A Few Condensate Considerations
Bryan teaches the Kalos apprentices about a few condensate considerations beyond cleaning drains. The goal of keeping these considerations in mind is to do quality jobs and not have to return to a job site.
Water from the fan coil ends up draining outside; the condensate goes into the drain downhill and then spikes upward in a trap and then exits the drain. There may be a lot of standing water in the drains, especially when the system is off. The standing water provides a breeding ground for fungi, bacteria, and other undesirable living organisms, making backups even more possible.
Some drains have traps at the unit with a cleanout before the trap and a vent after it; the vent is tall and stays uncapped. If we were to leave the cleanout open, however, air would get sucked into the drain. We can leave the vent open as long as the trap is deep enough to create a seal and allow the column of water to overcome the negative static pressure of the system. Trap size depends on the system, but we typically use P-traps that are a few inches in length. The trap tends to get the dirtiest, which is why the cleanout allows you to flush water into the trap or clean it out with a bottle brush.
Systems with multiple traps are undesirable, but as long as all the traps are sufficient, a water column may be strong enough to travel all the way through. However, air bubbles can form in systems with multiple traps. We often see double traps due to misalignment with the chase pipe, but those are easily fixed by removing the tee and pulling the drain up a bit.
Drains can get nasty buildup if they have a low pitch out of the drain pan. On a horizontal drain line, we try to aim for at least 1/4" of fall per foot of horizontal run. Strapping is also critical to avoid sagging; systems should be strapped at least every 4 feet or so. Sagging can cause double and triple traps over time, especially if the pipework was poorly done in the beginning. The Kalos techs are supposed to find and rectify the double traps wherever possible. If that's not possible, we may have to rely on chemicals to get the hard deposits out of the drain.
The float switch typically goes somewhere near the platform top. In many cases where the float switch is above the platform top, it will only trip if the water level in the pan is also high enough to trip the switch. So, we try to avoid overflowing shallow pans by keeping the float switch below the drain pan's level. Sagging platforms can also cause the float switch to back up, though. At Kalos, we need to learn to quote new platforms instead of holding off on dealing with sagging platforms.
Static pressure can also cause drain issues. High negative static pressure may cause air to be sucked in all over the place, meaning that you get turbulent flow inside our drains. Make sure everything is as sealed as possible to avoid drawing air into the drain where it shouldn't be coming in.
In horizontal applications, poor airflow, platform level, and improper pan installation can cause condensate not to go where it's supposed to go. If the insulation gets saturated, we need to figure out why before we ultimately replace it; we have to check orientation and clean the drain BEFORE we replace the insulation. Whenever you have to tape the insulation (or anything else), clean the surface with rubbing alcohol and microfiber towels first to make sure the surface is clean and will keep the tape fastened as long as possible. Spray glue is a type of contact cement, so you have to spray both surfaces, wait for it to tack up, and then press the surfaces together to form a bond. Whenever you have a horizontal air handler, there also needs to be some overlap with the duct in every direction to keep the horizontal drain pan in place.
When cleaning drains, we have to clean horizontal portions, drain lines, and the drain pan. We should be using brushes, Panduit straps, and everything else at our disposal to get the drains as clean as possible. We should also be looking down the tees to look for signs of drain line buildup and be willing to quote drain cleanings when necessary.
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Пікірлер: 65
Great info! Glad to have a reminder of the foam sheets for insulation.
After 16 years working in Florida I am convinced it doesn't matter if the drain is trapped under the slab of the house or if it's in an attic with good downward pitch. They all clog up. I've seen drains with 1 inch pvc that have 30 degree pitches clogging up. All you can you is clean it as thoroughly as possible and add tablets to slow down regrowth of the bacteria.
I’m a big fan of union fittings. If everybody used a union instead of a coupling every time they had to open the drain, Summer life would be a better place.
@d3adp94
2 жыл бұрын
Preach! I make sure I put them on during installs or maintenance.
@KoolinwithKrauss
2 жыл бұрын
Agreed!! My boss doesn’t agree. Or installers don’t want to install
@Elisummit845
2 жыл бұрын
We, at our company, started putting unions. It helps us out when we gotta deal with something.
@ericsanders4922
2 жыл бұрын
I agree and it take the exact same amount of time to glue on a coupling as it does to glue on a union
Thank you for uploading these little training sessions!
The best video I found on condensate drain. I have a SpavePac 3-ton horizontal air handler in my attic and it has been tripping off every time the pan fills for years. I have had several technicians and 3 different companies out and none of them actually figured out an issue with the drain line, they clean the filter (which I already do), and one of them installed a hard start-up kit on the Trane compressor, which was never the actual issue). After finding that there was not an HVAC trap coming right out of my unit, as shown in the manual, I installed one. I cleaned the line in every way possible. I ran compressed air through the line and sucked it out from the outside with a shop vac. I finally ran two hoses from my attic and flushed from the cleanout I installed. Today, I discovered that a trap is in the basement from where the line comes down from the attic. So my system is double trapped. I will remove the second trap and hope that this thing stops shutting off and drains properly!
Thank you for these videos I try to watch them all.
older guy told me hvac guy are terrible plumbers so thats why drains clog lol thats the logic I used when doing maintenances and explaining to HOs the importance of drains. appreciate this video !
Great video. Vary comprehensive. Thanks Bryan.
Good teacher. This guy is great.
I’m Oklahoma we do traps the other way you showed at the air handler. Makes more sense to me as it’s easier to clean out and less of the pipe is likely to clog.
Good job on the video, especially on the secondary drain pan. Most units in TX are horizontal in the attic. I size drain pans so I can fit not just the unit components but all the drain line, traps, float switches…within the pan.
And he does it again! I wish my Service Manager was this helpful when I ask him about stuff I don’t understand, instead of just saying “does it work? Ok then gtfo!” And bosses wonder why they hemorrhage technicians sometimes.
@seanmathews1826
2 жыл бұрын
Yeah I had a boss like that back in the early 90s when I was a rookie. He acted like he was annoyed that you called him. I never forget how that felt. So now that I have all this experience I try to be as helpful as possible when rookie techs call me for tech support.
@JurassicJolts
2 жыл бұрын
Good name
You are the Best HVAC tubers.
Great video! I'm sure the guy in the video knows this. I found it difficult to explain what I'm trying to say below, but it explains what's going on with drains, traps, and vents. To be clear, the name "vapor lock" might be the correct name used in the trade, but the phenomenon has nothing to do with vapor, and it doesn't really result in a lock. The problem arises if there are two traps within the drain. One you intended on, and another due to pipe sag (I call a, sag-trap). Let's say that each of the two traps in my example result in 3in of vertical water level per trap. With a vent between the two traps, the water entering the vertical pipe before the real trap, only needs to fill to a level of 3.1" (above the trap water level) to move water through the first trap. That same 3.1" of water will be enough to push water through the second trap. The water in each trap is dealt with in order. One, then the other. If there is no vent between the two traps, the two 3" vertical columns of water are connected by air that can not escape. This means there has to be 6.1" of water in the vertical pipe before the first trap in order to build up enough pressure to move the water in both traps simultaneously. No vent means the water in both traps have to move together. This requires higher head pressure to accomplish. Certainly, make sure the vertical pipe leading to the first trap from the unit, can contain a height of water that is greater than the water level in the real trap. If you have multiple sag-traps, that first vent may not save you. Sag-traps are bad!
Thanks for the video. Now there’s an in-line condensate pump with a programmable timer to automate clearing the drain.
This guys a great teacher
@SplooshBlaster
10 ай бұрын
He's a very condescending teacher
@SplooshBlaster
10 ай бұрын
Good info, tho
Love the channel
Im a huge fan of anyone who quotes the movie 'Elf'. MAKE WORK YOUR NEW FAVORITE
Good class.
Excellent explanation of the double trap scenario we have with condensate drains, have you tried to implement the a/c easy tee system for drain maintenance? My Boss has had us using that system for a couple of years and has reduced call backs tremendously and we don’t dread having to cut the line every time we do service
If there is enough head room you can install a large filter media and install a reducing transition back to the the air handler. Like a rooftop curb adapter.
Awesome!
Is just me or is he growing his hair out? Good Video, and thanks for introducing us to Advanced Refrigeration podcast!!
Good stuff
If the blower fan is going into a negative pressure. It could suck the condensation back . It could be holding the condensation in the air handler and then when the blower fan turns off all the condensation flooding back into the drain. Might only have been on commercial equipment like package units.
“I come across as condescending, but it’s just because your condensate is not descending”
22:57 that sums up my life when I took it upon my self to remove and replace all of the ducts ......and insulation in my parents attic.
I like your videos. May I ask; what part of Florida are you located which allows the condensate to be routed to the ground?. South of Houston, any condensate flow to the ground (normally due to a backed up primary drain) will create a swamp along the side of the house. On high humidity days; up to half the A/C energy consumed is for condensation of the water in the air. Air Conditioners here make lots of condensate. The primary drain ties into the DWV piping which can cause another set of potential problems.
@davejohnsonnola1536
2 жыл бұрын
Orlando
Nu Calgon time release pan pads works great/excellent controlling growth in drain pans and traps. I found 99% of a/c systems has no source of controlling growth and this is where the problem starts.
It's all about the basics
I tried using the foam sheets but was a little concerned about flammability.
What size thickness foamboard?
On an installation in Florida the handler is situated upstairs and the 3/4 schedule 40 is exposed for 6 inches before entering the drywall and vanishes down and across to reappear below my ground floor window, it then goes underground and reappears 3 foot away up and is then an elbow. My question is how deep should this pipe be ? This is the trap given it’s a 15 foot drop how deep should it go underground to create the trap 6 inches or more ? Dave
@umeng2002
10 ай бұрын
The depth of the water in a trap doesn't have to be great since the static pressure of the system is usually like 0.5 inches of water. That's why a trap with only two inches of water is fine. Technically, as long as the water column in the trap is more than the total external static pressure of the system (using inches of water for pressure), the trap will seal and water will flow out when the system in running. If your drain line goes under your slab, the trap would be more than good enough.
💪🏼
So why do you guys do the p-trap like that? Underground
Good reminder to tired older techs and newbies in FL but despite half hour runtime not even a mention of heat pump drains or the wonderful world of dozens different designs on furnace and tankless drains. Not even a mention of the condensate pumps and how 99% of service guys never clean them either.
👍
In Chicagoland. Residential equipment evap coils are ahead of blower/ operate in + air pressure. Besides putting a clean out T, we don't trap such drains. Is equivalent set up different in FL? Why would an open drain on + pressure need to be trapped??
@michaelmailheau1511
7 ай бұрын
Hi, I saw a you tube video on this...look around you tube... But the reason is you DO install a trap : to trap air from blowing out of the unit.....so + or - pressure you must stop the air flow...trap deep enough to create a trap seal and condensate will flow...*note* needs to be refilled with water after cleaning
@michaelmailheau1511
7 ай бұрын
Oh also vented after the trap seal
SEE THE GOO TIP: During your service call - take a “very bright” flash light and hold it directly on the trap…chances are high/good you’ll see the goo in the trap as the light will expose the debris (think x-ray). Want to find “the wedding ring that fell down the vanity drain?” … take the flash light and hold it directly against the vanity trap…now run water through the trap while holding the light. Give it a try. Obviously, you could simply dismantle the trap - but the light trick is pretty quick…
My man using that finasteride, flowing lochs of hair. Instantly becomes a better tech
Let me start out by saying that I enjoy watching your videos. Watching this one on condensation ,I disagree with your statement on saturated insulation in air handler .To advise removing and replacing with foam board is correcting one problem and creating a potential larger problem. Foam board is highly flammable. Afire inside cabinet from a motor would ignite foam board and potentially create a structure fire. Explain that to insurance company. Technician just voided UL listing of equipment. Insurance company denies claim.
0:09 - Better condescending than condensating, right?
Three rules of plumbing.
Hello l need to guide me to best software hvac for my company
Lizards and snails even tiny mice or bugs can get in there and clog it as well happens all the time specially in Florida now if you don’t have a trap you’ll get clogged even faster more likely. I don’t think the snails but definitely the lizards he even a tiny snake?
Thanks again for the videos. 🍺🍺🍺🥃🥃⛳🎳 Stay safe. Retired (werk'n)keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses!
Sometimes condescension is required!
Why do you have a trap? As far as I know, in Australia we run condensate downhill to ground. Definitely in small split systems.
I'm confused... Didn't you not have hair??? Lol
Too condensating .
Simple ==> up flow ( furnace on the bottom) creates negative pressure and sucking the air from the drain line, therefore, condenser water can’t drain out from the condenser pan. Down flow ( furnace on the top) creates positive pressure and hot air will blow out from the ac coil drain hole to the air when turn on the furnace. Conclusion: All the Ac need to have p trap to block the air suck in or blow out from the AC drain hole. Am I right ? Please advise, thanks.
Excellent explanation of the double trap scenario we have with condensate drains, have you tried to implement the a/c easy tee system for drain maintenance? My Boss has had us using that system for a couple of years and has reduced call backs tremendously and we don’t dread having to cut the line every time we do service
@michaelmailheau1511
7 ай бұрын
Like the EZ Tee system, it gives you access and has the blow out fittings to direct the vacuum or air ....check it out google it