Deutsche Bahn still using Windows 3.11 doesn't surprise me at all. Some main station here still used a Commodore 64 until just the mid 2010's to handle their displays that show arrival and departure times of trains.

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Well, Windows 3.11 is really an interesting case. It was available for purchase until november 2008! (through dedicated business channels) *"11/5/2008, 7:43 PM Microsoft operating systems almost never actually die, preferring instead to fade away into the mists of antiquity, but as of November 1, Windows for Workgroups 3.11 is finally, officially, totally dead at the age of 15 (though we can bump that backwards if you prefer to count from the original Windows 3.0). Long after it was supplanted on the desktop by the likes of NT 4.0 and/or Windows 95, Windows for Workgroups 3.11 lived on in the embedded market, powering various point-of-sale terminals, cash registers, and long-haul entertainment systems in certain Virgin and Quantas jets. All of this has come to an end, and Microsoft will no longer sell embedded licenses for the operating system. "*

Amazing! The fact you can still boot modern machines into 16bit (real?) mode is a testament to Intel's backward compatible dedication. It's the reason the x86 platform has been king-of-the-hill all these years. Imagine if Motorola had done the same? But its also about to lose that status to ARM.

@max_MXX

Ай бұрын

I absolutely love X86. I don't think will ever disappear from production. Even in 2040 I believe there will be brand a brand new X86 CPU on sale. Maybe not for the consumer market but if someone needs a Intel Gen 27 Core CPU I think will be available for purchase.

@valenrn8657

Ай бұрын

Intel tried to kill X86 with Itanium (IA-64). Second source AMD insurance works as advertised. Intel doesn't ship real mode VBIOS since Intel's 11 gen. Intel is attempting to kill real mode X86 with the X86S initiative.

@sjogosPT

Ай бұрын

Intel is trying to kill 16 bit and 32bit instructions. 😢 Search for it.

Looking forward to installing Windows 12 on a high speed data crystal in 2051 just to emulate a VIC-20 game.

On my way to deutsche Bahn with my 386 laptop

@t.s.8783

Ай бұрын

Isn't a Problem for Deutsche Bahn only. Worldwide run many old industrial systems with DOS or Windows 3. 🤷‍♂️

@roberto88958

Ай бұрын

​@@t.s.8783 Personally I prefer stability and to not change a proven software product just that some companies can make more money. I maintain some 90's industrial machines that are making polyester curtains. (everyday curtains we use at home) The patterns are loaded from floppy and Windows 95. No need for security patches, updates. The main program has a Windows 3 GUI with a nice layout and big buttons easy to use. Nothing is confusing. If you ask the guy who works everyday on that machine he wouldn't never change the software.

@bjornna7767

Ай бұрын

@@t.s.8783 These OSes may be more reliable than Win95 onwards. Still, DB is half-private, half-state-funded corp listed on stock exchange with exorbitant ticket prices as well as underwhelming customer service. I don't like DB, it privatizes gains and lets us jump in for their debts or rotten railway lines while folks working there are ripped off and CEOs bring millions back home each year.

Himem and masters of the universe... 😀

Great video. I got windows 2000 running on an eeepc been playing with.

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

I think it's time for some Windows 3.11 action, especially on an EEEPC. :)

Google was offering to change to "Deutsch" because we're on Windows 3.1 haha 🤣🤣😂😂

Great video and I think will be very interesting to use for all motherboards that have no IDE Controller Ports!!!

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

This driver should work with Windows 95/98/Millennium too - but these operating system usually can get along with AHCI and modern motherboards. The only time I had to use a PCI to SATA adapter to get Windows 98 running on modern hardware was on a H310 motherboard + motherboard a 9th Gen CPU. (Coffee Lake Refresh)

That so cool, I think I'm going to make a modification in my BIOS so it runs Win3.11 directly instead of the UEFI graphical shell as I have that exact motherboard.

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

It should work "as seen on youtube". :) This motherboard has some Intel® Ethernet Connection I219-LM chip not friendly with NDIS2 drivers. Although DOS drivers released by Intel should work with any Intel gigabit chip... it didn't work for me on this board. If you have some cheap Realtek PCI-E 1x gigabit card you can go online.

@roberto88958

Ай бұрын

What modification do you want to make? I think you have to enable CSM and that's how far modifications are going.

Consider getting a LS-120 drive - This thing is fun :D

Liked and subscribed, great video thank you

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Awesome, thank you!

Fascinating!

I love old operating systems but in some virtual machine. They are very cute in that way.

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

They are cute and harmless but when you run them on real hardware you get more - like a real sound card that has like its own playback uniqueness, a powerful GPU that renders the game the way it was meant to be played and so on... It doesn't hurt to setup a multi boot configuration with a mix of old an new hardware. This way you can have the both worlds: a very powerful Windows 10/11 machine and at the next reboot a relaxing Windows 98 SE with a 3dfx Voodoo and a Sound Blaster Live! or an Aureal Vortex sound card.

Now we only need USB support

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

We get some "nice" USB support from BIOS which will report our USB floppy as a regular floppy and can be used in DOS and Windows 3.1 without any issues. The mouse and keyboard will be reported as PS/2 devices. Also - depending on BIOS version - we can access FAT16 formatted flash drives. There are many 3rd party drivers made by the legendary dude... named *watlers_world*: he made generic USB sound drivers, HD audio drivers + many other drivers. turkeys4me.byethost4.com/index.htm

No Way!! This is Awesome!

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Thanks! 😃

time to undust the floppy collection

With this way, I can finally install older OS on my Skylake HP laptop

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Yes, you can! If you are planning to install Windows 98 watch this video on how to fix the crazy USB mouse behavior: kzread.info/dash/bejne/ineVrK-FXbCeYJs.html . You actually need the lmouse driver from Windows 3.11 to have a functional mouse in Windows 98.

For the Z270 motherboard, you did not use SATA port 0 on there, as the BIOS itself says it's plugged in to the 6th port (unless you tried a different port as well, or the BIOS just has a terrible way of showing port numbers) ( 7:12 )

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

I did use the SATA port 0, that's why I specifically mentioned in the video :) - because the footage shows SATA port 6. Afterwards, I plugged my VIA 6421A PCI to SATA adapter and everything was OK with Windows 3.11.

@dynamyc

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores ah, fair enough! I was confused cuz of the footage shown, but that makes perfect sense. Glad the PCI adapter worked at least, it really widens the compatible machines for these kinds of shenanigans 😌

Now. Imagine this right Who is Viruses for windows 3.11 Today.

@max_MXX

Ай бұрын

I'm trying to imagine but I don't understand your point of view. :-?

The main thing here I think is you need legacy modules in the EFI or 3.1 can’t boot.

I really enjoyed this video!!! What movie @ 01:30?😮

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

I'm glad you like it! That cut is from Starsky & Hutch (2004) >> www.imdb.com/title/tt0335438/

I have a fun question, can you make a sound blaster Live! Work over pcie>pci bridge?

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

SBLive! works perfectly fine using a PCI-E to PCI bridge! I will use a SB Live! in my next video for a dual boot setup Windows 98 / Windows 10 both running from NVMe. Specifically for Windows 3.1 the only card that works behind a PCI-E to PCI bridge is actually the first PCI sound card released by Ensoniq - PCI Audio 3000 (ES1370 chip) You can see it in action on my previous Windows 3.11 video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/oKWtqJiTnLeTgNo.htmlsi=0XvFThv6DlVqKl2f&t=399

Those captures didnt seem to have any resolution change delays, what are you using to capture the footage?

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

I'm using this hardware: www.epiphan.com/products/dvi2usb-3-0/ with it's own capture software. The footage is top quality but the software will stop recording when a resolution switch occurs. (and this happens many times)That's why sometimes I use OBS studio which will record continuously but the image is a little degraded no matter how much I tweak the settings.

Where can I listen to more of this great music you play in the video? :)

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

You can start here: soundcloud.com/c64er/popular-tracks (the most popular being the one in the video... :) )

@christopherhoevik

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores Thank you 😁 And thanks for a great video 😊

@NaoPb

Ай бұрын

Ah found it. But how to make it sound like in the video? The C64 version sounds different?

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

@@NaoPb You can search it on KZread there are several variants, if none is OK for you, give me a sign and I will upload it somewhere. The version I have was recorded by me using a .mid file.

@JuandiSanchez-tp5rf

8 күн бұрын

​@@O_moresyour version is absolutely the best. The other ones sound like a cheap copy of this one

Only part I'm confused on is ram. Is there a hard cap that 3.11 can access and/or do you have to limit what you install on the board? I know early Win98 had issues if you had more than 512mb (I think) of ram or it would crash.

@O_mores

18 күн бұрын

You don't have to do anything special about RAM because Windows 3.11 will ignore anything above 256MB and won't complain about too much RAM. Just make sure you use the included himem.sys.

Iirc "Enable 32-bit disk access" doesn't become available to check until you have "enable 32-bit file access" and rebooted after the change. But it's been a long time....

@O_mores

17 күн бұрын

Unfortunately, 32 bit access for Windows 3.1 was tuned for the smaller hard drives of the early 90's, which used specific controllers that covered about 90% of the market at that time. Microsoft KB Archive/83325: "WDCTRL, which is the 32-Bit Disk Access device that talks to standard Western Digital 1003 or ST506 hard disk controllers (about 90 percent of the installed base). WDCTRL is only installed if Setup detects a compatible hard disk controller."

WfW 3.11 came on 8 1.44MB 3.5" diskettes, or approx 12MB of data. Incidentally, a 14th gen i3 CPU has 12MB of L1 cache :D :D :D P.S. 30 years later, an autoexec.bat file without @echo off still annoys me enormously.

@BrunodeSouzaLino

Ай бұрын

You could run Windows 3.11 entirely from RAM...on 20 year old hardware. A modern CPU will likely copy the entire OS into L3 cache so it doesn't have to rely on RAM.

thanks for video do you have an idea for an driver like vbme to use vesa in high resulution on the most modern graphics card? it gives an svga fix for 256 colors. but i want to use 16 bit res . gives there an vesa driver for win31 that can handle this?

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

You're welcome. So far... there is no such driver. A Windows 3.x video driver is more complicated than a Windows 9X/NT because the driver must implement on it's own some drawing routines. On what hardware do you want to run Windows 3.1x?

@jirehla-ab1671

Ай бұрын

​@@O_moreswill this work for amd am4 platform?

@jirehla-ab1671

Ай бұрын

​@@O_moreswill any pcie sata adapter work?

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

@@jirehla-ab1671 I haven't tested this driver with AMD boards, it was specifically crafted taking in consideration AHCI firmware used in Intel motherboards. But I guess it might work with AMD motherboards as well. You have to take in consideration that some PCI-E to SATA adapters might not work with certain motherboards. But if the adapter works it should solve the Windows 3.11 problem to boot in enhanced mode.

@allesNorris

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores in first time with vbox in second time with an AMD ryzen 4500 and maybe an Asus Board with csm and PCI .. but If i have one PCI port i cant use Sound and graphics at Same time ? Maybe i try a found HD Driver for usb . for audio. but doesn't run on vm I foumd an Windows NT 3.1 / 3.51 vesa Driver . But Not for wfw 3.11

Do you have working sound? I guess that would be the final step.

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Yes, I do... On modern hardware you need a PCI Audio 3000 by Ensoniq. (ES1370) MIDI works also, this part was covered on previous Windows 3.11 video: kzread.info/dash/bejne/oKWtqJiTnLeTgNo.htmlsi=NWDpjqr0eGvuGwGd&t=400

what about boards that ditched legacy/CSM mode ansd lony boot with UEFI?

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

I wouldn't buy one of those boards. For me, CSM is not enough I'm looking for a board with PS/2 ports and PCI slots to get the full experience... As we speaking we can find top of the line motherboards with PS/2 ports and if those ports are present for sure it's CSM/UEFI board. Anyway there are industrial boards with even more PCI slots. I found an Asus socket 1700 ATX mobo with 3 PCI/E + 4 PCI @ 189$ which is not that bad, it has also 2.5Gbe...

Hey would you mind posting what the track at 11min is? The name is on the tip of my tongue but I can't figure it out : (

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Hey, this is it: soundcloud.com/c64er/the-alibi-by-laxity - The version played in this video is recorded by me using a MIDI file + a Creative AWE64 Gold sound card.

My experience was that Intel chips are more likely to get into DOS than AMD. Have you tried this on any AMD CPUs?

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

First Ryzen CPUs had some problems (VME bug), but later ones - like my Ryzen 9 3900X runs Windows 3.x/9x pretty well, with sound, LAN, and video drivers. However DOS is a little bit slower. Intel is better when you have to run an MS-DOS window in Windows 98. I will switch to Intel soon as my main PC. I will pick a socket 1700 motherboard with 4 classic PCI slots /3 PCI-E. Meanwhile, here is Windows 3.11 on Ryzen 3900X: kzread.info/dash/bejne/fnmW0NyJdMesYKg.html

@ZipplyZane

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores Cool. I have a Ryzen 5 3600, so I may play with this.

You want the Ontrack driver plus github patch, to do 32BDA on larger drives

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

I will take a look into this. I mess around with MicroHouse FastDisk driver a while ago but it didn't work.

@matthewday7565

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores Tony814/OntrackWMod for the patch, if you have trouble finding it

What is the music you used in this video?

@Alexander_Pisklov173

Ай бұрын

+

@victormancini3002

Ай бұрын

@@Alexander_Pisklov173 It's called "The Alibi" kzread.info/dash/bejne/gJ2Z0clmdNunnMo.html

lol, ce nebunie placuta! asta cu DB mi s-a parut geniala! n-a fost publicat anuntul pe 1 apr. nu?! :)) Omores, stii pe cineva care repara placi video ca si hobby? am un Radeon X1800GTO si X1950Pro pe care le vreau functionale :)

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

E pe bune anutul, de prin ianuarie A.C.. Nu stiu ce sa zic cu placile video. Mai trage un ochi pe anunturi, ai sanse bune sa gasesti un X1950PRO la acelasi pret cu cat ar ajunge reparatia. Ultima data mi-am luat un Quadro FX3500 cu 50 lei. E echivalent 7900GS si merge si in 98/ME.

@Constantin314

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores am gasit una, omores, tot 50 si eu. spune-mi pls ce drv pt 9x folosesti? pt 2k si xp? pe AGP cu FX5200 inca n-am gasit acel drv stabil. ms pt sfat, sper s-am noroc cu ea so sa fie ok :)

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

@@Constantin314 Gasesti in videoul anterior link pentru driverele nVidia necesare pentru Windows 98 + patch-ul de la R. Loew >> kzread.info/dash/bejne/dKmgqZhmYbu1lZM.html

@Constantin314

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores mersi!! abia astept s-ajunga PV acum :)

Salut! De unde ai reușit să procuri un modul IDE industrial? Vreau și eu! Am încercat acum câțiva ani să comand... și nu au vrut nici măcar să-mi ia banii.

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Salut, se puteau comanda de pe site-uri gen vexio, forit. Le avea un distrubuitor pe stoc si apareu peste tot cu optiunea "la comanda", acum nu prea am mai vazut. Sunt totusi niste SSD-uri IDE: www.vexio.ro/ssd-uri/transcend/66985-ts32gpsd330-pata-32gb-ssd-2-5-inch-mlc/

NO WONDER THESE TRAINS ARE ALWAYS LATE!!!

was it us Icbm missle ctrl used 8" floppys to run it

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

I think 8" floppies add another layer of security... :)

What is the song at the end of the video?

@O_mores

8 күн бұрын

"The Alibi" by Laxity -> soundcloud.com/c64er/the-alibi-by-laxity

Great✌

I remember a data record for employee still using a Pentium 3 and Windows 2000 Server as a database. Like really... And when the hiccups came, it's disaster.

Hi OMORES, I need help about XP x64 on Comet Lake laptop which is UEFI Class 3. Do you have Discord? Thanks from now!

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Hi! Sorry, I don't have Discord... I haven't install XP yet on UEFI, I know it's possible but it doesn't make any sense for me since I always install Windows 3.x/9.x + XP so I have to stick with BIOS/CSM. However I will make a video on how to install XP on UEFI.

@ages2001

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores so, how can I enable CSM? My original BIOS hides this setting. Modded BIOS allow that but when I set Legacy mode, PC bricks. I really wanted to boot XP on this PC. I even tried George King's XP2ESD but PC stays in black screen.

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

@@ages2001 How exactly legacy mode crashes? It happens only with XP 64? Maybe you should try XP SP3 first. XP SP3 can be installed from DOS.

@ages2001

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores no no, when I choose CSM in BIOS, PC bricks. It's not about Windows, it's about BIOS.

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

@@ages2001 And what exactly means modded BIOS? Did you use AMIBCP to enable hidden options, saved the file and flashed?

i have a p4 pc with sata ports

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

I think Windows 3.11 and 9x should work just fine. If not... feel free to ask me anything.

How absolutely silly. And I would totally install win3.1 on my ryzen

Unfortunately Deutsche Bahn is broken.

Only can install if you don't have UEFI

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Most motherboards will give the option to boot with UEFI or CSM is the classic "BIOS". You don't miss anything if you run Windows 10/11 in CSM mode and you can boot from another SSD/s all classic operating systems like 3.1, 98, XP... as well. I have Windows 11 running in CSM with a PCI-E 4.0 NVMe and I actually get 1-2% better transfer speeds than in UEFI mode.

@Hudee1985

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores Modernish GPUs, that have SAM or ReBAR need a system drive, that is GPT partitioned and of course have to boot in UEFI mode to be able to use these functions. AFAIK a GPT drive cannot boot in CSM mode. So if you have a somewhat current PC, you would need to convert the drive to MBR, which I guess would result in a Windows reinstallation and you would lost these GPU performance enhancing features. So the only reasonable solution is, (as you mentioned) to boot from another drive. And btw. a very cool project!

@adrianandrews2254

Ай бұрын

@@Hudee1985 You most definitely can boot CSM on a GPT formatted drive. I do it all the time to install historic OS (eg Windows 98) on 4TB drives. Every GPT disk has an MBR for backward compatability ! Its just not used. Simplest way I've found : Using a disk management program initialise a blank drive to GPT and then "Rebuild MBR" or equivalent. Then use the drive for a normal CSM install.

@Hudee1985

Ай бұрын

@@adrianandrews2254 Ah okay, thx! I knew it wrong it seems. Good to know!

Lol @ Title 🤣🤣

I'd rather use original hardware while I can

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Yes, Windows 3.11 is snappy on almost anything - but this whole "old OS on new hardware" thing started because I wanted a minimalist setup - a single computer on a clean desk, one keyboard, one mouse and the ability to boot using a mix of new and old hardware on any OS I want (primarily Windows 98). And I didn't have room for two computers.

@pinklightninggacha

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores I own several repairing vintage machines is a hobby of mine

Win 3.11? Nah... I might be interested if they find a way to run Windows XP on a surface tablet.

@max_MXX

Ай бұрын

Even if you could install XP on tablets there won't be any video drivers. So it's not as fun as on a real PC where you can use a 14th Gen CPU with 980Ti to run XP, and this make perfect sense for Crysis.

11:03 banana?

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

www.reddit.com/r/abandonware/comments/9ywvg8/why_is_the_default_mscdex_device_name_in_9x_boot/ >> Why is the default MSCDEX device name in 9x boot floppy "BANANA?" " You might not believe me, but I would like to go on record to say that I created those original ms-dos boot disks. Long story short: I named the CD-ROM drives BANANA so I could more easily see whether the CD-ROM drive was found and initialized successfully since the text would scroll by really quickly on first boot. Short story long: Back in the late 90's I built computers as a side hustle. I was also one of the early "case modders" - you can google my user name. Back then you needed to boot up with a floppy to access the CDROM drive from where you could begin a Windows95/98 install. I think the default CD-ROM name was something like MSCD0001 or something, but text like that was easy to miss as the boot text was scrolling up the screen. I figured no system text would use the word BANANA and it had a kind of letter pattern that was easy to spot even as text was scrolling by really quickly. I put BANANA references in both autoexec.bat and config.sys -- Those were the days when if you had 1 CD-ROM drive and also had the budget, you might have had another CD-Burner drive (buffer underruns, I don't miss those!) -- so you can see I had a few extra CD-ROM references just rem'd out in config.sys for easy enabling as needed. So how did the disk end up on the internet and part of some obscure history? At one point I used WinImage to backup my boot floppy and then I DCC shared it with some folks on IRC ... #winbeta! #oldmemphis! (I think only a handful of people in the world will know those channel names at this point) I assume after sharing with others, it got out into the wild! And now BANANA is for-e-ver. Anyway, I hope this qualifies as a cool-story-bro moment for me. :) Thanks for reading."

Great..so now you can post in the Win3x forums that you have a 4ghz cpu with 8gb memory and people will think that you're on steroids..LOL

Really?

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Totally! :)

BOO! You didn't install a printer driver! TrueType fonts won't work, won't even be available in the GUI if you don't install a printer driver. Doesn't matter if there's a physical printer or not, Windows doesn't care about that. But the ability to even decode and use TrueType fonts is embedded in the printer driver. The Epson FX 80 printer driver is the smallest, most generic driver that's capable of using TrueType fonts. Kinda completely ruins MS Office and Works without TrueType fonts...

@O_mores

Ай бұрын

Boo 2 u 2! There is an Epson printer driver installed. Because Windows 3.1 can see also my network printer. Didn't mention on the video, but you can see here how Windows NT 3.51 can access and successfully print raster graphics on my Epson Eco Tank L110 printer, trough my wireless print server using an older Epson Stylus ESC/P 2 driver: kzread.info/dash/bejne/o32Wx7hqcrzff9I.html

@southernflatland

Ай бұрын

@@O_mores Cool cool 👍 I gather that you were just kinda speed running through the setup process for sake of the video then. Still it's a helpful thing to explain, as a lot of people don't know that about Windows 3.1 and TrueType fonts. I've actually found your video otherwise very educational and useful, as I've been working on and maintaining a custom build of Windows 3.11 with Calmira XP, complete with all the actual XP icons, buttons, color scheme, sound effects, wallpapers, startup and shutdown screens, etc. Would be neat as hell to get that running on real hardware one of these days... 👍👍👍