A playlist of videos covering the issues with the BBC and transphobic reporting: kzread.info/head/PLmWFOeT2jEofVIDW9X3OL7GqWuX3Dxopu

@highfive7689

Ай бұрын

Overall... I liked the episode. Storytelling was a ghost story horror, not bad. ( A feel like "In the Company of Wolves" film - Highly recommend it.) Saying it, I have to ask why did the Ruby get abandoned by the Dr.? Why land the Tardis near the fairy circle? We've spoken in the past how the Tardis seems to materialize into time spaces that have either a historical error and need to be corrected, or an Ex-Deus situation, like alien invasion in an important era on Earth. Happened often without the Dr.'s input. What was the repetitive signing that the Phantom Ruby was doing? Who made the original fairy circle? Maybe it's the second time the Dr. and Ruby were there and Dr. encountered a paradox that cancelled him. Ruby is then abandoned that second time. Here's the thing the Tardis remained time-locked through out the episode. The escape-hole for her and the Dr. if everything goes South is locked-out. I'm going to extend an idea and it is to say they are not in normal time space in this season of Dr. Who, but in the Toymakers alternate dimensional pocket universe. Recall Romana and her decision to stay in E-Space pocket universe. A lot of talk lately of Elon Musk and his thoughts of us in a Holographic universe. Our show-runner might be heading in that direction. As for 73 yrds it's the length of the Soccer field in which the Man was in to get the codes. The length from Marty to the Man in the original time line in that important moment? As for Susan Twist - think Matrix the black cat scene.... 😉

After this episode my partner had the only good theory about Susan Twist, that she's the elemental manifestation of red herrings

@AuroraButterflyx

Ай бұрын

Won’t surprised if she either a red herring or a very important character, like no in between lol 😅

@AH-vm8yo

Ай бұрын

​@@AuroraButterflyx maybe she's the one who waits she's been waiting across all time and space.

@SarcyBoi41

Ай бұрын

That would actually be genuinely amazing

@mirawest8510

Ай бұрын

@@SarcyBoi41 Oh yeah I wasn't kidding when I said it was a good theory. Yes it would be very funny but it would also be thematically consistent with 73 Yards, a supernatural phenomenon that isn't inherently antagonistic and just... exists

@404maxnotfound

Ай бұрын

I would love if the episode 2 "there's always a twist at the end" is referring to susan twist and that's as far as it goes. Just some magical after effects caused by maestro getting trapped like in the way toymaker got trapped which caused there to be a literal twist following them around.

Did anyone else notice how every decade the number of birthday cards on her window ledge got smaller? It was a nice detail.

@mrcritical6751

Ай бұрын

Guessing some of them were from her band friends and Cherry. Honestly I wanna know how Cherry felt about the whole situation, can’t see her being all too happy with Carla ostracising Ruby from the family

@Jansenbaker

Ай бұрын

​@@mrcritical6751 Ruby actually said on one of her calls, "C'mon, Gran's calling you everything."

@mrcritical6751

Ай бұрын

@@Jansenbaker that was early stages, when Carla had ran off. I’m more talking after she changed the locks

@Jansenbaker

Ай бұрын

@@mrcritical6751 Ah, like what did they say between each other? Yeah. Interesting.

@Yan_Alkovic

Ай бұрын

I did! My partner didn’t, though, I had to explain that lol

Have you noticed that a lot of stuff this season seems to revolve around either Ruby or the Doctor carelessly stepping on something? Ruby stepping on a butterfly. The Doctor stepping on a landmine and then the fairy circle. They need to be more careful about where they put their feet.

@saphcal

Ай бұрын

oh god, thats gonna be a thing isnt it. thats far too often to not be intentional...

@kellygingrich4302

Ай бұрын

I was wondering if this was also a weird inverse take on the butterfly effect bit because the stepping was so intentional

@AlastarRevancrow

Ай бұрын

So what you are telling me is the one who waits is going to be a cockroach that one of the cast members stepped on their significant other thus waiting to make their ultimate revenge by going Kaiju sized…oh wait that is Doom Patrol

@darkmateria2486

Ай бұрын

The whole supernatural thing started with the other Doctor and Donna stepping through the line of salt in wby

@lordhoot1

Ай бұрын

Inverted when Ruby deliberately stepped across the sidelines at the stadium

This was Millie Gibsons first time on set as Ruby and only 18 years old. How crazy is that since she absolutely nails it.

@unclegumbald989

Ай бұрын

She was absolutely FANTASTIC in this episode! I felt “fine” with her the first couple eps, but I think she’s absolutely smashed it for “Boom” and “73 Yards”.

@fadikhoory5350

Ай бұрын

She's a year younger than when Deborah Watling played Victoria.

@Elwaves2925

Ай бұрын

Which I believe makes her the youngest actor to play a companion, beating Matthew Waterhouse by a month from what I've found.

@CarysCantDance

Ай бұрын

Dame Sian Phillips (the lady in the red hat in the pub) was 89 when they filmed the episode. She just turned 91 a couple of weeks ago. I wish we'd seen more of her. I loved her interactions with Ruby. I'd love to know how Millie felt, not only working on this iconic show, but also working with such a legendary actress on her first day.

@unclegumbald989

Ай бұрын

@@CarysCantDance When Ruby started wearing those glasses as she aged, I thought she was gonna end up as the woman and the pub 😂

This might sound weird, but I've yet to see anyone entertain the possibility that Ruby isn't the woman, but that Ruby becomes her at the end. The Woman first appears when the Doctor steps on the fairy circle, whereas at the end of the episode Old Ruby is there when they land. And when you look closely at the woman when she turns as Old Ruby dies, she's not the same actor, which she would have been if she was the same person, right? And we don't even get to see the woman's face clearly even at the end, but we get to see through Ruby's POV. Furthermore, why, if Ruby was the woman the whole time, would the woman isolate Ruby so traumatically? I think you could make the argument that the woman punishes Ruby for violating the circle, and when she dies, after a lifetime of learning to accept, love, and do good things with her curse, Ruby is given the reward of warning her younger self to respect the land and avoid the same fate.

@azuraathena

Ай бұрын

I have the same opinion, my view on the ending is that at the moment of death Ruby could merge with the entity and give herself the warning.

@OcyTaviAh

Ай бұрын

I hadn’t considered this but I think it’s an excellent theory and fits with the narrative well.

@SarcyBoi41

Ай бұрын

I like this idea, though when we briefly see the woman at the end of the episode (when she's definitely Ruby) she appears to still be played by that same actor.

@kellidawnholsopple

Ай бұрын

Wow! Yes!! This is what I thought after my third time watching it and not reading any theories. I’m so glad someone else thought this too! I totally don’t think she is Ruby, but is connected to the curse/circle and it’s Rubys final Acceptance of her that give her the chance to become her at the end and loop back, following that line she has where she says she has hope for “the end” like she still has hope that she can see the doctor again. You said it better, just wanted to say I AGREE! And I haven’t seen this anywhere else. What do you think she means when she says as the old woman, “I’ve tried so hard all these years?”

@lordhoot1

Ай бұрын

Yes it's not her. I don't think it's a person at all, just a sign or a symbol in the shape of a woman.

The thing is Doctor Who should have episodes not for everyone. People big up how DW can be anything and everything but get really annoyed when it deviates from the norm. Doctor Who should be weird, dark, camp, thought provoking, magical, none sensical, deep, shallow, for adults, for kids, mature etc. This is what I want from Doctor Who. And the same goes for all the previous episodes. The asterisk should be it needs to be good on top of that.

@Venemofthe888

Ай бұрын

I have liked that in this series in particular that every episode has a different vibe and setting to set themselves apart from each other. You have these episodes being so different to each other and if you don't like one you might like another. I think the only weak link atm is space babies and even then it's not awful

Looove that interpretation of Ruby making meaning out of her situation rather than it being pre-prescribed. Feels like there might be an analogy about processing and healing from trauma in there if you cared to look for it.

@kellygingrich4302

Ай бұрын

Yeah and mental health/addiction stuff too

@JeekayTenn

23 күн бұрын

I took it that the "herald" was a metaphor for gaslighting

*Benoit Blanc voice*: It makes no damn sense…! Compels me, though.

@Lia-zw1ls7tz7o

Ай бұрын

Damn, now I wanna see a Doctor Who/Benoît Blanc crossover! Imagine that! I always thought the Twelfth Doctor would fit amazingly in Glass Onion!

@kylekyleson3971

Ай бұрын

@@Lia-zw1ls7tz7o I could definitely see Capaldi giving the "it's just dumb" speech

@jamiedoe6822

Ай бұрын

@@Lia-zw1ls7tz7o that would be fun

@Lia-zw1ls7tz7o

Ай бұрын

@@kylekyleson3971 Oh yesss!!!

Everyone keeps saying they didn’t do anything to age Ruby up. I swear they did. They gave her narrower cheeks and subtle crow’s feet with makeup, and she changed her posture and facial movements. As a sort of shorthand for being older I actually thought it worked really well. I immediately felt how much she’d aged. I’d much prefer that to noticeable prosthetics. Also, like, she’s only meant to be forty! Many forty year-olds still look quite youthful.

@HulaHula667

Ай бұрын

43 - still constantly mistaken for being in my 20’s!!

@saucermcfly

28 күн бұрын

​@@HulaHula667 I was too! I honestly didn't notice a lack of aging makeup etc.

@leng7811

27 күн бұрын

As a 46-year-old, I appreciate this comment so much! It drives me crazy when media shows the mothers of teens or college students (my oldest is nearly 21) with grey hair and obvious wrinkles. I was carded less than 3 years ago! The standard in that place was if someone looks 35 or younger. I think our idea of how certain ages look is pretty warped.

@gryotharian

25 күн бұрын

They did as much as they could it’s just a tough task making an 18 year old looks believably 40 lol

@rowenblue

24 күн бұрын

@@gryotharian True. Which is why I like how they chose to focus on subtle aesthetic cues and on her performance rather than overdoing it trying to be literal. For me anyway, it satisfyingly conveyed her age in the simplest, least distracting way possible.

I loved this episode, definitely one of my favorites in a very long time. One thing I don't think you touched on much here is the phrase "ask her", which I thought was oddly specific. When the bar owner reaches out to Joshua to see why he hasn't come back to the pub, he says "ask her", which the bar owner thinks refers to Ruby and Ruby thinks refers to the 73 yards woman (who we later find out IS Ruby). Roger ap Gwilliam also says "ask her" when asked why he ran away from his PR event. And although it's not an "ask her" moment, I also think the look on Ruby's face when the hiker talks to the 73 yards woman is quite meaningful. She doesn't look confused or scared, she looks devastated. She looks like she's going to cry. I very much subscribe to the interpretation that the 73 yards woman represents the idea Ruby has that people abandon her because when they look closely enough, they see that there's something fundamentally wrong about her. I thought the "ask her"s fed into that interpretation; it doesn't matter what specifically the 73 yards woman said, the implication is that Ruby (or the viewer identifying with Ruby) must know what's wrong with themselves that would make other people afraid/disgusted/hateful towards them. It's important that we DON'T learn what the 73 yards woman specifically says, so that every viewer who identifies with that feeling can empathize with Ruby.

@mrcritical6751

Ай бұрын

Doctor Who Unleashed actually does answer at least what she’s signing. It’s gobbledygook about her thanking somebody for giving her a little trinket

@kellygingrich4302

Ай бұрын

Oh I like that take!

@larsg.2492

Ай бұрын

​@@mrcritical6751 That somehow takes away so much for me. I've read other comments that are on the same wavelength as me, that the woman represents things that drive others away. A Disability, illnesss, a secret or depression. Grief. I did not see the movements a signing, but were reminded of family members that passed away. A form of mindless grasping, holding, rubbing, that the body goes through in the last hours of life, the last stuttering on an empty tank. And that was my "explanation" for the woman, this memento mori, the inevitability of death, fixed in a moment that never changes. And people run from it, because they will not succumb to oblivion. Other people see different things, depending on their experiences, and that makes it such a beautiful and heavy episode.

@mrcritical6751

Ай бұрын

@@larsg.2492 I do think it adds to Vera’s interpretation though. We look at her movements and try to see depth but all it is, is nonsense

@stevetayler9518

Ай бұрын

​@@mrcritical6751 Did anyone else think, from watching Doctor Who Unleashed, that the 73 Yards Woman is in fact NOT old Ruby. That is the (very strong) implication in the episode. But it's apparent from Unleashed that, not only is she a completely different actress to old Ruby, with much longer hair (possibly even a little younger than old Ruby was when she died?) but her costume and bizarre facial makeup strongly suggest that she is someone/something else entirely. But if that's the case, why was the episode written to infer otherwise? Another mystery.....

I love how there wasn't an intro sequence, it really adds to the uneasiness of the doctor being missing.

@The-Busy-Beeeee

Ай бұрын

I mean he’s apart of the stories mechanics now “I thought it was none diagetic” or something

Somehow I think RTD is trying to showcase how versatile Doctor Who is in this season as there is an episode for everyone it seems.

@alim.9801

13 күн бұрын

I agree, and I've been loving the variety!! It feels like shake up the series really needed atp. I also love how optimistic and joyful the tone feels overall, I feel this series has really brought back a sense of wonder and lust for life/adventure that's been missing for a while yknow?

I already really loved this episode (potential favourite so far) but then I saw someone say you could read it as a metaphor for grief and/or mental illness and it hit so much harder. The woman follows Ruby everywhere; she doesn't know why she is here, she worms her way into every relationship and destroys it. When Ruby begs "don't listen to her!", it can almost feel like begging someone to see past the illness or the faults or the mistakes and stay anyway. Ruby learns to love with her, treats her as a companion. She's even scared of who she would be without her. As Vera says, she tries to build a life around her and accept it and lives a quite isolated existence because of it. She searches for a higher purpose for her existence, a way she can do something meaningful with it. When she finds that purpose, she wonders if she is finally free. Also as someone with a fear of abandonment, that aspect hit me so hard. So while I have logical issues with this episode's resolution, thematically and emotionally the episode is fantastic.

Something I'm surprised Vera didn’t pick up on, because this bit made me love Ruby all the more. In addition to saying she didn’t travel by plane or boat because "it might kill me" was her saying that it could kill the entity. That there: she's got a potential solution, but because it might kill this thing, even though ithas ruined her relationship with her mother, and other things too, because it could kill the entity, she wouldn't try.

@CortexNewsService

Ай бұрын

YES! THIS!

@cfsfilms5091

Ай бұрын

Ruby's incredible selflessness is something that keeps coming up and it makes me really like her as a companion. She will put herself at risk if it protects someone else. We saw it with Lulubelle in the Christmas special, and her jumping onto the ladder without a plan is how she meets the Doctor. In Space Babies, she yells for the Bogeyman to attract its attention away from Eric, She even has a moment like this with the Doctor himself in Boom when she refuses to throw him the casket. It's just. Such a good thread to give a character like this and I'm very happy every time it comes up. This time it being relatively underplayed and about the 'monster' just adds to it.

@GarnetHeartIllustrations

Ай бұрын

I didn’t interpret it that way, I thought it was like that horror trope where you just /know/ something without any way to. Like staring into a void and somehow knowing something is staring back at you. So I interpreted Ruby’s line as that where she wanted to try the plane or boat thing but when she got to trying it, she got that strange intuition that severing the connection with the woman would result in her own death, without any idea as to whether or not it would hurt the woman

@Stephen_The_Waxing_Lyricist

Ай бұрын

@@GarnetHeartIllustrations that's a valid interpretation as any. Of course, as it turns out, killing the entity would have been fatal for Ruby...

@CouncilofGeeks

Ай бұрын

I did pick up on it but when I brought it up I worded it awkwardly and just opted to trim it from the video.

The scene of the Pub on a Dark & Stormy night was just **chef’s kiss** .

Ok, here’s my take: both Mad Jack and the Fairy Ring are elemental forces kept in eternal balance on that clifftop. Mad Jack is a destructive force entrapped in a myth pattern that the Fairy Ring creates. The Fairy Ring is the force of story telling itself, that seeks to remake chaos into order. When the ring is broken and there is a risk of Mad Jack escaping, the Fairy Ring borrows the timeline, the “story” of a nearby person to create a new story that traps Mad Jack again. The Ruby we see from that moment on (both the young version as the old motioning woman) are not the real Ruby, they are the spell of the Fairy Ring itself incarnating itself into the story’s protagonist, just as the Fairy Ring uses ap Gwylliam (a dangerous historical figure from Ruby’s future in the real word) as a character to give Mad Jack’s essence form within the story it creates to entrap him. But within the confines of the story both Ruby and ap Gwylliam are still fully realized characters unaware of the larger forces they incarnate, in the same way the constructs in “Extremis” were unaware of their true natures until it was revealed to them. The reason all who approach the old woman flee is because they retreat in horror instinctively when they approach that truth. Once the story, Ruby’s life, has played itself out, balance has been restored. It’s an “all this has happened before and will happen again” situation, where Mad Jack and the Fairy Ring take on the guises of real people of that time to play the story out once more.

@nancyjay790

Ай бұрын

Interesting.

@HuntingViolets

Ай бұрын

You should comment this on all the reaction videos.

@hypnoamber3248

Ай бұрын

Totally agree.

@albineigengrau3212

Ай бұрын

@@HuntingViolets Lol! I already did on 2, I'm going to stop it there.

@DavidBeddard

Ай бұрын

Ah, so a little bit of a Donnie Darko meets fairies thing... Yeah, I can roll with that.

21:05 Quick note for how they didn’t age Ruby-if you’re looking closely, they do. Not her face, though; her hair. They start with changing the style and shape, but then they go on to adding grey streaks into her blonde hair, quite subtly. They also change her eyewear and wardrobe, trending away from her quirky, inexpensive fashion choices and into more subtle, practical, and expensive styles. They didn’t age her face, but they did age everything that frames her face.

@joeeeee256

Ай бұрын

Yup, they adjusted her hairline with the wigs and she learnt to walk like a 40 year old apparently! It's really noticeable in the stadium scene!!!

@zemoxian

Ай бұрын

I don’t know why but I thought they did age her face. I don’t think she still looks 20. I thought it was slightly fuller or something and I think her forehead may have been lined. But 40 isn’t old so not much needs to be done to make someone look 40. Faces aren’t accurate timepieces. I think people may have expectations about 40 that aren’t always met. I know someone who just had their 40th birthday and she keeps shocking people every time they mention it.

@ThePlayTyperGuy

Ай бұрын

Yes, it’s subtle aging, which works I think. Ruby is 42 so “old age” makeup wouldn’t really apply. Older Amy is 36 years older in The Girl Who Waited so almost twice as much time had passed.

@ghlmk5931

Ай бұрын

I agree. Some people seem to think that a 42 year old should look like the Crypt Keeper. I totally believed she was in her late thirties at least.

@AH-yn6ip

Ай бұрын

Old age makeup always misses the mark in weird ways. You’d either get a young person with grey in their hair, or they go with heavy set, wrinkly facial prosthetics. It’s amusing then when you get to see the actors when they reach that eventual age. Thinking Kyle MacLachlan in Twin Peaks or Lea Thompson and Michael J. Fox in Back to the Future 2. That’s partly actors lives versus the normal schmoes they’re playing, but it still gets overdone a bit.

Russell is in his "I'm gonna do whatever I feel like" arc and I'm here for it

@PsyrenXY

Ай бұрын

I mean they practically begged him to come back after Chibnall almost drove us all off a cliff so I'm sure "I can do whatever I want" was an easy stipulation

@KLOC2812

Ай бұрын

@@PsyrenXY little did the BBC know how good they had it with Chibnall

@stressedtoimpress91

Ай бұрын

​@@KLOC2812 I'm actually really enjoying this season so far. Except Space Babies. That episode can fuck off

@PsyrenXY

Ай бұрын

@@KLOC2812 Feel free to share some of that crack you're smoking

@HOTD108_

Ай бұрын

RTD be like: "The laws of Doctor Who are mine, and they will obey me!!"

Personally, I'm in the same boat as you, I understand why some people don't like it, but it's s right up my alley. But the fact Ruby just accepted the woman after a while sat well with me as someone with a chronic illness that's always in the background, but you can sometimes learn to accept its existence. At least for me anyway.

At the end when she stops the Doctor from stepping on the fairy circle, you hear the old lady in the distance voice saying "Don't Step" over and over.

13:00 plus she's been timetraveling when she asked if she can pay with her phone for a moment I thought she accidnetally ended up in 1990 or something, close enough to not instantly be noticed

Ruby was supposed to be only 40 years old. 40 is not "old" - not even middle aged - and does not necessarily have wrinkles or loose skin. There are plenty of 40 year olds who look 30.

Havent watched the video yet but i actually saw Davies say in an interview that the reason 73 yards was chosen as the distance was thats the perfect distance where you can see people clearly without being able to see any distinguishing features. I absolutely love that but i wish that detail was said during the episode at some point

I considered it more explicitly folk horror than fairy tale (though admittedly there's crossover between the two). The scene in the pub felt like it was im direct conversation with scenes like the one in American Werewolf. For the explanations it was what they said in the pub, breaking the circle at a border on a land soaked with blood, which then called back to invoking a superstition at the edge of the universe. For the purpose of Ruby being 40 I think it's worth remembering 40 year olds don't look visibly old so much as older. Going too far would have made her look too old for her age. I'm enjoying the range of episode types that have been used SB was very much geared towards kids, TDC was campy, Boom was tense and philosophical, and this was horror inflected. Finally, Aneurin Barnard was very good as he hit exactly the right tone with his perormance.

@stark_harshly

Ай бұрын

TBF The American Werewolf in London scene is a riff on almost every Dracula adaptation

@stevetayler9518

Ай бұрын

Loved the folk horror aspect. Very much reminded me of the BBC's "A Ghost Story For Christmas" plays from back in the 70's. Particularly The Signalman and A Warning to the Curious.

The episode felt like a creepypasta. After the scene with Kate, I was actually inspired to write it up as an SCP. I do feel like we know the mechanics of the Woman. She stays 73 yards away, no one notices it except for Ruby unless they're told, it doesn't show up on cameras, if anyone sees it and interacts with it, they'll flee and refuse to speak about it.

This felt like a Twilight Zone episode to me, in the best way.

That this episode was what Millie Gibson first filmed for doctor who makes this performance even more amazing.

73 Yards might genuinely have been the most terrifying Doctor Who episode ever, not a clue what just happened, no Doctor, no crazy time in space, no funky monsters, but it was absolutely enthralling for every second. I think it might be the best one ever.

@HOTD108_

Ай бұрын

You mean you think it might be the best episode of the RTD2 era, or of the entire revival era (2005 onwards), or the best episode of the entire 60 years of Doctor Who?

@kyledawson871

Ай бұрын

100th like

They did do old age makeup. It’s subtle, but it’s there

What I adore about this episode is that it feels like it allows fans to have it both ways. You can appreciate the episode as a completely story and be content with the outcome and the unknown. OR you can you can speculate on what may have happens with the breadcrumbs the episode is willing to leave you. To me that’s fantastic doctor who, even if it shouldn’t do it all the time.

@paulhammond6978

Ай бұрын

I feel like it's the fact it's so open ended and that everyone can have their own theories and explanations about what happened, and exactly why it happened is one of the reasons this story will be talked about for years. So, as Vera says, if you just focus on Ruby, and what this story does with her character, you can find that satisfying, or if you are one of the people who likes coming up with headcanon or theories about everything, well there's a lot of room for that too.

RE: Supernatural stuff I didn't even realize until I saw Jessie Gender mention it in one of her videos that the supernatural stuff is coming in because of the recent Tenant specials. Specifically the spaceship at the edge of the universe where the Doctor tricks the creatures with a line of salt on the ground and telling them it protects against demons and monsters, then they blow the salt away. Even at the time the Doctor mentions that doing that at the edge of the universe where anything is possible might have some consequences. The Doctor created a symbolic barrier against the supernatural at the edge of the universe, then a creature from beyond our universe broke it... thus letting the supernatural things in.

@The-Busy-Beeeee

Ай бұрын

Exactly. And also “things are moving more towards that these days” when Kate said that about it

I get why people compare this episode to Midnight, but I think a much more apt comparison is to The Wish from Buffy. A self-contained episode that everyone forgets in the end, that gives some insight into certain characters but is mostly for establishing the philosophy that the universe of the show operates under. Luckily I love The Wish and I love this episode too. I also really liked the Marti stuff. The thing that stopped me from finding it a cruel and pointless inclusion is that it directly parallels what Ruby's going through. Put that subplot in Boom and I would've hated it. In 73 Yards, a story where the main character is cursed to live the rest of her life haunted and distracted by something inherently purposeless that she feels she can't tell anyone about without being abandoned, I love it

Took me a little while to adjust to the unanswered questions, but the second I realised that the story was about Ruby's fear of abandonment without explanation, I completely fell in love with it. We don't hear what the woman is saying because the idea of Ruby having a secret so terrible that everyone she loves refuses to ever speak to her again is ridiculous and untrue. I think this has convinced me to hope the reveal of her parents is a meet the Robinsons style lesson where she's content never knowing who her birth parents are, rather than something gimmicky like she's the child of the Trickster or the Rani etc. I hope the finale doesn't try to explain what happens in a massive exposition dump.

@brandoncsantoro

Ай бұрын

With this episode and the framing of the series so far, I would sincerely love if The Doctor is able complete his "test scan" and Ruby chooses not to read it.

@mrdoctorgilmore

Ай бұрын

@@brandoncsantoro Absolutely, I love who Ruby is now, I don't care who she could've been if her parents kept her or if she's Susan. She and 15 are one of the most likeable Tardis teams and I don't want her to be secretly "evil all along" just for the sake of it.

@jacobharris954

Ай бұрын

I have figured who she is already

@abigailflyer8552

Ай бұрын

I totally agree with the analysis that the woman is a representation of Ruby's fear of abandonment. It's this fear that never leaves her, it's always in the back of her mind. It prevents her from investing fully in relationships in the dates we see-the answer to "is there someone else" that her date asks is really that this fear is holding her back from opening herself up to human connections in case they discover the "unlovable" thing within her that makes everyone leave. "We don't hear what the woman is saying because the idea of Ruby having a secret so terrible that everyone she loves refuses to ever speak to her again is ridiculous and untrue." Once she accepts that this anxiety will always be with her, she learns to find peace in it, and that sense of peace allows her to create meaning where there is none. It's basically the mindset of "this trauma happened to me for a reason, it made me the person I am today and allows me to help others" as a way to mentally grapple with the inexplicable things that happen to us. I was a little iffy on the episode after seeing it for the first time, but hearing these sorts of analyses and all of this clicking for me has completely transformed the way I view this episode.

My review of 73 yards: What? What?! WHAT??? 10/10.

I find it interesting the way this episode breaks a pattern Doctor Who often falls into when it goes folklore, by keeping it magical. Like, while it's creative and fun to go "they're not witches, they're aliens" or "that's not a siren, it's a robot nurse", it does kind of spoil something. Soft magic shouldn't be the basis for the show but god is it special when it rears its head

6:08 When it became clear that the mysterious woman was making everyone turn against Ruby, for a moment I then thought that she somehow had turned the Doctor and the TARDIS as well, which is why Ruby couldn't open it with her TARDIS key. Because the Doctor had run into the TARDIS and the TARDIS as a living entity refused to allow Ruby to enter.

Five episodes in with Ncuti Doctor and Ruby together I see a theme this season: abandonment and finding what to do with the fact that you have been left alone without a reason or explanation. It’s a direct theme in episodes like this one or Ruby Road; and Space Babies literally has abandoned babies in it; but you can also see it in The Devil’s Chord when the Doctor remembers his lost family, and in reverse in Boom with Splice’s faith and how Ruby feels sorry anyways because she does not share her hopeful vision. I like this because Doctor Who usually relies so much in mystery boxes that is rare to find such a clear subject putting a full series together. Closest thing we had is the Capaldi era with anti-militarism in season 8 and anti-capitalism in season 10; but i’d say this is way subtler and less on the nose, making it far superior as a narrative tool. It’s also a nice way to put into use the Timeless Children reveal, the Doctor being a foundling, looking at it’s emotional core without needing to mess at all with canon.

One thing I loved is that while the “why” and “how” questions weren’t answered, enough of the “what” questions were, and they were answered through observation and experimentation. The line where Ruby says she positioned the apparition in front of a police car to see what would happen tells so much. Not only the result of that experiment, bit that by that point she had figured out the rules for where it would appear well enough to be able to do that experiment in the first place. Moreover that she was the sort of person who, when presented with the unknown, would experiment on it to figure out the rules by which it operates. Thus, when we get to the stadium scene, we know what will happen. She will position herself 73 yards from Roger, in such a way that the apparition will appear beside hum, he will greet the apparition as he greets everyone, then he’ll get scared and run away. This is because the rules by which the apparition works are consistent and known, even though the mechanics are not. The apparition won’t just happen to appear 83 yards away, or 63 yards. Roger won’t shrug his shoulders and get on with the campaigning. These things won’t happen because that’s not how the apparition works. For a non DW comparison, think of Death Note. The notebook itself and the Shinigami are blatantly supernatural, and no effort is made to explain how they work. But they obey rules and those rules can be discovered through experimentation. It’ essentially a science fiction story about magic death books and the magic death gods who wield them. This story is science fiction about a magic fairy curse and an apparition that makes people run away and never return. I think in that regard too it *is* like Midnight. We get the rules by which the magic operates, but not it’s motivation. Ruby figures out the whats well enough to end the career of an evil poltician, but not why it’s happening in the first place. It doesn’t put her any closer to ending the curse or bringing back those it has driven away.

@liegeoflunacy

Ай бұрын

Thank you for actually explaining it and not just dismissing an aspect of the episode that I found incredibly triggering. All my life people have been getting cross with me and not telling me why, simply saying, "You know, don't play stupid. And if you don't know then you should take a good hard look inside yourself" But nobody is ever willing to tell me what it is that they're cross with me about. I found that aspect of the episode incredibly triggering but you helped me see past that. Thank you

Listening to this made me start wondering if this was perhaps a metaphor or allegory for SA. This thing that happened to a young woman that changed her, that happened for no particular reason, but the stigma and shadow of it follows her everywhere. The fact that the people who react by ostracising her are predominantly other women, and that the one meaningful connection she makes with another person is with someone who is also a victim. All of it culminating with her using her experience to take down another predator? It's not a perfect allegory, but I would be fascinated to hear what you and other people think about that?

@kellygingrich4302

Ай бұрын

Totally! I definitely read it as a (very) open metaphor that many people could differently into, like SA, mental health issues, addition, etc

@The-Busy-Beeeee

Ай бұрын

Not only that but the women who it was implied to have been saed by mad Jack (that’s my interpretation anyway because she is just a hallow version of herself and ofc the “oh yea he’s a monster”) both laughed when mad Jack ran away together

And for those peeps who don't think Ruby looks 40, I'm over 40 and she totally sells it with how she moves her body. She absolutely nails the way a 40 year old woman would feel. I was honestly very impressed, more so than if they would have just done her up in what they think old lady makeup should look like.

@saphcal

Ай бұрын

yeah im about to be 38 and i havent changed much lookswise since i was like 16 lol

@billkerns9258

Ай бұрын

Her skin looked very, very young for 40 so I'm not going to argue with those who say she looked too young. However, I also see this as a point where reactions may be divided by age bracket. I'm Gen X (over 40) and I bought Ruby based on the mannerisms, clothes, posture, and overall attitude. She acted world-weary.

@kellygingrich4302

Ай бұрын

That's a great perspective - now I need to rewatch it to pay attention to her physicality more!

@stark_harshly

Ай бұрын

Good genes and being a younger generation probably help.

@billkerns9258

Ай бұрын

@@stark_harshly As it is people who are 40 now will often look younger than people who were 40 in 1910 (especially with access to proper skin care and nutrition). Yes - genes, skincare, exercise and nutrition, all that stuff.

This episode can be read so many ways. It could be about abandonment or the acceptance of our flaws, or even about death itself. That, even when everyone leaves you, you still have yourself. Older Ruby at the Tardis talks about how she had never been alone, but we now know that it was really just her who was 73 yards away. So in actuality, she was alone. But she came to know that accepting yourself is what's important. Which, for someone abandoned as a child, always asking "was it me? Is that why my mother abandoned me? That she didn't want me"" this type of idea really hits at the core of her character and her arc. There's also a reading on "flaws." Everyone runs away from the older Ruby, and it could be read as them not accepting her for who she truly is. She uses this "negative" to get a positive result, stopping Roger, but that doesn't make that part of herself go away. It's still there. There's also a reading about death itself. Everyone who encountered the older, dead Ruby, ran. A sort of personification of death. Because they couldn't accept it. Whereas Ruby was able to literally accept it at the end of her life, and still have hope. This hope in the face of death is what gives her the ability to save herself. Overall this episode is incredible BECAUSE of the multiple potential readings. It really will stand the test of time because of that, and it's by far the best episode this season because of the open questions that it asks the viewer.

My feeling on the aging is it's absolutely fine. Ruby is in her early forties at the oldest we see her before she starts visibly aging. I am getting kind of sick of all the young reactors saying she looks unrealistic. WTF world are you living in? Many women (and men) in their mid-forties are not wrinkled and look about the same as they did in their 30s. America Ferrara, Calvin Harris, Scarlet Johansson, Zoe Perry, Mila Kunis, Donald Glover... 40 year-old people look young!!! 40 - 45 is exactly when most people today start to visibly age. People are calling out something as unrealistic that is ABSOLUTELY realistic, even in people who are not celebrities. Anyway, thanks for a fantastic reaction! P.S. BONUS POINTS for mentioning The Secret of Roan Inish and Stardust! Two of my favorites!

The fact this was the first epsiode millie gibson filmed at age 18 blew my mind I hope she has a amazing career in the future because this performance was brilliant especially considering the stress of it being her first episode.

I loved this episode. I kinda reminded me of “Turn Left” (still one of my favorite DW eps of all time). Although that one didn’t have the same fantasy/fairytale elements, it did achieve the same goal of really making the companion’s core character and values shine by putting sticking them in a seemingly hopeless situation without the Doctor. What I took away from this episode, that I think is more important than an explanation, is that Ruby is incredibly resilient and eager to create positive meaning out of a hopeless situation. She is even resilient in the face of being abandoned by everyone, including her own mother, which we know is a core trauma of hers stemming back to the circumstances of her birth. I do wonder if there is some sort of connection there with Ruby’s fear of abandonment being reflected back at her endlessly in this aborted timeline. This season has been really harping on the coincidences happening around Ruby (like what the Doctor mentions when they stumble onto the ship of babies), so it’s possible this is just another one of those coincidences created around her (or possibly created by her).

@benjamintillema3572

Ай бұрын

That's the comparison my mind was making as well.

Tbf it’s not accurate to say they didn’t do old age makeup. They did, it just wasn’t as intense as most people would’ve expected for the age she is supposed to be. If you see pictures of her in these scenes or behind the scenes they added visible wrinkles and spots, but they just didn’t change her general face shape enough to represent what you’d expect out of someone who is in their 40s. That being said I agree that this didn’t take me out of the episode and I don’t think this was much of an issue at all. Would much rather little old age makeup to too much.

I'm convinced that the people complaining the plot isn't explained haven't figured out that it was implied the fairies did it to punish The Doctor for his carelessness. They can be EXTREMELY petty and vindictive when angered in Celtic legends.

@Elwaves2925

Ай бұрын

I saw it as Ruby serving penance, not the Doctor. The Doctor immediately apologised and started repairing the circle, while Ruby read the messages, didn't apologise and didn't try to fix things. Other than that, I agree with you and I think Torchwood established how horrible fairies really are, if I remember correctly.

@BlueSparxLPs

Ай бұрын

In fairness, if that is the angle RTD was going for I'd just defer to the idea of these legends being really obscure (especially outside the UK). Nothing in the episode mapped to any kind of myth or legend I was familiar with, so I only had what the episode explicitly said to go off.

@arankatarn1242

Ай бұрын

​@@Elwaves2925 Agreed

@Jansenbaker

Ай бұрын

​@BlueSparxLPs True. I never thought about looking up what a fairy circle is, or what that implies, so that may have been part of my confusion.

@mattlord97

Ай бұрын

​@Elwaves2925 it would be Cool if the fairies from Torchwood were linked to this episode and then maybe made another appearance down the line too. I like how vindictive and evil they are in that episode even though I don't really care for that episode itself

God the mystery was so good and I love the open ending. The way I interpreted it was Ruby ended up having to repent breaking the circle and reading the note by becoming the circle herself. I love how this dives into ruby’s character and abandonment issues, as well as how the story tricks you into thinking you’re going to get an answer several times. It is so chilling how you think several times she’s going to get help but literally everyone ends up running away. Even when she thinks she found out how to escape the loop by chasing away ‘mad jack’ it just keeps going until she reaches the end of her life and breaks the cycle by preventing the breaking of the circle from the beginning. I really like the supernatural/fantasy elements in this season too.

@mikecarroll9197

Ай бұрын

I think this might be my favorite interpretation of this!

@chrislawley6801

Ай бұрын

Ruby didn't break the circle, the Dr did

@kimichu2546

Ай бұрын

@@chrislawley6801 true, but she definitely participated by taking and reading the note. Idk why only ruby had to ‘repent’ but this explanation works for me lol

@HuntingViolets

Ай бұрын

@@kimichu2546 Well, we don't know whether the Doctor had to do anything. Maybe he did.

I totally agree with you. One thing I noticed though. When anyone went to old Ruby they didn’t run until after they looked back at Ruby. I think there’s more to Ruby than just snow:) also the prime minister was prev referenced in before the flood season 10:) minister for war:)

@The-Busy-Beeeee

Ай бұрын

Yea 2046 wasn’t it?

I am perfectly happy to have unanswered questions as long as they aren't pertinent to the point of the story being told. The reason why it happened was far less important than what Ruby did about the fact that it had happened. I think the episode did a good enough job of making clear that the breaking of the fairy circle was the cause, because the resolution was the prevention of the circle being broken, and that was plenty. Strong Donnie Darko vibes, with nasty people receiving comeuppance in an aborted timeline that loops back to change itself; even the semperdistanced entity bore a pasing resemblance to "Grandma Death". The more I sit with this episode, the more I realise that it wasn't that it didn't make sense that was the problem, it was that I was trying to apply the wrong rules to the story. I'm going to need to watch this again.

Quite a bit of this episode was filmed in my home city. I was lucky enough to see some of the filming. Millie Gibson and the rest of the cast were brilliant.

@ingec1736

Ай бұрын

That's so cool!

@BadBadAngel3

Ай бұрын

@@ingec1736 I'm thinking of starting a Doctor Who location tour.

It reminded me a lot of the Sarah-Jane Adventures episode The Curse of Clyde Langer

@SarcyBoi41

Ай бұрын

Agreed. The atmosphere and plot beats felt like a combination of that, It Follows and that Torchwood episode with the fairies.

@HOTD108_

Ай бұрын

​@@SarcyBoi41 Can't say I got any Torchwood vibes from this, probably because nobody got undressed or violently horny for no reason lol.

@Olive-cx2jw

Ай бұрын

Oh that’s true!

31:00 -- I'm not convinced the old woman *was* Ruby, given that the actress for the old woman and the actress for Old Ruby are not the same (they could have been, but RTD deliberately chose to cast two different women). It's still possible that it's old Ruby, but it's also possible that old Ruby somewhat merged with that spectre, so that they only became one when the circle was closed, but not before. And maybe we'll get a definitive resolution to that, and maybe we won't

@BlueSparxLPs

Ай бұрын

I'm not knowledgeable whatsoever on the costs associated with filming a TV show, but could it not have just been that it was less expensive and time consuming to hire an older woman for those shots than to drastically increase the amount of age-up makeup they needed to use on Millie?

@ugolomb

Ай бұрын

@@BlueSparxLPs Thing is, they already hired someone to portray 80-year-old Millie, but hired someone *else* to portray the old woman following Ruby. They could have used the same person, but they chose not to. This implies, at least, that the old woman is an aged Ruby. But it's not definitive. It wouldn't have been definitive if it was the same actress, either; but it would have leaned more heavily towards "yes, they're the same", whereas having two different women leans more heavily towards "no, they're not the same"

@voltijuice8576

Ай бұрын

@@ugolomb - There could have been simple logistical reasons for having.a different actress as the follower. An older actress might have more limited availability or access to shooting locations, and he face wasn’t seen clearly anyway.

@60wattmoon

Ай бұрын

This! I commented something along the same lines earlier today, hahaha. You're the only other person I've seen bringing this up! Glad to know I'm not alone in this.

@klop4228

Ай бұрын

​@@voltijuice8576 surely they could have cast a different older actress who was a biy spryer, then? Unless they were just so totally convinced the one in the deathbed was perfect.

People tend to write things in a 3 act structure just because that's what we grew up with. The season has only 8 episodes, so episode 4 is midpoint in the mystery. RTD wrote the vast majority of episodes. My guess is that this is the moment things begin to unravel. Ruby recognized the woman from somewhere, but she couldn't place where. It's almost a perfect moment. I will say, the criticisms most have of the current seasons are almost verbatim the criticisms from the Eccleston era.

It's hard to add to what you've said, because you've just about said it all. This is pretty much a perfect episode. "Realistic" stories with every detail worked out and available for the viewer, or stories with their meaning directing events like a puppet master pulling strings, always seemed very artificial to me. Actual real life is much more full of uncertainty and ignorance, and meanings get invented and jerry-rigged together rather than discovered neatly working through events in the world. So, with that in mind, this magical fantasy ironically struck me as far more realistic feeling most any other story. One point where my initial reading differed a bit is the identity of the mysterious old woman. I'm just not sure it's _always_ Ruby. We get old Ruby saying "do not step" at the end of the episode but not the beginning, even though the mysterious old woman is there both times. It could be because only at the end does the old woman decide to take Ruby back to the beginning with her. As though she's allowing herself to be possessed by Ruby's ghost at that moment.

Here's where the story falls down for me: The actual ending. Everything up to that point works. The dread, the fear of abandonment, the alienation and othering it creates, the gradual attempt to adjust and accept and put together a life within this new normal, and even the knock-off Dead Zone arc in the middle, culminating in the reveal that Ruby was able to have a full life after accepting this as part of her. And then we have to hit reset because it's a TV series and it falls apart. I don't need an explanation that makes literal sense for why she is able to travel back to the cliff and the fairy circle. I do need something because it doesn't track with the emotions of the story to that point and feels very writer-y to me in Russell got 3 pages from the end, realised he needed to put the toys back in the box and did so very clumsily and quickly. Everything else I'm fine with little to no explanation. What was the woman saying/doing to scare or drive people off? Don't care, there's no explanation that would make the story better. But that ending just feels like a damp squib, hampered by the format of the show and frustrates me because it makes me feel like he should've just done this as a standalone film outside the brand where he could've followed through to a different ending that would've flowed with the story. A more minor issue I have is Ruby's mum having appeared 3 times so far, and in 2 of them, we've seen her being a cold, altered version who either decries children in general or disowns Ruby specifically and I feel like that's too much when we've barely gotten to know her real personality.

@NicoleM_radiantbaby

Ай бұрын

Definitely starting to wonder if Ruby's mum is just a horrible person. Her behaviour in this episode REALLY pissed me off.

@nealjroberts4050

Ай бұрын

I agree the transition from Old Ruby to Old Woman in Distance was not done well.

@benjamintillema3572

Ай бұрын

I feel bad about Ruby's mom being depicted in such a way twice now BUT the actress playing her really sells it. I hope we get an episode where she is in it for the majority of the run time and is the loving, caring mother throughout.

This is one of my favourite episodes of Doctor Who of all time. I'm going to need to sit with it to know if it's my favourite, but it's certainly in my same breath as The City of Death, Caves of Androzani, Midnight, Turn Left, and Heaven Sent. This isn't just a "For what it's doing I can't think of any way it could do it better, and I don't dislike what it's doing so I can't really critique it." this is a "Holy hell, yes please. This is an excellent execution of something that is entirely my shit, with only a slight compromise to accommodate it being within an episode of Doctor Who." And, yeah, not for everyone. It operates in a genre that is very different from the genres Who usually operates within - The thing I'm finding myself mentally filing it alongside is The Wish Dog and Other Stories, which is an anthology of short ghost stories all written by Welsh women, and while it's been long enough that I don't recall if they all had this refusal to answer anything about what was going on, from my recollection did all have this same sense of etherealness to them that this episode gets to via not providing any explanation to what's going on. What I'm finding _frustrating_ is the folk claiming that the lack of explanation is objectively bad and a sign of 'lazy writing' (even beyond my usual eyerolling at criticisms along the lines of 'lazy writing') As an aside, since you highlighted Millie Gibson's performance, this was the first episode filmed, while Ncuti Gatwa was wrapping up filming on Sex Education. Meaning Gibson's performance as Ruby in this? The first time she touched the character outside of auditioning and whatever prep work she will have done.

I found the welsh stereotype thing funny because Ruby, at this point, isn't fully familiar with what year it is. Also the weirdly set up exposition dump that was a bit was really great. The twist surprised me, and I have mixed feelings on this episode.

@BlueSparxLPs

Ай бұрын

As someone in the US totally unfamiliar of those stereotypes, before the reveal that scene simply read to me like, "oh, they went back in time so of course these people don't know what a phone is." Afterward I just figured they were joking around with her, so it wasn't as surprising when they did it again with the person at the door.

I’d argue that the camera definitely was lingering on Susan Twist, look back at Space babies, we basically zoom in and wait for her to finish her sentence before cutting away. Same with the devils cord where they staged a whole section to make sure the doctor never saw her face

@mrcritical6751

Ай бұрын

Plus you get multiple closeups of her as Ambulance in Boom

@saphcal

Ай бұрын

i still cant get that song out of my head. Theres always a twist at the end~

@intergalactic92

Ай бұрын

@@mrcritical6751 yeah, I’m amazed Vera didn’t mention that. She was literally the monster. That’s quite a big role.

The loop wasn't closed because the circle was broken in the first instance. The Doctor disappeared because he broke the circle holding Mad Jack (curiously representing Mad England or the Mad UK) to rest. Mad UK allowed the most dangerous prime minister to come to power more effectively. Ruby closed her own life circle by achieving her well-lived life and purpose. Her significance allowed her to reach back to young Ruby in the timeline preventing the Doctor from breaking the circle at which point the circle closed. That whole life journey now exists only as a latent memory in Ruby's mind obscured by distance but there nonetheless. As for what old Ruby said that made everyone run away and shun young Ruby not even RTD knows. However, the phrase "Ask Her." is an eternally interesting clue. To gain foreknowledge it is important to get the experiences of our older generations so we will not make similar errors that lead to our destruction. Learn from the past to plan our future. Old Ruby had the gift of hindsight so she knew what would happen if the events had not been stopped, and probably explained the consequences of what would happen if young Ruby was not left alone. The horrors of a path not taken. Very Dead Zone. I also found the Mrs Flood interaction quite enlightening.

I feel like this was an episode for the same sort of people who liked LOST. Nothing gets explained too much, weird rules of space-time, and a weird factor that is both creepy and fascinating. Not saying if you hated LOST, then you can’t enjoy this episode, but as a LOST apologist til death, this goes into my top three episodes of Doctor Who, and it gives me similar creeped out/curious/absolutely delightful vibes.

@kamilee4123

Ай бұрын

Actually it makes a lot of sense to make the Lost comparison. I’m also a huge Lost fan and I loved loved loved this episode.

I enjoyed it but the only thing that is niggling me is if Ruby doesn't get stranded does the PM just nuke everyone? Seeing as 'old Ruby' isn't there anymore to make him panic quit. Timey-whiney stuff but it annoys me

@wendyheatherwood

Ай бұрын

I don't think he was ever going to launch the nukes. The Doctor started talking about him bringing the world to the brink of nuclear war, so I think even without Ruby's involvement it was always only a near miss.

@richardmurgatroyd1616

Ай бұрын

​@@wendyheatherwoodgood point, but then it takes away Ruby's 'victory' and then she suffered (even if she doesn't recall it) for no reason.

First I was a disappointed that we are left with unanswered questions, then I realised that the answers could never be satisfactory. Better to have a mystery than an unsatisfying reveal

@AuroraButterflyx

Ай бұрын

This. I would genuinely think it would hurt the episode in the long term if we given all the answers. It definitely going to be a episode I will keep going back too as it still a mystery the 2nd time I watched it. If I knew how it ended and what she said, it won’t be as exciting to rewatch it.

@hotdog1214

Ай бұрын

I wasn't disappointed but I do usually hate when a story shrouds everything in mystery without an answer (although I don't mind a bit ala Midnight) but weirdly, got to the end of the episode and I was still well chuffed with it and didn't feel a need to have it answered. Yes, you're right, sometimes the mystery is more satisfying than a possible reveal and it definitely worked in this case, even though logically it shouldn't.

I agree this episode had me engrossed the whole way the first time this season and perhaps since Calpadi era, my personal favourite.

I think the episode had some really great aspects to it and I am fine with not knowing the words that made the people run. (Leaving that to the imagination might even be the better choice.) But the questions about where the doctor went and why the loop isn't closed really bother me. I feel like the episode would work significantly better as the exit for a companion, where the loop closes properly, showing how the companion comes to terms with being stuck on earth and uses the tools they gained travelling with the doctor to make the best of their situation.

I do appreciate you saying it's ok not to like the episode. Being part of a fandom where can be hard when everyone loves an episode and you really didn't can feel weirdly isolating. I'm glad other people enjoyed it so much though, I just had a lot of things that I really didn't enjoy about the episode (I did enjoy the lack of answers and mystery of the episode a lot)

@samuelbarber6177

Ай бұрын

Yeah, obsessive fandoms can be really unkind to people with different opinions like that. On the opposite end I’ve never really felt more lonely in this fandom than my unabashed enjoyment of much of the Whittaker/Chibnall years, particularly Series 12 (an era which also had some of the better holiday specials, in my opinion but few seem to agree.)

I think there are some things which I would have preferred had some sort of an explanation, and others definitely not. We should never find out what she said to any of those people, or get any explanation to what happened when they got close to her. Because that's the point, Ruby doesn't know, we don't know. I've been thinking to myself that the circle actually doesn't have anything mystical going on with it at all. It's Ruby who's made it mystical. If the Doctor arrived with any other companion, did the exact same thing, the other companion read the notes just as Ruby did, nothing would have happened. The Doctor wouldn't have disappeared, the woman wouldn't have appeared, none of it. But Ruby having this mystery box surrounding her made the circle mystical, and it led me to think that this could get brought up again at the end of the series, like "yes, this was actually important, it was a central part of this story arc." But after watching your review, I'm now hoping that it doesn't get brought up again. All the things that I would have preferred an explanation for, while they didn't ruin the episode for me, having an explanation wouldn't have ruined it either. Now I'm not so sure, it could do more harm than good if they were to tie this in to the finale

anyone else notice that when Kate turns back and looks at ruby after she orders everyone to disengage, ruby's eyes go matte? almost soulless and empty?

@suzannebudlong8376

Ай бұрын

I’ve seen that look in foster children and other kids who don’t have secure attachments or have been abandoned.

@The-Busy-Beeeee

Ай бұрын

@@suzannebudlong8376that’s heartbreaking

@suzannebudlong8376

Ай бұрын

@@The-Busy-Beeeee it really is heartbreaking.

@Gnomes_

18 күн бұрын

It definitely looks intentional to me - whoever the Director & cinematography were cared enough about using filmaking to convey meaning that ruby's glasses sometimes don't have lenses (I'm assuming because they were thinking about how light reflects off of them; which would mean every time it did reflect was a choice)

32:51 Welsh mythology, in particular, leaves a lot of things unexplained. The stories are just "weird", and one presumes people must have _liked_ them that way, and their inexplicability is part of their charm. If not, these tales wouldn't have been told, retold and passed on for a millennium or more.

The thing that made this work for me was the fear of abandonment theme, which gave an underlying psychology to the dream logic. If you interpret it in that light, Ruby is the one person who doesn't abandon herself, when everyone else leaves she still has herself. That tracks with her eventually becoming comfortable with her new normal. Personally it's between this and Devil's Chord for my favourite of RTD2 so far.

I think it’s important that we don’t know what the Semperdistans says to people to scare them away because it is, to me, representing something irrational. Fear of abandonment isn’t rational, but it is all-consuming.

@ingec1736

Ай бұрын

Exactly. It's like in a nightmare, where everyone you love just turns on you. Just because. No reason, you didn't do anything wrong. Isn't that everyones biggest fear.

I liked this episode. I have a few gripes with it, but it's generally a good one. Not my favorite this season. I like "Devils Chord" and "Boom" more, but I still like it a lot. This episode left so many things unanswered, but I don't have a problem with that. I hate the notion, that everything has to be tied up with a nice little knot in the end. Sometime things can and should be left open for interpretation. This is definitely not one of the gripes I had. My first nitpick is that this episode felt a bit slow in the middle. We are so used to getting fast, action heavy media, that it feels weird, when something takes its time. That's totally up to me though and I don't fault the episode for that. You can learn and condition yourself to overcome those notions and I want to, because getting the stuff we're trained to consume comes with a whole bunch of different problems I hate much more. So learning to accept a slower pace is something good. And once I rewatched it not expecting that fast pace, I was way more comfortable. The second thing is something, that has nothing to do with this episode. But where is the Doctor? And I don't mean Ncuti, I mean David Tennant. When Ncuti disappeared there should still be a Doctor out there since David bigenerated. And I get that the David Tennant Doctor is in quasi retirement, but that works because he knows there is still a Doctor out there. But Ncutis Doctor is gone and Kate knew it. So Davids Doctor should know as well. And I presume he would at least be a little curious and investigate. And that wouldn't work without him getting in contact with Ruby. So why is David Tennants Doctor uninvolved other than it wouldn't work within this story? But there is also one moment (actually multiplke, but one in particular) I really loved in the episode. And that was when Ruby got into action. Despite everyone abandoning her. Despite being in this situation. When she saw the News about Roger Ap William she sprung into action. And my favorite moment was when she walked down the street, turned around to her semperdistans follower and said "Come on. We have work to do." I love this moment so much, because of what it tells us about Ruby.

@nealjroberts4050

Ай бұрын

That's generally why I assumed it wasn't the Doctor gone but Ruby. This essentially was a universe built around her and built to be destroyed. It's why everyone ran away because the Old Woman showed who Ruby was.

There is age make-up on Ruby at 40, but it's subtle. They went the George McFly route instead of the Lorraine McFly route.

38:53 It was weird for me to hear RTD say that the universe is becoming more fantastical now because as far as I knew, the Whoniverse already had fantastical elements, as you’ve listed. Remember that one episode of _Torchwood_ that had actual fairies?

@lexihopes

Ай бұрын

It was always on the soft side of sci fi and drew from things that are traditionally fantasy, yeah. I think the difference is things were still explained with technobabble or the beings were actually aliens and even if the doctor didn't know them he was able to come up with an explanation and even if he couldn't come up with an explanation (like the devil) he could fathom that there was one (even if he didn't look for it). Now it's "this is explicitly NOT how things are supposed to work" = magic = fantasy. Something like that. As someone who isn't a big fan of hard sci fi it's not that different though. But I think I get what people mean. (Not sure about faeries in torchwood; couldn't get into that show.)

As I said before, I was thoroughly whelmed. I found it to be less than the sum of its parts. I didn’t dislike any part of it. I just didn’t think it came together at the end. I’m glad that some people really do like it though, as it feels close to something I’d love, it just didn’t get there.

@lexihopes

Ай бұрын

Same. I didn't dislike any part of it AND I loved many parts of it. And yet, I don't feel it's quite working as a whole. I speculate about things that aren't quite working elsewhere, but it feels like it's quite possible that they're just easy to grab onto. I'm not sure fixing them would make it completely work as a whole. I'm glad other people like it though. I haven't noticed many comments from people who seem to actually dislike it either, mostly just people it's not coming together for.

"Come on, we've got work to do." That line and that moment, with Labi Siffre's "Watch Me" rising in the background, was when the episode won me over completely. It captures a moment I had a couple of years ago, when I had a quiet acceptance that this is the path that I'm on now, and the shadow that's been looming over me for my entire life wasn't going to go away. So instead of running away, or hiding, we may as well work together. This episode managed to hit a lot of people particularly hard in the feels for a lot of different reasons. I loved your review, I loved Jessie Genders review, both captured the essence of what made this episode one of the greats. Is one of those episodes where to enjoy it, you really have to just "let the mystery be." It was such a haunting, beautiful, personal episode of television. "Watch me when I'm on my own See me falling like the snow Come and be the things you are I'm still falling, but not quite so far" Labi Siffre's "Watch Me"

The pub looked just like the first Welsh pub I went in. I LOL when the man said 'for god sake don't let her cook ' .Because that land lady enjoyed cooking and eating people. She was on Torchwood.

@hotdog1214

Ай бұрын

And that exact pub was used in Torchwood's Countrycide episode.

@badfairy9554

Ай бұрын

Awesome@@hotdog1214 thanks

So glad you liked it. I thought it was the best of the season so far. Im still 95% sure that Susan Twist is not a thing, just an inside joke that they have the same actress for completely unrelated characters, with Ruby's line just a little wink to us. People are gonna be upset again when there's no explanation for her appearances in universe.

This episode felt like an episode of The Twilight Zone (even the title kinda sounds like a TZ episode title), and I mean that as a compliment

I loved it. Certain elements became a bit easy to figure out later on but that didn't detract from the overall episode. For example, it was obvious once Ruby aged enough that some sort of reset would happen. The people running away from the 'woman' was hilarious, especially Susan Twist and it's great that they took her further this time. Millie also did a great job of carrying the episode. My one very mild disappointment was that I wish they'd spent more time with the village and it's villagers as they were great. However, I get that would have changed the story too much.

@Elwaves2925

Ай бұрын

I disagree a little with your reasoning behind Ruby and Roger ap Gwillem. It wasn't the sole or main purpose of why she was going through everything but it was more than Ruby just finding reasoning behind it. The Doctor broke the circle but he immediately apologised and started to put things right. Ruby read the notes but didn't do the same. She then had to lead a life of penance (without anyone she knew) and do something good with that life to show she was worthy. That's why she didn't return after Gwillem was dealt with and effectively had to reach the moment of death, so that she could save herself and the Doctor. At least that's my take on it all.

BTW the running away: I think Ruby has a perception filter on her. I think the filter can’t deal with two Rubys at the same time. So when people focus on the old Ruby it reveals the young one for who/what she is. No one actually talks to the old woman. She never actually interacts with the people who approach her. She just keeps making gestures. They get close, and look back, then they freak out. Same for Kate. She focused on the old version, then turned back, sees something, gets angry and leaves. Carla gets scared, then mad, like she has been betrayed. And she remarks “she looks how she looks” “she looks like what she is” as if her perception is altered when focusing on old Ruby, but then, looks back and freaks. So what do they see when they look back? Is she the Trickster’s daughter as some have hypothesized? Or something worse?

I am so relieved you loved this episode. I was beginning to get a little worried. I absolutely adore this episode. It is easily one of my all time fav DW episodes. I like the mystery and that we fill in what we think it all means.

I feel that Susan Twist is being played as the Mark Leonard of Doctor Who. She’s playing out the trope of genre tv shows using the same actor to play multiple characters throughout a series, and we are expected to just go with it.

I also love the dark Fairy Tale tone and that there is no explanation. RTD wants to create a supernatural aura; one that feeds off the primal fears of humanity, and keep the audience in the figurative dark - a saying from a collective memory of a time where we huddled around fires and were afraid of what was in the literal dark. Still, the Sci-fi fan in me can’t help but compare this to Donnie Darko where a tangent universe was created in which other characters had to play their part to help Donnie create balance and bring back the primary universe. Of course that movie has two version, one an extended cut with added explanation as the director Richard Kelly wanted the audience to understand the mechanics of the mystery.

Yeah, I too really liked this one. Showed me that RTD still got it. A fascinating story with a very good sense of dark magic and mystery. And I think that the amount of information we are given are just right as it leaves so much space for interpretation yet the story itself is also fully resolved. Yeah, I would like RTD to go dark more often, he plays really well there.

Genuinely believe 73 yards should've been its own mini spin off series to properly explore whatever BRILLIANT stuff was going on here

@HuntingViolets

Ай бұрын

That would still be a cool thing to do down the line. Although the more I think about it, the more I do cherish it as it is.

@Elwaves2925

Ай бұрын

Not sure about a spin-off but I did think it could make a great two parter, if they had enough episodes. Set the first one fully in Wales, then have Ruby head home for the second episode.

I think your point about how Ruby has to decide what to do in the face of the inexplicable (and that this is the core of the story) is a good one to emphasize. That's actually the reason I never want to learn what the woman said, and the reason I don't think there's a 'findable' answer to it. If it could have been possible for Ruby to 'figure out' what the woman was saying, and she just didn't for some reason, it would make the episode weaker. The Woman has to be completely incomprehensible for that core idea to land.

I have to say, when I finished this episode the first time my first thought was "huh... okay... I guess..." I loved the premise, I loved the horror vibe. I liked the time skips... but it lost me at the very end. I didn't need an explanation of what was said, but leaving this unanswered + the act that it was Ruby bothered me. This is going to be one of those episodes that will make much more sense once the season is done and I hate it if that is the case. If we find out that Ruby is some kind of Demigod or what not and that she had that power to create and resolve paradoxes the whole time,... I don't know. The episode grew on me since I first seen it. But as you said in another review. The feeling I had the first time is still valid.

The fairy circle any other time is nothing, but this was at the border of land and sea. The events of Blue Yonder made this real. They mentioned another spirit . So it's another magic thing

I know this wasn't the reason, but, me, being someone that doesn't look my age, like, I look 15 years younger, it's nice to see that so I also liked that they didn't use any make up or prosthetics. 😊

ALSO THIS EPISODE! IM SO GLAD YOU GEL WITH IT “dark fairytale” is EXACTLY IT!

Brilliant episode! With my ADD, a lot of what I watch goes in one eye and out the other. This is a story that's going to haunt me. I love when Magick is ominous and unknown. And when the ordinary becomes threatening. She's just an old woman, but she's terrifying - to UNIT! Then, as the tale unfolds, all the pieces fit so perfectly. And there are a lot of pieces in this puzzle. But oh no... Some of the pieces are missing. Brilliant storytelling!

Loved the atmosphere, loved the creepiness, loved the fact that RTD is willing to let Millie Gibson just be amazing… But I cannot judge the quality of the episode overall when not one - NOT ONE - of the dozens upon dozens of weird mystery-box enigmas was resolved. Until those things are actually paid off, how can I possibly judge the storytelling? This could be brilliant, or it could turn out to be the nonsensical fever dreams of RTD on acid. At this point, I have no way to tell.

I love your reading that this happening has NOTHING to do with Roger at the start, that's just what Ruby chose to do with it, but I struggle to see past what a coincidence it would be for the name 'Mad Jack' to be written on the scroll

@lexihopes

Ай бұрын

That's the biggest thing for me, and the way Vera puts it that whether you liked it hinges on whether you make the tonal shift from trying to figure this out to just accepting it made it clearer: the Mad Jack name coincidence kept me from making that shift, because I was trying to figure out how he was related to the Mad Jack of the fairy ring. (And I missed some other things that I really wasn't supposed to miss because of it like I thought for longer than I should that maybe Marti was a victim of the Mad Jack of the fairy ring that was somehow also brought here to try to stop him and while in retrospect what they were hinting was obvious while I was watching I thought they were hinting something else so i missed it). I do like the theory that the fairy ring was using Roger and Ruby as substitutes for the fairy ring and Mad Jack to play out a story and trap Mad Jack again. That would explain the nickname (maybe originally he didn't have it) but in that case I DO think they needed something that made it easier for watchers to reach that conclusion (and a bunch of other stuff can still be unanswered). If it's not that or if they want more ambiguity then the name coincidence is still really hanging me up and it really wasn't necessary since she could already just remember what The Doctor said about him without the Mad Jack relation.

my personal theory is that this happened in some kind of fairy realm. time moved differently and this whole other life happened within that moment and then kind of reset when it ended. that is as much as i think about it

@The-Busy-Beeeee

Ай бұрын

It makes sense since the doctor and Donna opened up the universe for the supernatural becoming true essentially hence the things are becoming more supernatural and ofc the powerful entities. I think it’s good we don’t exactly SEE the fairies either. My theory is the old women WAS a fairy

Regardless of the pub mockery I think that the cycle occurred because of the fairy ring being broken.

@SarcyBoi41

Ай бұрын

For sure. If nothing else, the Doctor definitely disappeared because of the circle. Most likely they were both being punished for their defilement - the Doctor broke the circle so got blipped out of existence (and possibly given his own torment by the Fey) and Ruby read the notes so was forced to live a lifetime of her worst fear - abandonment.

There's a line in Babylon 5... and maybe it's from one of the comics. A character wants to do something that could save lives, but might do more harm than good in the long run. They rhetorically ask a Vorlon, "I don't have a choice, do I?" The Vorlon responds, "You always have a choice. But only one."

I have a sinking feeling that Ruby will be revealed as another Timeless Child...

@The-Busy-Beeeee

Ай бұрын

She might be a child of the entities tho

Bravo, couldn't agree more. You perfectly articulated everything I thought and felt about the episode and the discourse surrounding it. 10/10, easily my favorite episode of the era thus far

I LOVE this episode. It’s my favourite of this season so far. While I don’t need an explanation for anything that happened, I did see one that I like and could possibly work. The theory is that the Entity is - at least in part - a manifestation of Ruby’s fears. She has a deep dread that there something is wrong with herself. She isn’t sure what it is; maybe it’s a personality defect or perhaps she’s a monster and doesn’t know it. However, whatever this unknown ‘thing’ is, she worries that if other people knew what it was, they would all hate and/or fear her. Ruby doesn’t know what is ‘wrong’ with herself so the Entity stays far away, vague and unfocused. She doesn’t get to hear what the Entity says again because she has no idea what it could be. It could just say hello and Ruby’s fear manifests the rest. As Kate said, “We see something inexplicable and invent the rules to make it make it work.” Unfortunately, Ruby might have accidently done that literally and made people react to the Entity that way. Of course, that’s just one theory and it doesn’t explain everything but I did find it an interesting take.