I climbed in the 60s and 70s. Practically everything done in rock climbing today, would have been controversial back then. We tried as much as possible to leave the rock as we found it. We did not even use chalk. Bolts were strictly forbidden amongst the group I climbed with. NO fixed routes. You cleaned everything off the route at the end of the climb. To be clear though, I love how the sport has become safer with proper gear and proper instruction.

@piercecooke9649

Жыл бұрын

I hate the notion of bolts on natural rock. I think the whole debate surrounding using this extra piece of kit (knee pads) to send harder in a communitee of people (sport climbers) that can only climb because they've wacked in a tonne of bolts in the rock is ridiculous. I've sport climbed on quarried rock (UK, where these areas are essentially useless, unpleasant holes in a mountain) but the whole idea of it is, in and of itself, unnatural, so i dont think they can complain about using something that little bit more unnatural. If the whole point is ascencion, why not take every advantage you can get, including shoes, bolts, ropes AND knee pads. "people just dont want to work hard for the grade" - the only climber truly engaging with that philosophy of body to rock with no gimmicks is Charles Albert. EVERYONE else by definition is using an unnatural advantage - Megos should put his knee pads on and shut up

@tomassedlacik7236

Жыл бұрын

It still exists and it's called trad climbing, sport climbing is something different.

@tomassedlacik7236

Жыл бұрын

​@@piercecooke9649 don't agree. Why not use hooks, etc.? Because it's a different climbing discipline. If something was climbed without kneepads and you take the advantage of kneepads to climb it, your ascent is simply less valuable. But it can be as valuable for you, if you're happy with it. As simple. It means that downgrading when using kneepads is bullshit. Megos, Ondra and other elite climbers share this opinion.

@piercecooke9649

Жыл бұрын

@@tomassedlacik7236 Yeah im a trad climber but thanks for the heads up... the discipline is either free climbing or aid. putting your knee pads on doesn't mean you're aiding the route. silly bugger

@testboga5991

Жыл бұрын

except maybe the hacking holes into the rock and hammering pitons in.

When people talk about the issue that modern equipment also makes climbing easier they only talk about the shoes, ropes and quickdraws, but I think trad equipment makes the argument even more absurd, modern cams are lighter, easier to place and have more range, so should people that are trying to repeat an old classic use only the original protection that was used on the FA? That's just not possible. We should embrace that old routes might become "easier" with new technologies and that's ok

Climb it with or without kneepads. Do what you like.

Alex’s opinion is not controversial it’s common sense, if you want to take the grade climb it is n roughly the same style it was originally climbed. Lots of problems in hueco or my home area (Leavenworth), are 1-2 grades easier with a kneebar pad. I say try and do it both ways, it’s more fun.

@decklundy

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, just think of them as a way to get more life out of one climb. And also there are some climbs that are borderline impossible without them so they also provide more climbs to do- a win all round!

@jamesowen4059

Жыл бұрын

It's all about where you draw the line though right? What if the original climber didn't use chalk? Does that mean I can't use chalk?

@bentoomey15

Жыл бұрын

So "No Kpote Only" should be done shoeless, too. Common sense.

@Fred-oz3tw

Жыл бұрын

i see. but why is it a big problem, if someone repeats a boulder with kneepad instead of without it like the original ascent? he falsely boosts his own ego. but let him do that. where is the "big problem" which alex describes??

@gaspardvidal1106

Жыл бұрын

The principe of climbing is past with the easiest way as possible so, if it is with kneepad it’s completely logical to use it

Obviously kneepads aren't intrinsically good or bad and this is all arbitrary, but a couple of questions always come to mind when I see someone climb something with a kneepad that was not climbed with one originally. First, it seems a shame to downgrade something because it is easier with new gear, particularly a classic, as it changes the history of climbing and makes comparing ascents less meaningful. Perhaps the solution used on classic font problems like C'était Demain is appropriate - 7C with toehook, 8A without. Could have a kneepad grade and a non-kneepad grade so those who don't use one get their kudos and all is transparent. Second, for those that do a climb with a kneepad but take the same grade it had without, or say the pad didn't make it easier, I always wonder - if that were true - why did they use the pad? I also wonder how they can say the pad didn't make the route it easier if they haven't climbed it both with and without... I mean I am sure these top climbers' educated guesses are pretty spot on, but it just seems a bit off to compare something you have done, with something others have done in the past but that you haven't done/couldn't do...

@serbangroza

Жыл бұрын

sometimes you can kneebar without the pad, but it's painfull due to the shape of the rock, I would say that if you checked the kneebar with and without a pad and there isn't a big difference then probably you could say that it doesn't change the grade, but I guess that happens only on pretty solid kneebars

@loldo56

Жыл бұрын

@@serbangroza good point, I guess I'm thinking more of the types of kneebar that you can only get with a pad

@jakob8741

Жыл бұрын

The problem is not that new. What about tradclimbing in the time before using friends. Would you always list every gear you used next to the grade? I know a 6a+ in Elbe Sandstone Mountains first made in 1904. Can you imagine the gear? He basically free soloed it in hemp shoes (its a very technical corner climbing!) just carrying a heavy rope and metal anchors. There is no modern grade to compare that.

@loldo56

Жыл бұрын

@@jakob8741 all good points and of course everything moves on and changes with time and trying to keep everything directly comparable is impossible. Plus there's something cool about trying to comprehend how the first ascencionists climbed these routes with the gear they did and laugh about how sandbagged old grades can be. We could also obviously draw the lines anywhere. It just seems like giving up on trying to do so means losing something that's valuable. The idea of either downgrading hubble or claiming 8c+/9a with a pad seems like we'd lose something. Even if the line we end up drawing is random, it seems like there's value in drawing it so that everyone that climbs a certain line is actually doing more or less the same thing (or at least transparent when they are not). As to where to draw the line... personally I find some changes make climbing objectively better (i.e. modern shoes, safe ropes, safer trad gear) while others just change it without necessarily improving it as an activity (e.g. kneepads with sticky rubber). Of course, others may draw the line such that kneepads are fine, while hooks or some other additions are not, it's still subjective in the end. Maybe I prefer not using modern kneepads for no reason other than that prior to the last few years gear hadn't changed all that much for quite some time, meaning we can enjoy comparing sharmas ascent of biographie directly with those still ascending it today (even if his shoes were a bit worse). If someone found a rest with a knee scum half way up and broke that link it would seem like a loss to me...

@tomassedlacik7236

Жыл бұрын

It shouldn't be downgraded if kneepad were not used originally. But why not to say, I think it's one grade easier but with kneepads. That sounds fair to me.

Given how regularly my knees have bruised since I started climbing, I'm surprised I don't see more folks wearing them for health safety. As far as repeating grades is concerned, I think transparency in what gear is used is good.

@tomassedlacik7236

Жыл бұрын

Fine to use it for health reasons. But you should just admit your ascent was easier, hence less valuable than without the kneepads. If anyone would repeat Ondra's Silence without kneepads, he would be a superhero. That's quite not possible.

8:50 I always try hard to send after I cut feet or make a mistake like that, because if I still end up sending I'll know that it wasn't really my limit. I made mistakes and still was able to do it. If I climbed perfectly I must be able to do something harder.

i wonder what kind of shoes Gullich wore doing his Aktion Direkt?

Interesting video, I understand the need to compete, but there should always be respect in the effort regardless of the tools used. In addition I think it's weird to question things like gloves or knee pads. Everybody is different. Just because height plays a major role in a person's style and ability to climb in different difficulty levels doesn't mean we don't respect both individuals for solving the route. For those who still want to question knee pads. Do you have bad knees? Have you ever had consistent knee pain? It's important to understand we all have our own struggles. Personally I would probably use knee pads. I have external pain on the sides of my knees that I have to cup them when using the abductor/abductor machine in order to avoid feeling like I'm drilling into them. Knocking the side of my knee on a hold in the middle of a climb will usually kill that leg for the rest of the route.

great video man! I heard Red River Gorge..... I'm going there soon, could you make a video talking about what to expect and check out?

@jacks7991

Жыл бұрын

@@thestruggleclimbingshow How professional you are! Thanks brother.

a very german take on knee pads

Love Alex! Great interview :)

It seems somewhat ironic that Alex states climbing grades are subjective but clearly pointing out there are some objective elements such as kneepads. Also, to be objective, not all kneebars are made the same. Some kneebars will benefit greatly from kneepads. Others, not as much.

Thank you for the content

@skip1860

Жыл бұрын

You mean videos dummy

changing the grade would probably make some sense, like if its a 7c without kneepads, it might be a 7b+ with them on. And also if the first ascent did it without, and then he tries it with kneepads on and also says its easier, it would make sense to downgrade? technically it would be like using sticky gloves to stick on a sloper portion of a route, ur adding foreign rubber to a spot where rubber doesnt go usually, if that makes sense lol. its tricky.

My friend told me that pros will stack books inside their knee pads to make it fit the space better. Does this add or subtract to the discussion?

I think it is a stupid arguement. Do you enjoy using kneepads, is the route more fun for you when you use them? Then use them. If not, don't. Grades really don't matter nearly as much as people think they do, they exist to point you in the direction of a climb. In reality, I very frequently disagree with grades of climbs, because not everyone has the same body and climbing style! So just climb what you find appropriate, let the grade help you find climbs of the right difficulty, but don't worry about whether you "sent the grade" or whatever bullshit. Just climb.

@21nGG

Жыл бұрын

what you’re referring to is fun casual climbing-Megos is talking about the hardest routes in the world. There are few people in the whole world that climb at his level and he’s just talking about those specific elite grades and the nuances of different body proportions and betas that might affect the grade difficulties

Definitely on point. Use them, but be honest. Same goes with crack gloves. Couldn’t do Devils Crack from Kurt Albert without gloves becomes my fist was to small. With glove it went down immediately. Things change with things like that. And we shouldn’t do it for the grade.

@artyparty_av

Жыл бұрын

Yeah! And rock shoes

@steinabenteuer

Жыл бұрын

@@artyparty_av definitely. Take some „easy“ climbs in the alps and consider it done with heavy boots. And than think of the „easy“ grade. Those guys had balls of steel.

Would a crack route be graded differently if you used bare hands vs tape or gloves?

@Ptitviaud1337

Жыл бұрын

Argument has been made when gloves came out, then since crack climbing is pretty niche and almost no one is an actual masochist, the vast majority started to use gloves on tough rock. If you're good enough, you can on some glacier granite or sandstone use bare hands and it doesn't make such a big difference on "not so hard jams", but at some point the friction gets you anyway and you put the glove on. It's just much more fun this way, and much more fun than spending 15min building tape gloves. But yeah, it's a bit the same with kneepads, you're right. The impact might be bigger from the "friction use", and it touches a much broader spectrum of the climbing community, maybe that's why it's more controversial.

I was trying a route called thieves in rifle in 1992 when a guy named Chris Knuth glued shoe rubber to his jeans , we all used the little knee bar … kinda like chimney climbing….anything goes …same as an off width. After he had a fat piece of rubber on his pants he went from sending 13 a to 13 C , rifle is knee bar friendly. He still could not boulder V6 but he was sponsored for the routes ? Knee pads to help bars are a tool for super steep routes , bouldering should just have a pad grade. Grade more like a golf handicap ? Take into count finder size, shoe size, reach …. I know my fat fingers never fit into the little filed out pockets on more difficult routes …. Crack hand pads ….. whoa …. Should cracks be re grades for hand size ? 5.12 b is easier for my wife than 5.10 is in Indian creek sand stone splitters . They used to buy the shoes big and smash the toes with your car so your feet would fit in the 13 a crack , Tricks are for kids 13 a. This technique was in rock and ice of the day …. In maple canyon every crux I bolted on the 13 a and harder routes has been climbed around. People can pad their grades but they still have to perform , all my climbing contemporary friends over the years can now only climb with knee bars …. They can’t go to Europe and climb Andy thing they need knee bar friendly routes or there ego will suffer. For my 40 birthday I was given 3 knee pads and 4 stick clips , as one gets older these tactics are a bit more acceptable

Yes. They should use the exact same moves even if they are 6 inches shorter. And they should breathe the same amount of time. Why would anyone climb to the top using the smartest process.

Following this way of thinking, shouldn't we use the same model of shoes as a person who made first ascent of the route?

@-h151-7

Жыл бұрын

Exactly right. Or the same rope since it's easier to lift a smaller diameter rope than a big one and so on and on. If a kneebar is possible in a route, do it if it helps. If it makes the climb that much easier, downgrade it. Where's the problem.

@iamglueable

Жыл бұрын

Same with beta. A different beta on a route could make things easier aswell. I think the grey area for me is when you have a personal fan carrier which cools you during the route .

@jaredasa626

Жыл бұрын

If you eat a more nutritious breakfast than the first ascensionist, that's aid Seriously tho, I think it's about optics. If you do a thing that is easier, but say you did the thing the other person did, it looks cringy. Being honest never looks bad

"Lots of people..." Pretty broad statement to make based on nothing but speculation.

Years ago it might be looked on as using aid..... I think what is thought to be the greatest level of accomplishment, make it known how you did the route seems most important. The purest style deserves the greatest recognition of accomplishment.

@tomassedlacik7236

Жыл бұрын

It's aid for old route or let's say an ascent of an old route with kneepads is less valuable but if a new route was done with kneepads, it's fine because the grade was established with them... However, if anyone repeats it without kneepads, then it's probably more valuable ascent.

@jameskesler1930

Жыл бұрын

@@tomassedlacik7236 Really not sure what the precise word is to describe an accent using less gear than another using more gear....style is the word that comes to mind as it was commonly used previously. The "value" of applying a particular style I suppose is in the eye of the beholder. Whatever style one decides to use, hopefully respect for the styles of earlier ages is not forgotten and maybe revered for the commitment at that time. Be well!

Sick one

All of the climbers around me, see grades as something personal. Some upgrade, some downgrade, depending on their body proportions and also sometimes strenghts and weaknesses. Same goes for kneepads. If somebody uses one to make a climb easier, than it was for a first ascentionist who climbed without pad, we are honest: State what equipment you used und include this in the personal grading.

@tomassedlacik7236

Жыл бұрын

That's why I don update nor downgrade. 😅 I'm also not on the level to care . It's that something feels harder and something easier and the average grade would be same as if I grade it on my personal opinion. That's it.

@paulkiefer8716

Жыл бұрын

@@tomassedlacik7236 Yes, that makes total sense. It also depends, if you give grades with the intention of other people seeing an noticing what you have done, or if you just grade as a personal climbing diary. For me it's a mix of both honestly. Plus: if nobody would upgrade or downgrade, big mistakes in grading by first ascentionists (which happens a lot, including routes of mine) would just stand. I am happy if somebody gives their opinion on the grade of a route of mine... 😉

What about shoes then? A lot of routes were FA'd with boots or terrible stuff. He mentioned it but he didn't justify why shoes wouldn't count in the same debacle.

Great channel, thank you for the content!

@skip1860

Жыл бұрын

Wait videos or content ?? LMFAO 😂 there effin videos

This is more nuanced than the interview suggests. I know someone who recently sent something (intentionally not saying who or what!) with knee pads that had previously not been sent with them, this person specifically trained their legs bloody hard for weeks so they were able to use the poor knee bars for rests, it was pretty far from ‘easier with knee pads’. Obviously though I recognise that often knee pads will make climbs easier (as do modern downturned shoes, modern rubber, lighter ropes, improved quick draws…etc…).

@schulme123

Жыл бұрын

Exactly, knee pads don't always make a climb a grade or grades easier. There should be some consideration to this.

@fitch9782

Жыл бұрын

Could have saved himself the time and effort if it wasn't even easier

@lucacycles8623

Жыл бұрын

@@fitch9782 essentially they developed a different beta that worked for them with specific training.

A lot of people in here confused what a climbing Kneepad does. They sit above your knee and protect your thigh skin. Not your knee actually. They help you jam you thigh into the wall with your toe pushing so you can take weight off your hands. They can be very high skill and add a new set of movement to climbing. It’s not just about resting but they can also add very cool upside down rest to climbs.

TLDR: Chalk is aid, grigri is aid, exoskeletal structure is aid. Use a fishing rod to belay and bare feet

think the discussion always has to return to the subjective nature of grades and value of context. as ticklists become more public, when trying to influence the consensus, have to add context. the new set has a soft climb? explain why. this boulder actually seemed harder than the higher graded neighbor? explain why. found a knee bar which barely goes without a pad? context...

This is the distraction I have been looking for. I was just asking myself “what can I worry about, that others may judge me for?” Lol. Another “do it my way, which is the right way.” Ok, bye bye.

Alex is a legend

4:20 Funny that you caption the clip of Bibliography as "9b". How many downgrades is this thing gonna have?

Knee pads are not assistance, you can do it without but It just hurts

Well, it should have two different grades, one with knee pad and one without it. It's like video game, you can play it on hard or easy mode.

@didiok7

Жыл бұрын

Someone should be able to increase a route grade by doing a tough version of it by skipping a move or no shoes, for example. We can be creative :)

The F.A. shoulda just used a kneepad if the kneebar is there.... its the same as the F.A not finding a key hold until other people have repeated it, or a hold breaking and revealing a bigger hold. I do not think it should be easier with a pad, I think people can claim whatever the route is as long as they start off the deck and finish at the anchors.

kneepads are aid

Adam Ondra your rebuttal sir..?

nothing else matters about how you do a climb but your own progression as YOU see it, but just be honest with others about it. Don't say you did a climb without knee pad when you used one. Don't go to the gym and repeat a problem you've already sent and say you flashed it. You also don't have to tell everyone that it wasn't a flash. It's best to just STFU and focus on yourself rather than on your image you put out to others.... there's so much potential for ego boosting bullshit in this sport if that's what you want to do, but it will only slow you down and distract you from what you know is the ultimate reward, which is the internal knowledge that you are personally progressing within yourself, for yourself, in your own time and for your own purposes. In time, people will notice that and then come to you to glean wisdom. STFU and aim for the cultivation and sharing of wisdom, not the cultivation and sharing of ego! With so many eyes on you at the bouldering wall it's a struggle to refocus on YOUR personal goals and your inner progression as a human rather than on "impressing others", but that challenge is what makes it fun.

Should the point of grades be to show how good you are?

@ogginger

Жыл бұрын

@@thestruggleclimbingshow I guess in the spirit of sport that grading to reference progress makes sense and in competition to reflect one's superiority- culture aside. I guess everyone has different reasons for climbing. Which at the end of the day is cool. Hypothetically the point is to have fun or enjoy the process. Personally I just want ascents and I don't really care about grade as much I just want to be on top and enjoy the view. I like your perspective on grading being a reflection of how much time and effort a climb will take. If I'm bouldering and I can get good footing and jugs all the way up, that's my first send, then afterwards it's just which sequences look cool. Most of the time when I boulder outside I don't even know the grade.

I'm always a bit surprised by the "controversy" of kneepads. To be honest, i use homemade kneepads that are made from an old canyoning suit, like 3 or 4mm thick ? The pain avoided by wearing those is huge, the friction is probably a bit better than skin or pants, but not much? But i always feel that the people saying that it's easier with kneepads are the one that cant really use the kneebars properly. On some routes i had to "train the rest" so to find the best position of the kneebar, or the best weight i could load onto it. We've all seen Ondra kneebaring on stuff that seems...well...simply not there. I'm clearly not as good as him and usually, i only find myself the most obvious kneebars. My guess is that it's just like heel-hooking. Yes, shoes have improved to do heel-hooks, that's for sure. But it's also more technical than "putting you heel onto something and pull", so using heelhooks is a valid technique to progress through problems. Kneebaring is the same. However, you can be honest while sending something. f you feel that you found a new way, easier, send it...but downgraded.

@slapthesloper

Жыл бұрын

Maybe yours only add friction but my purchased send kneepad literally has a hard rubber piece that not only gives friction,makes my leg longer, and removes pain but also let’s me kneebar easily against any tiny little edge or spike that would be certainly impossible with just my fleshy thigh.

@Ptitviaud1337

Жыл бұрын

@@slapthesloper Really ? I tried a send kneepad, but was it from lack of habit, was it too big for me, i didn't felt it was such a game changer for me. Or maybe i actually suck at kneebaring and can't really get as much from it as you? Dont get me wrong, of course on some moves, a kneebar, especially with the help of a kneepad, is game changer. My guess is that it's not so oftenly the case, and that those advocating for not using kneepads to either "respect the FA" or "preserve our sport" simply don't know to kneebar properly

@mind0killer

Жыл бұрын

@@Ptitviaud1337 The send pad does have a bit of a learning curve, especially for certain placements. It definitely makes certain climbs considerably easier. As for "climb in the style of the first ascensionist" this is bullshit sentiment when it comes to anything short of ethics concerns. If you are adding bolts or modifying the rock it's an issue, but if you are using modern shoes (whereas 1st ascent was done in tennis shoes), modern pro (using cams when FA was done on passive pro before cams exist; obvious exceptions being e.g. Czech sandstone where metal pro is not allowed), knee pad etc. it will always be easier for subsequent ascensionists due to improvements in tech, training & knowledge passed down from the previous generation. Best is to climb the in the style that suits the climber within the constraints of good ethics.

@Ptitviaud1337

Жыл бұрын

@@mind0killer Yep. Another guy commented that you can also try sending two styles, with and without, and see what's the most fun. We have a boulder in the region where the FA had been made using a big dyno, as a 7B+ Font. People later found a way to use two intermediate shitty crimps, and that might make it 7B font. 90% of the people still do it using the dyno as it's much more fun this way, so i guess we can be clever and good hearted if we really want to :)

If want the grade gotta do it the way it was graded...otherwise you are lying to yourself

So if the first ascent was done in EB's you should repeat it in EB's. Should there be a list of all gear used and you have to do it with that gear only? If you find a better rest the route should be down graded if that's the case. That s the ways it s always been.

@middle-agedclimber

Жыл бұрын

Try watching this short clip with comprehension, concentrate really hard, maybe you'll understand something.

@jimmyratzlaff5630

Жыл бұрын

@@middle-agedclimber lol

Did alex want to talk about that topic?

His argument about repeating the same way it was climbed initially is ridiculous. What if the first ascent was done with short pants? Should I wear short as well? Maybe longer pants will make the knee-bar easier. Gear and technology are progressing. There will come a time that having technological aids like bionic arms will be too much aid.

while we're on the topic of controversial opinions, I absolutely HATE when people get to a jug on the lip/top out of a boulder and then get one of their friends to throw a chalk bag up to them. I have no clue why this is an extremely common occurrence in even high level bouldering. Once you pull onto the boulder you should have absolutely zero outside interference until you are standing at the very top. Does anybody else share this opinion?

@Ptitviaud1337

Жыл бұрын

It doesn't make much a difference from wearing a chalkbag made for sportclimbing. The thing you may be missing is that you only see the send go but lots of tries are made, and sometime they simply "stick it", but not having a chalkbag around the waist during this particuliar send, so end up asking for chalk for the sketchy top out. I think it's fine. Yes, you could say that you should simply be careful and always have chalk around your waist, but it's sometimes a pain in the ass in bouldering : it topples while you sit during the sit start, or when you fall, losing a ton of chalk, etc. Honestly, i see your point, but i don't think it's so concerning. Puting fans on ladders, or having someone blowing your hands at a given time during the send, is much, much more concerning in my opinion.

@AMM1998

Жыл бұрын

@@Ptitviaud1337 if it doesn't make much of a difference, why not just wear one all the time then? I've climbed plenty of projects that required me to bring a chalkbag for the topout. I know exactly how much of an inconvenience it is to take a bunch of send burns and fall on your chalkbag. That's what's driving my thought process here. Projecting with a chalkbag on is one more thing you have to deal with in order to send. Avoiding this aspect of climbing entirely by having someone throw you a chalk bag is a way to skip this part of the process. You can do it if you want to but I think it's dirty and takes away from the send whenever I see it happen. Why are you against someone using a fan on you while climbing but not against someone physically passing you a chalk bag? At least with a fan, nothing is physically touching you(I'm also against people aiming fans at you whole climbing btw). I don't see why fans are more concerning than chalk. I feel that both of these are issues that need to be looked at and if you are concerned with one of them you should be concerned about the other as well. The basic principle we're trying to maintain is that your climbing performance should reliant on yourself and nobody else.

@Ptitviaud1337

Жыл бұрын

@@AMM1998 Hey ! I didn't think you hadn't arguments here ;) I think that on the principle, you're right, but that "in reality" it may not be such a concern. I believe that both positions are solid and defendable, that's all.

Ever break your knee cap? Its something you remember.

What is the opinion of the Climbing Police and the Ministry of climbing justice on this?😂😂😂

How does the interviewer Not know Ben Moon put up Hubble. This whole podcast is bunk.

Next year they will roll out nanorubber gloves with tendon assist... First time i appreciated Megos this much. Very mature approach.

Gatekeeping will always be controversial. You don't get to tell someone else how to feel. If someone climbed with a knee pad and thinks it's no problem then who is anyone to tell them they are wrong? Climb naked if purity is so darn important.

@rdtarcade7644

Жыл бұрын

if a route is done without pads but it is well estabilshed that pads make it far easier you dont get to say "actually for me it didnt feel easier ..." just like you you cant go up to a route and say: "actually for me this is this grade"

@piercecooke9649

Жыл бұрын

@@rdtarcade7644 But EVERYBODY gets a vote on the grade and over time grades always change (maybe something is climbed so much its polished and gets upgraded, maybe the introduction of better microcams makes something safer etc?) If someone invents something to make the climb easier, you're just an absolute sucker for not taking an advantage from it. (It's EXACTLY the same with shoe technology!?). If that tech makes the climb easier and it subsenquently gets downgraded, it's nobodies problem other than your own for not using that technology to do the climb in a more easy fashion. The only place for rules should be in climbing competitions. These pros and yourself think you get to make up some unelected, undemocrartic rules. Best beleive if i climb something with pads and its a breeze ima just downgrade it. No time for this gatekeeping nonsense...

I don't see anything controversial on his opinion. I think it's what all Elite climbers think. The Real names in the sport.

If the first ascent is without kneepads, and someone else chases the grade with kneepads, there should be a aid climbing downgrade.

Kneepads have to go, period. Oh? What about shoes? What about chalk? Semantics no these are real questions. It is Technology Creep Kneepads sure. it's sort of bionic. look at Ondra send Big. You can rest for days on those kneepads. Pure is pure Alex can not do Silent without kneepads let alone BIG

There's an answer. Downgrade it. As if the climbing world is new to new gear and different styles. Someone could just as easily kneebar those moves with no pads if they're willing to just bleed a little. What's wrong with using available gear to prevent injury?

@anttuuD

Жыл бұрын

What if it 20cm thick, is it then okey? or if it is really soft rubber so you have much better friction?

@connorpollard2009

Жыл бұрын

@@anttuuDthat’s completely fine, why don’t we all sack off climbing shoes and harnesses and ropes and just go back to climbing in walking boots? Because the sport is evolving and it should be embraced. Method is salty because his routes get down graded and he ain’t in the conversation

@Hailingfromcork

Жыл бұрын

20cm thick pad would make you worse at both grip and mobility so not sure I see the point, but sure, if that's the gear you need to climb your line go for it. After all we climb lines not grades right?

@ElGuapoDeSantoPoco

Жыл бұрын

@@Hailingfromcork kzread.info/dash/bejne/dIipw6hqcZazqdY.html

@piercecooke9649

Жыл бұрын

@@anttuuD Guess you'd call it aid at a certain point 🤣

bad take, there should be only one 'type' of shoe and all use the same rubber too, and no crack gloves or tape... screw it, only birthday suit climbs allowed to 'claim' the grade.

Basically the same can be said about pre-hung draws. If you climb a 5.13a with pre-hung draws and the first accent was done carrying and clipping gear, then you've just climbed a 5.12 graded route instead.

Isn't there that one boulderer, who doesn't use shoes and has FAs at about 8A. So no shoes on this boulders.

In other disciplines you have sub categories. So why not have differentiated leader boards? Like different grade scales for different styles, so nobody can complaint about the mixing of advantages into a single grade scale.

Clumbers are weirdos ❤

this should be the last tool because otherwise free climbing will become technical climbing

Pro climbers that dont like using pad, should look st their foot fingers. How deformed And unnatural they become with extrem shoes. Try to climb old rutes, with old shoes.

totally agree with him. If a route is set without knee pads, you shouldnt downgrade it, since you made it with the help of knee pads. if you are unable to scend a route without knee pads, which was set without knee pads, you should shut up.

Im not that experienced but from a non-climber: Are knee-pads not for preventing injury? You shouldn't have to destroy your bones or body for a climb. I understand making these less legitimate but I don't see how a kneepad could increase your ability so much. It just decreases pain. Unless the knee pad is waaay too solid

@patrickcuriston4255

Жыл бұрын

knee pads make knee bars significantly easier because it gives you a sticky rubber patch to kneebar off of

@Wobbyble

Жыл бұрын

knee pad vs no knee pad for some kneebars is like wearing climbing shoes vs sneakers, depending if they are friction dependent or not

@minifishy7162

Жыл бұрын

Yea... But a lot of at least older climbing is about pain it think, at least a little bit.

does not make any sense, like why is using a solution Fair if knee pads are not? LOL Knee pads are just like any other climbing gear, I love megos, but if he is against knee pads he should just go climb naked and barefoot. Next topic

@thestruggleclimbingshow

Жыл бұрын

I don't think he's against knee pads... I think he feels that using them should then be considered when taking a grade / down grading. Agree or not, I think it's a valid concept to be considered by the community. I'm going for my first 13a right now, and as I look at routes I do a gut check on using knee bars with pads if the FA didn't.

Must have an easy life if you are arguing over knee pads

Alex Megos weighs 57 kilos. By his own logic he's aid climbing... Why was this video even recommended to me...

Devils advocate here. (Ive not read every comment) Kneepads are AID. ITs sticky rubber, and its not the minimalistic approach the freeclimbing stand for. :) I think I will make a kneepad with little feet on it. It would make some of my crouching moves way easier. Im a tall climber and not very flexible. As it is now, I sometimes use my knee, and its very often a challenging. With a good designed knee pad I would feel booth more secure, and more flexible, with better footwork as follow.

I think it's a bit unreasonable to demand that climbers put in more effort. People climbing harder grades practically dedicate their life to the sport. Elitism is such a stale concept. Chill out dude, it's supposed to be fun.

@gardhillestad7389

Жыл бұрын

Grades should be for guiding people to climbs that they might enjoy and master.

Knee pad nazi! Just kidding I don't even climb. As a non climber to me the talk should be about helmets.

I would rather hear the opinion of someone who works a real person job and contributes to society.

It's not a safety thing tho, yea if training use it. If going for send don't.

Use the knee pad. Down grade as necessary.