I love these guess the moves for 7 wonders and for Duel. I think this game lends itself to "what is the right move now" type of tactics

@WonderfulPlays

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks, I agree they have been fun for me.

At the start of the third age, Blue should have bought the triple red and abandoned green. With red having theology, he can defend against green and his most likely win is red. Blue had a decent chance of winning on Blue. Double points, slightly less money but slightly better economy. (12:29). My 2 cents

@WonderfulPlays

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, this would have been an interesting line. I hadn't thought about that, good catch.

@Pistol_Star

3 жыл бұрын

Hey there. I am Pistol Star. Correct. This was the only good move blue had. I anyway like to get both visible 3 VP greens up there with the combination of Mathematics for a combined score of 15 VP's in case I don't win prior to that via military.

More vids like this would be great

@WonderfulPlays

3 жыл бұрын

I'll try to redo this format in the future!

Thanks, really good commentary as usual... My 2 cents: 12:23 - I thought blue was in the lead at this point, since red was forced to use his refreshes on the two remaining greens. Which means that blue was free to choose as many blue / purple points as possible, for which he is already in the lead in. 15:06 was when I thought the game was decided, by the brilliant move to refresh on the blue card (instead of competing on blue). At this point, the chance of getting a red hidden card was very high since very few reds had shown up so far in the round.

@WonderfulPlays

3 жыл бұрын

At 12:23 I thik it's lost because of the instant red3, the only option for blue is if another red is hidden behind red and green IMO. And Because of Theology and points on his unbuilt stages red has some hidden points. 15:06 I fully agree, that's one of the Pistol Star's great moves, I'd never do that like this.

@AnandMehta111

3 жыл бұрын

@@WonderfulPlays Agree, that's also a good point.

@Pistol_Star

3 жыл бұрын

Hello. I am Pistol Star. 12:23 She should just play the 3 shield. After that she wouldn't have to worry about military anymore as it would have been impossible for red to win via military from that point on. Only 9 shields remaining but 10 needed. I have 0 shields in my wonders. So in this case even with 3 extra turn wonders entering age 3 I would have had only a chance winning age 3 via military by pulling off Strategy in case she starts with the lucky 3 shields open. And let's don't forget that a science win was still possible for blue which is hindering my abilities to some degree on military and even civil anyways. Dream case scenario for her would be to take a green in turn 1 age 3 next to a non red, non green card. And behind her green pick would be a guild card securing her not to reveal a game winning/losing card and I would have been in a very ugly spot. Essentially having to play extra turn on the single card after the nice guild card to ensure that I can see the next 4 unrevealed cards with using a single extra turn wonder. Still fine position most often than not but quite ugly :) My idea at the mid of age 2 was to win on either military or points. I think that had the highest likelihood of winning. That's why I chose at 10:50 the cheat on the Great Library to simultaneously deny this insanely strong civil card to blue which is also a very bad card for myself plus I will pull off either Strategy (nearly 100% win in both military or civil end games or a civil boost which also increases my civil winning chances the earlier I get the token). If I can't find Strategy I would either choose Urbanism or Masonry. Both are ok. Also the earlier I play the Great Library the earlier I have information which path is the strongest while in age 3 and even a bit in age 2 regarding urbanism. I still have 2 strong extra turns with 1 upgraded wonder. I can use green to score myself and red scores quite badly for her and she must play red quite aggressively which hurts her chances of winning by points and science. Keep in mind that I don't really need glass from Piraeus as glass only costs me 2 coins. It's quite a good deal to never had to invest a turn into acquiring glass and still only having to pay 2 coins for each glass. So in case I will play a civil game I will usually try to pull off Pyramids and Sphinx if possible. Also I wouldn't have played the extra turn via Great Library in age 2 if I didn't think I had a good chance on winning a civil game. If I thought only a military win would be possible I would have saved that extra turn obviously and used it in age 3 for my first extra turn. In case she had played the 3 shields red card on the left then my response would be to play the revealed guild if it is at least decent. After that I would hope that she would go for the green card. Then I could play any revealed card or play the nice 6 VP blue card on the left and I simply stack the 2 visible later greens for 15 VP's thanks to Mathematics with my 2 remaining extra turns. Mathematics can often be a big, big civil token when The Great Library is in play (2 thirds of games feature the Great Library) because then it is rather easy to get a total of 3 tokens or even more. So green cards become on average substantially stronger when the Great Library is in the game. I had 5 progress tokens a couple times before. Once even nearly 6 haha even though there are only 5 available spaces on the boardgamearena implementation. Things become more complicated if the guild is not so good and she chooses to buy the 6 VP on the left herself. Then I would play an extra turn on the green which alone already secures me to get both other identical greens without spending any additional extra turn if I wanted to take these. We can know that by simply counting cards which I do a lot. I can additionally still play one more extra turn later on. Usually you want to threaten 2 ways to win vs opponents 1 way to win. My favourite threat is red+green attack. Very hard to defend for the opponent. I even had a couple of games where i could choose in age 3 if I wanted to securely win at any of the 3 ways :D If that happens I always choose military as it is my favourite way to win. 15:06 the game was already won for me at that point no matter what happens next. I could have also discarded the 3 shields and still won 100% surely. I must use my extra turn to deny the green on the left anyways. So it's always better to use it on the right instead of the left to automatically deny the green on the left later plus seeing another (winning) card on the right or earning sometimes much needed extra coins with that right card discard or build whatever action earns more coins. Then next she had no other choice but playing the Town Hall or discarding it (it doesn't matter). Then i discard green on the left becoming super rich (which in many games is needed to buy the winning cards because of low resources) Then she has to reveal the next 2 cards. If it is no immediate winning red card on the right once again I will simply discard on the left. She then has to reveal the 2 shields + the green card anyways and I win for sure by playing the 2 shields with only using one extra turn in age 3 but with as much money as possible. That last red card would cost me 5 coins. She can't pick up red cards on the way because she must reveal any potential red card to me. Plus she never gets her greens with that 1 extra turn I spent. So thinking ahead in the cards pyramid is often the key. With one extra turn you can often accomplish multiple things at once. Denying all the 2 winning cards for the opponent plus opening up your winnings card(s) for yourself. Keep in mind that in order to do that in age 3 you must usually reveal and survive one card first on the middle right side or the middle left side (depends) and afterwards you are just nearly always winning. That is true when you have 1 or 2 extra turns vs opponents 0. Once you have 3 vs 0 extra turns in age 3 you can even see that card as well instead of your opponent. But at 15:06 it wouldn't have mattered in this example anyways if I chose the extra turn on the right or on the left. Same outcome. I would always win. But overall it is always better to first use the extra turn on the right as it is always working in any circumstance. Let's say I had only 1 extra turn and I needed both greens to win. Then I can only accomplish this by first playing the extra turn on the right side. Any other move is losing. The added benefit is that I can use the follow up card on the right side to earn money which is often needed because the extra turn often costs a good amount of money if we are all in on green (with a former double attack usually. Especially red and green double attack is expensive so you usually have to discard every blue card to make it work) plus the follow up green cards cost money more often than not.

@AnandMehta111

3 жыл бұрын

​@@Pistol_Star​thanks very much for detailed explanation! Great to know how much thinking goes into each move. Would you have a Twitch steam where we can see you play the game and more of the thinking you put into it?

@Pistol_Star

3 жыл бұрын

@@AnandMehta111 You're welcome! I am very glad you liked my explanations. That's in fact a very good idea. I will have to think about it ;) Let's see how many people would want to see that :D

BTW, another reason to pick Law is as a purely defensive move to shut out one avenue of victory from the opponent (although in this case I think blue picked it as their main victory condition).

@WonderfulPlays

3 жыл бұрын

I agree, but for me defensive theology makes more sense.

@Pistol_Star

3 жыл бұрын

@@WonderfulPlays I agree with Theology being the much better pick there. Still even keeping science possible (for her only which is great) and it's just so powerful to still have an extra turn for age 3. A great defensive token in this situation. The main issue I see with the Law pick is that it doesn't do anything in game. I prefer having immediate boosts progress tokens and get law if needed later on or at least threaten it in age 3 in order to achieve more good moves for myself and bad moves for my opponent when it really matters. If I was in blue's position I might have waited with my non extra turn wonders to potentially win the game right away with a theology pick later on. If she has 4 upgraded extra turns then there is nearly no way for me to win other than her making mistakes like rushing her wonders and therefore giving me the chance of winning by military in age 3. My idea from the beginning of the game on was to mainly get the chain greens in order to prevent her getting a cheap Theology. I would always pick theology in this setup myself in age 2 in case she still has a potential to get it for herself. We can pretty much say that the person who will get theology will win the game the majority of the times with this set up.

Great game. Thank you for sharing!

Great stuff!

@WonderfulPlays

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you sir!

used to work for WotC in the very beginning of the company (#13 employee) and love watching your content. very insightful and good flow/discussion in the videos. curious what your last name is and how much MtG did you play?

@WonderfulPlays

2 жыл бұрын

That is a huge compliment coming from you thanks! I haven't played much competitive MTG, but I played with a people that did. I really like drafting and watching drafts, but don't like the playing side as much. Sealed is a lot of fun too!

@larrychatfield

2 жыл бұрын

@@WonderfulPlays agreed! if you know what the Rochester draft is, that is the draft format i designed and named after my hometown. have not played much competitive MtG myself since i worked for the company for a long time and then could not even after I left since i was in R&D and couldn't work on stuff for almost 3 years worth of sets afterwards

@WonderfulPlays

2 жыл бұрын

@@larrychatfield Rochester is great, congrats! I even suggested using it as a house rule to the leaders expansions in my video here: kzread.info/dash/bejne/m2yZzrmSZMypaZs.html

The hide at 11:00 to have a chance to pick strategy I think

@WonderfulPlays

3 жыл бұрын

Okay that actually makes sense! Thanks!

@Pistol_Star

3 жыл бұрын

Hey there. I am Pistol Star. The hide there was mainly to deny a very, very strong civil card (free 9+ VP with either philosophy or Agriculture. We can usually count 6 coins as at least 3 VP's) for blue which is simultaneously a very, very weak card for red while searching for a progress token boost in order to have a very strong Military and Civil double attack later on or simply win via military depending the Pyramid cards structure. We can wait for the Age 3 information and have 3 ways to play. Double Attack, Military Attack or Civil "Attack". I obviously hope for strategy not only for age 3 impact but also to immediately greatly boost my next Walls move and destroy 2 of her coins. Only 60% chance though. Not my favourite chance. I prefer having 2 OP tokens to pull from for a strong 90% chance. Strategy is also a civil killer token later in age 3 eventually making pretty much any card in age 3 OP for ourselves and many of them threaten immediate loss to her or loss of 5 coins at least + VP's. She then would have to defend military on multiple occasions at pretty much any given time in age 3 which hurts her VP's and economy very much. Remember in age 3 she will only have 8 (if she lets me begin) or 9 total moves vs my 11 or 12 moves. Once she blocks military I simply pick up the Points and maybe Greens for Mathematics. Not much at all she can do even in rather good set ups for her. But I still have a 100% chance to either get Strategy, Masonry or Urbanism. These other 2 are alright in this set up as well. So that's why I found this move the best move as it guarantees me a good early boost plus a denial. I prefer having the information of the pull early if I can afford it and especially if I have a move which is blocking a great move from the opponent while still having a great move after the hide. Win Win Situation for me. The only very big downside I just see now is that I don't actually earn anything substantial at all with this move since I still have 4 turns in age 3 left vs her 3 turns regardless of what I do. If I had not played the extra turn the same would have been true. 4 moves for me and 3 for her. And the way the pyramid is structured she now earns 2 of the 3 blue cards instead of the other way around! So I must say in hindsight it was for this very reason a very bad play by myself. If I keep the extra turn I will have 12 vs 8 actions in age 3 in case I play the 2 shields and she wants to start. If she decides to let me start I will have 13 vs 7 turns in age 3 while only being 7 steps away from Military Supremacy! And now I see another big reason why I shouldn't have played that extra turn. I should have simply discarded her green there or discarded the 2 shields there and have the secured starting option in age 3 which I would mostly choose for myself. Then with 3 (upgraded) extra turns, loads of coins in my pocket and 13 vs 7 turns in age 3 a scientific victory is nearly impossible for her to achieve and I should be in great shape for a civil victory. I even still have the options of Military then even if I need 11 shields in case I discard her green which I think would be correct. A maximum of 12 shields are in the game in age 3 and I have an additional 60% chance of pulling strategy out of the Great Library. But I would obviously only do that if I see a secure winning path via military at any point in age 3. I could even at times get all 4 green tokens for Agriculture (Philosophy) + Mathematics + Great Library Token and Theology. That would be an insane score while denying any chance for a science loss.

@WonderfulPlays

3 жыл бұрын

@@Pistol_Star thanks for taking the time and explaining! Very informative and I learned a lot

@Pistol_Star

3 жыл бұрын

​@@WonderfulPlays You're welcome! Thank you so much for this amazing upload! I feel very happy and honoured to be featured in this video :D I really enjoyed watching and listening to your thought processes and guesses. Really great fun! I very much admire this format. I think it is wonderful and great for anyone to improve their game. This is also what I would recommend anyone to do. Replay your losses (even if it hurts) and take your time thinking about the moments where you was unsure what to do or where you felt like you lost the game. Think it through. You already know how the game ended so you will learn a lot what works well and what doesn't in different scenarios or where you had missed win opportunities. The meat of the game lies mainly in age 2 in my opinion. It can become quite complex there and I think nearly everybody on any level produces the most mistakes in this age. Age 3 is usually just the product of your and your opponents decisions from the initial progress token considerations to the wonder draft all the way to the end of age 2. I can assure you that even at the top level a great number of the rather few losses were absolutely winnable. But even the best players make a lot of mistakes at this game. I definitely do :D I can't count the number of losses I replayed where I found at least 1 big mistake. It's insane :) It's rare for me to replay a loss and don't find any mistake. Also spectating the strongest players or watching their replays helps a ton at improving. Try to understand why they do this and that is the key there I think. But don't forget... Sometimes they blunder heavily themselves :D

@WonderfulPlays

3 жыл бұрын

@@Pistol_Star yeah everyone makes mistake from time to time, even chess super grandmasters :)