The alien is voiced by legendary voice actor Frank Welker who has voiced hundreds of characters from our childhoods which include Dr. Claw in Inspector Gadget, Ray Stantz and Slimer in The Real Ghostbusters, Fred Jones and Scooby-Doo in Scooby-Doo, and Megatron, Soundwave, and various other Transformers throughout the Transformers franchise.

Hundreds of years into the future and there's still that one coworker who just opens any attached files.

I like the episode, but i think it would have worked better as a DS9-story, where the real Crell Moset could have shown up instead of a hologram, that doesn't even know about Mosets crimes.

@Karajorma

Жыл бұрын

Or you could have someone who was trained by Crell but who didn't take any part in the crimes themselves.

@YourCapyBruv_do_u_rmbr_3Dpipes

Жыл бұрын

Oh yeah.. now that really would have been powerful. Nobody could act the hell out of serious scene with a painful history than NV. Well, my opinion at least (and I'm here to say it's the only one that matters, naturally)

The thing that always bothers me about this episode is that it seems like they completely forgot who the hologram actually was literally the second after they created him. It's not a recreation of Crell, it's just a guy who looks like Crell with the knowledge of Starfleet's exobiology database in him. There was literally nothing stopping them from just picking a different guy. Why did it even need to be an exobiologist? They couldn't have just used a random person, or the same image as the doctor? It's not like this negates the conflict entirely, since a lot of the exobiology knowledge they have still came from him, but it's weird that they just treat the hologram as if he is _literally_ a recreation of Crell for the entire episode.

@YourCapyBruv_do_u_rmbr_3Dpipes

Жыл бұрын

Yea..... Good point.

@trazyntheinfinite9895

Жыл бұрын

Jo the weird thing is his data and procedures even being part of voyagers database. So someone thought it was ok...

@Philistine47

Жыл бұрын

Exactly. VOY confuses the image with the object, and the result is that "creating a hologram" effectively becomes "calling up a ghost," complete with supplying knowledge the _Voyager_ crew (apparently!) didn't have access to in any other way.

@trazyntheinfinite9895

Жыл бұрын

@@Philistine47 aye. I bet no bajoean would have objected to Dr Mengele.

@SirMarshalHaig

7 ай бұрын

@@trazyntheinfinite9895 Given what I´ve seen most people on Earth would not object him...I wonder how many don´t even know that name.

This is such a weird episode. Voyager never had any problem using Seven's Borg knowledge, and the Borg have murdered, kidnapped, and maimed way more people than the Cardassians. Heck, Seven would even tell the crew which species certain technology was assimilated from. Although the actor who played Crell was great.

@marshallhuffer4713

Жыл бұрын

The actor's name is David Clennon, and it turns out he and Robert Picardo have been friends for many years with Picardo saying: "I was delighted when he was cast in the show and I got to have those great scenes with him,"

@DrewLSsix

Жыл бұрын

You gotta tell the story in front of you. Maybe Picard or someone else directly effected by the Borg would object to that scenario, the unaddressed part of this is the personal connection to the data in question.

@bthsr7113

Жыл бұрын

Well..... The Borg are equal opportunity assimilators. The Cardassians were very prejudiced in their oppression. Besides, 7 was forcibly inducted into the Borg without any agency over her life. This hologram is the recreation of someone who chose the wrong paths.

@OpenMawProductions

Жыл бұрын

@@bthsr7113 No. They're not. Oppressors are always "equal" in their oppression. Whatever doesn't fit their definiiton. For the Borg that definition is "Not Borg." For the Cardassian? Not Cardassian.

@mikegates8993

Жыл бұрын

I think the main difference is that the Borg's actions are done without malice behind them. They are so devoid of emotion that it's almost the equivalent of blaming an earthquake or tsunami for the damage they caused. The Cardassians on the other hand, do what they do because of genuine racism. It might not seem like a valid distinction, but that could be enough for them to detach the actions of the Borg from their technology, but make it harder to do so for a Cardassian who's body count is likely a fraction of that of the Collective's.

This is one of the FEW episodes where Star Trek did not default to the humanoid. In most episodes, for instance, the most obvious being Scorpion, the writers always sided with a humanoid, or the integrity of the ship. They have no issue killing lower (or non humanoid) life forms when they attach to the ship and drain power. But outside those episodes Picard is preaching about respecting all life to the point of eating "fake" replicated meat.

It's bizarre that they thought they needed to make a Specialist EMH at all, given that all the relevant information was - *had* to be! - stored in Voyager's computer all along. The only thing accomplished by transferring that data to the Specialist EMH was to put it into a format that was more difficult and inconvenient to access. It's even more bizarre that Voyager's computer apparently contained all the data required to recreate the entire personality of the exact person they needed (but somehow *not* the details of what that person's lab looked like)! Judging by this episode, "creating a hologram" is more like necromancy than engineering: summoning ghosts to demand they share their secrets.

@ZipplyZane

Жыл бұрын

Doc just wanted an assistant. The dumb part was not realizing that making him look and act like someone so heinous would be a problem.

@RequiemPoete

Жыл бұрын

​@ZipplyZane Except he didn't act henious. Krelgram acts the exact way described in his biography and other official sources. Which I'm sure thanks to propaganda is as Shiney as gold. Ask the computer to make a replica of Picard and it will make a personality based on all official sources of information. So while you have a Picard program that might accurately recreate a first encounter simulation, but the Picardgram won't know that real Picard enjoys a glass of wine after a night of choking himself.

@elitefencer777

Жыл бұрын

I disagree that creating a holographic personality for interacting with the relevant data is more difficult. Inconvenient, technically yes, but I think it's justified by their difference in fields and professions. The EMH can access facts related to xenobiology, but he doesn't have the experience, perspective or analytical processes of a xenobiologists. (Though, how the computer can create a facsimile of this from anything less than just copying someone's mind whole-cloth is beyond me, since we know its records are incomplete. Operation Space Paperclip?)

@Philistine47

Жыл бұрын

@elitefencer777 Fundamentally, the EMH is still a computer program. A piece of software. _Code._ Apparently it's a self-aware bit of code, because it seems there's nothing easier in ST than creating powerful general-purpose AIs by accident, but still a bit of code. And the _easy, convenient_ way to allow a program to access new data - data which, you'll notice, is stored on the exact same computer that's running the EMH program - is _not_ to run a separate instance of the EMH software which can only communicate with the first at the speed of humanoid speech, because human speech is _extremely slow._ It's to just give the existing instance of the EMH access to the data it needs. The "experience, perspective, and analytical processes" of a Cardassian xenobiologist don't signify unless _Voyager_ somehow, for some reason, has those stored in its computer. Which, I think you'll agree, would be _INSANE._

@ZipplyZane

Жыл бұрын

@@Philistine47 The bigger question for me is how they were able to do that with a simple command, but were later unable to create a EMH when Doc goes to the Alpha Quadrant.

So Sickbay is able to create and sustain two holograms at once? If only they remembered that in, uh... *three* episodes later when both Ensign Kim and Ensign Jetal needed the same medical procedure done at the same time! Sucks to be her, I guess.

@mikegates8993

Жыл бұрын

At this point it's safe to say the EMH technologies capabilities are tied into whatever the plot requires. Sort of like Superman in the Silver Age.

@scockery

Жыл бұрын

If I remember right, many parts of the ship were altered by the Hirogen to be holodecks. Sure it was undone, but it means it was quite possible to expand/upgrade sickbay's emitters. The Doctor can use the mobile emitter, while the sickbay emitters use another hologram. So , yeah, big plot hole.

So glad you were able to reupload this, probably one of my favourite reviews of yours

Memorable one with a new wrinkle in the Doctor's approach to saving a patient. I don't believe medical research can be 'tainted' by the evil things done to get it so I would side with Janeway here. Sure B'ellana was angry but she's been angry before, loads of times... and she gets to live.

@BobNinjaCat

Жыл бұрын

Medical research can 100% be tainted by the methods used to achieve it, and denying that is incredibly disrespectful to those who suffered for it. You're basically justifying torture as a means to study the durability of the Human psyche. Somebody suffered for it and pretending that the results are unaffected by it ultimately negates the ones who suffered to attain those results. The proper thing to do when we use research derived from Human suffering is to recognize first and foremost those who suffered, compensate/respect their suffering, and be mindful when we apply those findings in the real world of the cost that paid. The research is tainted, but at least we are not denying our morality while saving a child from an otherwise fatal diagnosis.

@peytonmac1131

Жыл бұрын

It does raise a question with medicine: if you removed everything that was learned from people suffering, how much would be left? How much do we know that was only discovered by battlefield medics experimenting with enemy soldiers, or apothecaries feeding things to slaves? The ends should never justify the means, but if the 'ends' are already there, surely the least we can do is use them to save others.

@BobNinjaCat

Жыл бұрын

@@peytonmac1131 There have been plenty of medical advances without Human suffering and some even discovered by accident during an operation. These advances would have inevitably come to light without the suffering and it's only because some deranged doctor decided ethics weighed less than their amusement that we got to those points much faster. I'm not going to say we should disregard treatments that work just because we dislike the methods used to discover them, but that we shouldn't pretend that those treatments aren't tainted by their morbid history. We can still acknowledge crappy things associated with something while still indulging that thing.

If Torres thinks Cardassians are killers, too bad she never met the Jem'Hadar.

@mikegates8993

Жыл бұрын

Honestly after this episode, I'd love for her or Worf to meet someone who has a similar opinion of the Klingons given their history.

This Hologram of Krell, it's not the actual guy. They could have just changed his face, his race, his gender, etc. That sticking point will always get at me. Otherwise, this was an excellent episode that had legitimate stakes they couldn't just hand wave away.

@YourCapyBruv_do_u_rmbr_3Dpipes

Жыл бұрын

Yeah indeed, lol.

@mikegates8993

Жыл бұрын

They could've even just had the Doctor access the data. There was no reason they needed a hologram for this in the first place. And if it was just the bounce ideas off of, than why not bring in Tom Paris? Is whatever field of science this guy worked in the only thing that he isn't able to master in an attosecond?

@YourCapyBruv_do_u_rmbr_3Dpipes

Жыл бұрын

@@mikegates8993 lol Agree. It made a good setup, but no independent hologram was necessary, unless it was stated the Doctor wanted another "mind" to interact with

@YourCapyBruv_do_u_rmbr_3Dpipes

Жыл бұрын

@@mikegates8993 Tom, the Diggit Tool of Federation - the human Swiss Army knife He's so versatile, yet portable!

@YourCapyBruv_do_u_rmbr_3Dpipes

Жыл бұрын

Real stakes, and not a total reset at the end.... Wait, this IS Voyager riiite??

Zimmermanns holophoto essays on the Voyager must indeed be as entertaining as Datas poetry recitals is on the Enterprise .

When I started catching Voyager on streaming, this was one of the first episodes I wanted to check out because of my initial watching of this review. And yeah Nothing Human is pretty damn good, one of my Voyager top 10s.

I feel bad for Holo-Crell. Yes, the real Crell was a bastard and a war criminal, but that information was missing from the file Starfleet made on him. It's like blaming the regular characters for what their mirror universe counterparts did. They can't help the fact there's another version of them out there that's a complete dick.

@mikegates8993

Жыл бұрын

Or like blaming a clone for the crimes of the person they were created from, since it's basically blaming someone for the crimes of their parents.

One thing that I wish was looked at in this episode, as well as ones like Tuvix or even Retrospect, icky as that episode feels, is that the crew and captain of Voyager are rarely in a place to debate where lines are drawn when it comes to the personal well being of fellow crew members because they share an intense loyalty and, frankly, trauma bond with eachother, not one of them can look at at situation with a neutral standing. Weather it’s a romantic partner, personal friend, work bestie, or just cold pragmatism being stranded, unbiased judgement is not something that can apply.

Quite possibly one of my favourite episodes of Voyager 😊

I call BS on B'Elanna being critical so they can ignore her wishes. Remember Season 1? DIdn't Janeway and Chakotay argue that the Maquis should be in leadership positions specifically in regards to Chief of Engr. In other words, there is at least one other person that can do her job. Finally, given Seven and Harry and freaking Tom building a freaking warp ship (but they have replicator rations), I am sure even a main character could have taken over in Engineering. Also she is a junior grade (vs full) lieutenant, so how is she the boss anyway?

@nicoleackerman205

Жыл бұрын

Joe Carey can do her job.

Shocked you didn't point out hypocrisy of the Doctor in this episode vs Tuvix. Then he REFUSED to engage the process as Tuvix said no. In this episode he just said ok and did it when Janeway ordered him. At LEAST they could have given some reason why he changed his usually high doctor morals/hypocratic oath.

an angry monkey trying to eat a viberator?! :D

OH RIGHT! This episode. Good episode. I honestly question them deleting a bunch of stuff at the end.

@Jokie155

Жыл бұрын

It's an invalid argument. You're not 'validating' the method by using the research, it's done and nothing can change that. Except of course, for DELETING all the results, which will then open the door for some future sicko to try repeating all the experiments to get back those results. Congratulations, Voyager crew, you just enabled the next Crell Mosset. Except you didn't, because that data only applies to one ship in the middle of unknown space, so it was literally a whole bunch of grandstand soapboxing to appease your own fragile egos. I really despise this episode's moronic ending.

In this episode its kind of messed up that they killed a possibly sapient being (that they just created) because the person that he was based on did war crimes. Guess your not being truly ethical if you don't have a body count apparently.

@dupersuper1938

Жыл бұрын

What gave you the idea that this hologram was sapient?

Janeway: Doctor? Doctor: yes captain? Janeway: make Chaokotay and Kim watch 6 hours of your fine work

Here’s the reality. If we refused to use knowledge of any sort because it came from a questionable or morally bankrupt source, we would still be swinging from trees and eating carrion. All knowledge has a morally bankrupt point somewhere. It’s just the sad reality of it.

its a good ep. then the reset button. that's my main issue with voyager: no lasting consequences. well bad consequences.

They should have made it the real Crell, and put it on DS9, or have it on here and have some reason he would be involved. The former is preferable but I can see clever ways to get Crell onto the ship if you need him. The hologram dilemma is too easily resolved by deleting the hologram.

@jordanloux3883

7 ай бұрын

But there's no reason for the real Crell to be out in the Delta Quadrant except to hide as a wanted fugitive, which would make his criminal past too obvious from the start.

Overall really good episode. Agree with other critiques here. I thought JW was a notch too glib in the ending scene. I would have preferred something a little different. It was a lost opportunity to have a really sweet moment between JW and Torres. It only needed to be a few lines but it could have shown a lot of genuine emotion and an unguarded moment between the two of them in just a few words. Instead Janeway is dismissive and superior. We know she cares, hell she may really love Torres in a genuine personal way but we never really get to see that. This could have been a really nice opportunity for that. Of course Torres is useful, any senior crew member is, and so is all the crew each in their own way, but the ep could have hit a high note by showing that this was far from a solely utilitarian decision for JW- it was personal too. Sure she would have done the same for any crew member, but it would have been nice to see that her decision was just as much based on her personal affection and the bond they they had built up over the past seven years, then the obvious need to retain a chief engineer. Sure, we can all infer this, but it's much more meaningful for me to have seen this shown thru a few lines than just assume it. Whereas DS9 and TNG were brimming over with heartfelt character moments, VOY was really barren and weak in this respect by comparison. Oh they had some, and each one was great in it's own way, but there just wasnt very many overall. This would have been a perfect time to slip on in there. Really wasn't the broader point of the episode but as a coda, I would have much preferred it over what was shown. There wasn't anything wrong per se with JW being brusque and to the point, we all agree she didn't really have a choice (and honestly, is Belanna really willing to die there and then over this?), but they could have done MORE than that. That 'more' is where the magic happens. I'm all for action and plot all day, it's what we're here for sure, but what I _really_ want to see is these people showing who they are not just publicly, which is important of course, but privately, which is what really matters. Those moments are absolute gold and that's what I'm really here for.

I know the Cardassians were basically space nazis, and this episode would be like discriminating against a german person...except he IS just a space nazi...

I liked that the novels bring up Moset during the Dominion War, experimenting on Betazoids to strengthen the Dominion. Though i wonder why the genetically engineered killing machines were being upgraded with telepathy, and not the genetically engineered administrator/diplomats.

Fun fact; even if somewhat useful - the data on how to best re-warm a person exposed to extreme cold? Performed on malnourished prisoners. So... the data points are a little skewed.

Surprised you praised it so much and then didn't give it higher than 7.

Their so "advanced" / evolved that they hate a hologram?????

Considering how boring and underused the main cast is, I'm with Chuck on this one. Bring the evil mad scientist on as a recurring character.

aww man vulcan buuuuuuuuuurn.

i have one issue with this, the voyager crew is perfectly fine using the data seven and later the borg kids have crammed in their heads but hand ring when its one cardasaion mad scienctest. data that seven and the kids freely admit was taken form the ruthless genoside of hundreds of species a great many of whom exist only as drones now. if they had brought up this hypocrisy. that be one thing maybe examon that a great deal of science was founded on or grew from moraly duboules areas and that if we ingored all science that came from something terrable wed never progressed past fire and stone tools

For the algorithm

A couplefew comments to the effect that, since the harm has already been done, there's nothing wrong with using the knowledge. It's not really a question of the folks already harmed, to my mind. Those folks can't be helped, and using the knowledge learned could make their suffering worthwhile... but that last bit is _exactly_ the problem. Ruthless assholes who have no problem sacrificing the few (who aren't them) to aid the many (who may or may not be them) can, theoretically, be dissuaded from doing so if it's agreed that any knowledge gained that way will be destroyed, and the assholes are more likely to take that seriously going forward if you're not using the knowledge the last asshole gained. So, sure, go ahead and use the knowledge gained by Mengele and Unit 731... but don't be _too_ surprised when some jerk decides that a mere billion or three deaths is a worthwhile cost to prevent the human body from wearing out with age.

what sillyness being angry at a hologram that isnt a real thing - just a bunch of light and stuff, just a bonkers idea for an episode.

@lordmontymord8701

Жыл бұрын

Yep, would have loved to see this as a DS9-episode with the real Dr. Moset.

@DeconvertedMan

Жыл бұрын

@@lordmontymord8701 then it would be a GOOD episode.

@andypetrovich2155

Жыл бұрын

I think emotions took over and they were acting in hatred.

I don't know.. 🤔 But anyhow that atrocities got you treatment for others, so the suffering and lives of the test subjects... Will be not save others. 🤔 😬 What's done is DONE. Erasing the works of that butcher... 🤔

As a scientist myself, I hate this episode. Too much to put into a post.

Why didn't they change the appearance to something other than Dr. Space Nazi?! And why must two computers speak only in English? Even the ancient computers of the 1990s could communicate with each other faster ...at 9600 baud. And why English at normal speeds?! Even I can watch a KZread video at 150% speed. Chuck is right. This shouldn't have been a Voyager episode. It belonged on another show. Trying to make it fit here is just stupid. Like a square peg in a round hole. Also, if this was Giger's alien on Voyager, they'd all be dead. Quarantine the unknown and potentially dangerous alien. It's just bad writing all around.

Have these future folk no concerns about parasites or viruses to just beam something weird into the open ship? Is this a melding of the movies Aliens and Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind or am I just as rediculous as these future folk who have not unlocked immortality yet but capture an unknown creature and slap it on a table in a common area? 😂

@mikegates8993

Жыл бұрын

This is such a systemic problem in Star Trek's writing that it feels like they don't understand the concept of safety regulations to that point that when they do it feels out of character.

@kristinfrostlazerbeams

Жыл бұрын

@@mikegates8993 true. Lol

@boobah5643

Жыл бұрын

Point the first: the transporter has 'filters' that prevent diseases from rematerializing. They only fail when it's convenient to the plot, and they have on at least one occasion been used to cure a disease once they'd identified the cause (and thusly added that to the blacklist.) Why they trust the automatically curated blacklist so completely when exposing themselves to novel contaminants is rather a mystery that likely requires a Doylist answer. Point the second: they had a force field around the alien; you can see the field fail (because it was convenient to the plot) during the shot of the critter jumping Torres.

This episode is a good example of why this show sucks so bad. I ended up liking that Cardassian scientist imminently more than almost any other character on the show. When your main cast is less interesting than your one-off throw away characters, ya dun got problems. You're right that he would have made a great recurring character. But instead we're greeting with a pompous holier-than-thou back patting bland moral tale about why it's bad to use their own data because "all Cardassians bad".

Too bad they didnt follow tores wish and murder her irritating character. The show would be much better.

@YourCapyBruv_do_u_rmbr_3Dpipes

Жыл бұрын

Yeah it was strange. Either Berman or Jeri didn't want the show to develop and build on itself. It did a little, but mostly it didn't. It doesn't make any sense. Why create a show but intentionally keep it mediocre???