This video is why I'm proud to say I'm an Otter. Juggling is a small part ( but important) of our lives but this is an example of things in our everyday lives. You addressed the issue very elegantly and with passion. The issue is complex but needs to have voices. Role Models in these sports and careers are important to inviting others to participate . Thanks for being one of those role models.

@TaylorTries

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Bruce 💓

Why does there need to be a list in the first place? Cant we all just have fun?!

@OriginalBeast

3 жыл бұрын

First and foremost this thing has showed me people just love popularity contests. Wish that shit just stayed in HS.

@TaylorTries

3 жыл бұрын

I agree 😂 it’d be so nice if we could all just stop pitting each other against one another and pretending it’s harmless. I think the list can be really beneficial for a lot of people, it can be a motivator for them to get better. But the negatives are so intense it amazes me more people don’t see them.

@Sapoinho

3 жыл бұрын

As it becomes to be a sport, the competition is normal. The winner takes it all, the second nobody cares about. That's sad, but that's sport - it has nothing to do with health and fairness, just money drives it. That's why I just juggle :-) Could not make it into any list anyway... hmm maybe into the list of the worst 40 jugglers ;)

That's crazy you definitely should be on it. You are helping Juggling a lot. You got me interesting in Juggling again after a break.

Thanks for this video, and good job in staying calm and explaining stuff you've probably explained over and over again.

I’m a beginning juggler so “top” lists are not a thing on my radar but, based on 50 years on this planet as a woman, I agree with much of what you said. Don’t let the dismissive comments get to you.

Congrats on receiving top 2 in the top 40 jugglers You truly earned it. Im happy for you and enjoy watching you share your talent to the world. Keep up the great work. Carlos

Equality of opportunity = good thing. Equality of outcome = bad thing

@jak6744

2 жыл бұрын

Yes

“Take time to try to give opportunities to people who don’t have those same privileges [as you]. It will make you more deserving to be in the Top 40 jugglers.” Amen.

In the end, it's his list, and his rules. And it's all just for fun anyway. I don't see a problem with mixing things up and experimenting. As you note, the beneficial effect has less to do about who's on top of a popularity contest, and a lot more to do with starting the conversation. Mission accomplished.

I've always been really proud to be part of the juggling community and have found it to include some of the most welcoming and wonderful people in my life, but reading the comments in the FB discussion surrounding these issues has been so depressing. There is a problem, it is real, and something needs to change. Thank you for standing up and calling out the inequality, and pushing to make positive changes

@TaylorTries

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah, it honestly amazes me how many guys have told me (in the past day) that they feel the juggling community is so welcoming and supportive, and yet don’t realize how all these comments show a different reality for women and that’s literally the problem.

Thank you for always advocating towards equality! It's so easy to forget how unbalanced life can be, so we all need to stay on top of this kind of situation! But in all realness what's the worst that comes from this new idea? We find more new creative, amazing, and Inspiring jugglers! Decisions like these are certainly pushing our juggling community in the right direction towards tolerance, equality, and (what's the most fun) new styles of juggling! Keep up the great work Taylor!

Wow Taylor. Excellent work. At first I was kind of confused, but you explained it so well that I really get what you are saying and can totally see where you are coming from and I completely agree with you. You totally deserved to be on that list btw.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. From a POC juggler. 🤎

Dear Taylor, the death of happiness is the comparison with others Never look back, only look forward. Do your thing and it will be good. You have so many patreons around the world who like and support you. That counts! I also support you through Patreon. Have a good time. From Germany Michael

God, I love your passion in this video! You really hit so many good points about how biased the this is because of systemic issues and the factors that people take credit for that they have no control over. I'm reminded of a quote, "Mediocre men are outperforming outstanding women because of the nature of the system." I'm very interested in seeing how the list will appear this year, and whether the average voter count will be lower than previous years because of an unwillingness to participate. In my experience, these are growing pains as the community learns to deal with the fact that no, they are not all special snowflakes.

Wow. Taylor, I like you and respect you as my juggling teacher and coach too much to weigh in on this complex topic. Have a great day!

thank you. thank you for your words. over the years ive taught many many people to juggle. and they can be anyone. i love teaching anyone/everyone to juggle.

This is a really great conversation to have. There are so many factors, and the answer isn’t clear, but it’s important to discuss. I’m a little surprised by the reactions from the community. I feel like performers and artists are usually more open and empathetic to these struggles. There’s so much diversity among us, which we can all benefit from... so many perspectives to enrich and grow from. I’m all about trying new approaches, for my daughter, for my LGBTQ-+ friends and family, for my friends of color. Let’s try to bring everyone up, because we all win when more of us are empowered and appreciated. I’m aware of my privileges, and I would be thrilled to see that gap close. It doesn’t make life worse for me, to make life better for others. That’s a childish view. Thanks for posting this, Taylor. It’s important to discuss, and you made some fantastic points. This was time well spent. 👏🏼

@BassTromBen

3 жыл бұрын

By the way, whenever my daughter hears “hey everybody!,” she comes to see what you’re about to teach me. You’re already a positive role model in her life, and have really helped me to improve my “advanced mediocre”status. Keep being awesome and passionate. You’re making the world a better place, whether you realize it or not. 😊

Thank you we really needed someone to bring this up on a larger scale so hopefully more people will talk about these problems in the community

I didn't even know this juggler popularity contest existed. Maybe I'll check it out sometime. I liked the videos where Taylor showcased content from other Jugglers. It wasn't a popularity contest. It was a domain expert using editorial judgement. I guess I'm more of a technocrat than a democrat.

@TaylorTries

3 жыл бұрын

I liked those videos too. But I really disliked how much harassment I got for doing them. The messages I’d get telling me I was being unfair in my features because I was only including women and guys of color. The comments I got telling me to just stop talking and shut up and juggle. No matter what I do sexism is going to affect it. That won’t stop me personally from trying, but it’s going to stop a lot of super talented women, and it’s definitely going to make me and other women less excited about doing it. And that’s a damn shame.

@thestreet9537

3 жыл бұрын

Like there is a difference

Sooo well said, Taylor!! Hope you’re doing well :)

Thanks to you I know how to juggle like a pro

Thank you for your bravery in speaking up about these important issues and advocating for others who do not have a voice (right now) in your community! It takes a lot of courage to call out issues in a community that you love and are part of, and I have so much admiration for you. Thank you for addressing the problem so articulately, and keep on making positive changes in your community - I stand by you! 💜

I'm a man who thinks you're absolutely right. You have showed the problem really well. Juggling, I guess, isn't different than other realities. So it's time to realize that anything can be fair if it doesn't represent everyone equally. You've put all this in a very smart words. You're not only one of the best jugglers ever, you're so intelligent! 👏👏

while I'm not a fan of gender quotas myself seeing them more as boycotting the problem rather than tackling them, I have to agree with the alarm bells that are these men shutting down luke's idea so quick. It's a start and something that should be given proper thought. By trying it or at least openly discussing we can start looking for the root of the original problem, that I think you covered really well. Diverse jugglers that belong to different ethnic groups or are of different genders that do reach the top are really important to me, and workshops that promote juggling in certain countries and just opportunities given to people of less privilege go such a long way. Change is coming:)

@finnstercycles6766

3 жыл бұрын

Are you Kristina?

@AFunkyHypnoCat

3 жыл бұрын

@@finnstercycles6766 perhaps

Well said! Was a little concerned about this topic, but it's so important. Things are complicated, but that doesn't mean change won't help. We need to talk about it, at lease acknowledge the problem exists before we can get past it.

1.6 billion people in the world lack clean water. 2.6 billion lack adequate sanitation. 1.4 billion have no electricity. If you are fortunate enough to help, please resolve to make a difference that can reduce these numbers!

@SteveNinetyski

3 ай бұрын

Nice sentiment...

This was a very strong and powerful message. I honestly was not aware of the issues within the community until now. Thank you Taylor for addressing the problem and really putting a lot into perspective. As a Latinx man, my experiences and background does and will always make an impact. Everyone deserves the recognition and praise because excluding people of color and women jugglers is absolutely appalling. Know that this is going on is absolutely horrible. Thank you Taylor again for this video! You always got a family with us to support you! ❤️ #OtterClub

I love how the yo-yo community is so diverse.

@abrodsky

3 жыл бұрын

Your making a joke right? Yoyoing ain’t diverse. The average male to female ratio in yoyoing is at best 90% men to maybe 10% women with majority being white men. That ain't diversity. The people dominating the contest still are predominantly white teenage boys, The only difference though is since yoyoing skews to a younger crowd there are more progressive in how they handle diversity in yoyoing , there is much less mysogny and sexism present than juggling as, juggling has a much older crowd with many more people in their 60s. Another reason why yoyoing doesn’t see as much misogyny is due to the fact that since yoyoing is so small and tightknit if any man spoke badly of a someone and, if the victim being harassed made a post or spoke out about it the yoyo community has there back and would outright ostracize them and give them a tar and feather for good measure. Yoyoing presently has the issues of a severe lack of women in it and is constantly try to recruit more women into yoyoing which has made somethings like the women's exhibitionary division at the national and world yoyo contests as a way to showcase women in the community to hopefully encourage more girls to join the community. (for the jugglers reading this not knowing jackshit about yoyo the lack of women is mainly due to yoyoing in the 90s and previous decades having advertising skewing to boys) when the ratio of women to men in yoyoing becomes closer to 50/50 I guarantee yoyoing will have the same growing pains as the juggling community has now.

@Battshimself

3 жыл бұрын

@@abrodsky you cant force females to yoyo.. Females have there own yoyos with YYF and if you go to a contest in the us you will see a lot of white males.. but works is held all over the world. How many asians have yoyo's made for them.. you gotta be the biggest WhiteKnight on youtube..

@JYee

3 жыл бұрын

@@Battshimself I'm gonna speak on the female aspect of the yoyo world. I've been in the yoyo scene since 1998 so I've seen a LOT of things through the years and know what kind of things go on behind the scenes. The community definitely isn't as diverse when it comes to males vs females. The fact is that not many girls get into Yoyoing and as a result the contest and scene is hugely dominated by males. There are ways that companies and contest try to help push for more focus on women to highlight and appreciate them, but there's still not a huge population. As well as this, there has been issues with many of the male members of the yoyo world making females feel very uncomfortable with comments and actions. It's definitely a problem that has existed for quite some time and my hope is that we can see less of it in the future and create a more safe and welcoming environment.

@fritzlange7934

3 жыл бұрын

Idk, I feel the list kinda goes up and down.

Equality feels like oppression to those who have been in charge for a long time.

You’re stuff is amazing! Push though! And keep up the great work!

I've known how to juggle 3 balls since I was 10 because my brother, who was a hard worker, had several jobs and one was entertaining kids. I always knew it was special but never tried harder than showing off for a few minutes, forget spending hours and hours and hours learning to train my left hand beyond personal and social embarrassment, just so I think I'm nearly adequate. Covid kind of hit home that maybe I was already isolating myself a lot more than I thought. I decided to give juggling a real try and, I mean I really real try. I started getting better, but the best part was I started doing anything and everything that would help my juggling. I have a little rhythm now, I can do some simple coin manipulation, tai chi, whatever. I make it up as I go. I decided my form had to b bad and wanted a skilled KZread juggling video to watch, so I watched an amazingly skilled guy show how to juggle 3 balls in like 10 minutes. I didn't get it. He's really freaking good! He's just not a teacher. So I tried one more and its Taylor tries. Ok, why not. Shes probably better anyway. She was. A whole lot. Something about her clicked besides the incredible work put into the whole thing and being a better juggler than I might ever be. I only watched like two or three 3 ball videos but I got it. And I stopped trying 4 till I had 3 better. I just started trying 4 today just to see. I'm less spastic at least. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I randomly watched this video because I thought I might b pushing myself too far and I needed to rest. I really, really like her now. I think if u call yourself a juggler you should have developed the mental acuity to do basically what she says in ur head in like 3 seconds tops. Or just adjust on the fly. Like a juggler would.

You are right, and you are fighting the good fight. Your passion for juggling, equality, and equal opportunity for all is inspiring.

People like you make me feel safer coming into the community

I feel like when I was most into juggling (2010ish) juggling was massive. I went to uni, lost track and got back into it years later and it had disappeared. Vova Galchenko and Jason garfield had semi retired. What happened?

@danielreitermusic

5 ай бұрын

I had a similar experience, thinking it had mostly died off since I didn't see the 2010s juggling stars still putting out conent. It turns out the juggling community is actually bigger than ever nowadays though. It's mostly moved to Instagram instead of KZread which makes it a lot harder to discover. Let me know if you want some recommendations on people to follow there.

Thanks for posting.

It's one of the reasons I loved your juggling video round ups is because the people you chose to spotlight was wonderfully diverse. Seeing culture reflected through people throwing things gave me a strong sense of the breadth of the community and possibilities that are ingrained in juggling. What it can be as an art form that reflects our values.

whos the best woman juggler ?

If I understand it correctly, the core argument (there are a few secondary ones) is: a) there is gender and race imbalance in the top 40 list; b) it is highly unlikely that the imbalance is due to disparities in talent or hard work; c) the disparities is due to privilege, i.e. different circumstances that have enabled white male jugglers; d) quotas may not be perfect, but we have not tried them, so let's not shoot this proposal down preemptively. Statement a) is descriptive and uncontroversial; statement b) is speculative but likely true; c) is (I think) the crux of the argument, and highly debatable. As for d) it doesn't really follow. I would like to touch briefly on b) and d), and focus on c). Regarding innate skill differences: different populations or sexes *may* have different levels of eye-hand coordination. Physiological differences in human performance exist for some sports and they manifest in performance statistics. I don't know of any data on coordination abilities; it would be interesting to find out. I have a pretty prior belief that they are either non-existent or quite small. I would not give it probability zero, though, and found the a priori exclusion of this possibility a bit annoying, but not important. Just don't assume away what you don't like. The real issue is with c). You define privilege as anything involving different starting positions. First of all, that is not necessarily privilege at all. Privilege is essentially an exemption from a general duty. Not paying a speeding ticket because you are the relative of a policeman is an (unjust) privilege (and is a real thing in some counties); so it not having to pass very hard college admission exams (USSR Jews had to take them, Russians didn't). Having more free time to juggle because your parents are wealthy or you were born in Norway instead of Bolivia is *not* a privilege. Having greater talent (because of individual variation, not race or gender) is in itself a huge "privilege"; and so is having a competitive and persistent temperament. Why then not consider them part of the mix? There would be much more to say about this; a first free reference is Stanford's Encyclopedia of Philosophy ( plato.stanford.edu/entries/rights/#FormRighHohfAnalSyst ); I know it's not a page-turner, but since you are making a philosophical argument, you should be equally careful to the use of language. "Luck" is not the same as "privilege"; and luck-equalizing schemes are much, much more contestable than ones aimed at reducing privileges. There is another point that is not completely clear to me. Is the ranking unfair because it does not reflect the true top 40 jugglers, or because the jugglers in the top 40 are the best but have gotten there because of unfair advantage? It seems to me that the first explanation is more likely, and is self-reinforcing. White male jugglers are the vast majority of jugglers; they vote for their peers; other groups feel discouraged and drop off from the community; and the vicious circle continues unabated. If that is the issue, then there are many measures one could take: 1. not making it a popularity context but having a panel of experts to select the top 40; 2. Highlight in different initiatives newcomer groups, so that they build a user base and end up voting and participating at the top level; 3. scrapping the thing altogether. But the second option (which seems to me what you are hinting at) is fraught with difficulties. First of all, I think (not alone in this) it's just normatively wrong (see above). The idea of equalizing starting positions by either handicapping "privileged" participants can be implemented in a number of ways: forbidding repeated participation of previous winners; setting higher bar for advantaged participants. Quotas have not been tried *in juggling*; but wherever they have been, they have caused (without hyperbole) civil wars; check Yugoslavia during Tito; or Rwanda post-Belgium. If the outcome reflects objective performance but we must make the system fairer, then the top 40 jugglers are not that different from an Olympic 100m race. Of course the US, or even Jamaica, have access to training facilities, methods and practitioner pools not available to Benin or Cameroon. Should we change the metric, then? The fact that we haven't for the Olympics reflects the weak standing of the alternatives. Apologies for this abnormally long comment; but the "ethic applied to juggling" angle is very unusual and interesting. As a rhetorical device, by the way, I would not conclude the video with "be better", by the way. If this is a complex problem (and it is) in which we are trying to figure out the truth together, then telling a counterpart -- the people reflexively against quotas -- to "be better" usually signals that there is no real symmetry here, and that the argument was not in good faith to start with.

How about a top 20 women list and a top 20 men list?? Edit: I understand the reasoning behind Lukes quota idea, it's just from a mathematicians point of view it doesn't really work hence separate lists would seem like the obvious choice

@buzzmas8068

3 жыл бұрын

Why not top 40 of each? No need to make them shorter

@jontiruell1934

3 жыл бұрын

@@buzzmas8068 the only thing is that would be a lot more work creating thile Vid/vids etc but if Luke was up for it then yeah why not

@RoseTaylorrmt

3 жыл бұрын

The reason I do not want this solution is that I fear people would just ignore the women's list! (To see an example of this, you can compare the attention paid to men's and women pro sports.) The top 40 list is prestigious socially, even though it's a popularity contest. Luke's idea as it is now is attempting to experiment with trying to make sure women who are really good jugglers actually get some of that prestige! Other ideas that silo women to a separate list might not do this effectively.

@TheFriskyTurtle

3 жыл бұрын

To say it doesn't really work, you are assuming you know exactly what it's trying to do. If it's trying to put 5 men and 5 women into the top 10, then you're right, cause it won't do that. But if it causes people to seek out jugglers who are women so that they can cast more votes, then perhaps that's mission accomplished.

@jontiruell1934

3 жыл бұрын

@@TheFriskyTurtle that's a good point, I guess I was assuming people would have to submit ten votes with 5 women and 5 men which would definitely skew the data but if its only upto 5 of each it would be a bit different I guess

Because of you I learn 3 ballcascade, mills mess ,box, grace,shower and still learning......

How do I vote

@frankietrachtman4485

3 жыл бұрын

go to Luke Burrage's channel and sub he should soon put out a voting video I think he said on the 4th but I'm not sure

Thank you Taylor for informing us. I'm a white male juggler that's on your side, I love your juggling and all the stuff you try. I have a lot of female jugglers I follow and I might just vote for Only Women this year to show solidarity!

. Like Taylor said “It’s complicated”. Comparing jugglers is difficult to begin with. I don’t know what the criteria is for the top 40. It’s says it’s based on “your favorite jugglers”. So that can perpetuate bias. It can slow change. My guess is it was created for fun and to create discussion about what jugglers like. There is no doubt white privilege exists in the juggling community. There are other cultural forces as well. The juggling convention used to be almost all white males. So it is getting better. More jugglers = good.

@DrexFactor

3 жыл бұрын

All the more reason to find ways to increase representation. If more jugglers = good then more jugglers of different backgrounds, genders, and ethnicities = good.

I personally think it could be a good idea to have a mens and women's juggling competition in general. I've noticed this is action sports as well that men and women have different styles of doing things. Neither is superior or inferior, but just very different styles for the most part. There are exceptions of course, but but I'm just talking averages. We should try out the top 10 with 5 men and 5 women, but I personally think there should be a mens professional juggling association and a women's professional juggling association. I don't know enough about the gender discrimination topic to make many more points, but I do enjoy mens and women's juggling for the skill and the way the patterns look. I personally don't care about gender, but there are associations that may favor men over women and not even know it. At least in this case, they know it, and are trying to make it right. Keep up the great work, and thank you for your videos and instagram posts in these trying times.

@mattm5242

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. It would be great to have 2 separate leaderboards. I think it is very common for males and females to have different interests. I am sure a huge reason why white males are the majority of well-known jugglers because, stereotypically, more males are interested in juggling than females.

@Yamabluemt

3 жыл бұрын

@@mattm5242 that is very true. If there is a vast majority of one type of person, odds are they'll make up the best, but they'll also make up the worst. Same thing happens in IQ tests, as men tend to score high or low, while women tend to score right around the middle. Edit: Emphases on the word "TEND" in that sentence.

@mattm5242

3 жыл бұрын

@@Yamabluemt Totally and Completely agree! Well said! 👏

@OriginalBeast

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah men are always going to come on top in a competition with physical ability. Sure there are outliers but in general.

@misterikkit

3 жыл бұрын

To suggest that men's and women's juggling belongs in different categories is to suggest that women can't compete with men at juggling. That kinda goes against the whole point of this video.

Been juggling 45 years and I never heard of this list and now I never want to see it. From what you explained this is a popularity contest based on performance. It's only as accurate as the voters opinion and holds no more weight then that. It's technically not even a competition. I say change the name to the most popular, it is art after all. And why not have more catigories? But to call them privileged is a stretch. It’s far more a cultural difference. And in the end anyone with balls and clubs can commit their life to these skills for very little money. And if they indeed can command that stage, they can make a living off it and do it full time. Anyone.

Taylor, come on, let's juggle! We love you as you are. ❤️

hey taylor how’s it going

Perhaps you guys have sorted the issue or maybe this is mentioned somewhere in the 280 comments, but I do not have the time to read them. I simply wanted to make the suggestion of everybody juggling in the dark with LED lit objects. Alternatively, removing the jugglers in post production and only leaving their arms. Once the voting is done then the unedited versions will be revealed. Similar approaches were taken to address the bias towards men in orchestra. They held tryouts where nobody could see but only listen and voted on pure talent.

I'm not sure if this is only a thing for the professional juggling community. Whenever I attend a local juggling convention there's usually a very balanced mix of genders and everyone is extremely nice... maybe that's just the area I live in I guess.

thank you for being willing to talk about this.

Saludos de Argentina!!!!

I agree. It’s worth trying to see what happens and we might discover a lot of jugglers that may become some of our new favorites that we wouldn’t have otherwise known about. You can’t fix a problem if things just stay the same. There’s an argumentative fallacy referred to as appeal to tradition. That’s the way it’s always been done so it’s the best way. No reason to change it. As times change and we attempt to progress as a society this is the worst logic to follow.

It's a shame that such a seemingly insignificant change cause such backlash, but it does highlight an underlying problem quite clearly. As you said, these problems are complicated and complex, they likely do not have a perfect solution, but then again sometimes you need to fix things with tie-wraps, duct tape and wd-40 until you can fix them properly later; An perfect solution Now is better than carrying on with the problem until you have the perfect solution (which might never happen anyways). Keep trying people! We'll get through this, in due time.

Hi Taylor, I’m a mixed race Chinese/Indian man who is just getting in to juggling. While I’m only now just becoming aware of this issue in the juggling community thanks to your video, it does remind me of my other hobby - miniature wargaming. We suffer the exact same issues as you describe over there too. Many of the forces enabling this sort of white male privilege are largely so well worked into the background of our society that it’s almost invisible to most. We have this ‘self made’ attitude that blinds us to the privileges that our gender and race afford us - from housing and education all the way to gaming and juggling. I find it genuinely scary to hear some in the community say that this hobby just naturally appeals to white men, and not to others. All this is to say that I commiserate and agree with you 100% - it’s not clear that these measures are the best method of correcting the problem, but it sucks that there are so many vocal members that don’t even acknowledge that there might be a problem to begin with. Wishing you all the best.

@mattm5242

3 жыл бұрын

Well said.

Mmmmmk well I think this foundation topic is really an intentional community conversation. And I prolly vote for personality too.

Man they really dropped the ball on this one. ...I'll see myself out.

@buddy3635

3 жыл бұрын

This was a nice spark of joy following a somber topic. Thank you my friend😂😂

What we are fighting for is equality of opportunity, not of outcome. Having adequate representation in the top skill levels of any craft is an indicator that skill is the driving force behind the ranking. When there is inadequate representation it spells that factors out of your control (not your skill) have more weight. If skill is the sole or majority factor in ranking then all kinds of people will have a chance to rank highly, because intrinsic factors like gender, sex, race, etc SHOULD NOT FACTOR. EVER. Quotas are not perfect but they are a tool that can be helpful to make space where none or slim appears to exist; like a crutch use them until they are no longer needed.

I saw a comment saying how it’s primarily male because of statistics and that it’s not sexist. Personally, I agree with that statement, but I’m not against anyone here. I feel like people disliked this video for a reason, but I’m on both sides of the fence.

Hi

I agree with you, to be honest I don’t mind if I’m not on the list, I’m not white by the way, my skills is not there yet, I’m juggle after work, so I can put a smile on people faces. I’m happy to do what I do, I see all the great juggler out there, I’m jelly, I was like wow. They should have a ranks, noobs, middle class, and pro. I know I will fall in the noobs category 4sho. thanks for sharing your thoughts, amend, keep up the great work, I wanna see you be on the top 5 they making a list, they checking it twice, because your skills don’t lie. Life is not fair, what would Jesus do in this situation?

Hi. Here's my two cents on the subject: The internet is not the world. The 'juggling community' is mostly an 'internet juggling community'. White people are not better at juggling, they're better at SOCIAL MEDIA. Some 90yr old Chinese juggler who performs in the streets of Shanghai is not gonna make it on the list because he/she doesn't have (and doesn't need) a youtube/instagram/whatever account, even if he/she's the best juggler in the world. Western white people are the ones who feel the need to share everything on the internet because it's permeated western society so deeply, but this is not the rule in other places and cultures. This is a good thing, it's a reminder that there's actually a world outside the internet. So we should balance that list by EXPLORING our world and trying to find these people outside the internet. But if the criteria to make it on the list is to be active on social media, yeah, it's gonna be full of white people. So, what do we do to change this? First, change that criteria to one more human-oriented (instead of the current social media-oriented list) and second, we all should turn off our PCs and phones, get out there, find and meet these unknown jugglers around the world, and LIVE ACTUAL LIFE, not some artificial illusion through a screen. Cheers, Taylor. Love your work.

Make your Top 20 girls jugglers I think it will be popular

Luke Burrage’s top juggler list is a feeble gauge of juggling talent at best. It’s a popularity poll and has little to do with the actual talent of jugglers today. It definitely needs to be renamed.

@OriginalBeast

3 жыл бұрын

or canceled?

@PierceTickle

3 жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same until I read one of Taylor's comments above "sigh It’s not about the list. I don’t care how we can improve the stupid list. I just want y’all to admit there’s a problem and start doing your part to fix it."

You are absolutely correct. JUggling isn't the only hobby/pasttime that suffers from the racism/sexism thing. But your statements could be used in any hobby/pasttime. Bigotry and gatekeeping are ugly, and it makes anything we consider fun to suck. I've called out people in cosplay (one thing I do) to stand up for LGBTQIA folks I know. It helps to be vocal. And to be sure your group is inclusive as possible. Thanks again for sharing this.

@DrexFactor

3 жыл бұрын

We're wrestling with the same problems in the Flow Arts and Burner communities right now as well...her statements could be dropped into any of those conversations and be totally relevant!

Hi Taylor your a really good juggler and a really good inspirer and if it were up to me I would put you in the top 40 juggler’s 🤹‍♀️

@WonderPenguinGD

3 жыл бұрын

she already has been for the last 2 years at number 7 and 6

@Coolguy202

3 жыл бұрын

@@WonderPenguinGD oh didn’t now lmao and I ment number 1

Hello

I'm a white male so I'm not sure if I get a say but I'm not sure if this is the best way to fix the problem I think this is an important issue that we should talk about and listen not just shout at each other in comments maybe its because I haven't seen it and maybe its because I have never been put in a situation that I have to see it and maybe I'm just blind to it I honestly don't know but I do think this is a problem that needs to be fixed and id love to know how I can help as a smaller member of the community and I know it was addressed in the video but I want to know how to help beyond that with the bigger picture of the juggling community and that doesn't change my mind about the top 40 changes I still don't think its the best idea but I'm ready and willing to have a conversation and change my mind

@DrexFactor

3 жыл бұрын

"I'm a white male..." "...I haven't seen it..." "...I have never been put in a situation..." "...maybe I'm just blind to it..." Yes...I think these are all true statements and more than likely there is a causal relationship between them.

@frankietrachtman4485

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrexFactor i completely agree and I want to know how to get past it

Ai love you

sorry, but who here can translate all this into Russian, I understand that everyone knows English, but there are 10,000 jugglers from Russia and Ukraine who do not understand and only look and want to understand.

@sebdemoorea3936

3 жыл бұрын

Try this translation (PDF file) : jeu-des-6-palets.fr/2020/12/05/juggling/ Not sure about the result, tell me.

@PsyShy

3 жыл бұрын

в нижнем правом углу при просмотре есть кнопка "включить субтитры". с включенными субтитрами в нижнем правом углу нажмите шестеренку и там будет возможность включить автоматический перевод текста на любой язык в том числе руский. перевод не идеальный но для понимания сути этого достаточно.

I think juggling is mostly male sport and should not be made artificially a female sport. The best would be to create a separate list for women. Or if you consider juggling an art, one list will be sufficient and you can say that women are not that good artists. After all, it's about how popular they are and if women are not popular, they should not be in a popularity list. You can't make people more equal by making fake popularity lists 😅 And who would want to be included just because of some quota, not because of their art? And know some good juggler is outside the list because of them? They will also be at the bottom of the list. I think there are today enough women on the list and sometimes not really good technically, but people vote for them as they are beautiful. That's their advantage. The sufficiency of being good looking should also be removed. I also don't like how the author of lists says he will block people who think otherwise from commenting... This really needs discussion to be decided, not to ignore opposing opinions. I think we should promote juggling among all groups of people, even among women, but don't change the results/outcomes of their work, which this effectively does. It's like putting together male and female 100m and saying 10.90 woman is faster than 9.95 man. This is also an opportunity for someone to make an actual popularity contest. More broadly speaking, I think males are much more likely to work on their skills and then showing off on KZread. Female jugglers may work at a circus but see no point in making videos. The list reflects that. You can't change gender differences, you can support people at doing what they want though.

@DrexFactor

3 жыл бұрын

I have the opposite perspective...I think it's artificially been made into a mostly male sport by failing to be welcoming and inclusive to women and other gender identities and the top 40 list has been one of the tools that has enabled that to happen. The best would be to take a look at how those biases have not only been integrated into the list but also into our own opinions and work to deconstruct them.

@ondrazposukie

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrexFactor I don't think men get popular because of some list. It's watched by a few thousand people... Which reminds me that top 40 popularity means nothing: it's just for geeks. Juggling at Cirque du Soleil for example makes a juggler more popular/known than getting a few tens of votes.

In normal competition there is a requirement for a "level playing field". In the 18 year the competition has been running, out of to 720 people listed, women have been listed 70 times - that's almost 10% with the 50/50 boost from 2020. When a negative bias has caused a system to be unbalanced, the removal of the bias will MAINTAIN the unbalanced system. to balance the system, a positive bias needs to be applied. The 50/50 approach created balance for the 2020 list, but to create balance across all of the years (50% male, 50% female), the list would need to contain 100% females from 2021 until 2035 - and that would fix the GENDER balance, all other inbalcances (ethnicity, race, skin colour, language, sexual orientation, etc) would also need to be fixed. ALL imbalances need to be identified and steps taken to fix them - starting with the smaller things so that we can build momentum towards achieving equality in educational opportunities, equality in pay, equality in career opportunities, equality in EVERYTHING, irrespective of a person's ethnicity, race, skin colour, lanagauge, gender, sexual orientation, or any other way we categorise people. I, you, they - we - are people. Any system not reflecting the balance of that simple statement cannot be allowed to continue in its rut, we have to take steps to restore balance, to the betterment of everybody.

thumbs up Taylor, get in there and talk about the tough stuff!

Taylor! I'm glad you started discussion, I have some thoughts: (explanation: I'm amateur juggler and former 100m sprinter, so sometimes im referring to situation in that sport) 1) I think its the most important to think if gender and age makes any difference in juggling. Both in technical and creative juggling. If physical differences makes fair competition impossible, make separate classifications to make it fair, as competitive sports like running. If not, use open categories like rubic's cube speedcubing. If you cant compare different creative juggling styles, just dont make exact ranking places or base it on popularity. Genders are different and in some cases it unfortunately makes huge difference. 2) Also huge factor is normal distribution and probability. Its possible to find male and female experts in almost all things, but its not same likely because their normal distributions are different. Our bodies and brains works different, e.g. level of testosterone while developing little human during pregnancy changes the way brain structures are made. Brain as biological organ is built differently, so why expect to work the same. Give the same chance, but don't force the same results. Lack of white people in top sprinters is not racist, its just probability. Im not offended that i have never won with any black (sorry if that word is offense to someone) person in 100m race. They have different potential due to different body structure. Its not their fault. Everyone just do their best in their conditions, we respect and we are glad that we can compete with smiles on faces. No one act like victim. 3) Maybe if problem is privilege, not gender, make privilege parities/classifications? Its not perfect, but maybe its closer to make it actually fair and accessible to everyone? 4) What is better in making it fair: helping underprivileged people or make things way harder for privileged ones (like its their fault)? 5) Popularity depends on what people wants to watch. Chess matches are not very popular in TV, football is insanely popular. You can't force people to like something. Its not like 'there's not many chess fans because it's not common in TV' but more like 'its not common in TV because there's not many chess fans'. Presence in media can help, but its not necessary (e.g. there are taboos in countries, when almost everyone knows something even if its never in public media). Not having a reward is not a punishment. Huge amount of our world is based on optimization models. When list is based on popularity, let people decide and don't complain about results, its just what someone wants to watch. 6) And remember that the correlation doesn't mean implication. I totally agree with you, its very complicated and we need discuss it to make some compromise. But remember, we can't blame white privileged men that they seize the opportunities they have. Blame the game, not the players. Ps. Sorry for grammar mistakes - I'm already learning English, so feel free to point some better language solutions.

@TaylorTries

3 жыл бұрын

Hey Karol, there’s a LOT to unpack in your comment, and I sadly can’t address it all right now. But a few key things I can respond to: 1) Yes, gender probably does play a role physically in how a person approaches juggling. We have different bodies, brains, hormones, etc. However many studies have shown that those things do not affect performance or success nearly as much as people try to claim. In fact, I know a few scientists who have studied juggling and believe that women physically have the potential to be better at juggling because of their bodies. When it comes to the brain and hormones, those can absolutely play a part but I think we owe it to ourselves to explore the things we can change and correct those and then make that determination. 2) “maybe the problem is privilege, not gender” Gender is a privilege. If you are a cis man, you have a gender privilege. “make privilege parities/classifications” - yes, that’s literally what this gender quota is trying to do. It’s creating a classification based on the gender privilege. That privilege feeds into so many aspects of our society. And that privilege exists because those men continue to perpetuate that privilege. It IS their fault. And yes, we need to make it easier for the less privileged to succeed. And if that means the more privilege have a harder time, yes. Because they already have an easier time, it’s okay if they have a slightly harder time now if it helps others get on their level. It’s like you were born on third base, and are acting like you deserve to be there while others are starting at bat. And when we try to let others start at first base, and maybe even bring you back to second, you claim it’s unfair because it’s “not your fault”. It doesn’t matter if it was your fault, it’s unfair and ridiculous. And you’re contributing to the problem by being unwilling to change, so it is partly your fault. 3) “not having a reward is not a punishment” - I agree. But rewards can be a big motivator for improvement. And only rewarding one group of people over and over, then acting like the success of that group has nothing to do with external factors, while is ridiculous. We do agree that popularity has very little to do with skill. The problem is when people take popularity and assign it value and power, and use those results to then perpetuate the problem. And in a community where popularity is heavily influenced by gender, I’m sure you can see why that’s problematic. 4) “we can’t blame men for seizing the opportunities that they have” - we certainly can blame them if they actively make it harder for others to have opportunities. Which they do. I’m not asking men to stop juggling so that women can catch up. I’m asking men to stop doing the stupid exhausting sexist things that constantly make it harder for women to juggle. If you stop doing those things, we’ll catch up on our own. But it’s your actions that are the problem, and we need your help to stop them. We can’t stop them for you. 5) “blame the game, not the players” - the game was designed by white guys. How a juggling competition is typically run was designed by white guys. The “reward” was designed by white guys. This list was designed by white guys. What is considered “valuable” in juggling is determined by white guys. Our entire society and structure was designed by white guys. You didn’t even let the rest of us contribute, let alone play, until recently. I hate the game, and I hate the players. And I and many other women (and men for that matter) just want to play our own game but y’all won’t let us because it’s too threatening to your game and you unfortunately still have too much power. So fine, then we’ll keep trying to contribute and change this stupid game you make us all play in order to do anything interesting or worth while in this ridiculous world.

@karol1158

3 жыл бұрын

@@TaylorTries Or make your own game and don't care about this one which you don't like. Or don't play any game and be citizen of a world, connect with nature. You are free. I feel like you are treating me as a part of this 'white man group' - personification of evil and modern society torturers. But i have never make any thing harder for anyone. I always say to do your best and don't look at others. And this keeps me alive. Im white, but im also orphan. So im privileged or not? Life wasn't easy, but i did my best and stayed focused on myself. I was into running, winning some 100m competition, but never when some black dude also was competing. So privileged or not? Then my neurology problems started, so it was the end of sport. So privileged or not? Then i went into programming and now im finishing my MSc degree. Now already probably privileged, right? Juggling is my return to any sports. I strongly recommend it to anyone, i taught many of my friends cascade and then they started to juggle. Its all about discipline and doing your best. Meditation and breath work helps to understand that you are doing all you can, so you don't blame yourself for your fails. This helped me to stop my depression states. I know you struggled with that, so you can let me know what works best for you with that. Cold showers and some move are dope, game-changes :) We can achieve what we want, against the adversities. Its just doing your best and don't look at others. In some point you can start looking, but only for help your environment. But first care about you, because i wouldn't be useful for anyone if i gave up as a kid. I would be only a ballast.

PREACH 👍🏼💯 👍🏼 Well said 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

This is so messed up why are people so mean

Thanks for having the courage to discuss this. Remember triggered people: this is just a debate! :)

@TaylorTries

3 жыл бұрын

Triggered people also remember: this is about a lot of pain and suffering that women are speaking up about. Please listen.

I do want things to be more equal, I just have a problem with the way Luke decided to do this. Taylor you are asking to have an honest discussion which is what I think we need. Luke just made this change without allowing any discussion at all. He disabled comments on the video because he just wanted to force this without the opinions of anyone else. Discussion is good. Forcing others to do things to try to fix the problem the way one person thinks it should be fixed will always create adversity and conflict.

Hey Im so called black according to society. Born In Dominican Republic and I just created a juggling tutorial. i been juggling for a while and would like to do a collab with you or anyone reading this. Ive seen like maybe two people my skin color juggling lol.This is a Global issue. I studied special Education s well and it was the same debate because we are a community that are pushed to only play BASKETBALL, FOOTBALL, GANGS, AND RAP. Would love to have you on my platform or vice vesrsa about this subject. Bye!!

@TaylorTries

3 жыл бұрын

Hey! That’s cool! Sure I’d love to chat with you more about potential collaboration possibilities. If you could email me it’s easier for me to keep track of correspondences there!: Taylor@taylortries.com

I think you hit the nail on the head at 10:29. It is a popularity contest run on social media, which is going to favor those who are the active on and who have access to social media. I think the only way to have a diverse list, independent of people voting for who meets their criteria of the “best”, is a curated list. I see a lot of the push for change to the top X lists in communities being driven by wanting to spotlight creators who don’t get as much attention on social media or who contribute in other ways than pure technical skill, i.e teaching juggling to many young children. I think the list Luke is going for is just different with different intentions, not necessarily more or less fair. As someone who would never make it on the list and who hasn’t followed it too closely, it’s interesting to see how people’s views and the debate around it is changing.

@TaylorTries

3 жыл бұрын

I get what your saying, and obviously I agree with your points. But I can’t help but feel you sort of missed the point. It’s not about the list, or any list. We don’t care about the list. It’s what the list represents and reflects. It’s what any list represents and reflects in an unbalanced society. The inequalities that exist will show up in any list regardless of what your judging criteria are unless we address the inequality itself. And any unbalanced list that is assigned any value (which people sadly do) will be used to further those inequalities and the justifications for them, creating a vicious cycle. It’s the idea that so many guys in our community are more concerned about the list, and still continue to talk about the list, instead of the actual issues going on. That they’re willing to put more thought and effort into how a stupid list works, than they are in figuring out what they’re doing to cause so many problems for so many people and making changes to fix them. It’s a complete lack of understanding, empathy, and self awareness. And its really disappointing.

@NeoNiteo

3 жыл бұрын

@@TaylorTries I have a interest in lists from a statistics perspective, and how a change in rules affect outcome, given the voting population and the voting pool. But, yes I do see your point and your drive to fix inequality. I don’t usually comment on these types of things. Sexism, racism, and the like exist, and though I haven’t been affected by them, I would fight for anyone I saw experiencing it. I heard you say that the majority of jugglers are white men and that may be why they make up the majority of these lists, which I’d tend to agree with. Why white men make up the majority of jugglers, is I think a point you made in this video. I think the best jugglers are the best jugglers primarily because of hard work and dedication, over privilege. I don’t think people should hold these lists to be a reflection of the community as a whole, which I think is one of the most diverse and accepting in the world. We may disagree on a few points, but I do appreciate your passion for change and juggling.

His lists are extremely subjective. They are also based on technical juggling which I think is very close-minded. I juggle because of the creativity aspect & learning new tricks. I'm not a fan of greatest lists anyways. But I think opening the doors to more creativity when it comes to juggling over technicallity would open the doors to everyone on Luke's list. I say "Luke's" List because its just that. Its based mostly on his opinion.

Why cant we just go back to Kindergarten and discover diabolos again not competing just learning from one another and having fun

Juggling is for fun. Although the publicity may be bias, we shouldn't let it ruin the experience. It's sad to see the racism and sexism in this world. "All men are created equal."

@brandontaylor1688

3 жыл бұрын

Go read mlk and u will see how he was vastly against the bs naritive fake ppl keep pushing your not being held back because of your race or sex it’s cuz u don’t work as hard don’t believe me look at labron look at Kevin hart or Dwayne The rock all black all number 1 in there field look at Oprah a billionaire quit making excuses your color has nothing to do with your success

@davidgivins4203

3 жыл бұрын

@@brandontaylor1688 ask the people who were killed because of the race, blacks jews, gays. No chance at success! A lot goes in success including race.

@mattm5242

3 жыл бұрын

@@brandontaylor1688 Did you even watch the video? Taylor explained it pretty well. Almost everything about you can affect your success.

@DrexFactor

3 жыл бұрын

He also said "injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere" or do you only use the MLK quotes that don't require you to examine your own biases?

@davidgivins4203

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrexFactor MLK Jr is not someone I've looked up to. Those leaders not well known I honor more who came before MLK Jr! What you see as injustice some see it as justice because it was done! That quote is stupid that you regurgitated. Try to acquire a speck of intelligence of your own.🤔

Popularity contests are stupid anyway. The main problem is people care so much about them. Of course people with a SM following are going to win. Duh.

@TaylorTries

3 жыл бұрын

I agree. It’s a huge problem that people care so much about them. People use popularity contests to reinforce assumptions and behaviors about people. It sucks. And I also agree people with a social media following are going to do better. And social media is significantly harder for women than men, which sadly means that more men will do well in these lists, and will use that as an example of how men are better jugglers.

@karol1158

3 жыл бұрын

@@TaylorTries Why social media is significantly harder for women than men? Not denying, just asking your opinion

@OriginalBeast

3 жыл бұрын

@@karol1158 I think becasue men don't have to be "perfect" on SM. So many non-looker men have huge channels. Women only get popular if they are hot and do their makeup well.

Idk. Isn’t opposing still discussing. Wether you like the answer or not. And the list was fair. I feel like people are making a problem that doesn’t exist. The NFL is majority African American. That doesn’t make the nfl racist. They are putting the best of the best on their teams. And as far as a majority of just being men. Well maybe because 98% of jugglers are men. So if it’s a list of the top 10. That’s such a low percent of Women that can be put on that list. It’s statistics, not racism or sexism.

You're a good person

This problem exists in virtually every sphere of human endeavor and no-one has a perfect solution. Quotas are always controversial but they have a place and should be given a chance.

I am not familiar with this list or with the juggling community at large. I generally agree with your perspective on this and commend Luke for trying to solve this issue. I watched his video and it seems he is just a guy doing his best. He seems to want to try this for a year and see how it goes. If people have a problem with Luke's list there is nothing stopping them from making their own competing list. You are right in saying this list isn't a skill competition, it is closer to a popularity contest where people on Luke channel just vote. Looking at the 2019 vote video there is only 570 comments (and maybe less votes), which is a really, really small sample size even in a pretty homogenous population. More people have already watched this video than voted in the last poll. The best way to improve the list is to get more votes from more places. KZread comments are not a great place to get votes. KZread skews towards men in general. I am not familiar with Luke or his channel but I am willing to guess his viewers skew towards people like him, white males who juggle in competitions. Maybe poll at every juggling convention or meet or some bigger juggling entity collecting votes would help improve the diversity of the voter base. How many people from your channel do you think are going to go to Luke's youtube video and vote for you? Probably more now because they now know of the list. How many people at a random juggling convention or show who go and have a good time are going to vote for anybody. Maybe like 0-5? You need a better sample or a non-voting way of determining the list if you want better representation in the list. If you Taylor want to improve the diversity in Luke's list run an ad campaign for the 2020 list to as many juggling communities as you can. You have a significantly larger following and could probably increase the diversity by just asking people to vote when the poll comes out. TLDR: Get more people to vote from a more places than one guys youtube video if you want more diversity in a voter base and result. Run an ad campaign for the 2020 vote to get more people voting.

sensitive dudes what can I say.. you usually counter-act inequality with an over-the-top action and slowly revert.. so far it hasn't worked in other fields either like wage-gap

There is an assumption that difference in male/female participation in a given domain is in itself evidence of an unfair condition in need of remedial action. Claims having this unquestioned assumption as a basis are constantly made in our society, presented as if there was no need for evidence, put forward by the dominant cultural mechanisms as if well-reasoned responses to these claims do not even exist (the topic of male-female earnings differences being paradigmatic). It is true that the tiny proportion of the population who are drawn to the juggling community, mostly from an early age, are predominantly male. But there is actually no contradiction between this fact and females also being welcomed and fully respected in this community. Respectfully, I don't agree that the juggling community is a "male bastion" (a phrase that was used in a NYT piece about a woman juggler in the late nineties) - if this means women are somehow being kept out. I know in putting things in this general framework, I'm bypassing the specific question about the specific rule change for the top-forty list. But personally, I don't care much about that list, or even about today's juggling community. Balancing many other things, I keep up with only a tiny few juggling channels, including Taylor's, whose content I enjoy. As for the allegedly thoughtless negative reactions, these too have to be understood in the wider cultural context. Many people are increasingly alarmed by what they see as the imposition of an authoritarian ideology based on dividing up society into oppressor-oppressed, with a hierarchy of oppressed group membership - with any opposition to the juggernaut branded (with usual mind reading) as defense of unearned "privilege". (Kim Iverson, interviewed today on The Backstory [edit: Dec 4], is an example of a person so alarmed). Yes, there are various privileges, as Taylor says, but these do not divide up neatly along the group membership lines advocated by the race and gender "equity" advocates. I truly think it is much healthier for the juggling community to let the statistics fall where they may, rather than chasing phantom problems - healthier for everyone involved, that is, not just the "white males".

I totally understand your perspective and the need for representation of different people in in anything. But to be fair you clearly laid out the counter argument to the point and said it was totally valid but people should just try it anyway. There’s no lack of opportunity for anyone that wants to juggle. There are innumerable free or cheap sources and materials to pursue juggling. So why make identity paramount? And seriously ask yourself if the top tier list was say predominantly black males i.e. basketball, would there be any push for quotas? We already know the answer. That being said I think there should be a women’s list, but special consideration for skin color should be avoided.

I’m stunned that you’ve never come up against such overt sexism and misogyny before. I kind of don’t believe it. It’s everywhere. I think most men, literally, will push back against equal rights. Even the “allies” when it’s on their own turf. It’s something that ruins virtually every online community I’ve ever been part if. There is almost literally nothing more fragile than a male’s ego, hence why they are so insecure.

@TaylorTries

3 жыл бұрын

I’m sorry if I implied I’ve never come up against this stuff before. That was definitely not intentional. I, like you and many other women, have experienced this stuff CONSTANTLY. I was just shocked at how so many guys were so obvious about it so quickly this time. It was just a lot of them showing it at once. I really genuinely thought we’d gotten to a point in the community where guys at least understood there was a problem.

Is there a stat gathered on total number of men:women, white:non-white people who take part in the juggling communities? The top-X always comes from the standard-deviation of each group and how smaller groups don't always have the particular person that extends as far as another group with ten times the numer of people.

@DrexFactor

3 жыл бұрын

This argument is a bit of a red herring. If women or other under represented people see a list that represents itself as the top jugglers and nobody on that list is a person that looks like them then it strongly suggests A. That this is a community that will not welcome them and therefore they should not get involved or B. That even if they do get involved their contributions are unlikely to be recognized or both. This is why, regardless of what percentage of the population of a community is composed of under represented people, that representation matters. A list with more women on it will lead to more women juggling overall and more of them excelling at it.

@OriginalBeast

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrexFactor Who on earth is looking at this list if they aren't already jugglers? I've been juggling for half my life at this point and this is the first I've heard of it. Wish I hadn't cause it's akin to voting for prom king and queen. If you chose your hobbies / profession based on what gender/ race you see doing them, then you're a sad soul.

If you have some examples that are truly better than people rated higher then bring them up specifically and make your case. I’m truly sad to see you falling in line with this ideology because it’s truly evil to put people in boxes and even look at someone race.

Why is there even a list? It is so stupid.

I agree. It’s complicated. Aside from free will there’s so much external forces we’re unconsciously affected by. Aside from what we may think of the rules for top 40 jugglers this year, I’m glad that this issue is being acknowledged. I’ll admit I have privilege regardless of my juggling ability. Due to history, as for those mostly in power, for example, I haven’t felt as much confidence obstacles. Even though we live in a somewhat democratic society aside from the electoral college and the super-rich giving money to politicians, if you’re a white male, you have less to be afraid of, mainly due to seeing people like your race and gender in power, so there’s not as much psychological obstacles inflicted due to history and up until even this point in time. Thanks for acknowledging this Taylor! Aside from anyone who denies this, I admire you for speaking the truth 💪🙏

I’m sure they didn’t deserve it and they should feel bad for being voted for

*what about simply juggling because you just enjoy juggling and are kinda good at it and want to share that experience with others?...*

@DrexFactor

3 жыл бұрын

What about simply acknowledging that experiences outside of your own are valid and having empathy for those who have experienced marginalization?

@scottmantooth8785

3 жыл бұрын

@@DrexFactor *not everything has to be made political...you do not have to be lock step in alignment with someones thinking or opinion to show compassion or understand the point being made...you can be a victim if that makes you happy...where do you go from there...at what point have won?...there will always be an injustice just out of reach that will not respond to focus groups or social media cancel culture...we can respect each other without agreeing totally with the given situation...*

@DrexFactor

3 жыл бұрын

@@scottmantooth8785 Who on Earth is happy being a victim? Well...I mean aside from you, apparently. This isn't politics. It isn't political to be a woman. It is being human...just a different kind of human that you're used to. And if you can't see that then it says a lot about how you see people and your place in them. It's funny you bring up cancel culture in a negative light here...like, that a situation in which women are excluded is totally cool but a situation in which white men are excluded is bad. You might want to take a hard look at the paradox inherent in that.

@scottmantooth8785

3 жыл бұрын

​@@DrexFactor *now you're projecting negativity on my comments where none was intended...the point i'm trying to make is this...gender or pigment allocation or whatever trendy non triggering euphemisms are used today that do not get blocked by AI algorithms are pointless and are in their own way a from of soft racism... and a means of causing further division thus making it ripe for political advocates to exploit...disagreement is not bigotry... insistence that one hold a particular view held by the other or be called a racist or worse would be...*

@DrexFactor

3 жыл бұрын

@@scottmantooth8785 The division was always there. What's changed is that the people that were being marginalized as a result of it are now speaking up rather than being afraid to rock the boat. Leave your conspiracy theories at the door...you're commenting on a video of one such person who is speaking up on the impact those divisions have had on her. Take a minute to actually listen rather than convincing yourself you know better than she does what it's like to be a woman both in the juggling world and the wider world.

As a relatively new 57 year old juggler, I imagine, looking around social media, that I am in small minority. It would be concerning if I were excluded from a club, a list, a school because I was in a minority. To me, it would be crushing to be given a ranking subjective or otherwise ahead of anyone else because I was on a quota. Imagine a top ten consisting of your own favourite 5 in the world, and the top 5 over 56yrs old? Be crazy right?

@TaylorTries

3 жыл бұрын

Ageism is a real problem. But it is not the same as sexism, and it is frankly disappointing you think they are and to see you try to use one to discredit the other. If you, and other people, were born as a 57 year old, and never had the chance to fairly compete with the 25 year olds, then yes I honestly don’t think it would be such a strange thing to factor that into the list. Pretty much everyone will be 57 someday, except the few unfortunate souls who will be taken too soon. Regardless of gender/money/orientation/race etc. We will probably all be 57. The disadvantages you experience because of your age are not things you have experienced your whole life. The disadvantages we experience as women are things we were born with, and have no way of changing unless we address the disadvantages themselves. Ageism is horrible, and I actively work to improve that problem. I listen to the concerns of aging jugglers who feel unseen and left behind. I actively work to improve this community for you and others your age. I’m simply asking you to do the same kindness for me.

valid point, but i believe like other accomplished performers that a "top 40 " list is completely subjective and not reflective of popular opinion in many art fields. The music industry has a "top 40" and is rarely reflecting of a popular likeability. I quote Michael Moschen who made a point that juggling should not be a competitive art in Juggler's World magazine. As for the very volatile gender debate in many artistic fields, My humble opinion is that gender quotas never produce better art. in the comedy world, the best comics are not "male or female" comics. They are COMICS and are judged on ticket sales alone. Many other performing arts would do well to at least look at this tendency. I admire your work, Taylor and I have learned much from you and i can honestly say that your gender never made a difference to me on how to view your work.