All that Rogues need to know is that nobody invites us in their groups

@aleksi6170

4 жыл бұрын

Why is that

@MrWarrlove

4 жыл бұрын

It can be easier if you start your own groups👍👍👍

@iiitzurlzrd

4 жыл бұрын

Very true, happens everyday

@jamesjames9052

4 жыл бұрын

@@aleksi6170 cause everyone's looking for mages

@jari2018

4 жыл бұрын

My rogues always dies ,weakset character ever close to holy priest but holy can at least heal himself -protetion warrior over rogue any day

its 00:45 am... i dont even play rogue... what am i doing with my life?

@a1no1x

3 жыл бұрын

lol

@williamblyth6270

4 ай бұрын

Lmao

Dude I have been looking for this video for so long! So glad someone finally did show the calculation method. THANK YOU

Great video Metagoblin! One thing worth mentioning is that calculating the value of your gear is alot easier if you also break down agility and strength into "power score" aswell. Afaik it would be 1 agility = 1.9 AP in pre-bis gear, and 1 agility = 2.2 AP in end-game gear. And a flat 1 strength = 1.1 AP. If you're calculating agility/strength value as alliance for raids, don't forget to add a 10% value to the "power score" due to Blessing of Kings.

@mjk8520

4 жыл бұрын

I was going to make a similar comment, the actual values for the power score will scale up as you get better gear. As your AP and over all dmg goes up, the value of crit also goes up, given you are at the hit soft cap. Overall this a great guide and definitely highlights the need to not over pursue hit rating. Sword spec will get value at out each hit% over the soft cap as was stated in vid, but Dagger rogues can easily chill out a couple %'s over the soft cap and start stacking AP and crit if gear permits.

To anyone who doesn't know, to "kankleate" something is to think about it for a month strait while eating nothing but cheesecake.

@BombayPotnoodle

3 жыл бұрын

strait

That's too many cankulations for me.

Desperately needed this crit to ap conversion, ty for saving me the time of having to do it myself lol

So it's probably a matter of time til someone makes and add-on that does all these calculation in the background for you and displays it nicely for you. This is very interesting thank you for this

What is the resource on the calculations? Is there any way to get conversions for hunters and warriors?

Canculate 😂

@Jtw.Outdoors

4 жыл бұрын

Andy Edmondson Dont be a dick.

@Riggjob

4 жыл бұрын

CAnkleAte

I need this for my hunter. I just don't understand what weapon skill over 300 provides for bow/gun/xbows. If there is a crit cap or how much AP is worth to AGI cause agi provides crit. Is crit better than ap and if so up to what point. Should I just stack ap with no crit or just stack agi with no crit or ap bonus. I just don't understand. Please help or could some one provide a reference. Thanks

Metagoblin, I love your videos! What is the name of the addon that shows the swing timer of your main hand?

We have a rogue in our guild running the 6 piece set and it's starting to look like hes putting out more dps with shadowcraft then with t1. We are going to experiment with 3 piece stormshroud

@mrillis9259

Жыл бұрын

Majority of T1 is just noob filler gear.

Stats weights are dynamic so a good idea would be to mention the DPS spreadsheet made by Bloodmoon from the Rogue Classic discord.

I have devilsaur set and nightslayer helm and boots. Makes more sense to replace devilsaur with shadowcraft to get six piece bonus or replace nightslayer cap and boots for shadowcraft six piece bonus?

Try calculating what pieces you need from the dungeon tier 0.5 set,because some are now epics and the 6 piece set bonus becomes a 4 piece

fantastic video, thank you!

Should i get the 2 piece devilsaur set and then replace it with the shadowcraft or just get the shadowcraft and discard the other? Or get both?

is there a way for a rouge to express all stats with a power score? u only score the offensive power and totally forget the def. my main focus is pvp and things like staminia, evade(this should boost agi's value), armor have a value, but how to compare this to offensive? a dead ppl cant do damage at all..

hit cap is 9% without weapon skill against boss level targets (63) 6% with 5 weapon skill or more with your weapon.

@ranciusclay7750

4 жыл бұрын

yes, normal melee classes need 9% hit from items. as a rogue however you should be raiding deep in combat spec. you should have Weapon Expertise talent, wether ur dagger or sword. anything else you think you may be viable to raid in is wrong.

@IWillSexU

3 жыл бұрын

@@ranciusclay7750 Not really. Deep assassination(seal fate) may provide higher dps in the last phase of the game

Awesome video! How does it work on wotlk? And how does it work with Spirit, intelect and so on mages, priests and such as... Please?

Also don’t forget that 29 agility equals to 1% crit and 29 ap where as 1% crit as a stat is just crit by itself.

@Fartboy226

8 ай бұрын

And 1% dodge about and armor

I think you can combine stormshroud and shadowcraft. I wonder if they share cooldown and if worth it to lose stats. Always wanted to know.

The word was "invented" in 2005 by a rogue named Ming AEP Agility Equivalency Point

@coneman89

4 жыл бұрын

Ming was one of the first rogues to hit Rank 14 and pioneered a lot of theorycrafting

@Ty-cw7kr

4 жыл бұрын

BROOOO MING. Was he on Lightning's Blade, right? Alliance Female Rogue im pretty sure. I remember playing against him a lot in AB.

@IWillSexU

3 жыл бұрын

The word was invented by somebody who was commenting on ming's theorycraft, not Ming himself. I also heard this guy have died, not sure though..

@jamescpalmer

4 ай бұрын

@@IWillSexUlore for real. greetings from SOD.

You should add the stamina in the power score too. Like 10 stamina means +10 to power score :) (when talking pvp at least) Also could make a calculation about how +resistances/armor/defense would affect the power score? Something like shadowpanther does but in deeper detail? (pvp wise)

Nice video! Keep mana bars out of melee to avoid eating lava burst (Feral druid was in melee stack)

I am not a rogue but i find it very informativ. Would love *.* to see guide like this from you for priest (heal) or even healers in general. Or can someone recommend one of this quality to me?

Is the shadowcraft 6 peace bonus also working for druids ?

How much is the power score of stamina in pvp in your opinion?

Oblivion background music. Massive respect.

As a combat rogue in BWL is 8-set Bloodfang better then going for Boots of Shadowflame + Nightslayer hands?

Hi mate, what is that addon you have that shows you other stats like hit% and crit% that doesn't show on a regular character interface?

@leostrandberg8888

4 жыл бұрын

I heard now that you mentioned it in the video but I didn't catch the name on it xd

Would talent choice change equilivant value and with more hit would that also increase the value of crit. Can't crit if you don't hit. Where did the values come from?

@Rockman019

4 жыл бұрын

The chance of crit over time compensates for the flat damage from the hit

what is the hitcap for ´pvp ? doing a lvl 19 twink and not sure to go for 5 % extra hit or 5 % crit

@mordiggian2730

4 жыл бұрын

5%, on a lvl 19 twink... 0%

When I played classic I was like 13 or 14 and I bought my rogue as much stamina leathers as I could find cause it increased my health lmfao

Crit is equivalent to a different AP depending on what your actual AP is. its more of a percentage scale than a flat AP scale

What about items with +dagger skill like muggers belt and distracting dagger? Also, on top of the +5 u get from talents.

@patricks.1356

4 жыл бұрын

Dont go higher then 308 weaponskill, thats all u need to know

@mojx-m

4 жыл бұрын

Why 308, ive read 310 is the soft cap? No items give +3 dagger skill, youll get either 305 just with talents or 310/311 from muggers belt or distracting dagger.

@lillodon9157

4 жыл бұрын

Mojeer one point in the expertise talent gives +3 iirc

@mojx-m

4 жыл бұрын

@@lillodon9157 you get 305 with expertise maxed

Quick question, as a dwarf, do I need 6% hit or 9? I have viskag in MH and gutgore in OH. Would a perditions be the best OH?

@southernpride494

4 жыл бұрын

Yellow hit is 9% for dwarves, as a sword rogue you want a sword as your off hand like mirahs song or brutality blade

@Swigg1337

4 жыл бұрын

Definitely want a sword in your OH so that it can proc sword spec as well.

Which 6 of the 8 would be the best to get? Maybe keep the devilsaur set and get the other 6? Or is there a best combination of the 6 to have?

@ranciusclay7750

4 жыл бұрын

get cadaverous chest, bloodfang hood. the rest shadowcraft., if you don't have bloodfang hood use eye of rend, hurleys eyepatch. if you don't have cadaverous armor use bloodthirst/tombstone breastplate or the one from the spawnable boss in UBRS.

I'm currently at 4:28 and i'm screaming at the screen CALCULATE!!! sorry had to get that off my chest lets proceed.

You calculation of the TER for alliance does not factor in Blessing of Kings (10% increased stats) This is however very much relevant, since BSR, PWB and the alterac ring all have no agi/str, so it is a unique advantage over other rings as alliance. The hakkar buff (once zg is out) and dark moon fear agility buff also factor into this.

Below 300dps + not using swing timers :/ why do you even have that AddOn when you dont use it correctly...but he can do maths

I dont understand why 1% crit is 28 AP for horde and 29 for alliance. I also think that there is diminished return on hitchance. If you get your 3rd point of hit%, that is more effective than if you would get your 6th point or so.

A tip is to just do (agility / 29 = critchance gain). Its faster

Just divide the agility on an item by 29, because 29 agi = 1% crit.. then multiply the answer by 23( 24 for horde) to get your AGI CRIT... Easy. Then add the AGI + AGI CRIT + other values to make it the POWER SCORE.

Why does your character info screen look different than mine does in classic?

@Granditaz

4 жыл бұрын

He' is using a addon, think it's this one: www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/characterstatsclassic

Is questing/grinding the best way to level i cant find a zf group to save my life as rogue

@Bubblewins

4 жыл бұрын

You Cant Skate in game type /join LFG

@tiptonjw

4 жыл бұрын

Questing is great but def try to throw some dungeons in there!

so to break it down; AP = 1 , STR = 1, AGI = 1.828 , Crit = 23 (alliance) 24(horde) (28 with WF), hit = 18 (after cap). These numbers assuming you got 305 wep skill and 6 % hit, or 9% hit and no wep skill. Did i miss anything? This is of course changing when higher tiers of gear becomes available due to soft caps being reached (crit specifically).

Where is your source / how do you know how much AP hit and crit is comparable to? Without that this is just bromath and is a guess at best. Also - as hit has diminishing returns you can't use a flat rate for it....

wouldn't loading the values into Pawn be quicker than doing maths?

There is just a slight problem with the calculation, as you say crit scales with gear, same with hit. Therefore you will never have static attack power equivalences for these stats, you cannot just flat out say that 1% crit is 24 AP, how much AP 1% crit equals will change depending on how much crit you have, how much hit you have, your weapons etc etc.

@reecekoers1661

4 жыл бұрын

this comment is a lol because AP does not equate to Crit.

Whit 6 piece shadowcraft dont the value of hit increase alot?? Know that in tbc hit is higher value than all else because of the talent giving energy on off hand hits.

Would it be better to keep the devilsaur set and replace the rest with shadowcraft gear to get the 6 set bonus?

@therealronswanson

4 жыл бұрын

this is what im looking to do, currently running 6 pieces shadowcraft but i had to drop the devilsaur gloves since i dont have the SC tunic, once i get it i will swap out SC gloves for devilsaur

Does someone know if 29 Agility alway equals 1% crit regardless of the Charlevel?

@evinjongen-fay1006

4 жыл бұрын

That's only for level 60. Less agility needed for 1% crit at lower levels. It's balanced with your level; the amount of agility needed for 1% crit increases with your level.

Hi m8, like your vids. Saw you in IF earlier, hi =)

What was the name of the addon you said at 7:00 would you please write dowm under my comment thank you

Do you still stream on Twitch?

only me who noticed he isn't using that melee swingtimer at all on raggy fight :D ?

@n1mroo

4 жыл бұрын

afaik it's not a big deal since he is playing Alliance anyway

You factor in windfury but not pally buffs. Kings makes raw stats more valuable for alliance.

when people say 9% do they mean 9 from their gear, in addition to the 5% from rogue talents, meaning your character should be walking around with 14% hit? or 5% from talents and only 4% from gear? there's way too much hit gear out there for us to only be needing to put on 4%?

is this for swords and dagger spec. or only Swords?

@Endermage1244

4 жыл бұрын

Legit don't matter as you have to take the partial directives for your current gear to see what is better.

All I was interested in is the logic behind 1% crit being equal to 23 AP. Is that something you could explain or link me to a source?

@DaSpiff

4 жыл бұрын

I hear ya - I think its roughly the AP necessary to increase your dps by 1%, which 1% crit would be worth (approx)

Why you do 23/2 if you need 29/2?

you could call it equivalent attack power or effective attack power

Here come all the rank ones to tell you you’re wrong lol great Vid

I dont know how to cankulate things. Calculating maybe?

Sounds like you're saying Canculate

*This video nice to get the basic gist of it, except for a few small exceptions.* *Firstly both Agility and Crit values are a little bit off, and they start to scale differently depending on what the other one is.* *Secondly Shadowcraft is not worth getting, because it doesn't scale well, the faster things dies, and its too unreliable.*

So basically for now, fresh 60, i'll stick with shadowcraft xD

How does STR factor into this equation?

@gurtner9

4 жыл бұрын

1 strength = 1 attack power. If you are buffed with Blessing of Kings 1 strength = 1.1 attack power.

Thanks Oto

so how do you canculate 2% extra hit proc, whats the score for Hand of Justice?

I am confused, sorry. 1hit=21ap 1hit=24ap 1hit=18ap 1crit=29ap 1crit=28ap 1crit=23ap So which one is right? How did you boil down the value of hit and crit into equivalent AP?

When you say you need 6% hit that is with 305 swordskill included? And its 8 or 9% with 300 skill?

@yvindh2410

4 жыл бұрын

Yes 6% hit as a human with swords, it would be 9% required if you're at 300 weaponskill

@cvanamburg7234

4 жыл бұрын

@@yvindh2410 also is that with hit talents included? Im human with swords and hit talents and weapon skill. So 310 weapon skill. Is that 6% needed?

@dremlok666

4 жыл бұрын

@@cvanamburg7234 you only need 1% hit on your gear with 310 skill for soft cap

@yvindh2410

4 жыл бұрын

@@cvanamburg7234 If you're running a normal raidspec with 2/2 weapon expertise yes, only 6% needed. But since you pick up 5% from Precision it's gonna leave you at 1% needed from gear to hit soft cap. Keep in mind that hit still has a value past the soft cap, but is quite diminished.

@cvanamburg7234

4 жыл бұрын

@@yvindh2410ty

I want to know about shadowcraft these days!!!

I dont remember having an inckle named BOB!

Just 23 x 0.72 simple as that

To simplify the calculation for "Power Score" you can multiply every point of Agility by .793 and then add it to the original Agi score to get the power score.. if we are saying that 29 Agi = 1% Crit = 23 AP. I think :)

this is just incorrect your weights arent entirely true and also have to take in account wether u play horde or alliance crit = double dmg on what ever crits so critting one extra time during a combat or making 1 regular hit not miss during combat have the same stat value in theory but because of procs especially on horde but also alliance side hit is better than crit for example i play horde so by hitting i can proc wf sword spec HoJ and poisons thats an awefull lot of procs most of which can proc eachother thats why hit is valued higher than crit

@eckenjunge

4 жыл бұрын

came to the comment section to say this. ty.

@IWillSexU

3 жыл бұрын

But he said in the video that he values crit over hit AFTER you already soft capped

@Sheriffen17

3 жыл бұрын

but he dont value procs like i stated... he goes for hit cap then crit and that was (back then 11 month ago) not correct for hordes with a lot of on hit procs... horde had swordspec wf and HoJ so thats why hit was still more valuable... when thats said its a video thats about a year old non of this matters now .. its naxx times and im back to retail so hey have fun in ur classic going for wrong stat weights :)

I don't math well but thx for the vid anyways👍

why ppl say cap is 6, othes say its 9 ..

At the math part, u can just multiply the crit chance to the relative points of power it provides 🙄🙄 0.72*23

"Canculate" lol jk, great video! Ty

@prophetmgs

4 жыл бұрын

Better than cantulate

Would be nice if this were an addon

5:02 bob's my uncle?

cadaverous not even being mentioned?

@ninpot2765

4 жыл бұрын

@Todd Sutt is the chest pre raid bis?

Holy shit this is way too much maths just gonna read my bis lmao

I'm probably going to go out on a limb and say that you might actually be wrong on this shadowcraft 6 piece. I'm not sure how you are gonna keep testing this without constant variables on raid.. It will be merely impossible.. I say this because I make the groups in my own raid and best case scenario is 1 hunter, 1 warrior and 1 feral per every 2 rogues (this happens 1/10 times).. In reality its usually 3 rogues and hunter/war to maximize dps for myself anyways :)... On top of that, you are still using thrash blade and mira's song sword? Once you have dal's I can imagine the raw stats on the previous comment(BIS GEAR with higher values) becomes king..making the entire 6 piece shadowcraft a moot point... swinging lower tier swords while gaining 6 piece boost might seem better now but once you can hit harder the extra energy for a skill damage not so much..

@ranciusclay7750

4 жыл бұрын

im a brut blade rogue, have double dal rends, and a bunch of raid gear. 6/8 shadowcraft, bloodfang hood, cadaverous armor is the best dps set up you can have atm. hitting 450 dps consistently on dungeon bosses unbuffed and no WF. you need to farm 6/8 shadow craft and test it yourself. all the theorycrafting is useless until you see it in game.

Why do you keep saying canculate?

I still have no idea what bob's your uncle refers to 😂

@jdc9703

4 жыл бұрын

His freaking uncle, bob, of course.

You could of taken the partial dirvertives of each and graph it out.

All this cankelating is hurting my head. Yeah SC is op with Mask and Truestrikes but you are at the mercy of the actual rng god's, looks better too as you can tell you are not a pre raid fury warrior.

Bob's your uncle!

Watching the video to find the cankulation, wtf am i doing with my life? Edited: Found it at 6:20

did u just say cankulate?

Canculations

No weap skill? I've heard its quite important for glancing blows, which are unavoidable.

i play rogue bezaliel on firemaw server. and this is not the good way to calculate gear. you say shadowcraft 6 set it better then just the pre bis items but you cant even hit more then 280 dps on rag :S i see rogues with greens hit harder. if you dont have any hit your crits wont work . you can have all the gear and crit in the world but if you dont hit a thing you dont do dmg. btw shadowcraft set is only good for sword spec. gl in bwl

@havocdemon89

4 жыл бұрын

great logs btw classic.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/shazzrah/ravenblade xD

This is misleading. It's 6% for special attacks, considering over 50% damage comes from white hits, getting higher hit is beneficial.

@davidaplin2732

4 жыл бұрын

Let's also not forget crit cap requires more hit so you can stack more crit...Or you are reducing you crit chance on your auto attacks.

@destro1989

4 жыл бұрын

@@davidaplin2732 Good point

CANKALATE? How do i Cankalate bro? Can we get a Cankalate stand-alone video beaking down teh Cankalations?