I hate when too much ear gets into my combustion chamber.

@hpa101

4 жыл бұрын

There are easier ways to listen for knock indeed - Taz

@volvo245

4 жыл бұрын

I air ya.

@Mitutumuch

Жыл бұрын

"Cor Blimey Mate what are you doing in me pockets?"

@TempleOfNoMasters

8 ай бұрын

Get him talking about his deck

@rhubarbpie2027

8 ай бұрын

@@TempleOfNoMasters nice clean and well groomed deck

This has got to be one of the first times I didn't understand the content. I need to watch this again!

@JlerchTampa

4 жыл бұрын

You know those DIY 'Jet Engines' that can be fabricated from an old Turbo? This is pretty much the same idea using new parts and modern technology. The compressed air from the turbo either goes into the intake manifold like normal or bypasses the piston engine intake and goes directly into the exhaust manifold along with some extra fuel and ignited to produce drive pressure to keep the turbo shaft speed constant. At some point it will be easier to just shoe horn an optimized axial flow jet engine under the hood and use the 90+ psi bleed air from it to force feed the piston engine and turn the tires..

@LunarStrike

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah fr too much ear in the combustion chamber might not be good

I've never been in a turbo car that had maximum boost anything less than 2 seconds after WOT. Putting your foot down and having instant boost must feel amazing

So what you're doing is turning the exhaust and turbo into a jet engine. LOL awesome.

@Cj-gd1db

4 жыл бұрын

Slow Learner that’s what I got outta this

@xalr6128

3 жыл бұрын

Cj 327 what? That’s essentially what jet engine does lmao

@MikeBender1972

2 жыл бұрын

@@xalr6128 his name is slow learner 🤣 I thought he was calling him that too

Some similar principles to secondary air injection systems or what a lot of people call 'smog pumps'. Great video as always!

@skylinefever

4 жыл бұрын

That was the first thing I thought of. They reminded me of headers that keep smog engines legal.

@joshuafarwell9761

2 ай бұрын

Why not keep secondary air injection on our turbo cars and instead of tune it out, tune it IN to spool up the turbo during tip in or during launch control 😂 How hard would it be to use a little manifold vacuum operated diverter valve to recirculate boost to pre-compressor to allow the compressor to freewheel while at low throttle angles surely that would help a bit

Good info. Saw you at Titan motorsports at TX2K I think it was last year or 2018 before you were doing an interview, gave you a thumbs up and continued, didnt want to interrupt. I then saw you at PRI in December talking to some people. PRI was awesome. Crazy to think how in this industry you never know who you will come across. Love the videos, keep on it.

hp academy is pulling back the curtains on all the juicy racing secrets, many thanks.

It's good, out-of-the-box thinking.

@Supra_Johnny

4 жыл бұрын

Old methods development by Audi and pioneered by Toyota in the 80s&90s

As always, great informative content from the HPA team.

@hpa101

4 жыл бұрын

Cheers Jono, appreciate the kind words - Taz.

Video Request: can you do a video about WRC Subaru Rocket Anti Lag. and the WRC Focus Hidden Boost Tank. both are innovative and unique ways of using anti-lag to its maximum. really hope you make a video about this. i kindof understand what’s happening, but a full explanation from someone more knowledgeable will help the internet learn about this minimally discussed topic. Thanks!

Excellent video my man!! 👍👍🏁

Andre’, can you do a video on the rocket style anti lag systems that were used in the WRC?

@exvils

4 жыл бұрын

its same system as in video, 3sgte celicas same as evos had it on factory homologation cars

@HHCHunterYTC

4 жыл бұрын

@@exvils Nope - Evo's, well CT9A have the ALS present in this video. Rocket style systems are different.

@maxtorque2277

4 жыл бұрын

@@HHCHunterYTC Major difference with the WRC style external combustor systems is that they control turbo speed directly! ie the antilag is closed loop controlled to maintain the target turbocharger shaft speed! Because they burn realtively cleanly in the combustor (a normal axial can type burner) the engine can also be operated across a wider range of positive torques, meaning the overall driveability is much better, and the blending between positive and negative flywheel torque is much smoother and more consistent

@HHCHunterYTC

4 жыл бұрын

@@maxtorque2277 You're right, I should have clarified my comment, the Homologation System =/= the WRC System. From MHI / Rally Art documentation / Self Study OEM factory Homologation "Secondary Air System" present on factory delivered cars *should* operate when the following conditions are met: 1. WOT for more than 3 seconds 2. RPM 3. Throttle is let off. Even then as a homologation part, it's just there, it's not actually in use on the factory delivered cars. (Talking about certain delivered Evo 7/8/9's here) I've checked my JDM 8's ROM & the SAS/EGR valve doesn't even move when these conditions are met. You can enable it however by flashing your factory ECU through the use of the Rally-Art / WRC Firmware's. Even then... The SAS (ALS) system wasn't even put on all the factory cars, my JDM 8 has it, where a lot of the USDM cars don't have it. Where as the WRC systems, aggressively targets the Turbo's peak efficiency range, by targeting it's corresponding Shaft Speed, and it does this all the time throughout a stage, generally speaking. This generally causes damage to the Turbine Wheel, Exhaust Housing, and even exhaust manifold due to the heat generated from doing so. But when you have WRC money baby! You can apparently afford to replace turbo's all the time.

@1loumellor51

2 жыл бұрын

@@HHCHunterYTC this still isn't the same as the 'rocket' style external combuster antilag system.

Presented soooo well! Loved it.

@hpa101

4 жыл бұрын

Cheers Mike! Glad you enjoyed it =) - Taz.

I love this channel!!

That's awesome. I've always wondered what they use to achieve that. More on race engine secretes

Hi Andre! Love the videos. Been following since HPA first started up. Even taken part in webinars and some online courses. Love your work. However may I ask you do some videos of other hardwares on performance or race cars ie, brake calipers and shock and spring set ups. Not so much just on what they do. Thats fairly simple but more on technical advances in brands and misconceptions between brands and so on? For example I can’t decide on brake calipers mainly as there as myths and contradictions over what’s worth buying and what is or isn’t good. Or what is overkill and why. I think it could help a lot of people hearing unbiased info about things like this. Thanks heaps.

In WRC they change turbocharger after each race as a consumable for this reason, can not be applied in street

Can’t wait to watch this :)

Guess that means you need a hell of an exhaust manifold combustion occurring outside the chamber that’s bananas

Similar to the audi quattro umluft system used in group B. However with modern control tech its much much easier to do such systems today then back in the 80s

@tomjones5860

4 жыл бұрын

Toyota Celica (and other JDMs) had the system from factory back in late 80s & early 90s. They were disabled in the ecu. Just required a chip to activate.

Wonder if you could achieve the same result with closing a few cylinder injector and using them as fresh air pumps

I saw something similar to that antilag system in a pikes peak Alfa Romeo Q4 (Lancia Delta engine)

How does this work on the exhaust stroke? Is the air also pushed back into the engine or is the flow to the turbo enough to breathe the combustion chamber?

Guy in the back itched his butt like right when the video started

Can you do a video on rocket antilag where a preturbo combustion chamber creates the flame front

Ahhhh the days of group B

Please please please Don't stop making videos!!!!

@hpa101

4 жыл бұрын

Cheers Brad! We won't =D - Taz.

It's true that the downside of conventional anti lag, with a throttle kick, that the car would keep pushing when breaking, but on the other hand, with a throttle kick, the response is much better coming out of a corner. Some racers would set a throttle kick even without anti lag activated to get that extra response. It seems that a fresh air anti lag would eliminate the throttle kick along with its benefit!

Hey Andre, do you know if there's an advantage to using an external source of compressed air to spool up the turbo when not on the throttle? Like koenigsegg is doing with the Jesko, they've said that use of a compressed air tank has aided in eliminating turbo lag that comes with the big turbos they use.

@fache69

4 жыл бұрын

Volvo also have a compressed air solution for limiting turbo lag. The biggest draw back is the finite amount of compressed air the tank can hold. So for racing it would need a huge tank and compressor to keep up the demands making it impractical. However for a road going vehicle like the volvo there are benefits.

Didn’t Toyota (and other manufactures) install fresh air anti-lag system from the factory on Celica back in the late 80s and early 90s. Haha.

@JackBlack-vf2zn

4 жыл бұрын

Yup, my evo has it from factory..

@107gunner

4 жыл бұрын

Yes

@ben-7403

4 жыл бұрын

a leaky exhaust manifold gasket works well too

The air bypass valve can cycle fast enough to keep those exhaust combustion pressures contained in the exhaust manifold?

@stewartdodds1016

4 жыл бұрын

The valve is controlled exactly the same as the wastegate so uses a boost solenoid and is controlled by a PWM signal from the ecu so it’s very responsive. When I worked in Rallycross you would find the odd time that there was exhaust gas build up in the boost pipes/intake manifold but this was down to a faulty valve or solenoid not holding the valve completely shut.

Air: we hear "ear"

👌

cool

It this form of anti-lag bad for the turbine? I've seen people mention this in one of your other videos

@CP110

4 жыл бұрын

all forms of anti-lag will cause wear on the turbo. just something that has to be accounted for in the maintenance of a race vehicle.

@michaelgunning347

4 жыл бұрын

Chris Fokjohn depending on how aggressive you want it , seen rally cars do 3 yrs or 3 weekends with a turbo all depending on driver requests

SO if I use stock VW 1.8T recirculating blow off valve and route air into BMW M54 EGR line (after exhaust valves, before exhaust manifold) I get rally antilag? Am I right?

@jase666ify

4 жыл бұрын

No

@snikwad003

4 жыл бұрын

Do it, but use a metal bov

We need more ear !!!

@hpa101

4 жыл бұрын

#alloftheear

using this system you go to throw air directly into the exhaust, then the ecu must manage the fuel. but it must be remembered that once air is let into the exhaust manifold, the AFR will be leaner even if the engine is running with a correct AFR. how do you deal with this kind of problem? because if you analyze that the combustion and therefore the air \fuel ratio in the combustion chamber is correct, the lambda takes into account the exhaust gases in the downpipe, not knowing that there is a connected Als which bypasses the air in the exhaust manifold ducts, consequently yes it will have a leaner afr, and you cannot inject more fuel, because this air does not participate in the combustion...

When fresh air antilag valve in action so its need fuel and little combustion wich is provide by the combustion chamber so how its possible because throtle valve is completely closed only fuel is given to exhaust manifold by direct injection in combustion chamber so how its get combustion without compressing air fuel mixter in combustion chamber..???

@lutherblissett9070

3 жыл бұрын

If you tune it rich enough or tune in a misfire you get unburned fuel in the exhaust manifold

If I wanted to do this on an ls or any v engine for that matter, would I need two of these valves or would 1 coming out of 1 manifold work fine

@cartermackenzie1135

Жыл бұрын

This is also for a single turbo application

Nothing new really. Audi was doing this in the Early 80's in their group B car.

@Photosynthesisbeing

4 жыл бұрын

Is that why the beast got banned? They had the best group B hands down.

@FastPaull

4 жыл бұрын

@@Photosynthesisbeing Group b as a whole The car itself was never banned.

@alexstromberg7696

4 жыл бұрын

@@Photosynthesisbeing not really, they were just the first with awd

@MartlRS

4 жыл бұрын

The Lancia and Peugeot where far more advanced then the „oldschool“ Audis

@FastPaull

4 жыл бұрын

@@MartlRS Is that why Lancia had to cheat to win a championship? Lol.

neat

Why can't you use another wastegate part of the down pipe to then feed exshaust gases into the manifold??!!

this would mean that the backpressure of the manifold is less than the ambient of the air pressure ? otherways you would have just made a free air venting wastegate. :/ . did some research (thanks google) the "fresh air" means that its connected to the charge piping, meaning that it actually gets the pressurized air in.

Is this for gas engines? It's pretty much exactly how diesel anti lag works.

The exhaust becomes a jet engine

What's the source for the pressurized fresh air? Back pressure is generally higher then boost pressure so you can't simply pass intake air into the exhaust.

@Mac_F87

4 жыл бұрын

snek I think it was mentioned in the video. It is fed from the compressor side of the turbo. I would imagine because during the anti lag phase there is no massive back pressure being created as the turbo is not really compressing charge air, it is essentially opened ended through the exhaust system. So it’s sort of, a self feeding loop I guess.

@stewartdodds1016

4 жыл бұрын

The valve is controlled exactly the same as the wastegate so uses a boost solenoid and is controlled by a PWM signal from the ecu so it’s very responsive. When I worked in Rallycross you would find the odd time that there was exhaust gas build up in the boost pipes/intake manifold but this was down to a faulty valve or solenoid not holding the valve completely shut.

why is the air source connected so close to the cylinder head? wouldn't it be easier to have just a single connection just before the turbo? I wonder if it's to do with minimising interruption to the gas flow when the engine is under load?

@240rsmaxi8

4 жыл бұрын

this is so it can achieve a full burn before getting to the turbo. Most WRC cylinder heads incorporate the ports into the head casting, before it leaves the exhaust port.

@exvils

4 жыл бұрын

you dont want to burn your turbine blades :D also any big changes in pressure

@cuthberter

4 жыл бұрын

240rsmaxi ahh. Maybe i misunderstand-I thought they were just injecting pressurised air. It’s fuel too is it?

@240rsmaxi8

4 жыл бұрын

So there is still air bypass through the engine to carry fuel through to the fresh air injected into the exhaust

Can you answer a question for me how reliable is a freevalve head and and life spand ?

@hpa101

4 жыл бұрын

No one is running FreeValve heads as the technology isn't available. It has been talked about a lot, but you still actually cannot just go and buy a FreeValve engine - Taz.

So basically you’re keeping the turbo spooled by turning it into a small turbine engine.

@Dollsofgod

4 жыл бұрын

Sounds like it, I wonder what kind of stress that induces into the manifold through temps?

@Cj-gd1db

4 жыл бұрын

Riley Lammert I’ve seen the whole exhaust and turbo glowing red from this before

Capriced aerr 😆

If I'm correct in some rally cars they use turbo spinners (combustion is happening in the exhaust manifold before the turbo) where Idel is starting at 4,000 rpms

@miralemnermina142

4 жыл бұрын

no, no rally car idls at 4000rpm

@exvils

4 жыл бұрын

only cars that idled at 4k rpm were 4age formula atlantic racecars, cuz how big their cams were rally cars had small cams+turbos, intlet restrictors and idled below 1rpm with 2bar of boost in intake :D

@alexstromberg7696

4 жыл бұрын

@@exvils F1 cars idle at like 6k

Showing an example with no plumbing from the compressor side going to the anti lag valve might confuse people. I want to implement this as long as my mani is .250 wall. Sounds like this will work well, but might be a race only option...this method (like most anti lag) will likely burn thin wall tubular mani’s pretty quickly

@240rsmaxi8

4 жыл бұрын

The manifold there is most likely .035 or .049 wall thickness, just good material with the turbo braced to the engine.

@Russell_and_Rosko

4 жыл бұрын

There’s speculation there. Always brace your turbo regardless of wall thickness/boost levels/or weight of the unit. Happy new year car people

@240rsmaxi8

4 жыл бұрын

@@Russell_and_Rosko it is speculation on the specific wall thickness but the manifold there is 321 stainless so would be 1.5mm or under, inconel would be thinner.

@Russell_and_Rosko

4 жыл бұрын

Is this a wall thickness competition?

@240rsmaxi8

4 жыл бұрын

@@Russell_and_Rosko lol, yes! No, I just think .250 is a bit extreme.

Ya'll see the guy in the background fact checking? 😅

I call it launch control. Is that correct term? For off the line?

@_Epictetus_

4 жыл бұрын

Launch control is rpm holding (more advanced systems can also control traction) . Anti Lag is prespooling the turbo

@fokjohnpainkiller

4 жыл бұрын

Not even close to being correct in any interpretation of anti-lag or launch control I believe

@John.partridge

4 жыл бұрын

Pretty embarrassing question from an account titled Turbo World. Two totally different things entirely. Launch control is simply the ECU holding rpm or applying traction control limits to reduce wheel spin on launch. Anti lag, as explained here is a system developed for WRC & WRX to remove turbo lag entirely by causing combustion in the exhaust manifold creating gases which in turn keeps the turbo spinning even when throttle isn’t applied.

I heard ear not air first 😅

0:18

Look up Audi's 'UMLUFT' system

@hpa101

3 жыл бұрын

Check the comments, pretty sure this has already been discussed here some time ago :) - Taz.

@loagzowens6472

3 жыл бұрын

@@hpa101 yeh, thought it would have been, unfortunately my drive is being in the workshop than reading a comment log, In saying this however have you considered revisiting/investigation into another old turbo tech of pre compressor throttling to aid response? Another YT'r Stavtech mentioned it and I remember way back in the 80's having to try and discover why they had multiple throttle bodies in series.

@brandonhoarau1790

2 ай бұрын

@@hpa101 ok anti lag valve there is the vacuum one en the electric one my question is how you going to pu on icu if it’s use vacuum line

All talk lol show us it in action I wanna see this in operation

@240rsmaxi8

4 жыл бұрын

just watch any WRC video, almost every car has been using it since 98.

@sexyfacenation

4 жыл бұрын

Can't understand the words? Need moving pictures to keep your attention?

@bigbothoee8617

4 жыл бұрын

@@sexyfacenation do you by any chance own an I phone

@bigbothoee8617

4 жыл бұрын

@@240rsmaxi8 you sure it was setup like this ? As I've only ever seen from exhaust to inlet Mani (Evo sas system) Not from compressor to exhaust Not really looked into it

@Danger_mouse

4 жыл бұрын

@@bigbothoee8617 All the current 1.6lt WRC cars have a completely different sound to the older Group A based 2.0lt WRC cars from old. I suspect they all use this system as there is little to no backfiring and instant throttle response.

Fresh Air.....??? Inject Nitrous Oxide and the NitroMethane direct thru the exhaust outlet to spool it violently will idling....then wot at launch while holding your NOS button.

A camless turbo motor would be perfect full control of inlet and exhaust valve operation this freevalve technology would make camshafts obsolete tuning all done by the computer no more rockers or timing chain or belt 👍 hello anilag plus no need for direct injection with valves building up carbon deposits and a low pressure fuel system like the 90s again 🙄

Nowadays they would just use an electric motor to optionally spin up the turbo, like F1 does

Old news.. free valve technology is where it’s at and should be pushed across the board for the combustion engine to exist and maintain relevance in the near future👌

In my mind, this would just become an EGR valve once it opens. Exhaust would flow to the intake from pressure differences. Would work if you did a nitrous injection though. Inject nitrous and fuel, build a ton of boost. Lol.

Just supercharge it

Want antilag? Go electric...

ev cars don't have that's complicated system to survive. ☢️

@hpa101

3 жыл бұрын

Yes they have different issues to overcome, namely temperature related - Taz.