Johnny. There are some discouraging comments being made aimed at the method of your Madness. This is the thing, Your channel is about "evaluation" as your reloading is centered around the science of ballistics. You provide a visual reproduction of failures as a reference guide to the shooter. also. Your channel is about "discovery" in where a person can save some serious cash by not making mistakes and buying the latest Gee whizz Bullet, powder primer, or even firearm for that matter. I appreciate and applaud you for your content. Here is another thing. Vihtavuory powder would probably appreciate your feedback on your findings with all your data. Keep up the good work, Look what we have found out about Hornady 6.5 Bullets in this video. Good shoot'en to ya. Dave.

@nycreloader

6 жыл бұрын

Thor's Axe777 I agree completely as I’ve been taking notes so glad he is doing the hard work for me. I’ll of course Test after but it’s always great to see what others are doing and what to look out for. Thanks Johnny for all your hard work on this.

Crummy weather to shoot in! But, having a 100+ yard range at your backdoor offsets any empathy I may have... jealousy is such an ugly thing. Stay warm and be safe.

Remington recognized this problem 30 years ago when they came out with the 308 Remington Bench Rest Brass.It was a basic brass meant to be shortened and necked down to be a competitor to the PPC class cartridges People were using it as 308 small primer brass looking for a bit more accuracy. They were getting the same hang fires and misfires. This issue of primer and powder matching is so important that Speer used to specify that magnum primers be used with all ball powders in rifle loads.

I don't have a 6.5 Creedmoor but I still love to watch your videos. It is just plain interesting !!

Hey. Keep up the good work. This series on chasing hang/mis fires is very informative. I like this kind of stuff because it’s a learning experience even outside the realm of 6.5 Creed.

Great topic! Love the way you thoroughly test your theories and ideas. Best loading channel on KZread!

Gees! This is getting as exciting as the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Can't wait for the next one.

This is the bullet Hornady uses in their American Gunner cartridge. This is the factory round I have found shoots best in my Compass. Better than ELD-M, ELD-X, Berger. I usually have been shooting 3 shot groups but have shot several dime sized groups with this factory round. Its awesome because it is the cheapest I can find also. Just starting in handloading and LOVE your channel. First load I am planning to work up is this bullet with Hornady brass, H4350 from 38-42 grains, and Federal 210 primers. Thanks for all you do!

Great work, keep these type of videos coming.... Very interesting results... Especially with the 7.5 Remingtons primers...Seeing that they are very popular with F-class & benchrest competition shooters...

once you have the data from your next test video it might be helpful to the community to take those primers and powder combos that produce failures and test them in lapua and hornaday brass as the flash holes vary quite a bit - what you are doing is so very excellent for the shooting community - having info that helps keep us far away from failure is really good info - reviewing the data across the spectrum is very helpful - even as is shown here we see an opportunity to consider options on the basis of standard deviation - the next video should show if the trend continues with higher velocities and such - thx for doing the hard work for us.

Excellent test! The results of Rem7-1/2 contradict the internet world, which states that primer is on the weak side of small rifle primers. This further proves you don't know until you test. Looking forward to part 3. For hunting, I'd use large rifle brass. Keep up the good work.

Absolutely love your insatiable curiosity.

Iv’e been looking forward to this.

Great video Johnny. Keep up the good work man!

Good info on primers in this video - Thanks for doing the legwork...Great day to ya..!! FC Steve

Very interesting. Looking forward to the next one.

Good vid JRB, I enjoy the testing and find the information very useful as I too like running small primers in 6.5 Creedmoor. Looking forward to the other powders/primer test also. This is the kind of test and information that may save someone’s hunting trip. Thumbs up for sure. What do you think about sticking with the same powder for one more test and using the primers that failed, but load it with a hotter charge? I think the increased case captivity of a hotter charge MAY clear up the hang-fires. I don’t think many people are gonna load this round to 2450 FPS anyway, (at least not with a hunting bullet) so the increase in powder would seem more practical as it definitely has room to go up. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for the great work man, keep it up. I wonder if there's a reliable way to measure primer output temp? I have a FLIR camera I can use that would show the entire temp range of a given photo, I'll check if it does video or what other options it would have. Maybe come up with a rig in the vise to pop some primers.

Great info!! Have you done a test like that for large primers? I was neat to see how just changing the primer changed the groups.

Yes! Rl-26, I've been hearing a bit about that with 140 and 147 grain bullets. Can't wait. A temperature sensitivity test with that and Rl-17 would be quite interesting to see.

Looking forward to Varget, and 4350 excellent. I was sad about having the flu this week biting at the bit to load the Creedmoor today 15 degrees in Georgia, snow, the great weather to shoot dead still for chronograph and accuracy and I have a sick but getting better, lucky me. You bet I'll be watching your videos. You may even get done before me a little selfish I guess but hey you're making the video. It's funny the most misfires I've ever had Sellers and Billet 12-gauge two and three quarter 11 double OO buck and it was 5 degrees at 25 yards the last four shells of a 9 came out the barrel and hit the backstop still in the wadding. The rest of the case of ammo perfect. Except it was shot 3 months later 55/65 degrees.

Very interesting test! Thanks for sharing with me.

I have experiance a similar problem while using St Marks ball powder (748, H335, CFE223) and Murom primers (also sold as Wolf and PMC), in .223. Same loads ran fine with CCI 450 and 400. Temperature was always mild - nowhere near as cold as your test. I put it down to those primers not having a hot enough or long enough flame to ignite that particular chemistry reliably.

Good to know. 7.5 primers have been my go to for a long time now. Mainly because they are cheap and everywhere. Great real world testing! That 6.5 is shooting Excellent!

Wish you would try some Wolf primers in your test. I bought several Thousand during the oBozo Shortage erra and also have several of the S&Bs. Don't want to get too many round loaded up with suspect primers. I am shooting mostly hand guns though 9, 38/357, 40, 45acp, and 45LC.

Good video. Look forward to tomorrow’s. Once you do get this all figured out. A video with same powder and charge weights but different seating depths would be nice. Curious how accurate u can make a 200 gun 👍🏻

I think you are going to really like the Hornady 140 gr BTHP bullets. I have shot a lot of Hornadys factory ammo in this particular projectile with fantastically accurate results. I can't wait for the videos!

Good video keep up the great ideas.

Johnny I apologise for this in advance as it's completely off topic but once you get all this 6.5 creedmoore or grendel or what ever cartridge your on now (I'm attempting to be funny) done with I was wondering if you could do a video on the 100 grain 308 bullet on midsouth shooters supply it's there cheapest 308 bullet I believe and I happened to notice it after ordering and I'm tapped out currently but you could make a fun video out of it for a future plinking round for an AR-10? it's definitely on my next order list. Hope this isn't too far off base thanks.

Love the channel. And the format. That said, I think I know the reason for the hang fires with the small rifle primer brass. Those cases where specifically designed for compressed match loads. The theory is that by using a small primer it allows the powder (not the prmer) to better control flame propagation and burn rate in the case since you as the reloader have more control over powder selection and charge but not the primers functionality . I'm sure if you did the same test with loads that had a case fill of 95% or greater the hang fires problem would disappear.

Johnny I would love to see a shootout of the Hornady 140gr Match vs. the Hornady 140gr ELD- Match!

@mattbennett9584

5 жыл бұрын

In the factory rounds, my Compass likes the Match better than the ELD-M. Havent hand loaded them yet.

I wish i could find remington 7 1/2 in France, i have a lot off N550 that worked with my 6.5 creedmoor and heavy bullets but with cci br-2 and hornady brass. Now i'm hesitating with my lapua brass... However all is fine with n150 and 123 grs and cci 450. I will test with 400 and br-4, the federal match primers are almost impossible to catch for me. I'm also looking forward for the same test with reloader 17 ( wish is reloader swiss rs-60 apparently). Thanks for the infos, keep up the nice work you do in our place and don't listen to the killjoy's

Did you get primer cratering on the large rifle primers? I get it on both large and small primers in both my AR 6.5 creedmoor and my Bergara HMR 6.5 creedmoor.

These hangfires are only happening with this powder and this cartridge? May need to investigate further with a different cartridge as well?

Hey Johnny, I'm a little late here, but... my 2 cents. Yes, you can get a 100 FPS drop with cold weather. I've had 4 inch drops at 100 yards just from a temperature drop. I'm thinking the 80% fill in your cases is allowing the powder to lay with an air pocket the length of the casing and when the primer is ignited, the flame travels all the way down to the neck and then goes out with out igniting the powder .

curious question johnny, ever plan on doing 10mm ?

Since the CCI 41 is a 5.56mm primer, is it a military grade (i.e., milspec) primer? If so, it makes sense that it would be robust.

It seams to me ( gut feeling only) that you are 150- 200 fps bellow from what N550 is capable of. If you would load at near full case would there be any hangfires?

Seems to me your making the case for why Hornady went with a LR primer.

I have experienced many hang fires and failures with CCI LR primers.. Wish you would have made contact with me after my last posting about CCI Primers and failures..

I would love to see a test with some of the Russian primers the benchrest guys love!!!

have you contacted VV on this to see what they say?

Johnny's Reloading Bench great video as always, but, I would like to see the last variable besides the primers removed from the equation and see what happens at the higher load densities in the 40-41gr range I spoke about in the earlier video. In today's video, you've had 2 of the 3 primers I've used with N550 give you problems (WSR, and the Fed GM, although I don't use the GM AR, I use standard GM small rifle) in the same brass I use, but I don't use such a low charge of powder, so my case fill is between 95-105% with the loads I'm running. They've run fine for me to date down to the high 20s and low 30s all the way up to 110+ degrees. When loaded with the right primers, you've found that N550 IS a great powder for accuracy, with 2 different bullets now, so we know the powder isn't "technically" at fault :) Love the video, and as I always tell my friends "be safe, and keep your powder dry"! Take care my friend!

@wiryone1

6 жыл бұрын

jimhans1 I keep wondering if you had a compressed charge and the kernels were all held in place around the flash hole very positively and then this test was repeated, what would be the outcome. We know now that there are differences in small primers under these low temp conditions. I know Johnny tried the poly fill without conclusive results, but what if the poly did not apply the same amount of force to the rest of the powder volume to keep the granules next to the flame front from shifting or rotating.

@jimhans1

6 жыл бұрын

wiryone1 not all of my loads with N550 are compressed, but all have a very high case fill. I think presently with Johnny, it's a compound issue between cold primers and low case fill, which is why I would like to see what happens with him having a load of higher case fill. The 5 shots he took with case filler in the loads didn't have any hangfires even though it was exactly the same load but with filler added.

Maybe a small rifle magnum could reliably light n550?

I'm curious about the humidity at your reloading bench area. Do you think reloading area humidity could affect results, especially with very cold weather?

@JohnnysReloadingBench

6 жыл бұрын

I think humidity could be a HUGE deal in a lot of cases. My house is pretty "leaky" when it come to air, so it concerns me sometimes in the summer. In the winter, though...it's not a problem. My furnace thermostat shows humidity and it's always extremely low when the weather is this cold. I like the way you're thinking!

@pawswet9476

5 жыл бұрын

It would be interesting to know if there were any extremes in the storage temperature history of the powder. Any chance it sat in a truck for a few hours in 100F + heat? Hard to know what happened to it before purchase. Wonder if there is another test (quicker than loading with mild primers) to identify skunked powder?

Johnny. What contributes to high number deviation? Is it the powder, case length, neck tension or all? I am doing a ocw with the 147gr eld - m and my deviations were 2 digits in the 20-40s. What am I doing wrong?

@yissnakklives8866

6 жыл бұрын

22Virgo66 powder ignition rate (and primer) and accuracy of each charge weight seem to have the most impact, but neck tension, seating depth, bullet type, imperfections in the barrel, crown, etc...are all contributing factors.

Love all the content. Try out half baked creedmoor rolls off the tongue better

Why did the CCI 450 shots seem so much louder than the others?

@JohnnysReloadingBench

6 жыл бұрын

Sorry abou t that. It was an audio problem. I forgot to make it clear in the video. I forgot to hit RECORD on my audio recorder and had to use the audio from the camera for that group.

Johnny, after warching your video and experiencing this myself in the cold with varget and BR4 primers, it is my belief that this problem is caused by the trio of case fill, primer, and temperature. At the time i belelieved the hang fires and misfire to be causes by excessive headspacing seeing how sized brass compared to new lapua unsized brass was .007 in some cases. However thinking back I rememberes as i worked up with varget in half grain increments the problem went away and problem went away at the upper end of charge weights. If the problem happens at low case fills with varget in your next video I beleive you have found perhaps the cause seeing how varget is a "extreme" powder and should not be that effected by temperarure. And to eliminate anybodies suspision of humidity on the effect i can confirm that isn't an issue in my case seeing how my heater is almost constantly on and dryness is an issue living in canada with the extreme cold we've been having where I live

Same as Part 1, 200 is the best primer for that load.

that gun likes those bullets

I'd like to propose another FACTOR to consider for the hang/miss fires - a weak firing pin spring. T/C actually makes a stronger spring for the Compass. Why? Also, why would some primers work when others don't? Degree of hardness is my theory.

@chuckfinley3152

6 жыл бұрын

I wonder if the firing pin depth is adjustable too like a savage

@njgrplr2007

6 жыл бұрын

If it is, it's not mentioned in the manual. tcarms.com/pdfs/uploads/manuals/TC_Compass_Manual_11-30-2015_web.pdf

@JohnnysReloadingBench

6 жыл бұрын

The primers are igniting just fine. See the previous videos for up-close pictures.

@chuckfinley3152

6 жыл бұрын

njgrplr2007 if it was shallow firing pin depth or light strikes it wouldn't set the milspec primers off i think

@njgrplr2007

6 жыл бұрын

I did see that they ignited, but there is clearly a difference in the way they're igniting, right? I got to thinking about this after remembering the "Firing Pin Impact Study" that is often referenced by David Tubb. It says that consistent ignition is dependent on the shape of the firing pin, consistent firing pin travel, hitting the primer with the same kinetic energy and the same momentum. www.davidtubb.com/index.php?route=account/download/free&download_id=28 Apparently, some firearm designs are much better than others in that regard. It also stands to reason that some primer designs would work better with different firearms. To quickly eliminate the gun/primer combo as the problem, get someone to test your rounds in their 6.5 CM (with the appropriate headspace of course). And having said that, I will now wish you good luck and shut up. ;)

This is funny, just went with my neighbor to buy Ruger precision rifle yep Creedmoor. Also four boxes of ammo 2 shoot and then just next size. Your failures is a lifesaver for me thank you for showing your failures well not yours the primers. I had not worked up a load for his rifle yet. You can imagine going to this extent, setting up the dial indicator to check run out. I always double check weights of powder. Of course mocking up around to see where the headspace in Shell length Dimensions should be. Then and only then carry him out to my range and have hangfire's well you know how that be. I have all the same different cases of primers and always use one lot number, you know the drill. I'm new to this internet Channel thing. Thank you very much I don't trust someone who does not show the the success and the failures. You saved me a lot of embarrassment and a lot of work. Always load three to five rounds to test before I finish. In 40 years I've never had a Hang Fire I know I got one coming someday. Well except on Factory loaded ammo. Thank you you're a lifesaver or at least for me this week. Thank you please keep making these videos! Now the person that made the comment below me about why show failures! This why, also I am a master shooter in pistol NRA. Shoot enough and something will malfunction.

You should test another double base nitroglycerin powder. Edit - OK cool, I see now that you will be. Also I wonder if maybe you just got a "bad" batch of that powder. Maybe a fresh can would show different results

You might be using the pistol version. The top of the 1k box specifies “small rifle” or “small pistol” and the side always says “rifle or pistol”

Should be an outstanding bullet. It's what my MPA rifle is cut for, and I dont think they'd cut a barrel for a less than fantastic round

@sbrownell3910

6 жыл бұрын

I see something interesting in your brass, SRP vs LRP. The flash hole in the SRP seems awfully large. By comparison, my Peterson SRP brass has a 1.5 mm hole, much smaller than the flash hole in LRP brass. In fact, if you don't have the correct de-capping pin, you'll hog out the flash hole trying to remove the spent primer. The reason for the smaller hole is to increase the gas velocity upon detonation, and help with ignition. When using ball powder however, a SRP is not recommended in a cartridge this large. So my question is, were your Star Line SRP brass flash holes damaged during de-capping, or are they unusually large?

well I know not to buy that powder even that my local shop has it on sale for 20 dollars a pound.

@jimhans1

6 жыл бұрын

gumby 8888 where?? I will buy it all and have it shipped to me!!

@gumby-vk4mo

6 жыл бұрын

its a in store mark down at sportsman's ware house the website is much higher price the Kennewick wa store phone number is 509) 736-2200 was just in their last night seen the mark down good luck

@jimhans1

6 жыл бұрын

gumby 8888 thank you, I will call them asap. Appreciate it my friend

@jimhans1

6 жыл бұрын

gumby 8888 guess the sale must have ended, he said it's $34.97/lb now. So I passed on it, thank you for the quick reply though.

You should checkout Peterson brass they have small primer pockets that have the small flash hole. This is the brass I’ve been using for the creedmoor with the CCI 450’s and no problems. Here’s a link where you can check it out. Much more affordable than Lapua. www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/76155

My comment during the first half of this series was that while the primers were an obvious First choice to investigate, I myself, would have investigated the powder because of prior experience with contaminated powders presenting similarly to what Johnny found. I didn't, however, think about how the cold might affect the brisance of the primers themselves. It has long been known that extreme cold AND extreme heat affect powder performance. Too cold and automatics sometimes fail to cycle. Too hot and a normal factory load can show signs of extreme pressures in the brass. These facts are historical and most powder companies have tried to minimize that effect for years. Australian made 223 ammo seems to have actually solved that problem. Even performance from 32°F to 100°F. The point I'm making is that while temperature is known to affect powder, I didn't think about temperature having an identical effect on primers - and of course it would......... I just didn't think about that. While temperature effect on powder has been investigated before, I think that Johnny is breaking new ground by checking the effect of temperature on the brisance of primers. So, keep up the good work. Knowledge is beneficial to all.

I'm surprised you had hang fires with the CCI BR4's. I've used the for 20+ years in high power competition shooting. We are talking 1000+ a year and never had one hang fire. Must be something you're doing.

Someone I know has had light strikes with the same rifle in 30-06. May be a manufacturer problem.

@JohnnysReloadingBench

6 жыл бұрын

The primers go off.

@offense51

6 жыл бұрын

Could be a symptom. You had a couple that didn't want to fire at all. Odd to have that many hang fires with that many different primers. Maybe TC has an idea. Had this only happen once in a 45-70 with CCI for me. I'm working on my creedmoor BLK out and Grendel so watch these videos all the time.

@stephenmitchell3569

6 жыл бұрын

Johnny's Reloading Bench you have the patience of Job.

First!

What investigation? Hangfire, weak primers, poor density powder charge, maybe 65 or 70% of powder capacity! Give your head a shake my friend!

I'm probably alone on this one, but why are you chasing failure? I like seeing what works. I get the primer test but it seems like your headed down a rabbit hole

@MrPaco1013

6 жыл бұрын

Jacob Deem I agree with you. Just don't see the point. Find something that works and stick with it.

@JohnnysReloadingBench

6 жыл бұрын

What method do you suggest for finding the very best primer for 6.5 Creedmoor? How can I find out which powders might fail on me in cold weather? I don't want to find out I chose wrong when I'm out in the woods with a monster buck in my scope that I've been chasing for months!

@jacobdeem8187

6 жыл бұрын

Johnny's Reloading Bench your testing primers with a powder that clearly doesn't work well. How are you going to pick a primer based on that?

@jacobdeem8187

6 жыл бұрын

And at anemic velocities

@ajbranson2

6 жыл бұрын

I think your method for finding the best primer is fine, but I want to know (and I think everyone is wondering), why you keep chasing the Vihtavuori N150 when its clearly a crappy powder? Love your vids btw.