Thank you Dr Stock. I'm a fellow academic speaking up in Australia. It gets lonely. The silence is frustrating and damaging. As academics it is our job to challenge and debate social/cultural/political issues.

So much admiration for this woman's bravery in speaking out against a backdrop of angry, aggressive and threatening voices. We will fight on together. Thank you Dr. Stock.

@iristhornton7904

3 жыл бұрын

Hahahahaha Hayton and Stock hahahahah... Arseholes.

@josbradder2905

2 жыл бұрын

Same here!

@fredakharlo9062

11 ай бұрын

We will STAND together for female human rights. Stand up, get up, speak for wimmin,s rights.

Kathleen is admirable. What should happen is that every academic, at the University of Sussex, should be standing next to her instead of cowering in the corner. There is strength in numbers.

I think so much of the hostility from trans activists would be diffused if they listened to what she was saying, instead of responding to what they imagine she might be saying.

@sondraarrache1908

4 жыл бұрын

The ones that are pushing the agenda seem to have personality disorders, which makes it difficult for them to hear other viewpoints.

@SikanderG

3 жыл бұрын

I've listened multiple times and still think she's a TERF. Nice propaganda though.

@germalina9879

3 жыл бұрын

@@SikanderG when you say Terf, do you mean that you think she is radical and if so, which part is radical? And "trans-exclusionary" - where does she want to exclude trans people from, and if she does, is it all trans people from all spaces, or just some situations? If it's just some situations do you think there's any justification, ever, for this?

@SikanderG

3 жыл бұрын

@@germalina9879 It means she's transphobic and pretends it's feminism.

@germalina9879

3 жыл бұрын

@@SikanderG I know that's what you are saying, but it doesn't make it true, just because you say it. I was asking you to back up what you said.

Kathleen Stock is a very brave woman and if you're going to listen to anything about the trans debate listen to her

@iristhornton7904

3 жыл бұрын

So many better women long before, then, and now.

I was today introduced to WP by a hostile comment from a FB friend. Very glad I came to check you out for myself. Fair, balanced, rational and I am a more educated person (male) for watching some of the videos and reading the website. Thank you all for your impressive bravery, clarity and rigour.

The struggles in academia to gain a voice in the matter are really, really important - thank you very much for being there & speaking up

I’m at herts uni and they’re trying to stop Kathleen speaking which is shameful

The conflict of women's rights/feminism vs modern trans activism has... apparently.. changed so many women's political views this last year, including my own...but also not really. Another feminist mentioned something a few days ago that stuck with me: "we didn't leave the left. The left left us". How true is that. None of our views have changed. How we feel about the rights of women, girls, LGB people, trans rights, people of color, none of it has changed. But a huge portion of the left has changed how they feel about women and LGB people. Or perhaps they have always felt this way, and we're only just now seeing it, at the moment girls and women need them in our corner most. Now, "woman" is just a "feeling". An "identity". A "social location". A "gender". Apparently, women aren't *"PEOPLE"*. Yesterday I asked a trans activist what word can we use then, to refer specifically and exclusively to Human Beings Of The Female Sex Class....since y'know, those people exist. What term are we permitted to use for "Adult Female Human Beings" and "Female Children"? Because whether these people want to admit it or not, Female Human Beings *are* a distinct class of people, we do exist, with our own unique anatomy, experiences, needs, and before the last few years...our own rights. There's absolutely no brushing past the fact that we need a term that encapsulates and defines solely and exclusively female human beings, and that word is "women" and for female children, "girls". This is necessary for us to be able to organize and understand and communicate, and it's absolutely fundamental to our sex-based rights. Yes, those pesky hard-won sex-based rights that our foremothers fought, bled, and died for. Literally. That pesky little issue for gender cultists. The response I got was that we should call women and girls simply "females". That's it. "Females". We've been demoted. Sure, it's not as bad as "uterus bearers", "cervix-havers", "black birthing bodies" and a few other disgusting, dehumanizing terms (although of course we don't see men or trans women being reduced to ejaculators, testes-bearers, or penis-havers.....funny, that). But 1. Trans women are calling themselves simply "women". So actual women have been shoved out of our own category for the sake of a few men fitting there, while women become just "females" or "cervix havers" or "AFABs". And 2. "Female" is not specific to the human species. It's an adjective, not a noun. Considering we are human beings, we need a noun. And that word is "women" and "girls". Male humans can never be girls nor women, so there is no reason we should be reducing women's place in society while also deconstructing and removing our rights...to give to men. Amazing that it's 2020 and this is happening.

@richardbanker3910

Жыл бұрын

I deeply and hugely sympathise with the situation that women - let’s use the word as defined - have had a totally raw deal from the trans activists. I am on the left and am totally ashamed at the way that chunks of the left have copped out or been incredibly mindless in accepting the self ID garbage when the history of the left is to take a materialist starting point. They’ve abandoned their own heritage for senseless reasons. Kathleen Stock does an absolutely fine job in fairly analysing the situation and from a logical materialist starting point. And the UCU let her down catastrophically in the hounding she got at Sussex University.

Respect to Kathleen Stock and shame on those trying to silence her.

Thank you so much. This feminist grass-root movement is a true antidote to post-modern identity politics gone mad. I hope such a thing will happen in France too. Thank you, Woman's Place UK and all your great speakers!

@MartinCleaver

5 жыл бұрын

Great expression! "A true antidote to post-modern identity politics gone mad."

@dascarter1

4 жыл бұрын

Feminists opened the door for this madness to be imposed on all women.

@youcantdiealonewithcats

3 жыл бұрын

@@dascarter1 No.

@youcantdiealonewithcats

3 жыл бұрын

@@dascarter1 in fact, that's the exact opposite of the truth. Feminists have been fighting against identity politics since the 1960's on. Welcome. Just because you didn't start paying attention to the things that affect women until...what, 2016?, means nothing. Of course men can't be bothered by the issues that affect women, until you see something in the mainstream media and suddenly think you know a thing or two, or perhaps you fear it might somehow affect you. So now it matters lol. I'm glad you're awake, good morning.

Dr Stock, I am an alumna of Sussex and live in the county. I support you 100%. Stay strong, hold your head up. You have loads of support.

The “if we got rid of it, we’d just have to reinvent it, because it’s still a thing” comment about the term lesbian made me laugh so much because it is such an obvious truth in such plain terms. It was almost absurd to have to hear it said.

Seems like a good place to express some support for Dr. Stock (who certainly 'needs' it, even if she looks to be totally capable of taking care of herself). Excellent talk.

This is FANTASTIC! Some clarity at last. What a brave & brilliant Woman

Kathleen Stock is just brilliant.

Clearly and brilliantly explained

I greatly admire female philosophers ❤️These are excellent points made in context of the current social climate and the ability for women to speak out about their own rights and their own bodies.

i love her

Excellent speech. Imagine if any other protected category was silenced in the way women are. But we are fierce, and we'll persist.

Thank you for speaking out truth Dr Stock. Thank you for WPUK for recording.

Thank you from USA.

You brought up some great points in this! Thank you!

This was amazing and inspiring thank you so much for your bravery .

I'm a Transsexual-Woman and I was recently watching a live stream with Kathleen. Loved it ! She's brilliant, fair and I'd love to hear more from her. I am curious to ask though. Does any Women here ever see a coalition between Women and Transsexuals ? I mean I feel we're both on the same page about Self ID and how it's harming so many people. Thanks !

@DonnaBrooks

2 жыл бұрын

Not a coalition, but there are some transexual individuals who speak out about misogyny & homophobia in what has become the trans demands movement. Miranda Yardley has a couple of interviews on Benjamin Boyce's channel that, along with interviews of Kathleen, Helen Joyce, Abigail Shrier (all 3 are authors whose books you should buy & whose interviews & presentations you should look for online!) & Stephanie Davies-Arai, were instrumental in "peaking" me, IOW, they helped me understand how insane everything had gotten while I wasn't paying attention! I am almost never on Facebook anymore, but if you are, send me a PM and I can send you a link to my YT playlist about these issues. That will help you get started in finding thoughtful, articulate people discussing the many issues trance gender ideology, self-ID, & identity politics is having on women, children, LGB people, & the rights of everyone to free speech. A couple of YT channels you may want to check out are: Graham Linehan, Peak Trans, & A Wider Lens. On Graham's channel, there's an ongoing series called, "The Mess We're In," and there's a vid for "Trans Day of Visibility," which features several transexuals who are critical of the modern "trans" (whatever that even MEANS anymore!) movement. Def check that one out!

@LightSpell28

Жыл бұрын

between women and those transsexuals who understand self-id harms women and don't claim their transsexualism allows them to be in womens spaces? sure. i remember on tumblr around 2013 ish there were a bunch of transsexuals like this (snowflakeespecial, terfisaslur, auntyorthodox and some others whose usernames i dont remember). corinna cohn on the heterodorx podcast has been talking about this topic a lot

@fredakharlo9062

11 ай бұрын

Lesbian feminist here. We feminists always supported gays n trans people human rights. You males did little to support wimmin's rights. Now you allow xtreme tran males to define female. You can have the social constuctions but not a womyn's place or space. Tome for ALL MEN to educate the fuck up. Mysogny is real even with gays.

This was brilliant and so necessary. Thank you

I am so sad to have seen this 3 years after she delivered a heartfelt plea for reflective,open, fact based debate on the day this thoughtful philosopher announced her departure from Sussex uni presumably through exhaustion.

Just I agree with you so much. Thank goodness for some common sense here. I hope the government are listening.

Clear and concise. Thank you.👍

More and more people need to speak out. They can't fire all of you. There's strength in numbers!!

She's awesome! Brave and smart! ✊✊✊

@beviwevi

5 жыл бұрын

Good to make the distinction between everyday trans people and the Militant Activist Trans movement. Freedom of speech should prevail.

By the way it's great to see British feminists leading the charge on this. Next to absolutely zero on this from Europe.

@mariussielcken

3 жыл бұрын

Pardon? The pope has fiercely condemned gender ideology.

@marisolh2939

2 жыл бұрын

Gender ideology has arrived later in other countries and the media tell us that this is the progress because it has been implemented in modern countries such as UK, Canada, USA and the North of Europe. We don't recieve news of the backlash to trans ideology. In Spain the organization "Contra el borrado de las mujeres" defend our rights based on our sex.

"They need to woman up". I love it!

Makes sense to me.

Behind you 100%. You are a warrior, keep telling the truth.

Brilliant!

What is the philosophical and social timeline that has led to this state of affairs? When did it become okay for men to simply say they are women? What is the intellectual climate that has given rise to this situation?

@robt3407

2 жыл бұрын

One word: liberation. The moment women removed themselves from the traditional roles and expectations to be women it was a wrap. Many men also want the same freedom to be freed from their traditional roles. No more providers and protectors when women can do these. So trans men want to enjoy what they perceive to be female privileges.

@tonycairns6728

Жыл бұрын

'Gender Identity' is a post-structuralist 'queer' theory. It co-opted post-WW2 'psycho-social' theories around gender. It's only been around for a couple of decades, and has triggered this bizarre 'identity crisis'. They're looking for the '4th dimension' of sexuality. There isn't one. Basically, were all still male and female, like every other animal.

Nobody has the right to not be offended. Keep up the good work Professor.

Fantastic!

Keep talking Kathleen !

Wow! That was an outstanding speech✊🏼

stand with you!

Thank you!

Excellent i love kathleen stock. Well said

Just checked Stonewall and shocked to see they are advertising my local NHS Hospitals legal team

I think in some activist circles notions like "causing harm" or "violence" are being used far too loosely.

@stranglewankhitman4936

5 жыл бұрын

Amazingly they ignore the actual violence committed against trans women by other men. Much of the violence is in the sex industry, johns and pimps attacking their victims, or in domestic relationships, boyfriends attacking their trans partners. Violent men don't listen to feminists, if they did they wouldn't be johns or domestic abusers in the first place.

Knocked my socks off!

With such a coherent and measured talk, Kathleen, you should have not been asking the chair "How long have I left to talk?". And as a PS, I'm sending this link (and the transcript on Medium) to my woman MP, here in one of the most prestigious university towns in the world. A university with wold-leading departments in Human Biology and in Philosophy.

How is trying to distinguish between real and abstract human rights "playing intellectual games with people's lives"? How have so many on the "left" got dragged onto the bandwagon of self-id/politicised narcissism?

What you say should be said "because it matters".

Please never stop speaking!

👏👏👏

I think for someone like me, who supports trans-rights, but doesn't support self-identification, but believes in biological sex, this debate has become really confusing. I support the rights of trans-women who have transitioned and are just trying to live their lives, but I don't support men who self identify as women, but don't transition, as problematic. I think that it would be ridiculous for a woman who's lived her life for twenty-years as transexual to be denied access to a female space, such as a bathroom, for example. But at the same time, I refuse to acknowledge that a man who identifies as a woman, who doesn't transition, should have access to those spaces. That's the discussion that we should be having, but of course, the general public isn't really aware of this, because the media, parliament, academia and social media have shut down those conversations and prevented rational discussions, in favour of inclusivity and progressive thinking. And there's nothing wrong with either of those things, as long as they don't come as the expense of the rights of a particular group, which they do. There's also a massive hypocrisy as well when I'm thinking about this issue, because as a man, I've watched the media and some feminists create this narrative in the wake of the #metoo movement, that men are dangerous, aggressive and toxic. But now, it seems like men aren't necessarily dangerous, aggressive and toxic, if they say they identify as a woman, and that just doesn't feel right to me.

@kadimah1

3 жыл бұрын

Well, I sure wish you'd get involved then. Because women like myself, who showed up for decades to *actively* support acceptance, dignity and equal protection for trans people, are being completely betrayed, abused, and left out to dry. We were there for you, yet we're totally alone in the face of a movement that's dehumanizing us by reducing us to "vagina havers" and "people who menstruate" and that's concretizing the ability for literally any man who wants it to obtain access to our safe spaces, no questions asked. Maybe you need to start reigning your people in a little, or are you scared of them, too?

@AdamBlaizeLives

3 жыл бұрын

@@kadimah1 I’m not trans, I’m just someone who acknowledges what’s been happening.

Brilliant thanx really important

Same censorship anywhere, including here in Brasil.

You know what I REALLY miss the days when this insanity was a non issue when common sense came first, facts over feelings, no one being called a phobe for not being "nice minded" when it wasn't you are this or that - you could have opinions that didn't have to be extremes I miss the days where young people were just allowed to be young and have fun not have PC propaganda forced on them When I was in uni in 2003-06 Biggest debates we had were Beer or Rum? House Party or Pub Crawl? Costume Party or Masquerade? Go to the Theatre or Go to a Game at a Stadium? Movie Night or Trivia Night The answer to the shaming and having to share stuff in private is to hold Referendums as FINAL says on polices

Having a period without ovaries 🤔

Great talk. One of the weirdest things I've read recently is the comment 'Women with penises are the best women'. I believe this was a genuine attempt at solidarity with trans people, but I wondered what would happen if I wrote back 'The best men are those with a vagina'? Somehow I doubt this would have got as many likes.

It's also interesting that they conveniently avoid the subject of trans men. If genitals are the reason you wouldn't sleep with blaire white who is an incredibly feminine looking trans woman but who has a penis. Than would you sleep with a trans man who had a beard and otherwise very manly appearance but had a vagina? It's completely legitimate to say neither the trans woman for having a penis and the trans man for appearing male above the waist. But it's weird they don't talk about it. Personally I have no idea as I'm bisexual so it doesn't matter to me. But I reckon if you surveyed lesbians, gay men, and straight men and women you wouldn't get a universal response to these 2 cases. For instance blaire whites boyfriend defines himself as straight despite his girlfriend having a penis. So clearly mono sexual people do not all agree. Of course nobody should ever be obliged to sleep with anybody or any group if for you to be aroused both your partners physical appearance and genitalia must be male or female that's fine. But equally I don't think you have a right to take away somebodys gay or straight status because they disagree with you. If you will only sleep with biological women and trans women or only biological men and trans men or only biological women and trans men or only biological men and trans women it seem inaccurate to call you bi or pan since your clearly only batting for one side, it's just how you define that side that differs.

I really wish she would do an interview in which she just expressed all the ways In which she believes trans should exist - for example a ftm "transsexual" who has had "X" procedure they should be able to .... be in ladies rooms - call themselves lesbian and be accepted in... I have now probably watched over 10 of her interviews and read her book - and I think if she maybe wrote about all the acceptable spaces or protections - her mission would be more clear and maybe less controversial...

@user-ct8us9un1f

2 жыл бұрын

I listened to a podcast she was on recently and she said trans women who have transitioned and look female shouldn't be forced to use the mens room and really, how could they be stopped even if that was a concern? Nobody will challenge someone who looks female. Also on this topic I watched a video of a trans woman who very much looked female trying to use the mens loo at a bar and she got kicked out - so yeah. Her stance on lesbianism seems firm and tbh it fits with the definition. A lesbian is someone of the female sex who is same sex attracted so on that basis a trans woman isn't a lesbian. Maybe another word needs to be created for trans women who are female attracted to be able to refer to themselves but that probably needs to come from the group itself.

@Jasminestealth1

2 жыл бұрын

@@user-ct8us9un1f i believe that she is way more accepting of fully transitioned females.. and her fight against lesbians is the mentality that a trans woman who still has a penis is not a woman... and a lesbian who does not accept that is being treated as if they are transphobic.... I TOTALLY AGREE - they are not transphobic and a person with a penis is a man... that is the determining factor of birth identification.. not XX or XY not if they have a womb its their outward genital appearance... I think she should just speend as much time explaining and supporting this... and maybe the only ones who will be hateful is the delusionary people who have tits and a penis...id imagine a much smaller group...

Of course we need philosophers. Duh.

I agree with her that she should be free to speak and express her viewpoints. But it's ironic that feminists can see this problem when it's a feminist critiquing trans activists but not when it's anyone criticising feminism. Feminism is the mainstream now in media, academia, politics everywhere. And arguing against it is very difficult, and leads to the same kind of social shaming she's talking about. You can't set up these structures and than complain when they're used against you.

@karitabanana

4 жыл бұрын

But I don't think her kind of feminism ever did that. You're talking about third way feminism and grievance studies more generally which is not the tradition that Stock is coming from.

@kadimah1

3 жыл бұрын

Feminism didn't set it up and isn't the mainstream. If it were, we wouldn't see women's rights being rolled back all over the U.S. and the rest of the Western world at this alarming rate.

I support her speech, it is unbearable to have my ears pierced with the shrill noise of shouting voices. The editing makes this video literally impossible to listen to.

What she says has merit but the kind of applause she is getting is a bit troubling.

@sondraarrache1908

4 жыл бұрын

I think people are getting sick of the insanity and therefore vigorous in their reply.

Feminism is equality for men and women I’m so happy

@laurenc180

5 жыл бұрын

Equality to what men have laid out? I don’t want to be equal to men. Men aren’t good role models.

@laurenc180

5 жыл бұрын

Equality to what men have laid out? I don’t want to be equal to men. Men aren’t good role models.

@laurenc180

5 жыл бұрын

Equality to what men have laid out? I don’t want to be equal to men. Men aren’t good role models.

@laurenc180

5 жыл бұрын

Equality to what men have laid out? I don’t want to be equal to men. Men aren’t good role models.

@quvezhanewallis6205

5 жыл бұрын

Lauren Clark whoa whoa feminism is equality between the sexes and equality for lgbtq what’s wrong with you aren’t you a feminist? Why do you hate men so much?

The left needs to own its problem child. I absolutely support this woman, but I constantly hear nothing but vitriol from her side of politics about 'all men' etc. Centrists on both sides of the political aisle are the natural allies of the lesbian liberation movement, and unlike much of the left - it is the right who is standing against the trans cult madness. I think the left needs to have a good hard look at itself (as does the right for its own sins) and recognise that this madness is not coming from your average football loving bloke or the geezer on the construction sites - this is gestated almost exclusively on the left, by the left and for the left.

@deplorabled1695

5 жыл бұрын

@Black Knight Fool Sure seems that way. It's a shame because now we have Julie Bindel, shunned by the Gruaniad now writing for the Spectator - she is now writing some very different stuff from the divisive articles she used to put together. Maybe she has some introspection. One things for sure, if you want to bring the mainstream onto your side, it's very difficult to do so when you speak out of the other side of your mouth about how horrible those people in the mainstream are on every other issue.

@deplorabled1695

4 жыл бұрын

@El Matadores Yes, and it's in part biological and part social. I will accept the concept of 'toxic' masculinity if people will accept that men are evolutionary designed to veer towards domination.... and that women frequently sexually reward that behaviour. Quiet, introverted and submissive males are mostly despised by most females.

@naomiesther9861

4 жыл бұрын

@El Matadores Your argument is utter bollocks. Lesbians have the highest rates of domestic violence across any group in society. It is funny how you choose to ignore female violence and toxic femininity.

I just think Kathleen's position as a feminist restricts her view, and maybe has lead to her being offensive - and she was clearly offensive, she denies it but her generalizations were in fact clear once you scratch beneath the surface of her discourse; she labels trans people as confused in this video shortly and laughs - her behavior is wrong. She believes whole heartedly your body defines your being, and not that the body was used as symbolism to coerce identity creation, something women should understand; Kathleen is wrong and doesn't seek to disprove the newer thinking...that empowers schools and universities to be prepared for a greater range of students and individuals and their support needs...education organizations are not teaching boys their female, instead they support individuals who have the belief they gender identity and body are not per say in sync...why is this so hard to understand? Kathleen essentially stands against freedom, with the position she takes, her tone she applies is relying on an under-educated common sense...and common sense is not always correct.

She lost me at "we live in a sexist society"

this is horrible and transphobic, i feel so scared hearing talk like this being accepted in society

@corsinivideos

5 жыл бұрын

Well you must have been watching something completely different then or just not understanding what she is saying because nothing about this is in any way transphobic.

@mcewenca

5 жыл бұрын

I really don’t understand why. She said nothing against transgendered people and the problem is that women can’t speak about women’s issues without it being perceived as transphobic, that’s scary.

@karitabanana

4 жыл бұрын

why is a call for more debate and research on the real differences between ciswomen and transwomen "transphobic"?

@alphonsemoonflee299

3 жыл бұрын

Perhaps you didn't listen to what she said. She has the support of other transwomen who say the same things and find it scary that tra are pitting trans people against women. Women are losing their rights and Kathleen wants debate so it is discussed and dealt with fairly. How on earth is that scary? What is scary are the people who shut others down by simply saying the words transphobic or hate speech without explanation or detail. Nothing is solved by this other than a complete backlash which is far worse. Nuance and critical thinking something everyone should be taught.

@carmenwalker5788

3 жыл бұрын

Ok... I'm a Transsexual-Woman I think Kathleen is BRILLIANT. She realizes the difference between Transsexuals like myself and Self Declared '' trans-women '' Nothing she's saying is transphobic. She's not trying to eradicate anyone, or wish ill will on anyone.