhouettes (and I wasn't pressed into immediate military service either)! 😂 Even today, I bet you'd be hard-pressed to find the average soldier who could rightfully determine any country's vehicle(s) other than their own on a battlefield...
@joejohnson4183
Жыл бұрын
Just like when the US introduced camouflage in the European theater as they had in the Pacific theater , they had to remove them because of friendly fire incidents . Apparently the soldiers seeing camouflage uniforms thought they had to be German because the SS wore camouflage smocks , even though they were not even close to looking the same .
@tyree9055
Жыл бұрын
Just look at how an American soldier described a German tank during WWII (and this is from memory, so it's not accurate): "...the German tanks were huge, with guns the size of telephone poles." I believe it's from the Battle of the Bulge time period, but those people were doing the best they could with what they had, which wasn't much. I'm not knocking on them. It was just a more ignorant time period in-general, where the only identification systems were experience and a handful of silhouette cards that I'd bet 99% of troops did not see at all until after the war!
@alanaldpal950
Жыл бұрын
@@tyree9055 ‘Considering that most Americans were ignorant of anything outside of our own country back then” ? I guess the internet did not work well back then. 🤔 What is sad is how many are ignorant now while having so many tools to not be
The M3 Lee tank in the photo with the yellow star. That M3 is at the Americans in Wartime Museum in Virginia. It's also known as a "Tank Farm" by the locals. I've been going there since the 90s and have had a chance to check out many of the tanks there. The Lee tank in the photo is worth a Dr Felton video. It was built in 1942, sent from the US to India, transferred to the British, and fought in Burma. It is a combat veteran. After the war, she went to Australia and became a tractor. In the 80s, a British collector bought her and took her to the UK. She was restored as you saw her in the photo. In the 90s, she came to the US. In the early 2000s, they found the commanders turret for the 1919. I have had a chance to ride inside the Lee tank and crew it for the open houses in a full US tanker kit. If anyone reads this and has a chance to visit the museum, come out during an open house!
@bastarddoggy
Жыл бұрын
Are you referring to the tank museum north of Danville? Awesome place!
@natejones902
Жыл бұрын
@bastarddoggy no not that one, there are 2 tank museums in Virginia, this one is next to Quantico
My father bought an ex US Army Chev utility from war disposals in 1946. It had been roughly painted over but the star was still quite visible when he traded it for a sedan in the mid fifties.
@susanlister753
Жыл бұрын
My fad jad an ex-RCAF Canadian pattern Chevrolet 15 cwt during the 1950's which still carried its RCAF roundels including a yellow ring around the outside of the red/white/blue roundel.
Personally, I think those white stars with olive drab vehicles looks cool. ❤
@mardiffv.8775
Жыл бұрын
The Germans also thought the white star was cool, because it was a great aiming point for their anti-tank guns. Unfortunately.
@genek8630
Жыл бұрын
@mardiffv.8775 So very true to the point that many allied tankers would use almost anything to cover them. I saw a photo of a Sherman that had the stars covered with green tape.
@THEBIGGAME683
Жыл бұрын
Iron cross or white star, what's better?
@warpartyattheoutpost4987
Жыл бұрын
It's classic and reminds me of the 1982/83 G.I. JOES and their vehicles I had as a kid.
As a military modeler I had often wondered about this, but have been too lazy to research it further. So thank you for saving me the effort by sharing this informative video.
@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623
Жыл бұрын
If anything it's the most interesting part of being a modeler. Doing the research. And learning that even until recently there is a large variation in unit marking between individual US divisions.
@tyree9055
Жыл бұрын
The irony (in my personal experience, which is modern though) is that every single platoon can have it's own markings as well. One just has to know what it is that they're looking at. Of course, this is all post 9/11 doctrine (at the unit level, not nationally) and has nothing to do with the older systems found in WW2, Korea, and Vietnam.
@beepboop204
Жыл бұрын
😉
@erikkunkle9574
Жыл бұрын
After D-Day, just the white star was on Lend Lease Vehicles. The invasion star represented American units with "American" equipment.
@arcanondrum6543
Жыл бұрын
I don't know which of these is more "heartwarming" 1. Reading Comments all over the internet from people too lazy for research or 2. Seeing the number of Likes that that sentiment gets and/or comments in support of yet more ignorance. Probably, it is 3. Asking questions in the Comments section and expecting the truth with again; no intention of Researching what they've read.
I was an army brat and I know for a fact that the white star was on some vehicles in the early 90s. I remember seeing them, mostly on jeeps buses and older vehicles. The ones that come most prominently to mind were officer vehicles.
@gobblox38
Жыл бұрын
The star is still painted on Hummvees, but it is black and only about 3cm tall.
@tomsteadman9520
Жыл бұрын
Small stars are still on all wheeled and tracked vehicles. They are very small, and will be either white or tan if on a green/brown paint job, or black if it's on a tan paint job. They are on the front of the vehicle.
@americanpatriotism1776
Жыл бұрын
Same here dude my father served in the US Army from 74' to 2008. 82nd Airborne and transitioned into the Army National Guard. Back in the early 80's they were still using jeeps and hueys that seen action in Vietnam
@HomerEscobar1
Жыл бұрын
Well see the red star was already in use by our communist allies
I always wondered about the evolution of the star as an allied identification symbol. Now I know! Thank you Dr. Felton.👏😊
@wildbikerbill6530
Жыл бұрын
I imagine much was driven by ease of execution and identification in the field - the real driver behind eliminating all the colors in favor of a simple white 5-point star with an optional white ring. All you needed was a brush, some white paint, preferably a stencil, and you were good to go with an easily recognized symbol. It's not hard to find photographs of repurposed German vehicles with crude Allied star(s) slapped on the side(s).
We still use the star today in the army. My tank had a roughly 3” black star on the front slope.
Dr. Mark Felton is to history what Sir David Attenborough is to nature....a match made in heaven!
@warpartyattheoutpost4987
Жыл бұрын
Mark's a rockstar.
@MrRugbylane
Жыл бұрын
David Attenborough is a malthusian.
@jonhall2274
Жыл бұрын
Ill be damned if that isn't a spot on analogy & comparison!🙃😊
@garywagner2466
Жыл бұрын
Um, no. Felton (as far as I am aware) has never lied to his viewers like Attenborough routinely does now that he is a leader in the climate cult.
@GdamRight
Жыл бұрын
@@garywagner2466Good observation. I stand corrected then :)
The roundels on Royal Navy aircraft fighting the Japanese had a "bar" added and the red dot deleted. This made the roundel resemble the US Navy marking, not the Japanese sun. The Americans gained a reputation for being trigger-happy, and keen to shoot anything and everything. The extra bar probably saved lots of British and Commonwealth lives.
@mardiffv.8775
Жыл бұрын
Yes, and the Dutch Air Force in the Dutch East Indies/ Indonesia nowadays did not use the orange triangle, but the old pie chart red-white-blue roundel used in the Netherlands. Because the orange triangle could be mistaken for the rising sun. The Dutch Air Force in the Netherlands changed from the pie chart to the orange triangle, because a Dutch bomber was shot down by the Germans over the North sea. Mistaken the pie chart for RAF roundel.
@jeffkeith637
Жыл бұрын
@VIPICCB8 Burma? And when did the Soviets actually enter the PTO?
@raypurchase801
Жыл бұрын
@VIPICCB8 Your comment contains many errors. You are clearly a troll and you don't deserve a detailed reply.
@raypurchase801
Жыл бұрын
@@SgtShnackendale Agreed. VIP is spewing nasty nonsense. He's clearly never heard of the Royal Navy's participation at Okinawa, where the armoured decks on the British carriers saved them from the kamikaze attacks. Or Kohima and the Burma Road. Don't bother feeding the trolls, it'll waste your time and only make them hungrier.
@tramlink8544
Жыл бұрын
red was also removed from the Blue white red stripes on the tail of RAF aircraft in the pacific
Post white star a subdued "black star" was also used in the 70s and beyond for quite awhile and is still seen on tanks as part of gate guardians.
This Army retiree with over 30 years service appreciates this. The uniform patch is now a star within a star. A symbol of heaven in heraldry, no?
Somewhere we have a photo of my Grandfather (a Canadian) standing beside his CMP truck, painted with the white star. Seeing it was when I learned that all the allies used the white star, not just the Americans.
@1pcfred
Жыл бұрын
If you didn't want to get killed by Americans then a marking Americans respected was prudent.
What a great explanation. I use to paint that star on all my US armory without knowing why until today.😂😂 Thx Dr. Felton
Think of it as being the ground counterpart to the Invasion stripes, sometimes referred to as D-Day stripes, painted on planes. Having a standardized ID symbol was definitely a good thing and probably helped prevent at least some "friendly" fire incidences. Friendly is in quotes because friendly fire isn't, shall we say, friendly.
@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623
Жыл бұрын
Although I reckon more soldiers lost their lives to 'friendly' air attacks then pilots who got shot down by their own side. Even recently the British lost more soldiers to the USAF then to the Iraqis in two Gulf Wars and the US Army prefers to use its own Apache helicopters for close air support then the USAF.
@timf2279
Жыл бұрын
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 Completely false.
@PantherBlitz
Жыл бұрын
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 citations please.
@warpartyattheoutpost4987
Жыл бұрын
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623, when I was in we had a lot of USAF A-10s providing us CAS...
@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623
Жыл бұрын
@@warpartyattheoutpost4987 It was USAF A-10's that attacked British Warrior IFV's during Desert Storm killing 9 soldiers. A good CAS aircraft, but deadly in friendly fire.
The things you learn on this channel. My father fought in WW2, and I grew up learning about the war. And in all these years I never knew the other allied powers also used the white star. I wonder how many times I muttered because an article about a British operation had the "wrong" pictures.
@silentotto5099
Жыл бұрын
Lol... I went through that phase also before I finally figured out the reality of the matter. What has piqued my interest since then is the Soviet adoption of the red star to mark their equipment. It's difficult to dismiss the nagging feeling that there must have been some sort of convention agreed to amongst the allies that a star shape should be used to mark allied equipment. But, as nearly as I can tell it was just a coincidence.
Hadn't realized the sheer number of variations and had mostly associated the star with American vehicles. The white star with a circle with openings near the points looks quite fashionable even today.
Brazilian troops, in Italy campain, used the white star in white circle as well.
My favourite patterns of the White star is on military aircraft of the 50s and 60s with the white star with red & blue banner on either side. The Captain America symbol.
I always learn something new!!! I had always thought the White Star with/without the Circle was 100% American vehicles... Thanks again Mark Felton!!!
I had wondered about the accuracy of the white star on non American Allied vehicles, this has certainly helped. Thank you.
fun fact. US vehicles may still have a small black star on them. this is usually found near center of gravity. The ones I saw were about 2 inches by 2 inches or smaller. Unit and vehicle markers for identification are still used today, but not a big white star.
@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623
Жыл бұрын
Low visibility markings to comply with regulations that military vehicles should be marked with signs denoting nationality? Just look at the air force. Very large roundels with often bright unit markings, that gave way in the 80's to small low viz grey roundels that might as well not be there at all. And some countries, like South Africa and Rhodesia, removed all national markings during war. They do tend to break up the camouflage that is supposed to make aircraft and tanks less visible. .
@mardiffv.8775
Жыл бұрын
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 You are right. Also NATO vehicles dropped large visible national marking and adopted the universal camouflage pattern of green, black and brown. So the enemies did not know from what national army the vehicle belonged. Small national flags (4x2 inch/ 10x5 cm) and convoy blackboard markings with the national abbreviation were retained. Suchs as NL for the Netherlands.
I was in the YS Army 1968 to 1970. I drove a Jeep and a 2 and a half ton truck with the white star on them. When I go to the VA hospital near me they have a Jeep at the gate with the white star. Good to know the history of it.
Awesome video per usual. Apparently there’s a reason why the Royal Canadian Navy have a green maple 🍁 leaf on their funnels. During the Korean War, supposedly an American aircraft had a ship lined up in its sights and at the last minute the pilot realized it was a red maple leaf and not a red star. Cheers 🍻,take care and stay frosty ⚓️🇨🇦🫡🇬🇧⚓️
and am I the only one who has noticed that at the bottom right of our full-screen video screens we have the Balkenkreuz ...?
Does anyone else get the Mark Felton theme stuck in their heads whenever the mind drifts to anything vaguely military-related? Piotr can’t be the only one.
@mike-xn1qj
Жыл бұрын
You're not alone
The current chevron on US vehicles is the lambda used on Greek Spartan shields. "With this or on this."
Very interesting, Ty. I was always told, by veterans, that the white star was first ordered by Pershing in WW1. It was actually a white 5-pointed star (taken from his Gerneral's flag) inside a blue circle and a red circle inside the star (to represent the national colors). Great vid.
Another Mark Felton gem. Your videos are always very well done and interesting!
There was, at least briefly, a black star on camouflaged US Armor in Germany in the mid 1970's. M60A1's , Sheridans , M109's and M113's all had it. That was at Bamberg in West Germany . There was a sand, red and green pattern used at the time.
@qingyunwang3802
Жыл бұрын
Always wondering which US Army document finalized the removal of white stars. Must be before the introduction of Abrams.
Well done, thank you. I imagine myself as a Motor Pool Sergeant being told 2 days before an Inspector General (IG) visit they changed the "star," again. SNAFU!
Oh, military vehicle collectors think about it a lot. I own a 1984 M1009 truck and it actually has the star, but it's black decal 2 inches high on the front and rear. It's location is shown in the -10 and -20 maintenance manuals and the TB-43-0209 Painting and Marking manual. I also think that the yellow paint in WW2 may have been a chemical agent detection paint that would change colors if you were gassed. The early lots were yellow but they were supposed to be white.
Waking up to a fresh war stories with Mark Felton vid. Good start to the day!
The Star isn’t completely gone. You can see a subdued black star on the front of many vehicles such as LMTVs and Humvees
Thanks for that bit of history, I can imagine friendly fire casualties were a huge problem
Durning the 1970s, 1980s, and perhaps later, the US Army also painted small(approx 7 or 8 inch dia) black stars on it's vehicles. These are still seen on some older vehicles to this day.(I understand that the USAF also experimented with black star insignia on it's aircraft in the 70s and 80s)
Many of the "stars" were painted over with olive drab, black, or any green paint available, sometimes just looking like a dark star painted on vehicles, I've even seen photos of tape, or mud placed over stars. The white star was a perfect aiming point. This can not be overstated. There are photos of American tanks with numerous "holes" at or near the white star.
@skaldlouiscyphre2453
Жыл бұрын
That's a problem with insignia in general, there's plenty of similar pictures of German vehicles where the cross was used for aim.
@TheBooban
Жыл бұрын
Everyone shoots at the center of mass, where the symbol is, so this is not strange.
@kirchoffkyle
Жыл бұрын
Same thing with the Japanese flag pained on their carrier decks, many dive bombers used it as a target
@zlcoolboy
Жыл бұрын
Just make sure to put the symbol in the best place for the enemy to hit for the tank crew being hit.
As a Canadian, I had no idea that we used the white star during the late stages of the war!
@1pcfred
Жыл бұрын
That's because earlier in the war Americans and Canadians were known to shoot at one and another.
It's very interesting to see Korean War pictures, as much of the UN Coalition there including the British also put white stars on their vehicles to identify them better (and IIRC also because they were technically fighting under mostly US top generals).
Great video Dr Felton learnt a lot . It would be great if you could do a video on the Maltese cross. It seems it is on every country medals. From Germany, United States to Great Britain
I've never been so early.
@TheSoonToBePurgedJackMeHoff55
Жыл бұрын
I've never seen a less original comment
@KodakYarr
Жыл бұрын
@@TheSoonToBePurgedJackMeHoff55 One to receive a heart as well 🤦🏼♂️
Mark u have the skill for finding/reporting on the average n it's so interesting/informative. Kudos for upload. Hopefully more to come.
Hello from Detroit Michigan USA Great video Brother thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise and for taking us on your adventure through time
I had always assumed the white star was there because it was painted on during the manufacturing process and the vehicle had been built in the US, they distributed to all the allied forces.
At 3:30 into the video, on the French Sherman, we see below the star a variation of the Free French flag - a white diamond with alternating red and blue corners. Sometimes this had a Croix de Lorraine in the white diamond.
In the 1980s the US Army painted small black stars on the rear of most of its vehicles. I don’t remember seeing them on US Army vehicles after the 1991 Gulf War when most US Army vehicles were painted in the sand/buff color
@timf2279
Жыл бұрын
I have never seen on the rear just the front. They still paint the front with a black star.
Being a US Army veteran of the late 80s, though the mid-90s, I can tell you we still used the star as a marker back then... It became black and quiet, a bit smaller, and it was centered on the front bumper..Some of the older tucks, like the 2 1\2 and 5 ton trucks had a small white stare off centered on the tailgate. Our older track vehicle where hit and miss. I remember a small black star on the front of the M 88s and some of the M 113s. I must say that one would have to be right on top of the vehicle to see it.
Mark, you are truly amazing how many sources you must use to get all this information is mind boggling kudos to you
@warpartyattheoutpost4987
Жыл бұрын
Mark's a rockstar.
Mark. Thanks for providing my Monday night entertainment!
Dr. Felton, Can we assume more Evolution of a Symbol stories? This was fascinating !
Excellent explanation. Thanks. I often wondered about why Britain adopted the white star.
I never would have guessed there was this much detail to the star or that it was not an entirely American symbol. Fascinating stuff as always!
The Soviets had a red star, and Putin has a Z.
Another great video, love the attention to detail - now I can identify specific campaigns based on the star on the vehicle! Thanks Dr Felton!
Fascinating!!! And outstanding work, Thank you Dr. Mark Felton!
I really appreciated that last line - thank you Dr. Felton
Love this!!! No stone left unturned! Thanks for another informative video, Dr. Felton!
Excellent information as usual Mr Felton. Something I've never thought about but I will from now on!
This answered some questions I have had for a long time. Thanks as always!!
It's funny I spent a few days last year researching this topic trying to figure out which type of star to paint on a trailer that would be 'appropriate' for a 1941 timeframe. It's interesting how the USAAC is fairly well known for at least early on flying with the traditional 3-color roundel while the army land vehicles never really had any of that memory stick. (Of course the USAAF and USN aircraft went through the same series of revisions to try and make it more distinctive as well.) Came away from that research learning quite a bit, but mostly that a basic white star was the easiest and least controversial option. Such a niche topic but an impactful one.
A most interesting video. I've long followed the evolution of national markings on US military aircraft, but this study of vehicle markings is new to me and much welcomed.
Outstanding video. The star vehicle marking; Such a simple concept, but great details in it’s history. Thanks for sharing your research doctor.
Great video. Also the crews of these vehicles sometimes painted over the star to hide due to the enemy using it as a target like a bullseye. 😊
@krone5
Жыл бұрын
the germans changed their cross due to this.
You do this stuff so well! Even your talent as a narrator is excellent!
Thanks Mark Felton Productions!!
Another great story. Interesting and engaging as ever. Love this channel
Thanks Dr Felton, very interesting, loving your work.
Thank you for sharing 🎖️🙏🏆🇺🇲🤗
Very few people ever knew that mark.Less than 1% of people knew that,because I have never heard of different stars for different campaigned vehicles.Thank you for that enlightened info MR.Felton.Ya,that's wild.
@vintagethrifter2114
Жыл бұрын
A lot of us knew that even if you didn't. They also did it for aircraft which is why a lot of us can tell how we know that aircraft was in Operation Torch or Operation Overlord etc.
@sonyascott6114
Жыл бұрын
@@vintagethrifter2114 What was the operation torch markings?
@sonyascott6114
Жыл бұрын
@@vintagethrifter2114 Also,explain "a lot of us".
@vintagethrifter2114
Жыл бұрын
@@sonyascott6114 Yellow circles around the insignia. Some B-17s had yellow on their vertical stabilizer. By us, I mean people that know their military/WWII history. You'd be surprised how many people think that the Air Force used the B-26 into the late '60s because they don't know the difference between a B-26 and an A-26.
@mikeyj9607
Жыл бұрын
I knew about the different styles of stars used during the war ,what I did not know was that the Brits and Candaians used them also
Great video, always fun to learn the details
Fantastic and informative as always. Well done
This was really great and intresting! I diden't know the diffrent star symbols had so much thought behind them.
This is so fascinating, thanks for this great history lesson.
I'm so grateful for this content. Thank you !
3:50 Excellent tip!!!! Thank you!
Learning facts I didn’t even realize I wanted to know! Dr. Felton hit it again.
You're a hero for providing free educational material, Sir Felton.
Years ago a Veteran from the early 1950’s mentioned to us that the white paint that was used also had another purpose, it would change color is there was poisonous gas in the area where the vehicle was at. He didn’t mention what era this was started, or when this practice may have been discontinued, but he seemed like he was a knowledgeable source of info from back then. He did serve with the 7th I.D. out of Fort Ord back then.
Very insightful. Old infantry guy and I had no idea of the evolution of the white star. Thanks
Fantastic information, thank you Dr Felton. Still so much to learn about ww2!
Wish he would do a deep dive on Milton Wolff and the spanish civil war volunteers who went on to be OSS operatives
Great work on this , thank you .
Another interesting video - thanks Mark!
More information that l was not aware of. Thanks Mark 😊
Informative as ever. Very interesting, mostly because it is a minor detail that most people would shrug off.
We still have a white star for military vehicles. The one with the circle is maritime forces (Navy, Coast Guard and Marines) and the star only is used by the Army, Police and Air Force.
Very interesting video! 2 observations though. American army vehicles still use a star - but it's tiny, flat black and is usually found on the bumper. The second observation is cultural. Many Canadians were incensed that they were ordered to paint a white star on their vehicles - they didn't want to be confused as American units. So, in a minor act of mutiny and show of "tweaking the nose of the Americans", they deliberately painted the white star slightly cocked a few degrees to one side or the other. Some units went even further by painting the star upside down!
@skaldlouiscyphre2453
Жыл бұрын
Canadian passive-aggression is limitless, eh?
@1pcfred
Жыл бұрын
The irony being the equipment the Canadians used was likely of US origin and said Made in United States of America on it somewhere.
@skaldlouiscyphre2453
Жыл бұрын
@@1pcfred Seems like you're underestimating Canadian materiel contributions. 14 percent of Canada's total war production went to the United States (according to the US Army WWII history pdf, hosted on their website). Half of Allied aluminum and ninety percent of Allied nickel was supplied by Canadian sources during the war. You are right, at least about their tanks though. The US, Canada and UK standardized around the Sherman, even if the Commonwealth countries made them into Fireflies, Skinks and Kangaroos. American production was adequate for Canadians to end production of licence-made Shermans (Grizzlies). The Canadian military was much more like the British one than the American one at the time. Similar to how American tank production was adequate for everyone, there's areas where Canadian production was adequate for the Commonwealth in ETO. With that in mind, there's areas where American production would have largely served non-Commonwealth Lend-Lease partners and domestic forces, with the Commonwealth nations taking care of their own needs, based on their own doctrine.
@1pcfred
Жыл бұрын
@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 what percentage of US production was Canada's production? Was it even 1%? I'd be surprised if it was. So 14% of almost nothing is practically nothing at all. I'm not making light of Canada's contribution. I'm sure they did all they could. But Canada is a very weak country compared to the USA. Canada pitched in nickels and we spent billions.
@skaldlouiscyphre2453
Жыл бұрын
@@1pcfred Of course the country that's more than 11x bigger in population and more substantially industrialized contributed more overall. That said, Canada contributed about 10% of overall materiel, more than $9.5 billion worth. Between 1941 and 1945, the U.S. exported about $32.5 billion worth of goods through Lend-Lease, of which $13.8 billion went to Great Britain and $9.5 billion went to the Soviet Union. ~$50 billion overall is the figure PBS quotes. 9% the population, but nearly twice the dollars per capita contributed, close to 1/5th the contributions overall. Between 1939 and 1945, Canada’s gross national product (GNP) more than doubled; the gross national product of the U.S., as measured in constant dollars, grew from $88.6 billion in 1939 - while the country was still suffering from the depression - to $135 billion in 1944. All in all it's a bigger contribution (and impact) relative to population and it's a lot more like quarters to dollars than 'nickles to billions' as someone so ignorantly put it. That's not to downplay American contributions, they were critical, but they were far better positioned to contribute (in terms of economy and population size). Canada's contributions are outsized compared to their small population and relatively underdeveloped economy. That's the point I'm making. To answer your specific question directly, American contributions were about 5x Canada's. 20% is much more than 1%, now innit? Yanks show up late and pretend like they did everything just because that's how Hollywood portrays it. 😂🤣
Information I didn't know I needed... good stuff
usefull but never really thought about it until now! thanks for sharing. 😎
Great explanation I have always kinda wondered about them👍👍
Thank you, Dr. Felton.
Very interesting. Not aware of the coloured origins. Had to re-subscribe as didn't get a notification for this.
THANK YOU ! Very informative.
Another interesting story, on an often overlooked subject😊
Amazing to see this documented! I never knew the difference!
Thanks Doc, I Always Wondered About The Difference Between Them All.
Very interesting. I will make note of this for my next model build
Great review of a relatively unknown subject!