I’ve been bone on bone for over 2 decades. Initially orthopaedics said your too young to have a full knee replacement. I listened to the doctors for all those years. I’ve been having so much pains, living off pain killers and ointments. I’m now 51 and it’s come to a point, I can’t take the pain any more. I had a total knee replacement it’s been so far 3 weeks and all ready I’m walking up and down stairs. I know it’s a long road to recovery. I’m optimistic I’ll be hopefully walking pain free again one day.

@debojyotisaha196

Жыл бұрын

How are you doing now ?😄

@ademersoy7332

Жыл бұрын

@@debojyotisaha196 I’m doing fine and it’s been so far 8 weeks since surgery and walking but still there’s a little pain. I know this pain is temporary and pain free days are ahead waiting for me.

@debojyotisaha196

Жыл бұрын

@@ademersoy7332 All the best, continue physio. Hope you will be pain-free soon

@marybyrnebyrne2360

Жыл бұрын

Good for you I'm 17 days after getting my right knee fully replaced .Still I'm a bit of pain I can walk up down stairs too slowly .my lower back is sore neck too from the crutches

@ademersoy7332

Жыл бұрын

@@marybyrnebyrne2360 what ever you do Mary don’t stop the exercises. Especially strengthening and try to walk straight. Walk slow but straight. Pain will eventually get lighter after 6 weeks. Hot showers, spa does wonders. Keep on taking those prescribed medication. You’ll be fine.

55 years old. Bone on bone. Swollen beyond belief. Had total knee replacement surgery on my right knee. Best thing I’ve ever done. Zero pain now. Truly a blessing from heaven

@Postal4x4

Жыл бұрын

I am 55 as well with a bad left knee. Sports and an ACL rebuild has taken its toll. Now, I can't use stairs, it is constantly swollen and painful. Just got my referral from my orthopedic surgeon who repaired my detached bicep. I can't wait to hear what the surgeon says!

@j.m.p8051

Жыл бұрын

How long ago did you have your TKR?

@raeoden9939

Жыл бұрын

Just had a TKR in April. I thought I'd be completely incapacitated. I was so wrong. Modern technology is amazing. It was day surgery for me. I've been fortunate and blessed that my recovery has been a speedy one. Not as painful as I thought it would be. I'm doing very well. And I'd do it again if I had to.

@robertomazzaroni675

Жыл бұрын

How old re u?

@raeoden9939

Жыл бұрын

@@robertomazzaroni675 I'm 57.

I had total knee replacement in 2019, at71 years of age. I was in the hospital 2 and 1/2 days, came ho and started physical therapy at home. After three days of pt at home I was walking without a walker, went to out of home two times a week for 6 weeks, and I have had no problem at all. Been playing golf for two years. Best move I ever made, no pain what so ever.

I could not be more thrilled having both knees replaced last year (5 months apart). Went from being barely able to walk four months ago to now walking mostly pain free at least a 1/4 mile every day, without a cane. Only wish I had the knees done sooner. It has also helped my spine - a lot! With both knees level, my back is straight and most of my back pain is gone. Wish I'd had them done years sooner. I didn't think surgery was all that painful - but physical therapy was essential. Every day I try to walk a little further, and hope to be able to walk at least a mile every day, eventually. Life is good again and I am back shopping, doing housework and thank God every day that I can walk pain-free again.

I was 73 (a few years ago) and had bilateral total knee replacement. I had added extra exercises before surgery and continue to do many of the therapy exercises to this day. My knees are great, I play tennis 3 x per week and move around the court like I did 30 yrs ago. It’s so wonderful to be pain free. No robots.

@janetconfer5883

Жыл бұрын

Do you ever regret doing Bilaterial knee replacement? People think I’m nuts for wanting it..

@JeanneF77

Жыл бұрын

@@janetconfer5883 I never regretted getting bi-lateral knee replacements. You will recover quicker each time getting one at a time but when you multiply by 2 surgeries, it’s longer. I’d do it this way again. You’ll exercise both legs anyway, it may as well be a reason.

@arnoldblashak171

Жыл бұрын

Wow that's so nice to hear that

@arnoldblashak171

Жыл бұрын

Well my girlfriend's going to get a left knee replacement soon

@arnoldblashak171

Жыл бұрын

Wow that's good to hear

I had my right knee replaced at 60. Best thing ever. Worked very hard with Physio and I am very active

@stef3565

4 ай бұрын

Were you bone on bone ? I am 58 , but not bone on bone and my surgeon's is still recommending. I am so nervous about this, but so done with 4 years of pain and limping.

@classicalguitargirl

3 ай бұрын

@@stef3565 Yes but I was still activate and I had good muscle tone and was active despite the pain. Cartilage doesn't grow back and I didn't want to take Tylenol or other pain pills or injections forever.

You all gonna be ok my wife has both knees replaced almost ten years ago I can tell the recovery is ruff sometimes but the support from the family makes all the difference in the world

I was 70 yrs old 6 yrs ago when I had both knees done at same time. Best decision I ever made. Quick recovery and haven't had any pain since.

Thank you for this video, it confirms I did the right thing. I had bi-lateral knee arthroscopy 3 months apart starting 4 months ago. I was bone on bone with variable pain but reduced knee flexibility. Now my range of motion is greatly increased with practically no pain...still working on navigating stairs. I am 57.

My orthopedic surgeon says age doesn't matter. My first knee replacement I had when I was 44 and second knee replacement at age 53. It's not age matters, but healthier lifestyle

@bluesky7288

2 ай бұрын

They only last 10 to 20 years depending on How much you use them, so younger people may need a do over

@gabyesquivel158

12 күн бұрын

​@@bluesky7288 CON LOS AVANCES DE HOY DÍA,LOS REEMPLAZOS DURAN 30 AÑOS EN ADELANTE. POR ESO ,SE COLOCAN EN PERSONAS JOVENES.

I have had the right knee replaced twice now. The first one just never worked and was painful for over 4.5 years. Finally found another surgeon. He fixed the knee by replacing the whole apparatus. And they ran supporting rods down the bones in the leg. Still can’t run and am not supposed to. But it was way more tolerable second time around. My second surgeon was a wizard. Olympia Orthopedic in Olympia Washington had the best surgeons period. Thanks much to Dr. Wood

@halfmanhalfamazing7392

2 жыл бұрын

Wow, I hate the fact that you said you can't run and you not supposed to. That's just discouraging. I'm getting the replacement so I can run again.

@cliftondejarnette8034

2 жыл бұрын

M

@dywagner7998

2 жыл бұрын

Running shortens the life of the implant.

I had L knee total in July 2019, R knee total in November 2019. I was bone on bone, and the pain before was near constant, often waking me up in the night. I’m thrilled with both of my knees. Best medical decision I ever made. Recovery was brutal, but I learned that I’m a lot stronger than I thought I was.

@annfrancoole34

2 жыл бұрын

Sue Cave I had bone on bone but absolutely no pain, could sit all day, lie in bed but the minute l started to walk it was so painful and as for standing OMG would die if I went somewhere and there was no seats. I was a master at making excuses to family/friends to avoid going to different functions. Did not have to take pain killers. Put it off for so long because I was afraid. Before Covid19 went to the swimming pool every day to exercise because it was easy. Then the pools closed during Covid19, media were saying keep active, go out everyday for a walk for at least 20 minutes anyone can do it - well no they cant. So took the bull by the horns and had it done December 2020 and have never looked back, the difference it made is unbelievable, was sorry I left it for so long. I did everything they said about exercise and physio twice a day for 6 weeks.

@suecave7139

2 жыл бұрын

@@annfrancoole34 Good for you! You overcame your fear and discovered strength you never thought you had!

@ahmad000almahdi

Жыл бұрын

« إِنَّ اللَّهَ وَمَلَائِكَتَهُ يُصَلُّونَ عَلَى النَّبِيِّ ۚ يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا صَلُّوا عَلَيْهِ وَسَلِّمُوا تَسْلِيمًا » 🥰 سبحان الله ... الحمد لله ... لا إله إلا الله .... الله أكبر .... لا حول ولاقوة إلا بالله.

@geoffcoles5738

Жыл бұрын

Everyone says recovery is brutal.....14 days now, it certain.y is

@annfrancoole34

Жыл бұрын

@@geoffcoles5738 Preserve with the physio. I know its hard. Many a day I did not want to do but did. Keep positive. You will get there.

At 59 I had bilateral TKR. In a couple months time, all my pain was gone! Quality of life improved immensely. I am so blessed to have had this done.

Had both R and L knees replaced September 2021, best decision I made for a better quality of life. So thrilled to have them done at same time. Not a good choice for everyone. I have excellent upper body strength and 52 years old, years of softball catching and overweight played havoc on me, was walking bent. Gained 2" in height back after being replaced. Feels good to walk straight again.

@rickhammond2473

Жыл бұрын

Question for you How is your knee doing do you have flexibility are you able to straighten the knee out? My girlfriend is having a problem walking with her full knee replacement hers was done April 2021.

I have zero cartilage in my right knee and 70% left in the other. Didn't get knee replacement. Took me a full year and half to work through it but I'm jogging/shuffling on a treadmill 3 miles doing 14 minute mile and doing ok. I'd say I'm around 70% from where I used to be. I'll take that. Still hobbling around slightly but not bad but my knees no longer hurt once I started working out. I do leg extension and curls to build up my knee muscles and that has helped tremendously. Time will tell but for now I'm doing ok. I'm 52, 5'10" 220lbs and semi muscular but honestly could use some weight loss to help. Everyone pain level is different but if you don't need knee replacement get on a regular exercise schedule and build up those surrounding knee muscles. Worth it.

I had a TKR with a Striker implant at age 59 in 2002 in left knee and a TKR with a Smith & Nephew implant in 2012 in right knee. Both have been incredibly successful because of the same great surgeon and a lot of personal hard work on rehab in both cases. There has never been a regret about having had both of these procedures and I remain very mobile in fast walking, activities with grandkids and living an active comfortable life.

@stevenlord6120

2 жыл бұрын

Which knee feels more natural or better?

@pestryke

2 жыл бұрын

Stryker not Striker

@PJC_intheNorth

2 жыл бұрын

@@pestryke pardon the spelling mistake. After 20 years many of these details slip away.

@PJC_intheNorth

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevenlord6120 Both are great! Prognosis data on the Stryker implant in 2002 was pretty sketchy, but 20 years later the knee function is better than it was for the previous ten years. My only regret is that my leg muscle strength at age 79 no longer allows the same range and power of motion that I had 30 years ago.

@angeladibble

4 ай бұрын

@@PJC_intheNorth I knew what he meant.

I've had both knees replaced and I have absolutely no regrets. The 1st TKR recovery was a little painful when the got me up after surgery but the horrible debilitating pain was gone. My 2nd TKR went much smoother as I knew what to expect and I was able to do my own PT at home. My doctor was awesome and the rest of his team were #1 and vital in my recovery. I was 46 and 52 when I had my knee surgery.

@deannarounds3295

2 жыл бұрын

My second one was much easier ! I knew what to expect and I refused the opiates which really screwed with my mind.

@brandstyle3639

2 жыл бұрын

What TKR

@HugsXO

2 жыл бұрын

@@brandstyle3639 Total Knee Replacement 😊

@HugsXO

2 жыл бұрын

@@DP-vo7wm Hi D P, I'm sorry you had so much pain. 😢☺ I'm surprised the doctor didn't do a nerve block or used numbing medication that lasts a couple of days🤔. That first step on your new knee is obnoxiously painful and NOTHING prepares you for it. With PT it's going to get easier and hopefully you will be pain free and able to do things you haven't been able to do. I wish you well.😊

@deannarounds3295

2 жыл бұрын

@@DP-vo7wm I refused opiates but I alternated extra strength tylenol with aspirin every 3 hours and I took it. I can tell you it gets better and do the PT as they tell you to. If it hurts still try to do it but do fewer of any that hurt.

I worked as an RN in a surgical recovery room and took care of many postop knee replacement patients. The info in this video is spot on. My own occasionally achy knees might someday need surgical attention. After watching this video, I feel better about that possibility. Thank you!

@helenpietrzyk9690

Жыл бұрын

Having a knee replacement was the worst pain in ever had in this world. Now i need the other one done and have put off so long. Im totally scared to go thru this again. My pain was not well managed...sorry to say...

@lovinitall6639

8 ай бұрын

​@@helenpietrzyk9690Find a better Dr !

@Diana-007

7 ай бұрын

@@helenpietrzyk9690make sure you are prepared this time, knowing what level of pain you may be facing 😳 have a pain relief plan, interview your anaesthetist and explain your need for a decent plan,and a good physiotherapist pre-op and post op it made all the difference to me 2nd time around. 🤞good luck 🥰

49.5 and about to get my left knee done. glad to hear that the majority of you are happy with the results.

@dagmarriou8364

10 ай бұрын

There exists the minority (I am in that categorie). I suggest you get a second opinion. I certainly wish I had back in 2020 because now I will walk with a can for the rest of my life as well as take morphine for the pain for the rest of my life. I never got all this information and now it is definitely too late!!!

@fancyfrancy2244

5 ай бұрын

@@dagmarriou8364Why? What did they do wrong? Did they cut off too much bone? I don’t understand why some people have it so easy and others have worse pain than before even after a year!!! That’s not right and you would think in this day and age they could fix it!!!

I so appreciate how Dr. Bellemans speaks to our higher intelligence. Illustrating his case with images of xrays. Discussing the studies comparing clinical studies of unicompartmental vs. multicompartmental. Robot vs. non-robotic. Then summarizing. I would want this surgeon to do my replacement based on how he educates us so that we both can make the right decision.

I had a total knee replacement at 64. There is a difficult rehab period, but it's absolute best thing i have done for me. There are slight changes in my mobility, but no more pain and i live a much better life. When necessary, i will have my right knee replacement without hesitation.

@deannarounds3295

2 жыл бұрын

I had my first knee replacement at age 59 and the second last year at age 63. I had suffered for 15-20 years following a motorcycle accident. Best thing I ever did!

@monaz1135

2 жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comment. I'm about to get a knee replacement and very nervous about it. Your words helped relax me ( a little)

@deannarounds3295

2 жыл бұрын

@@monaz1135 Glad to hear it - mine is still getting better every day. Do your exercises even if it hurts, don't chase the pain - take your meds and even if you cannot do everything they want you to do at least try. I promise it gets easier! Good luck

@deannarounds3295

2 жыл бұрын

@@monaz1135 Thought you would like to know that I still had very minor pain in the last knee I had replaced and I literally woke up about 8 days ago and was totally pain free. Doc said it could take up to a year to be as good as it could be - took just over 10 months so please do not get discouraged.

@immadimeo8625

2 жыл бұрын

I have to have a knee replacement and you comment made me feel better on getting it done. Thank you!

Wish I would have seen this about 18 months ago. This is great !!!! I had a full replacement. I do have residual problems and I do not imagine they will ever resolve. GREAT SERVICE to ALL!!!!!!!!!

22 years in the Army, 46 years old TKR L knee 2019 after two knee reconstructions and a third attempt after wrecking the first two. No more random knee effusion, swelling, pain, etc. I was really young for this procedure but have no complaints.

I had first TKR aged 57, and I had second TKR 18 Months ago, I truly could not be Happier, the results are WONDERFUL, recovery period is a little difficult ,{ second one was much better } my life has been completely transformed, to be pain free, and Walk whenever and wherever I want is incredibly liberating...One Important point, I did , and still do work hard on my fitness, this really helps with the recovery process ...{ I am 61 now }..

When I was 55 my orthopedic doctor said I needed a knee replacement. I didn't ask questions just figured he knew what he was taking about. Knee replacement done and 6 months later had the other one done. Jump forward I am now 72. I still have some discomfort when walking alot but no real problems. Have also had one shoulder replaced and will be getting the second one done sometime this year

I'm 53 years old and have recently been diagnosed with bone on bone. My orthopedic doctor recommended total knee replacement back in January. I panicked and told him I needed to think about it and discuss it with my family. Anyway, I have an appointment coming up in May 2023. My knee has gotten worse,along with the pain, and I fell again, which didn't help. So, I've made my mind up to have the surgery. I'm nervous about it and a little scared, to be honest, but after reading all these comments, it helps a little bit, so thanks.

@nursecathy123cat

Жыл бұрын

It is a major surgery, certainly, but I am so glad I had it done. The only glitch was I needed more pain medicine on a weekend and had trouble getting an another Rx from the surgeon's office. Make sure you and the surgeon agree on a care plan for pain management.

As a non medical person, this is the best explanation on knee replacement I have heard so far. I hope the good doctor can also do a video on HTO.

I had total knee replacement almost three mnths ago. I am happy. No pain and i can walk. Not too worried being very active as i am 70 and was never active before i had op. Doing well and so grateful. Next knee in Jan

@FlorentinaStemate

Жыл бұрын

Hello, so glad the surgery went good for you! I have some questions if you could be so kind to answer, because my mother, also, had this surgery proposed to her as an ultimate form of therapy. 1. After the surgery can you walk without any pain? For example could you walk 3-4 hours without pain? 2.can you climb/go down some stairs without pain and how many stairs? 3. Do you feel any stiffness or numbness in your leg if you walk or sit on a chair/sofa? Did you100% recover your mobility? Can you go for 0-120 degrees without pain? Can you fast walk? Can you kneel and get back up without pain and without help from someone/ cane? Your answer would really help me very much. Thank you

Very good info coming from a patient perspective as i've had 11 knee surgeries with the last one being a stryker TKR with robot. I had a misaligned ACL in my early 20s that gave me premature wear and tear on the joints. I've gone through the ringer so now at 52 my knee was in severe pain, debilitating really, at random moments. When the pain hit it would take 2 to 3 weeks to reside....i'd be ok to walk around then a few months later boom intense pain, debilitating and I'm in bed till it gets better. I went to the stone clinic in SF and had a biological knee replacement (cadaver miniscus and cartilage graft) in my late 30s and that bought me time. Now I'm at 5 weeks...trying to ween off of a cane. Feels real smooth and the arthritis (dull ache) is kind of gone but still too early to make the call i'm in the lucky 85% bracket...but i have good hopes...feels real good. First month was definitely a trial and had a lot of pain but getting through it one day at a time. Thanks for the video.

@hughcannon3569

2 жыл бұрын

My docor told my to give it about 6 months before i judged his work. He was right and i only regret i didn't have it done sooner.

@FamilyRhodes

Жыл бұрын

How old were you after biological knee replacement?

@jhrom9311

Жыл бұрын

@@FamilyRhodes late 30s

@FamilyRhodes

Жыл бұрын

@@jhrom9311 thank you. tough procedures. i've had 5 on this knee, with the most recent 2 being a biologic replacement without meniscus, plus a high tibial osteotomy (HTO) at 2018, then a surgical biologic injecting into the femur plateau behind the graft.

@jhrom9311

Жыл бұрын

@@FamilyRhodes hows it feeling now and whats your age?

I have been quite concerned about seeing an orthopedic surgeon next week. I live in a community with many seniors who have had knee surgery. Most people have been quite disappointed because the knee pain persists. I always thought all knee surgery was the same. Thanks to you Professor , I am well prepared for the inevitable scenario. I am 82 F

@mrspunk61

Жыл бұрын

what happened?

@mrth1702

Жыл бұрын

What happened in spite of debilitating pain in my rt knee & now both, I've been told I need a full rt hip replacement and that my knees will 'probably be OK after hip replacement. I just rcd a call from scheduling. I am on a 2 month wait. 4/3/23. I was hoping for hip resurfacing instead of full hip. Dr said I am too old,83, to have that. I am disappointed because of that and the long anticipation.

@mrspunk61

Жыл бұрын

@@mrth1702 Good luck with that, I hope that works for you. That seems strange that your knee pain would go away by fixing your hip but I’m a painting contractor and not a Dr. My left knee is going down hill but I don’t want replacement. I’m getting gel shots coming up to see if that will hold it off. Not happy about the situation. Be well!

@mrth1702

Жыл бұрын

@Robert Carberry thank you for your correspondence . Two more surgeons opinions. Both said hip. I chose the best. I just have to wait until 4/3. I've since learned their is a "Resurfacing proceedure." The Dr. resurfaces the the cut is small in the front. I was told it's only for men (?) and I'm too old (83)anyway. 😠. I'm in better shape than most men 65+.As a matter fact I was invited to lunch by a fellow my sons age😉 i wish you well. Stay off ladders when you paint. Knees are very unpredictable.

@frankkeel8410

Жыл бұрын

Ladders are a bitch so😊 😂is roofing

His advice to make sure it’s bone on bone is great as I thought I was ready and so did my surgeon but 25 years later I still have the same knees and one just hurts when it rains but with warmth it goes. So be careful!

I had bilateral TKR and I would never advise anyone doing that. My outcome was good but I did not realize how difficult rehabilitation on 2 knees would be. I will say PT before helps and PT post surgical is a must if you want to walk right.

I had TKR on both knees 1st in October 2021, 2nd in March 2022, both were with robotic surgery with on of the best orthopedic surgeons in Western Colorado, extensive physical therapy after surgery by one of the best PTs and her team. I have no knee pain, this has improved my quality of life immensely

I had both knees replaced but 20 yrs later they wore out so I had both replaced again and I'm doing great. Only thing it was very painful on recovery on my right knee but it healed fine.

@kartheleenocampo

Жыл бұрын

Did you have it replaced both again at the same time?

I had my knee split wide open in 86 and arthroscopic done immediately. It was a shining success. Now at 67 that knee is bad and the mri showed bone on bone. I’m waiting till fall to have it replaced. I’ve been reticent to do this but this video helps immensely. My brother had two replaced at once 18 years ago and us now 83.. he told me “just get it done and do the therapy as directed no matter how much it hurts “.. attitude is part of the success. I’m going in with a much better one now. Thank you!!

Thank you for making this Video. I am in need of knee replacement, and I am 45 years old. Both knees are bad but in one knee it is only in one compartment. Thanks for giving me some things to discuss with my ortho.

I am 6 mk ths post bilateral TKR . The results have been amazing. Still recovering, but already 100 times better then pre op.

such a great video, I'm 20 and still learning about preventative measures to protect my joints

I had a total left knee replacement at age 66. I had little pain and recovered quickly. It extended my working life by 10 years. One unfortunate side effect has been a lot of ankle pain in both ankles, I think caused by a failure to get the leg alignment quite right. ( I tend to be slightly knock kneed ).

@user-gr7sc4th9c

10 ай бұрын

Go see a podiatrist and get personal made inserts to correct.

I had my total knee replacement 9 years ago at 49 years ago. Best thing I ever did.

@Teleman01

2 жыл бұрын

How was your recovery time? I'm 52 and probably need both knees replaced. But I can ride my bike 40 to 60 miles twice a week with not much pain. But I walk around Walmart for 45 minutes, it hurts way more lol. Very confusing.

@karenroy9045

2 жыл бұрын

@@Teleman01 recovery time to be totally function-able was for me about 3-months. Everybody is different. Different pain levels. Good luck!

@susie2251

2 жыл бұрын

@@Teleman01 you’re lucky! My pain is unbearable before I’ve even made it from the parking lot to the store!

@rickhammond2473

Жыл бұрын

Question for you How is your knee doing do you have flexibility are you able to straighten the knee out? My girlfriend is having a problem walking with her full knee replacement hers was done April 2021.She will be 48 tmw.18th of October.

All these positive results ! I had my left knee replaced around 2012 @ 60yrs of age, @ Bronson Hospital, in Kalamazoo. I had RA pain in the spring & fall every yr. that was unbearable, weirdly enough, when warmer weather came around, I'd get better. My regular doctor informed me to stay away from a full replacement, but I wanted the pain to go away. Short story, I have been in constant low-grade pain since it was replaced, its hurting right now sitting in my chair. Do not believe all the beautiful stories !

@christopherbrown5141

2 жыл бұрын

Believe this person ,, have had so much pain last few years,worse after replacement than before! Now 7 years later am getting same side hip replacement because out of line knee has caused damage.

@gailcole9913

Жыл бұрын

A lot depends on the skill of the surgeon. Replacements need to be positioned exactly. Also your physical therapists skill helps. Sorry you are having trouble.

@citygirl9615

Жыл бұрын

Your surgeon was a quack. You should have sued him

I am certain I am going to need some kind of surgical intervention. Thank you so much for highlighting the finer details of different issues. When I get a report from my doctor about what the x-ray shows, I feel I will be better prepared to make a good decision. I am glad that you highlighted the fact that some people do not feel satisfied after surgical intervention, that is important to remember.

Before you accept this treatment, do everything possible to avoid it because the pain and grief is like nothing I ever felt before in my entire life (76). The pain is relentless and attacked me all hours of the day and nite for months. It felt like an ice pick attached to electricity was stabbed into my knee. OXY & Tramadol did very little to mitigate the pain. After the TKR I needed an MUA (manipulation under anesthesia) and now, 6 months later, I need Arthroscopic surgery to remove the massive scar tissue that formed. PT was excrutiatingly painful and I am an ex Marine accustomed to pain. Alternatives are losing weight, nerve Ablation, and cortisone. Do not underestimate the time you will lose from work and the dependence u will have on wife/husband.

@przygodyzmtb

11 ай бұрын

First of all how much you weight, not everyone is the same.

@rebecajusinovega2497

11 ай бұрын

Wow this is sad.

@phyllisgreaves1012

10 ай бұрын

Everyone pain is totally different. Some people can't tolerate pain like others. I had a total knee replacement on my left knee 6 months ago, and I still have pain because the doctor told me he had to cut a nerve only after asking him why I'm i having numbness in my knee. I couldn't sleep or eat after the surgery, and the painkiller didn't last that long.

Most of the positive comments seem to come from people who experienced severe pain for a long time before the surgery. Mine came after an accident. I had no pain before the surgery even though I had been told previously in X-rays that I had bone on bone. Then one day I fell and the best solution was the TKR. Nine months later I’m still dealing with some pain, mostly muscle related. I think I might have appreciated it more if I had truly been in pain long term before the surgery.

I put off having knee replacement for 29 years after a work related injury. The main reason for delaying it was the how much medical technology has improved for total knee replacement since the injury happened. I was getting the Synvisc injections for the past 5 years which helped greatly but the last injection didn’t help much. Like my doctor said I’m not getting any younger and my knee isn’t getting any better. I highly recommend doing the exercises before and after surgery for a faster and healthier recovery. Getting my knee surgery in two weeks.

@fpineros9189

10 ай бұрын

Scott how are you feeling?

Just 8 weeks in after RTKR MAKO Robotic at 58yrs Old. I now have about 125 degrees bend 0 to -1 degrees straight. I can now cycle for 1 hr and walk for 45 mins on/off road. I had 10yrs bone on bone and deformation Valgus. Cycling kept it going initially. Still lots of work to do on Muscle building and still healing. Still have some swelling. Pain has nearly all gone now unless i overdo it. Nice to have a straight leg too.🙏🙏👏👏😃😃

@hughcannon3569

2 жыл бұрын

It took almost a year for me to adjust to my new knee. I had pain and the dr. told me to give it a year before final judgment. I did and I'm really pleased with my decision. I will need the right knee soon and have no doubts it will be just as good as the left knee.

@GingerEaton-bq5fn

9 ай бұрын

​@@hughcannon3569l

7 days post surgery of p.k.r. but with t.k.r. cut😢 I have chronic degenerative osteoarthritis in both knees and back. Did not expect such a huge cut for a partial knee replacement 🥺 Had bone on bone in my knee and was the last resort! 53 btw They also set me up for appointments 3 days out from surgery I had a post-op with my primary doctor, 5 days out I had physical therapy and 7 days out of post surgery I had another appointment 45 minutes away from my home with my pain clinic.

I was 55 years old two years ago when I had a full/ total knee replacement. The best thing I ever did. Yes it's not perfect, but comes very close. I'm able to walk again without the agonising pain. I had 6 months intensive physiotherapy afterwards, and for better results I should have had physio before surgery. After several years of bone on bone, you have to strengthen all those muscles you weren't using properly, to compensate. And most likely will need the other knee done as well in the future. I was up walking the very next day after surgery, you must use it, or it's all for nothing.

@hughcannon3569

2 жыл бұрын

You are so right. Going to theropy and using it was the best thing i have done for my mobility.

@joemauntel9381

2 жыл бұрын

I am 59 with 2 old sports knees. 16 years as a linebacker, and 7 as a catcher. Eight scopes and one ACL reconstruction over the years have left me with daily pain and seriously compromised mobility. Been unable to work for almost a year. Your post gives me hope. I am doing what I can to strengthen the leg muscles cause the first replacement is not far off. I can't WAIT to walk normal again....without pain and a walker!!!

@stevealker6718

2 жыл бұрын

Im 58 and on the list for total knee replacement on both knees, my youth has finally caught me up lol. I had ran 2 marathons by the time i was 18, played badminton in the welsh u18 squad, retired at 22 as the raf no1 and ran 10 to 12 miles a night so now im paying the price, i have no regrets though. The only thing im concerned with is being able to ride my motorbike afterwards

@joemauntel9381

2 жыл бұрын

@@stevealker6718 We sound alike. I'm 59...16 total years in football as a linebacker, 7 years as catcher. One ACL reconstruction, 7 scopes total. First scope at age 18. Am BARELY mobile, constant pain, and use a walker. Have exhausted EVERY type of medicine and injection....and now it is time. Have not been able to work in almost a year. JUST started doing what leg strengthening exercises that I'm still capable of...in anticipation of replacement surgery. Good luck, my bad knee brother!!!

@stevealker6718

2 жыл бұрын

@@joemauntel9381 hi joe, i think we have had similar paths lol. At 22 i retired from badminton, mainly for personal reasons and took up darts, opposite end of the scale for sport lol. I did well at that too, clocked up 16 international caps, last 32 and last 16 of world championships as well as numerous competition wins totalling nearly 200 in total. The issue with darts is that i started to use alcohol to calm my nerves, was almost teetotal before, and now i have a weight problem. im 6ft 4 and weigh 25 plus stone so i got to lose weight before m my knees can be done, im working on it lol. although i still play darts, locally and county, it is a nighmare with the pain in my knees, i cant walk for a while after a match. Im looking at getting knees done in about 3 years by the look of it. Good luck with your op bro, and let me know how it goes. Im dreading it lol

Thank you Prof. Dr. Bellemans for your informative presentation. Now I know for certain what to look for just in case I need it.

I had both done at once. Great doctor, great results. I was bone on bone. Glad not to have to deal with the pain anymore.

I had R Knee TKR Feb 2021 - best decision ever! Tough rehab but I am as active as ever in sports (57 yr old male). Going for L knee TKR in November.

Very informative presentation . I see my ortho next week and will ask about bone on bone only replacement. Thanks, doctor.

I think I’ve been one of the unlucky ones.I had my first TKR in 2012 when I was 62,after a lot of pain due to wear and tear of keeping very fit and doing Martial Arts for most of my life,until I was 55.The first TKR was giving me pain and was found to have been put in at the wrong angle.Needless to say,I found a great Surgeon who replaced it in 2015 with another TKR, which wasn’t doing too bad until 2020,when I unfortunately suffered a Cardiac Arrest due to Sepsis attacking the Mitral Valve in my heart,which had to be replaced with open heart surgery.I was in hospital for many weeks recovering.Three weeks out of hospital and the Sepsis had moved to my TKR as it was metal.Which meant I had to have it removed and replaced yet again,in two stages. I am now in considerable pain,and finding it difficult to walk,even after lots of physio.I’m told it will take a long time to settle down,and see what it’s like in Jan 2023.If I ever needed to have my other knee done,I would decline.I couldn’t go through all the pain again.Keeping fit all your life isn’t all good.

@groblerful

2 жыл бұрын

I'm sorry to hear of your bad luck. I had a succesful TKR 11 years ago at age 66. My other knee is now starting to give trouble, but I intend to hang on to it as long as I can.

@tagqasim4668

Жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry for all your pain and suffering. I wish you much healing and progress. Hang in there!

Well explained Thankyou. My mom had a total knee replacement 10 years ago and has been left in serve pain. Apparently this is down to nerve damage. It’s heartbreaking to watch someone in such pain

@mickharrison9004

2 жыл бұрын

Wow yes they do cut muscles and nerves during operation ,I'm still in general pain with it after 5 weeks hoping it turns out well in the end two months of life for it ,and over 2 months loss of pay from job is hard .

@clarecadman5330

2 жыл бұрын

@@mickharrison9004 fingers crossed the pain gets better for you.

@mickharrison9004

2 жыл бұрын

@@clarecadman5330 thanks for that Clare and likewise I hope your mum somehow gets better soon .

@mamaumomalematsa7365

2 жыл бұрын

Clare I hope your mom gets better. I had knee replacement on both legs there is no pain.

@clarecadman5330

2 жыл бұрын

@@mamaumomalematsa7365 she’s been told she has to live with it, she been in pain for 10 years and now needs her other knee doing, but will be going to a totally different hospital and have a top surgeon.

I had a bone on bone almost for 20 years of suffuring after a motorcycyle crash. In 2013 i had full replacement.... Since it's like i am born again....no more pain.

@deannarounds3295

2 жыл бұрын

Motorcycle accident was what caused mine to get worse faster. Glad you are doing well.

I have had two replacements one at 70 yrs old and one at 75 yrs old. I am now 79 yrs old , the only complaint I have is that when it gets cold with the metal, my knees ache so I have to wear knee warmers , no hardship with no pain.

@romillasingh7543

2 жыл бұрын

I had totall knee replacement 6 years ago and I am 100 % healed . No regrets

Great information. I had a total knee replacement in 2011, and I am very happy with my result. I have not had any problems; you would not know if I didn't tell you. I was 64 years old, and I am now 76.

@rickhammond2473

Жыл бұрын

Question for you How is your knee doing do you have flexibility are you able to straighten the knee out? My girlfriend is having a problem walking with her full knee replacement hers was done April 2021.

@coronadaking

Жыл бұрын

@@rickhammond2473 My knee is just fine.

@rickhammond2473

Жыл бұрын

@@coronadaking Glad to hear you are lucky. Thanks for responding. Rick

Bone on bone seven years tried everything exercises worked the best but nothing better than having joint replacement! golfing again!! Enjoying life!!

The worst thing I could have ever done. It’s been 8 months since my knee replacement. I’m in CONSTANT pain despite having physical therapy, pain killers and ointments. I regret my decision everyday. I can’t sleep . I can’t turn over with our excruciating pain. It has prohibited me from going back to work. I was a home health care aid. I have an upcoming appointment with a new orthopedic surgeon in a few weeks. I’m praying he has a new non surgical solution for me.

@user-hs8yd2lc7y

4 ай бұрын

How are you doing now?

@rochellebarabin5080

4 ай бұрын

Still the same . On my third Orthopedic surgeon in less than a year. 🤦🏽‍♀️

@user-hs8yd2lc7y

4 ай бұрын

@rochellebarabin5080 I'm sorry to hear, I really hope your pain stops.

@camillesamples8790

27 күн бұрын

My friend told me there was a recall on her prosthetic. She was in constant pain. They had to do another replacement. Then she was so much better.

I had TKR on both knees 5 years ago by robot and went from sheer pain to annoying discomfort. The surgeon was supposed to be the best around. It’s definitely better than it was. According to this video I probably only needed partial knee replacement.

I am 50 and have needed a knee replacement since my accident (falling over a football) in 1994 when I was 21. I have had chronic pain since that day but nobody would help me, saying I was too young and only 2 knee replacements would be done (each lasting 10 years) before they would have to amputate. So I struggled on for decades, taking more and stronger painkillers. Even tramadol does not help now. Back in 2020 before all the nonsense kicked off, the surgeon said I could finally get the replacement but talked about lots of pain afterwards and it’s not likely to be 100% good??!!! Then Covid happened and 3 years later I have listened to 3 people (Celebrities and acquaintances) who all said knee replacement was the worst pain they have ever had. Having had so many disabilities and chronic pain for decades I am extremely frightened to get this done as it could make things worse. Reading comments on here does not help either. Looks like I might take this knackered knee, which is twice the size of the other, to the grave as I really don’t think I can go through with it despite hideous daily pain.

@frankbegley5507

Жыл бұрын

I got Bilateral TKR six weeks ago. Doing my exercises twice a day walking without any aids for about 1Km and increasing. After the surgery with the drugs given to me had little pain.Then after three weeks only taken Paracetamol when needed. I am 79 years old also heard stories about pain but with the drugs nothing to worry about go for it I say you will be pain free.

@rebecajusinovega2497

11 ай бұрын

You will feel pain but can heal. It will gone away and you will feel better. The stretch are important. Do exercises before your TKR , that will help

At age 46, I sustained a knee injury and underwent surgery to remove my entire meniscus, however, my 70% torn ACL was not addressed. After surgery and for two years, I could barely walk even with the use of a cane. I’m 49 now and recently started experiencing severe pain in my knee cap and top of my tibia. However, I am not bone on bone yet, but I’m pretty sure it’s time for TKR. What a tough ordeal!

@oksernil

2 ай бұрын

Did you have tkr

Thank you for explaining it so well. I have bone on bone and have been advised I need TKR in both knees. I'm 71 and in good shape, but I just can't walk very far any more. Have decided to put surgery off, and try physio and exercises. So far its helping, and I'm coping with the problem. Thanks again. Interesting video.

@jondstewart

2 жыл бұрын

71?! I’m 54 and can’t walk at all without it hurting 90% of the time. I’m bone on bone in one compartment of both knees and have cartilage in one area and the middle is 90% gone. I’ve been too active and worked hard most of my life, big mistake!

@XX-166

2 жыл бұрын

I just completed the PRP treatment a month ago and I’m about 2-3 more months out to see how well my body will help it’s growth. I have a torn meniscus for the 3rd time and I’ve been treating this knee very conservatively with viscous gel shots.. 1 a week for 4 weeks and squats to strengthen the quads, core and glutes so we will see how things go. I’ve been putting off the replacement idea but according to the X-rays I’m not bone on bone hence the PRP and gel shots. I could be a robotic one side only but I’ll stick with the above treatments.

@robertmorgan6179

2 жыл бұрын

CONFORMIS PROCEDURE. SPECIALIST IN LONDON BRIDGE HOSPITAL MR ian mcdermott

@brandstyle3639

2 жыл бұрын

X X what prp we are not Doctor to know medical short term

@XX-166

2 жыл бұрын

@@brandstyle3639 that answered the questions for us all.

I had therapy I had cortisone. I had gel shots. Finally five weeks ago I had TKR. I wish I could have done it earlier. I wanted it and knew I needed it.

I had a uni-compartmental knee replacement using the NAV system fifteen months ago. It felt great from three to five months,then it started to feel tight like a band was squeezing the knee. I’m getting an ablation in two weeks for the nagging patella pain. Nothing is like the pain I had before surgery. I couldn’t walk to my mailbox. Now I do most things, walking and biking are just accompanied by what I call “fun-sucking pain.” I’m one of the 15% that has long term post-op patella pain. I don’t blame anyone, the knee is a complex joint, not like the hip.

@robynfoss9449

Жыл бұрын

The band is the Twisted old scar tissue from when your knee was unstable the body lays down contraction into the muscles and then the muscle connective tissue places a horizontal band or belt to try and tighten to stabilize the knee. I wish you were closer to me I'm a body worker that could really help you with that releasing the scar tissue and it adhesions, I had full total knee replacement in 2018 released the bone muscles and old restrictions and adhesions and I was out blowing snow in 3 weeks

@bohickity

Жыл бұрын

@@robynfoss9449 Thanks for the encouragement. I’m going to revisit the knee in the fall. My surgeon didn’t think PT, revision, or steroids would help. I have a syndrome that includes musculoskeletal abnormalities, inflammation and excess bone growth. It will be two years since my surgery soon, and along with the arthritis in my ankles, back, and R elbow, I may have to make some decisions soon, but not during my beautiful Smoky Mountain summer.

@bohickity

15 күн бұрын

Update, my tibial component was loose. After two and a half years I’m two months out from my revision to a total knee replacement . Time will tell if I made the right decision. It was a hard choice, the failed partial’s painwas a fun-sucking pain usually 6/10. Two months into my total and my pain has decreased 6/10. The revision was much harder than my original partial replacement. Whatever, it’s been a “life changing event.

67 years old, both knees have OA. Been doing extensive strengthening in the gym and 2 miles per day walking with off loading braces. I am scheduled next week for TKR of left. I am hoping all my presurgery workouts pay dividends in post surgery PT and full recovery.

Im only 40 and I’m scared to get knee replacement but it’s coming up soon. Im optimistic that it will help because let’s be real can’t get worse. It’s bone on bone both kneecaps pop if I bend or move a certain way constant pain some days I have a hard time walking !! I have a little girl who will be so happy to see mommy walking around again without having to stop every few steps. Prayers please

Thanks, this explained things better then a fast talking physician and his accompanying student almost physician who’s in the room watching the knee exam.

You are providing a true service by sharing this information with the lay public. Thank you for this. I am a prospective candidate for surgery on both knees. Sorry if name icon comes up 2x. Some sort of computer glitch.

I am researching these videos because I have been diagnosed with left knee interior compartment bone on bone. From what I have seen the partial knee replacement should be the best option instead of TKR. I want to thank all the medical professionals for posting the information on KZread.

He is absolutely right I made a mistake when I did my partial knee replacement but I did have bone on bone on one side but not the other side and then after 5 years then the other side started then the doctor had to go back in my knee remove the partial knee replacement and then the full knee replacement I would never again ever make that mistake.

After suffering for two years from a knee injury and waiting for any treatment. I had 3 knee surgeries in less then a year on my left knee at age 60. First was Orthoscopic Mar 2017 which failed causing a serious infection. 2nd was Dec 2017 where I received total (temporary left knee). That was not permanent and the purpose was to treat the infection for two months before my 3rd left TKR surgery in Feb 2018. The surgery was somewhat successful as the pain is more or less gone, but range of motion never fully returned. I’m limited in my activities and struggle going up and down stairs. Even though it’s not perfect, I at least have some quality of life.

You need to know to be diligent but careful with physical therapy after surgery. I am 50 and had RTKR July 2021. I had a very difficult recovery, compounded by allergy to the dermabond used and then rough PT. I have been physically fit, but nothing prepares you for this recovery.

@mickharrison9004

2 жыл бұрын

True I'm on 5 th week recovering after knee operation ,still bad pain and taking heavy painkillers including morphine still wakes me up early morning ,broken sleep on top of it very hard like you say .

I have Ehlers Danlos Syndrome . Needless to say on my best day my pain level is at a 7. I am 61 and I finally found a surgeon who is willing to give me a TKR of my left knee. After looking at my MRI'S and x-rays he said after seeing thousands of damaged knees he has never seen one like mine and that is why he decided to do the surgery because he said he can't imagine being in the amount of pain that I am in. He also said that if I was a normal patient he would also do a TKR on my right knee but for now he doesn't want to. If it wasn't for this disease I would also be getting both hips, ankles , and right shoulder replacement.

Great to see I'm not the only one struggling... I'm 59 now and I feel that I have to make a decision on going for surgery or not.... Pain is a daily companion,

@lisatodd

Жыл бұрын

I'm 58 and trying to make the same decision I have bone on bone and need total knee replacement on both knees I'm very nervous about having this done

I had one total replacement at 63 and 65 I've never looked back the best thing I had done. Through hard work and physio and hydrotherapy excellent

Thanks Sir.. One of the best video to understand clearly, what surgery to go for.

May 29,2023. I had total knee replacement, I've been in SEVERE pain since the surgery on February 13. I've had two manipulations and the surgeon wanted to do a third. I have scar tissues really bad. Am seeking another doctor. 😢

told to have total knee.......as was my friend.......she had partial in both knees with robotic surgery and is doing well....i am scheduled for partial with same surgeon to correct valgus.....

"15% unsatisfied".........I know four guys over 50 yrs. that have had full replacements and, from what I can tell, none are satisfied with the way they feel or function. My right knee is shot due to an injury and I have TOTALLY hesitated at a full replacement. This video has opened my eyes to the previously unrealized option of (Medial) Unicompartmental Replacement.

Had a partial knee replacement at age 67, had a total knee replacement at age 68, my choice Total knee replacement, quicker recovery, less pain, pain never above 4,5...it's like a new life!!

@gwenhatcher7542

2 жыл бұрын

I’m getting a right tkr. I waited so long I’m miserable, but your comments make me feel relieved.

@myopinion8062

2 жыл бұрын

@@gwenhatcher7542 hi Gwen I feel for you I see my specialist may 5th my knee is in very bad pain I hope you get your knee fixed soon

Wow just learned another thing or two. Thank you!

Thank you so much for the education.

I had knee replacement 8 years ago. The procedure was called Conformis. Came out of hospital on December 23rd went for a short walk new years day. Still brilliant

@jessggppbutterfield6542

2 жыл бұрын

I found this - very - hard to believe

@robertmorgan6179

2 жыл бұрын

Certainly did

Thank you very much Prof. Bellemans for this cogent and easily understood podcast.

had total replacement 2 years ago. happy with results. but you must do therapy and follow guidance. first 3 weeks suck but after that gets much better and you get your mobility back. if you need it get it.

Dear MMT: I read your comments about your TKR with great interest as I am sitting on the fene in my research trying to decide on either a pkr or a tkr. I am 77 year old however am in great shape to do ther type of labore work that I enjoy: removing and reapairing neighbors flat tires for free and solving their HVAC system problem free. I do it for no mony bcase I need labor projects to feel tha I am stll contributioh.

i had full knee replacement had i am very happy with it as time Gose on i am sure their will be better product but i am 80 and my knee is doing great

Wow. Clear, short & sweet. Awesome!

I had a partial knee replacement in my 40’s due to osteoarthritis then had total knee replacement on the same knee in my 50’s and have had pain in my knee ever since. I need my other knee replaced but the total knee replacement was so awful I will never get my other knee replaced.

@claudiocorleone7856

2 жыл бұрын

Please do not take this in a bad way but men seem to have better success than women when it comes to TKR . Having said that we are all different but it seems 75% of people that are not satisfied are females.

Ive had both knees replaces, 6 weeks apart in 2007. Plus both hips replace. No more pain there, none other has ever known. My weight is 326 lbs. But, the sad part is, more activity means other joints like shoulders and back will hurt next. All joints are lined up and ready to render pain, one after the other.

@tagqasim4668

Жыл бұрын

I'm so sorry for all your pain! I really hope modern medicine catches up already with the root causes of this inflammatory illnesses to nip them in the bud. Wish u the best!

I had a total knee replacement done 3 years ago. I’m now 72. I would never go through this again. Too many limitations on what you can do after and the amount of Physical Therapy needed just to get functional. Although I’m mostly pain free now, the physical limitations are difficult to overcome. Maybe it’s more about trying all the alternatives prior to getting the surgery done. In my opinion it’s a last resort.

Had my TKRs - staged, bilateral - by Mathias Bostrom at HSS in NYC this year. Awesome experience. Robots used there.

I had bone on bone. Got the knee replacement surgery in Feb. Am still suffering with pain, swelling of knee and foot, stiffness and limited range of motion (did all the PT appts. too). I still can't climb stairs; I can't sleep in my bed---I sleep in a recliner. My life is not much better post surgery than pre-surgery. I cancelled the surgery on the left knee---also bone on bone. I've just given up.

@juliewalker3884

3 ай бұрын

April 21 2024 hi same thing with me it’s been terrible 😢can’t bend them hurt unsteady I guess you only have a certain time period right after surgery to bend your knee, my knees are worse off now than they were before

@juliewalker3884

3 ай бұрын

This sucks everyone else is saying oh how happy they are with their knee surgery. I wish I was one of them.

@juliewalker3884

3 ай бұрын

5:02 I’ve given up also

@FlexibleFlyer50

3 ай бұрын

@@juliewalker3884 Here I am a year and a half later; ortho doc told me not to return---can't do anything for me. Feet and knees are swollen; my balance is hot; I now have neuropathy in my feet; knee is still and swollen beyond belief. I understand what you're going through. Had I known that I would have ended up like this----disabled----I would have never had the surgeery.

@FlexibleFlyer50

3 ай бұрын

@@juliewalker3884 Doctors lie. No 96% rate success. More like 70%. I've met people with 2 revision surgeries on the same knee----and no better. Disgust and anger.

It will be interesting to see future/long-term studies on newer implants and robotics on TKR outcomes. Some surgeons are now saying a majority of patients after TKR could return to sports/running (I think mainly robotic surgeons are saying this)! That's fantastic if true! The only thing I will say is ultimately, even if it wasn't bone-on-bone but the patient's quality of life was severely hindered, you would think a TKR would in those cases be justified (if no other intervention could help).

grt video,i am going to have knee replacement right side,was worried now,im ready,thankssss alot sir.

Professor Bellemans is top doctor in Belgium 🇧🇪

« إِنَّ اللَّهَ وَمَلَائِكَتَهُ يُصَلُّونَ عَلَى النَّبِيِّ ۚ يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا صَلُّوا عَلَيْهِ وَسَلِّمُوا تَسْلِيمًا » 🥰 سبحان الله ... الحمد لله ... لا إله إلا الله .... الله أكبر .... لا حول ولاقوة إلا بالله.

Thank you doctor. I am the sort of person who likes to know what I may be dealing with. At least when faced with the prospect of knee sugery I will be more informed. Faced with a ortho consult you will be able to ask the questions.So often there is a lack of communication to the patient exactly whats involved.

I had a total knee replacement at age 47 and have lots of scar tissue. I need to have my other knee done but won’t because I am afraid of the same result as the first one