The real reason I watch RMC is to see a man living his best life.

@RMCRetro

Жыл бұрын

I try! Thanks for peeking in at me

@pablorai769

Жыл бұрын

I agree 100%, even if it means a man's best life implies washing away pigeon poop from an old PC!

@HL2Striker

Жыл бұрын

@@RMCRetro I honestly admire your approach to this badly damaged board. I wish you and your people who are working on this the best of luck and success for this project!

@SenileOtaku

Жыл бұрын

@@pablorai769 Sounds like an episode of "Dirty Jobs".

@andrewbutler9533

9 ай бұрын

Hate that phrase, but you're right! Stumbled on this channel after watching Alex's for ages. What they do between them is fantastic! Wish I lived closer to the Cave - I'm based up north unfortunately. Bonus though, I'm close to Arcade Club, so I can't complain too much 👍

"We don't have a time machine yet - when we do, this channel's really gonna go places". I love the idea of Neil solving the conundrum of time travel just to bring back some non-yellowed Amiga parts.

@CptJistuce

9 ай бұрын

Man, think of all the insanely rare hardware he could pick up at bargin-bin prices in clearance racks.

Reverse engineering that board is a perfect solution which the whole community will benefit from. Excellent idea! And I can't believe how great that case came out, think I need to get some of that UBIK 2000 for my next shower.

@LondenTower

Жыл бұрын

Well, Tech Tangents actually reverse-engineered a CD drive controller a while ago. so if TT can do it, maybe he and RMC could work together to make it work for the Commodore PC10/20

@Ragnar8504

Жыл бұрын

@@LondenTower There's been a large number of those RE jobs recently, some a lot more complex. The think thank over at the 68k MLA forums managed to reverse engineer several Macintosh logic boards from the late 80s and those are four-layer boards, so considerably more complex. They're also working on modern replacements for as many of the custom chips as possible. Absolutely amazing!

I audibly chuckled when you revealed the case after the wash. What an insane improvement!

I was gonna offer to slog through the board level repairs because I'm a sucker for punishment, but I think the board RE and recreation work is a much better option! Looking forward to seeing the results.

@DrBovdin

Жыл бұрын

In the state it is, it is probably the most sensible use for the original board. In the end, despite maybe never having been used for its originally intended purpose, it will still serve a higher purpose. After the RE it can still be a nice static display (especially since it only has two layers, no destructive disassembly is needed).

@MrDuncl

Жыл бұрын

I spent many hours repairing a Casio CZ101 synthesizer where the D cell batteries had leaked onto the PCBs. The problem was it never stayed working. Every time I thought I had fixed it a new problem would occur a couple of months later.

Rather than a "wrap", I suspect that was a vinyl layer bonded to the raw sheet metal before it was punched out and bent into shape.

@davidvaughan9547

Жыл бұрын

I believe you are correct. At the manufacturer where I work, in the past we used to fabricate aircraft interior parts using a variety of the same material.

@michaelsharman8988

Жыл бұрын

@@davidvaughan9547 The material for the case is just vinyl coated sheet steel. It usually has a rust resistant electroplating property too, it would only likely rust at edges and holes. I'm sure I have a working one in my garage somewhere, I think I replaced the battery too.

@MrDuncl

Жыл бұрын

I was thinking the same. In the 1970s and 80s Electronics shops sold numerous project boxes made out of the same kind of steel. You could even get woodgrain ones for LGRs ancestors. edit I was trying to remember what I used such a woodgrain box for. It was for a RTTY (radio teletype) interface for my MSX computer so they were obviously still around in the 1980s. Aluminium boxes were nicer but about three times the price.

A collab with Rob and the A500++ team would be amazing. I've designed boards in KiCad for my own projects but nothing near as complicated as a motherboard. And seeing the entire process of recreating a retro motherboard from old scrap would be a real treat.

Back in 1990 when I started my university course, Barclays bank had a student deal to purchase a PC via a low interest loan. This was therefore my first PC and over the next four years I added a Soundblaster, 3.5 inch floppy and replaced the hard drive with a whopping 170mb model. There was one major downside which was that when the main board cooled down when powered off, the CPU chip popped out if its socket. The repair guy for Commodore told me this was a common fault and showed me how to fix it by simply clicking it back in place. So for several years the Commodore PC lived without any screws in the case as the lid was popped off on a regular basis. However it got me through four years of an international IT degree which led me to a successful career so flaws or not, there is a special place in my retro heart for this PC. Thanks for featuring it Neil.

I have a perfectly working Commodore PC30-III (a 286 machine) that my father bought it in 1989. It still looks like it's brand new and I even have the original receipt from Dixons! I do not remember the casing having some sort of vinyl layer on top of the metal, so it might be just a PC20-III thing I guess? Thank you for the nostalgia! I'll fire up the old beast tonight :)

@rosstee

Жыл бұрын

Better check the battery!

@Oguz286

Жыл бұрын

@@rosstee Luckily it has a Dallas DS1287 RTC chip that houses the battery inside, so it cannot leak. But since it was dead after 34 years, I bought a replacement with a coin cell holder on top of the chip :)

@Oguz286

Жыл бұрын

@@virtualworlds8081 The employee at Dixons asked my father if he was a banker or a scientist when he bought the computer and was surprised when he said that he bought it for me (when I was 3 years old). That's why I'm never selling it :D

I love the solutions you come up with Neil in the face of adversity. Love retro, love this channel. And so interesting. Great work!

@RMCRetro

Жыл бұрын

Hey thanks so much! Where there’s a will there’s a way 👍

This is going to be AWESOME! I can’t wait to be able to buy one of those boards off those chaps, once they’ve gone though the process of reverse engineering the board. I might even have some advice for some really simple, but very interesting modifications: - floppy controller disable jumper - the obvious CR2032 mod - mine has a very bad quality composite out. I don’t know if it’s just my board, but that schematic could be improved a bit. - and while we’re at it, perhaps just replace the horribly obscure XTA interface with the now common XT-IDE interface. Great job on that mint case Neil!

When I worked in a school, I used to "borrow" a cleaning chemical called MP9, that the cleaners would normally have used diluted for cleaning the floors. I used it neat on computer cases - the best result was a badly-yellowed early-style BBC Model B with permanent marker writing and stickers on it, which came out looking like brand new.

I'm in the states, wishing I was living down the street of the 'cave'. I just love your efforts and videos. Thank you for all the effort and letting us live vicariously through vids like this.

@RMCRetro

Жыл бұрын

My pleasure, thank you for making the effort to follow!

Technically speaking it is not 'vinyl wrap' but it was 'vinyl coated sheet steel' which was stamped and folded to make the case. I would carefully glue it back on wherever it has come loose!

What a cool restoration, love the concept of a new board and salvaged parts.

"Met Jackson Pollock" - Love it 😂 I'm impressed and appreciative of sacrificing the board to create a replica from it.

This was not the worst thing i found from the barn that we found. Shame its dead but good idea about making a board for everyone elce to use that really makes me smile

Its great that no matter the challenge or the obstacles in the way, you always remain positive and optimistic. Can't wait to see where this project leads.

“Ubik ... Safe when taken as directed.”

Love all the reverse engineered motherboards being done in the retro gaming community. I do a lot of Game Boy builds with community motherboards. Feels good saving components and giving something new life for many years to come. Can’t wait to see how this all turns out! Cheers!

@johneygd

Жыл бұрын

I do believe that he is indead a good technician,if only he will tell that this video is part 1 of the rest of it,damnit.

This turned out to be much more interesting than I would have guessed. Thanks for all the effort!

If it makes you feel any better, that's not a dead spider. That's what's left over from when a spider shed its skin. (Which means that somewhere in this computer there is a naked spider.)

Highly enjoyable episode! The anticipation for seeing the condition of that Commodore, and your solution to the restoration is a 10/10 Neil. Get your new old stock new again, and put that ability into the hands of others in the community. HELL YES!

Wow, the prospect of a brand new PC10/20 board is amazing! Thanks to all the guys involved! The Commodore PC clones never got much attention, so this is much needed and a great initiative! Cheers! Looking forward to that!

9:02 I'm always amazed how it is possible that so little acid / base from battery can spread that far, because as far as I'm aware there is not so much of that stuff inside battery.

@Breakfast_of_Champions

Жыл бұрын

It's got a million little feet to crawl into the tightest spaces. On a board like this it's even inside the chips.

@hjalfi

Жыл бұрын

You should see what mercury will do to aluminium. There's a reason it's so thoroughly banned on aircraft.

@kaitlyn__L

Жыл бұрын

The salts (green crusty) are often themselves corrosive, so corrosion can spread like a fire where it only needs a little starter incident to spread across an entire area

It feels like and age since I've seen one of these videos but I'm always glad to see one. I loved to see the new old stock item

@RMCRetro

Жыл бұрын

Now I have the lab I can do lots more!

@GerardKean

Жыл бұрын

@@RMCRetro I look forward to it

So many potential innuendos. Must be good. This barn find looks like the Computer Reset trove from a few years ago, but even more of a mess. What a find!

Stopped in because I recognize that case. In Australia it was used for the Commodore COLT which was an 8088 with monochrome only down here. I learned what a DIR command was on that machine when I was about 8!

It takes me back to when a pigeon broke through the roof of our printer room. The printers were covered in poop. Fun times.

Nice to see a Commodore PC getting some love. I use a PC40-III that fortunately doesn't use a dreaded barrel battery, but instead uses a Dallas chip (which is bad for its own reasons, but at least it won't likely burst)

I think the final decision with the MB was the best one, good call Neil.

The case looks brand new! Shame about the traces, but I'm intrigued to see what happens with the "modern" board.

@danyoutube7491

Жыл бұрын

It looks really smart doesn't it, I think he is probably right in suggesting it is new-old stock rather than a used machine.

You got to get back into your retro shop I have been waiting months for a part 2

@RMCRetro

Жыл бұрын

Oh ok! I can do that

I had one of these on my desk at work in the early 1990s. I was left on my own for many days at a time and there was often nothing to do... For entire days one summer, I did nothing but make cups of tea and play "Crystal Caverns" by Todd Replogle... Happy memories!

When I saw the board in the middle of the video, my first thought was that designing a replacement board would be faster/easier than fixing it. Guess I wasn't the only one with that idea :)

I would be willing to bet that the vinyl wrap of the case actually happened before it turned into a case. Straight onto the sheet metal, before the parts were stamped.

I painted roger deans barn & his mums flat😂 my claim to fame! Was a Long time ago though maybe 20 years, he was a nice bloke 👊

That case looks stunning after removing the... you know what. I think it's a great idea to replace the board rather than fixing all those traces :) Looking forward to see how this goes.

Stunning restoration Neil!

I think with this wonderfully satisfying episode, the new lab fully up and running, the connections with teams of helpers, not to mention new batteries in the multimeter, you have finally supplanted The 8-Bit Guy as my favourite KZread channel!

Wow, that brings back some memories, my parents had one of these for thier business! I think they still have it in thier loft with matching mono monitor.

Lovely! I can't get over how well that case turned out! Also, so looking forward to seeing Chrissy and Rob's work in a future video ! Let me know if I can help in some way too.

That's fantastic news to hear that Rob and Chrissy have agreed to reverse engineer the PC-10/20 board! If I were taking on that task, I would change one thing for modernity: Replace the Paradise PCV4 chip with a VGA chip and the associated port on the back of the system. Externally, it would blend right in.

@weepingscorpion8739

Жыл бұрын

Normally, I'd agree but I believe the PCV4 support the Plantronics video mode which while really rare is just a cool thing.

@Ragnar8504

Жыл бұрын

Are the DB9 and VGA connectors the same physical size? Otherwise you'd have to enlarge the hole in the case. They might be though.

@JVHShack

Жыл бұрын

@Ragnar8504 They are the same physical external size. I have used a card slot bracket with a hole for a DB9 port on a few VGA cards that were missing that part.

Great video Neil . Amazed how great the case looked after u cleaned it Roll on part 2

That's a lovely looking thing (without the bird poop). The Acorn A3000 clone PCB looks fantastic - it would be great to see more of it at some point. The repair service sounds like a retro-lover's dream come true - I have a poorly Acorn A3010 that needs a bit of love.

I have a number of pc10/pc20 with battery damage like that, i will happily buy some replacement pcb boards to get them working again.

"The Pigeon Poop PC", now THAT is a name fot a thematic pop-music album.

I agree with the board approach a brand new board is much more viable and a permanent fix will aslo give opportunity to improve ground plain battery socket and other minor quality of life improvement can even silk screen some cool stuff on board and mark it replica motherboard for serial number specific to the original polish up the original board and coat it for use as the mouse pad. So many ideas come to mind.

Good GOD man you have excellent taste in music, the track at the beginning was a BOP!

🎵Are you keeping up with Commodore? Becouse the Commodore is keeping up with you...🎵

I love this project! Keep it going!

Shame about the board Neil, great that a new replacement PCB is on the cards, that will be awesome! Amazed how clean that case came out. I'll be ordering some of that cleaner!

What a most excellent idea to get new PCBs to save these PC10/20 commodores!!! My hat is off to you good sir!!!

Man, that SOTB2 box and shirt brings back memories to when I bought that. As for the damaged board repair... that was my fulltime job for 15 years. I would get entire boards from the electronics I repaired that were covered in waterdamage. I needed to remove most of the main surface mounted components and would spend hours repairing 100's of traces and feedthrough holes, etc before even turning it on to know if it would ever work. These were older automotive computer control units that were no longer available... so if I didnt repair them... then anyone with that car was out of luck.

Fascinating video. I never had much interest in Commodore PC (as opposed to their wonderful Amigas, even if they did “mess it up” (sanitised version) in the eyes of the original Amiga developers), but I’m glad I clicked on this one.

Hi Neil .I've a spare motherboard for the commodore PC . Ive spoken with Rob and ill send it to him for you ;).. love the video looking forward to seeing it boot .. ill get down at some point to see you all too . Regard Steve

You always find the way to keep us longing for more. XD

Sounds like a great project. Look forward to future videos.

I absolutely love these sorts of videos!

You could also potentially send it to the youtuber Epictronics. He's managed to strip down a Commodore PC10 motherboard that was pretty badly corroded and fix all the traces. However there's still some kind of issue with the board that he's trying to diagnose.

@RMCRetro

Жыл бұрын

I did come across his series and it's a monumental effort, recommended viewing. Hopefully the recreated PCB can help people who don't have the skills and patience to pull that off.

I think the PCB is destroyed. But making a new PCB from it seems the only conceivable solution.

Neil, the harder it is, the more people will watch and be interested. I'm sure we all have lost causes that we would love to bring back but you are showing us is it possible, good luck!

Oh... that board is what I call a "challenge" :D

Wonderful idea. Would love to see the PC40-III reproduced also. I'd gladly solder one up. Wonderful clean-job.

That's mine! But seriously, I owned a PC20-III with associated color monitor which I bought for $300 as a brand new open box special at the RAF Lakenheath USAF BX. I don't know what I eventually did with it, but I did leave the UK with it.

I can't remember ever seeing cardboard backed games. My peak for buying cassettes from WH Smiths was around 1983 ish. Then I ended up at more smaller shops who I don't think stocked these. Even so, in the 90's I remember lurking around possibly hmv or similar and can't remember them there either. Guess I've just forget.

I’m getting flashbacks to my Amiga 500+

At two minutes in the shop there's a glimpse of 'Chronos' for the ZX Spectrum - my favourite game when I was about ten! I managed to complete it but only by using a cheat code I saw in magazine which involved typing 'Jing it baby' into the high score table.

Oh, you must be referring to the bespoke sustainable organic vegan case finish. Commodore was so progressive!

@BubbafromSapperton

Жыл бұрын

Back then the case colors were regulated by law eg black wasn't allowed...

What a wonderful idea. How fortunate to have some dedicated enthusiasts, who are obviously very knowledgable, to rescue this lovely PC and others like it. I enjoy your videos so much. 😊👍

Great Project! 👍🏻

I was in a place (circa 1990) that had a Commodore PC-1 and an Amstrad PC1640. Brought my old Speccy in one day and hooked it up to an Amber (Cub) Monitor 😊

Yes! I was hoping someone would eventually make a PC10/20 repro board :)

Send it to m... Sorry couldnt resist that 😅 You're absolutely doing the right thing. Given the extent of damage, that boards too far gone but using it as a means to create new replacement boards is a great idea. I just hope your custom chips are good. Loved the commodore naming of their custom mos chip, felt like a little influence from the Amiga world.

5:59 I noticed a spider? Moving very fast towards Neil's hand. The dangers of restoring old computers are real...😂

This is a great story, Wonderful :)

18:10 I was just thinking that this would be a good candidate for somebody making a new revision board, shipping it to PCBWay to make, and stripping the parts to swap over.

I had a 10-III in the late 90s when I knew next to nothing about using PCs and ended up giving it away. I bought it pretty cheap from a fellow who had it since at least 1992. Later on, looking up photos of the 10-III confused me as I assumed the 10 referred to the series rather than the standard equipment. In my high school chemistry lab--which I was in maybe once because I didn't take chemistry--there was a 40-III which likely belonged to the chemistry teacher as I heard there was a teacher who collected Commodore PCs. Incidentally I saw another Commodore PC perched atop a file cabinet in another lab I had no classes in. This was also in the late 90s, while I was asking around for Apple IIe software because I wasn't yet acquainted with the internet. I had finally gotten my mitts on a platinum IIe with twin drives and a monochrome monitor that had been sitting unused in my grade 10 English Workshop classroom for a long time. It wasn't easy; teacher didn't want me touching it and my VP brushed off my request, but I persisted until the principal agreed to sell it to me for peanuts. Years later I would run into him at a Starbucks where he recognized me instantly for that very reason. Actually I went through him for three retired IIe systems total, the other two earlier models with DuoDisk drives and colour monitors.

Oh, I prepared quite a few Commodore PC's to customers specs when I did my internship at Commodore Scandinavia back in 1985.

Wonderful place you got here. I enjoy watching your work. It makes me feel good. Cause I've never been technical myself. I can watch you 😅 thank you. I notice the unit was made in West Germany! Those were the times having a Commodore computer!

I work in sorting centre here in Finland, we disassemble old electronics mainly computers. It is 2023 and still every week there is TENS of old 286/386, Macintosh, 80's servers, Nintendos, Segas, even one Commodore 64 (no Amiga/Ataris yet... thanks God) I have seen waiting to scrapped. It is not allowed to save those machines because they are assets of some global company. IT IS HEARTBREAKING! And then people complaining there is no anything interesting on thrift stores or 2nd hand market stuff is expensive, it is because there goes old tech to scrap metal every hour in the world. If that is situation in small country of Finland, imagine the bigger countries. I understand scrapping the nowadays PC's, digiboxes, DVD players, it doesnt move me, but the antique machines... every kind :( those are very well made machines too, "Made in USA", "Made in Ireland", "Made in Germany", "Made in Finland" .. instead of "Made in China" of today's crap. Most people doesn't care, they care about their "smart phones" much more. One guy even said "so what, who wants these old pieces of crap?". That is the way to make the remaining antique machines rare and valuable. Those who understand, understand. I think this same system goes for every old item the last 3 decades, they are just throwing away / recycled as they say. Not available for common people ... for fun and hobby.

There was something about that mouse port. At some point in the late 80s, early 90s, my father had bought a PC-10. I remember that there was a problem connecting a mouse, because by default it wouldn't accept a serial mouse. At least, I think so; this is 30 to 35 years ago. I checked the manual, found what needed to be done, and wrote a little piece of assembler code using `debug.exe`. This solved the mouse problem. Later, in a Dutch-language personal computer magazine (that was actually its name: PCM, Personal Computer Magazine) that we read, one reader asked a question about this very problem. So I wrote them a letter (!) with my solution. Of the people that answered, my answer was the most detailed, and so I was given a book voucher.

Surely not new old stock Neil. The fan in the powersupply has obviously moved its fair share of that beautiful nicotininduced brown dust, that we all love seing in retro electronics.

really enjoyed that neil cant wait for the next installment

Great idea making a brand new board thats a great idea!

I was just going to say "get a new pcb made and populate it with salvaged and new parts"...

Recreating the PCB is a fantastic idea.

Love the Channel, But this is the Most interesting Story/Idea for me, currently having a working Commodore PC20-III (no keyboard, Dead HDD) i'd love to see new boards to keeps this baby alive.

Hope to see it up and working. I love trying to get back boards from the brink. Did a Panasonic CF-270 laptop on my channel. Smothered it in vinegar annd had great fun fixing traces and components to finally get a post screen was joyous.

Great idea neil i know that problem is very common with those line of commadore pcs

I really enjoy this idea, almost like a Retro-mod instead of refurbishment. At least the board can still be used to learn. Case looks fantastic.

That cleaned up nicely!

Excellent final choice here, Neil et al. :)

Finally RMC has something in common with another KZread channel I follow (Rebuild Rescue) in that you both work on machines covered in bird and mouse droppings. Otherwise I have to question whether that chemical could be an alternative to retro-brighting? It certainly seems a lot more effective than the normal car soap treatment. Maybe it would be worth trying with some of those cases that came out a bit yellow despite being through a retro-brighting process.

@Charlesb88

Жыл бұрын

Given that the yellowing in certain plastics is the result of UV light exposure, I doubt any industrial cleaner would work as a substitute for hydrogen peroxide (retro-brighting) Hydrogen peroxide works on different mechanism then industrial cleaners.

“A pebble dashing of guano.” Oh my does that need to be a t-shirt 🤣

Epictronics has done a series out of repairing a board with extensive damage similar to your board. It was a fascinating series and a clear demonstration of patience and tenacity.

@RMCRetro

Жыл бұрын

It’s a great series. Hopefully a reproduction board will help those without his tremendous skills

I remember the Indi store I worked in getting the Commodore PC range in. Whilst most looked the same, the PC-1 was very different. A smaller footbrint, around half the height, a plastic shell, and non upgradable.

That case looks mint and you are right lets see it working with a new board inside and a tank mouse, commodore mouse mat and keyboard and their famous monitor. 👍

I've seen MUCH worse damage where the battery acid ate away even the board, delaminating it. However, the traces were so thick, no damage at all! Just looks scary and I kept it. A 386sx from an oem machine. I only had to wire in a new AT Power connector on wires because some of the traces are too loose to attach power on the board itself.

16:07 Holy crap that looks so much better!