I love my 51's. I will be getting a 61 for my son, but he's currently serving in the Navy and I'm a Marine Veteran, so I gotta pretend I don't like him for a while. 😆

@kidbach

4 жыл бұрын

How dare he break a family tradition. Lol. Semper Fi, Teufel Hunden.

@6Sally5

4 жыл бұрын

Hahaha! Maybe he’ll be a Corpsman, so that will make him a bit “greener”. SFMF

@bowlofrice8

4 жыл бұрын

He probably just doesn't like the taste of crayons not everyone is salty enough to be a marine

@mr.mojorisin9999

4 жыл бұрын

@@bowlofrice8 crayons and glue lmao.

@joshuacovell7713

3 жыл бұрын

lol

The '51 Navy with the octagonal barrel is by far the nicer of the two. IMO

@kenross7593

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed

@oneanonymous214

Жыл бұрын

Yeah

Hello! Just wanted to let you know how much value I'm finding in your content. Decided to use this whole pandemic/lockdown situation to finally explore cap and ball (to make a positive from a negative) - and your videos have been fabulous. Thank you!

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

Great to hear!..feel free to ask questions anytime

Another good lesson Thank you

I agree the 51 is a better looking gun. I have always strayed towards the 1858 Remington because of the top strap. I have never owned a colt but would love to have one in something other than 44. It is really funny that I shot competition for many years with cartridge guns (1911, High power, AR15, etc) but there is nothing like the feel of a black powder gun, they are like a old pair of shoes that just feel good and fun to shoot.

Glad to see that you are still adding to your Percussion Revolver Series. I had a Navy Arms 1861 Navy back in the early 1980's. It was dead on and very reliable. A few years ago I bought a Uberti 1851 and it required a good bit of tuning & modifying but it shoots straight and is quite reliable now. If I had to choose I'd say that I prefer the 1851's. I like the heavier octagonal barrel and less refined overall appearance. I thinned the post site into more if a blade-like sight and notched the hammer like you do and it helped considerably.

Love your channel!was on the fence between a spiller and but and a 51 navy.went with the navy.want to make her as reliable as possible.thank God for your channel!

Great video. Your percussion series rocks!

Thank you for the history lesson. Can’t wait for the shooting comparison video. Thanks for sharing.

I like the looks of the '51 the best. Just looks more appealing and ready for business. Love the BP vids. Be well brother.

Excellent presentation and History lesson ! Subscribed!

Really enjoyed your comparison video. I have both and like each equally. I look forward to your shooting video with each. Suggestion: You may want to do the same kind of videos with the smaller Pocket Navy and the Police revolvers. Thanks again for a little history with each.

Your cap and ball videos are great. Good work and thanks.

Another great video on black powder revolvers. Thank you Blackie!!

I think the 1862 Police pocket model is the prettiest of the Colt percussion revolver but I like um all. No one around Abbeville Alabama area shoots black powder pistols except me that I know.

Great showing sir enjoyed it very much keep up the great work sir

Love them Colts, thanks for the video.

Hah put smile on old boy this mornin😁, your BP vids are my favorite 👍

I'm with ya blackie. I've been looking for squared trigger guards to out on my 51s for about 2 years now.

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

Sometimes there are g o o d deals to be had with Authentic Colt Navys. Less than $600.00. The ones with the 'squareback' guard.

Always ready to have a sit down😊Thank You for continuous sharing.

Thank you for the video. I had an 1851 36cal, but my 17yr old son has claimed it. Should be mad at him but he loves it, watches your videos and takes really good care of it. How could I be mad about that.... hahaha. 1861 pietta in .44 will be my next one. I'm gonna keep a little better eye on it though. Hahaha Thanks again for these videos that help keep one teenager away from the t.v. and out having memorable times with his ol'man ...

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

glad you enjoy them safe journeys to you

Excellent descriptive video of the 1851 and 1861 Colt Navy revolvers. Other identification features differing between the 1860 Army versus the 1861 Navy are the Longer grip and shorter forcing cone. I wonder if the metallurgy was any different as with the 1860 Army Swedish Spring Steel was used. As compared to the earlier 1851 Navy. Keep up the good work Blackie!

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

Yes. That s why the thichnesses were so , , thick. The Navy weighs the same as the Army. The 'Hammered Cast Steel' of the Old Navys/Dragoons , ., was not as 'tough' as the Bessemer type (Low Carbon) steel used in the 1860 models/continued productions. Curiously, even though the New Navy is made of the 'New Steel' it has a thick barrel. It also weighs as much as the Army. Seems the weight/balance of the cherrished Old Navy was maintained.

I love the percussion revolver videos! My brother toted a '51 around the whole time we were growing up. I found an affinity for the Remingtons, and have stuck with them. I do have a '60 with a conversion cylinder tho.

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

i love my 44's..but i keep coming back around to a 51..love the way it feels and carries

@DeepOwl1073

4 жыл бұрын

@@blackoracle69 mayhaps I oughta give one a try...

nice comparison, thank you.

Good video blackie very informative.

Love your black powder videos Mr Blackie.

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

glad you do

I have both the 51 and 61 Navy and both are great looking but I have to give the 61 the edge in looks dept. and the loading lever is smoother, love the percussion series vids Blackie 👍🇺🇸

In am stuck at home with diarrhea and these videos are helping me to stay sane!!

@blackoracle69

3 жыл бұрын

glad you find them of use..hope ya feel better

Your videos are excellent. I love your revolver videos and have adapted your use of dixie tubes with a round ball and triple 7. I am wondering how good soy wax is as a bp lubricant ? I am contemplating wads soaked in it for my 44 Remingtons, which I love. And I love the balance of the 51 Navy. I have one made from parts with no safety pins and a square trigger guard. I relate to your bp videos because I have NO mechanical skill. Next month I will be 80 and find bp cap and ball stress relievers. God bless!

Which model had the round barrel? Terrific video.

Greetings from Ireland. I always love anything about black powder. I look forward to the shooting video.

@daveberry3853

4 жыл бұрын

Vermont USA,

@bernardflood8289

4 жыл бұрын

@@daveberry3853 Hi Dave. Tipperary, Ireland.

I have both; either works, longer point blank range than a 44/45. Works beautifully with a conversion cylinder in long Colt or 38 spc. loaded to long Colt overall length.

Great video blackie keep it up

I love all my Colt Open Tops . I have them all . If I could only have one . I would keep the 51. Just Sayin. Rooster

I have both, unlike you I couldn't pick which design I like the most. My 1851 is a Colt 2nd generation, a real Colt (despite what some say about its Italian connection) and extremely well made. My 1861 is an Uberti, purchased from Cimmaron Arms (which has an inside track to the best-made Uberti guns) and very well made. But I have a greater fondness for my Colt-made 1851 Navy, purchased new in 1982. I've put perhaps 1,500 balls and conical bullets through it, a lot for most moderen cap and ball revolvers. It lost its bluing years ago and now has a silvery patina, making it look like an old original. Because of this, I've used it as a prop in a few photos. The 1861 rammer and front sight are better, to be sure, but the 1851 has panache. Hard to beat panache.

I like them both, but like the 1861 a bit better.

I remember some time ago that you said you carry a Rock Island Armory model 206 38 special for personal protection (against Snakes) but my question is how comfortable are you in using the RIA Model 206 38 special to protect against feral hogs or bears?

Another great video. It looks like the '61 has the same grip size as the '51, and not the larger grips of the 1860. It's fairly obvious that they used a slab billet to make the 1851's barrel, mostly straight cuts which would have been easiest with the machine tools of the time; what was the process for making the streamlined '60 & '61 barrels - was it forged or cast?

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

Colts process back in the day was to use 'hammered cast steel'. The New Navy was created from 'Silver Spring Steel' (Bessemer low carbon type. Like with what cuttlery was made from).

I imagine it was more of a production efficency improvement than anything. More money in their pockets.

I understand that the 1861 Navy used what Sam Colt called a stronger silver steel alloy, which was different than the previous revolvers.

Just curious Blackie, Do you have any thaughts on sabots in a .44cal? I have the 1858 and have only shot hornady .454 round ball mysef.

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

i have not used them in percussion revolvers..i have made shot charges using modified 410 wads in 44 before

I enjoyed it.

I do like the squared guard and octagonal barrel. But I think I'll take the Colonel ' s side, the '61 is the one I want. Slick n smooth n round, and the other improvements. I'm not so sure the centerfires were actually improvements. There's something to be said about taking your time and making the shot count. I think black powder smells good too.

I'm so glad my guard on my '51 is round. I hate the square trigger guard on my Walker.

Always preferred the looks of the 1861 myself (the loading lever is much better too)!

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

it was said in print that sam colt thought the 61 was the prettiest of all..but..i gotta say the 51 in squareback is pretty awesome to me

A cheaper alternative, I have both, I like the Hex bbl. for it's horizontal reference.

@BogeyTheBear

3 жыл бұрын

The fully-round barrel of the 1861 does look a bit weird in hand. Just a straight, uninterrupted tube pointing out of the cylinder. Both my Dragoon and Leech&Rigdon have the polygonal shoulder that turns into a round barrel, so at least there's a 'shelf' at the back end of the barrel for sighting cues.

Talking about Civil War era guns with the ambiance of actual gunfire in the background? I wouldn't have it any other way :)

Hey Blackie, where did you get that the Police (Not 'Pocket Police') was made in 1863? The 'Creeping Lever' models all came out before May of 1860. All three designs, of which Colt personally designed. The 'New Model Pocket of Navy Size Calibre' isn t spoken of by Colt/Colt Company before 1863. It seems to have been designed by the company after his death, trying to ride the success of the '1851 Navy' and the '49 Pocket' (which came out in '50 or '51) using 'Navy Calibre' (which was v e r y successful via the New Model Police). The Colt Company began using the 'nicknames'. Even in the 1970/80s via R.L. Wilson. He called them 'Muzzle Loading Revolvers'. He also used the nicknames and 'stage' dates of introduction (1862 Pocket Police). Speaking/presenting this subject requires research other than what some author made up and wrote in a book.

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

its model collector terms to refer to the improvement of models like 31 ( baby dragoon)..the 49 pocket model( same gun with loading lever) pocket navy (same gun but now with rebated cyl and i n36 cal..but looks like a scaled down 51..then the stream line 1862 pocket police refers to the baltimore police placing order to arm the officers..so it got called police..much like the wells fargo a baby dragoon they dropped the square back trigger guard and went to round and wells fargo bought a small number of them as to using colt as a ref ..when the colt factory burned after the civil war all record of any real note were lost..often collectors had to use adds made by colt... but not a give written by colt... to advertise in london papers ect.. the stream line actually began with the colt root revolver and thats where the loading lever and smooth flowing lines came from..i seem to recall a tool room example from early colt of the dragoon with the flowing barrel lines but by 1860 dragoon were considerd obsolite in military use..still issued during the war..but on the way out and the 1860 kinda killed it..thanks for the comment..safe journeys

I will take the 61 over the 51 every time. The reason why is the loading port on the 61 is cut all the way thru the barrel. That makes loading conicals much easier, and the rack and pinion loading lever is mich smoother. The 1861 is just more versatile. You can make a 51 versatile, but it requires some work. I just go with the 1861.

I have the 1851, but in .44 caliber. Tons of fun to shoot, and actually legal to hunt deer with where i live.

@bowlofrice8

4 жыл бұрын

I would at least be using a dragoon with conical bullets and the heaviest load of 777 you can get in it. A 454 round ball on 30gr of powder will barely hit 200ftlb that's a little to weak to be shooting deer from any distance farther than maybe 10 yards. Wounded deer running around for hours or days is not what you want. Please hunt ethically. That being said I have shot a few coyotes with my 51 and 58 but I try to put it in the thinker instead of the bread box.

@bludmakesgrassgrow

4 жыл бұрын

@@bowlofrice8 I appreciate the advice, but to give you some context, I've killed hundreds of deer. The revolver is just for head shots to finish them off.

I have a Pietta Dance Brothers revolver. It is a very nice shooter. Could you do a vid on one? Thanks.

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

if i can get my hands on one i will do it

@howardharper7590

4 жыл бұрын

I like my Dance on 44, but I like the 51's better, also in 44

👍

When filling both hands with steel for me the 51 fits the right hand best and the 61 the left hand. The 61 seems better balanced for the weak hand for some reason. I suspect it has something to do with weight distribution.

What is the difference in weight?

I own a lot of the well-known percussion revolvers, and i have to say the 61 navy is the king.

I don't think it was a marketing ploy, when Sam Colt said he thought the 1861 was the best revolver he ever made. It was more stream lined and it had a superior loading lever with rack and pinion leverage. This made it easier to load. It was a definite improvement over the 1851.

@blackoracle69

Жыл бұрын

it is and the looks were awesome

@Man_Cave

Жыл бұрын

@@blackoracle69 I also liked the fact that the 1861 was already relieved for conicals from the factory so no modification is necessary.

Does the 1861 Pietta load conicals better than the 51? The Army style rammer is more suited to that from my understanding, but I have never owned a Pietta model of these guns and would like to soon enough.

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

I have Authentic Colt Navys. The New Model is easier to load conicals. The loading space is larger and the rammer is with more leverage due to the 'creeping' design.

@alexbowman7330

4 жыл бұрын

@@geffreybolster3780 Okay. Thank you, sir. Just Sharing: I made my decisions and got an 1851 Navy (in .36 cal, obviously) and am going to stick to round balls with it. I will get a New Model Army for round ball AND conicals. I want a Colt and a Remington to enjoy both. I am looking forward to casting the bullets for the .44 too. I have no one around me that enjoys guns like I do, so, sometimes I overshare this stuff with strangers on the internet.

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

That sounds wonderful! I have the Colt s Patent molds. I cast the elongated balls mostly. They perform the best. I have molds that cast 3 different sizes of elongateds for the Navys and Pocket and Police.

@alexbowman7330

4 жыл бұрын

@@geffreybolster3780 That's cool. Those molds are pretty nice. I want a Johnston and Dow for my .44, but people always snatch them up quickly.

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

Regarding your 'sharing too much..' I hear that!!! Seems N O O N E wants to hear what I have to say. I m too literal. I don t like innaccuracies though. Anyway, I m a traditionalist. All my Colts are traditionally maintained and operated, just like in the day. I m not down with modern applications to these old arms, such as , , modern modifications etc. Modern ballistic bullets, putting scopes on , .

I've got to say it: the octagonal barrel gives the 1851 an unfinished look. It's like the worker on the floor cut out the barrel block, chamfered the barrel in preparation for turning it on a lathe, then just plumb forgot to do that and just sent it down the line to be bored out. Compare it to the Dragoon which was being made during the same time, where they _did_ take the time to turn the barrel on a lathe and round it out, and that just reinforces the 'unfinished' impression I get from the 1851.

@blackoracle69

3 жыл бұрын

true it has a "" early"" look about it

@BogeyTheBear

3 жыл бұрын

I do like the older style of barrel assembly, with the two-hinge loading lever and the thick join block, more than I do the creeping lever in the 1860/1861. You get the same solid look with that in the Walker and Dragoon guns, and it helps break up the smooth lines of the round barrels on those guns. What I like in my Leech & Rigdon Navy is that it's essentially an 1851 from Uberti, but it has that round barrel like you see in the .44 horse pistols.

i lean towards the 51, the 61 is a very sleek and beautiful pistol, which is why i like the 51, its the ugly ducklin and i love it

I believe Uberti makes a ‘58 Remington in .36 caliber, but it uses their same .44 cal frame and barrel, making for an awkwardly heavy gun. The true original .36 caliber Remingtons were built on a lighter, smaller frame. If the Italians could get that right man that would be a great field revolver. I’ve found the Remingtons to overall be more reliable and dependable over the Colts.

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

i had a original spiller and burr that i shot and hunted with for many yrs its a copy of a whitney..i think its a better size and balance than 36 remington

I prefer the '51. The '61 is a fine gun but if you are not paying attention it's really easy to confuse it with the '60 as you pointed out.

the 51 is still my favorite.

I really like both of them. To me the 51 looks much more industrial and machine-like, very functional. The 60/61 looks more graceful but still powerful, like a wild horse. Although the bigger grips of the 1860 fit my large hand much better

@mrstarfishh33

2 жыл бұрын

This is the navy though, doesn't have the larger army grips

Yep 51 is a sexy beast but mine has round trigger guard

Is that an original 61 Navy you have or a replica with a patina finish?

@paleotrekker402

4 жыл бұрын

Replica, he forced the patina on it a while ago that or he just used it until it got that way. He said so in a much older video.

@SlickSixguns

4 жыл бұрын

Paleo Trekker thanks

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

yep i like the look of patina..so i tend to make them look old..makes em shoot better lol

@SlickSixguns

4 жыл бұрын

BLACKIE THOMAS hey doesn’t matter how they look it’s how they shoot

👍☝🏻👍

Hey Blackie, was wondering if you have any experience with the "1858" Remington in .36 (new model navy)? I see very little about these, and few places that sell them. But, with my meat claws only allowing 2 fingers around the grip of my 61', am thinking a larger frame may be useful from a stability point of view. Not really looking for a .44 yet, for me, just extra powder and lead to send at a piece of paper. Thanks for any insights you have!

En un revólver moderno es muy difícil que suceda lo que en otro mensaje se menciona. Ahora en un revólver de avancarga o pólvora negra como un Colt Navy creo que 1860 kzread.info/dash/bejne/e2mCtamHh9rUmaw.htmlsi=hMc5upw7AarPklPd Si puede suceder pues si no se toman las medidas de seguridad al cargar, puede disparar o ponerse en “ Batería” y hasta dispara todos los tiros con desastrosas consecuencias. De nuevo con el modelo que aquí se ofrece, puede suceder y sucede ( me pasó a mi) con otra marca y modelo distinto y en 357 que por mal trato del dueño anterior el tambor no quedaba firme, escapaban gases y hasta pedacitos de plomo y los sentía en la mano que se pone debajo del caño adelante del cilindro. Solución ponga la manito junto a la que dispara y véndalo. 👍🇺🇾🤝🇨🇦🤗🇵🇾🥩🧉🦮🐎⚖️🗽🔫

Continued production of the 1861 after the Army proves that the .36 was often preferred to the .44 .

Hey Does anyone have an opinion on if it’s a good idea to crown you’re forcing cone and cylinders Just a hair So that you’re not cutting a ring you’re just smashing the ball in and smashing it through the rifling and leaving all the material intact I don’t know just a random idea

isn't the 61' model having a longer barrel ? If so did it add enough velocity so the bullet can reach sound speed ?

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah. The barrel is 8''. Colt didn t do this except for special orders. He offered the Navys with brass or steel 'furnishings' (TG/BS). He did make some, V e r y few though, for the military with Attachable Carbine Breech (Shoulder Stock) Only 7 1/2'' though. Standard production models all were 7 1/2'' with plated (silver) furnishings.

@BogeyTheBear

3 жыл бұрын

Pietta gives their 1861 the 8" barrel. Uberti went with the more historically accurate 7-1/2" barrel instead.

Wonderful presentation and so on, just a few things. Colt Didn t design the Revolving Belt Pistol (1851 Navy, which actually came out in 1850) for the Navy nor the Rangers. He created it for all! He said it was 'Ranger size'. Later, the Colt company stated the Caliber it used as 'Calibre of Navy Size'. Referring to the New Pocket. Colt applied the Naval Scene in homage to Cmmd Moore. Colt never referred to his pistols as Navy. That came later. The Colt company called them this (price/parts lists, loading instructions , .). 'Navy Calibre' came from his Patersons that the Navy used etc. He didn t call it this though, it came later too. The Belt Pistol got its 'Navy' , , moniker, from the caliber and the Naval Scene. However, the pistol is not a 'Navy' because of the Naval scene. Colt did funny things. He engraved the Army with the Naval Scene too. The Colt Company engraved the 'Pocket Navy' with the Stagecoach Scene.

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

As it is, Colt didn t refer to the New Holster Pistol as an 'Army'. He merely referred to it as a 'Holster Pistol' When he applied the Naval scene to it, as with the '1851 Navy', he merely applied it to his pistol design. Whether it went to the Army, Navy or whomever etc, this was separate. So, Sam didn t put a Naval Scene on an 'Army' pistol. He simply put it on a pistol that the Army used. But so did the Navy! With Shoulder stock too!

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

'Navy' came to be know from the use of .36 caliber. 'Army' came to be known from .44 caliber (regardless of the Naval Scene).

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

true and many in other letters called the .44...the "" dragoon calbre""...since the 1860 had yet to bring that fine round down to a belt size gun frame

51 Navy iron, 61 Navy steel

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

Colt made a l l his pistols (even the Walker cylinders) from 'hammered Cast steel'. The New Navy was made from 'Bessemer' type steel referred to as 'Silver Spring Steel'. There is a lot of documentation out there on this. I m not just making it up.

Sorry Blackie but the game actually started with the 1836 Patterson. Just sayin.

@blackoracle69

Жыл бұрын

oh it did but when you break a patterson down for cleaning you will agree the 51 was a big step forward

@williammanning3174

Жыл бұрын

@@blackoracle69 I definitely agree.

If you like the 51 so much, why do you always carry a 61?

@blackoracle69

3 жыл бұрын

my 51 is a colt reissue and my 61 is a pietta the pietta shoots better

When things settle out, I may be in the market for a .36 cal. As much as I love my Remmy, it is far easier to find a Colt in that caliber. By the way, same Paleo Trekker, just thought I needed to start fresh with a new channel to see if I can do better than the last one.

HA! Got it! Where the 'Navy/Army' and Naval Scene on Navy and Army? comes from,- '1851 Navy'. He made a 'Ranger size Belt Pistol'. Of which he had it engraved with 'The Naval Scene' in homage to Cmmd Moore of the Texian Navy. He did this also on the New Holster Pistol (Not New Army. Colt didn t make a 'Army' pistol. He made Holster Pistols). Colt didn t make them for anyone/specific military service. Later, the Colt company embraced the 'monikers' of 'Army/Navy calibers and Pistols'. Colt only made Pocket, Belt and Holster Pistols. The other names came from , , others. The Colt Company later used the common reference to .36 as a Navy (not 'Naval') caliber by referring to the 'New Model Pocket...' as having 'Navy Size Calibre'. Of which has the 'Stagecoach holdup Scene' on it.

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

He sold to the Army and Navy (as well as others) Shoulder stocked Belt and Holster pistols., a n d some New Pocket models ('62 Pocket Navys- with the Stagecoach Scene- heh heh ).

@geffreybolster3780

4 жыл бұрын

Wow! It just keeps getting better! As I continue to research this, Colt himself didn t refer to the 'Police' pistol in this manner either! He simply referred to his pistols as either Holster, Belt or Pocket. As I stated, all the endearing, cute, monikors etc, come from the users and so on, resulting in the Colt Company embracing and using them. Not Colt himself though! Curious. So, the original nomenclature of the Small pistols is 'Pocket'. E v e n the 'Pocket Police'! W o w !

@blackoracle69

4 жыл бұрын

very true..often the names we use today were not used in the past..if you asked for a 58 army..no body would have had a clue..back then..or a 3rn model dragoon..to thim it was a horse pistol or at least a dragoon..only we try to seperate the changes