The Super Duty was an emissions compliant race engine back then. When everyone else threw in the towel on the muscle car, Pontiac threw up a middle finger. But in the process, the Super Duty lost 20 horsepower from its original 310 hp rating. Still, an engine for the ages

@wesdoobner7521

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, it was an awesome engine, but too bad so few were made. Kind of a dead end like the ford SOHC 427.

@CaptainFALKEN

2 жыл бұрын

Pontiac was still young in the racing industry, so they had a rebelling attitude and sass. Nothing's gonna stop we Pontiac boyz from driving hard and kicking ass.

@ztwntyn8

10 ай бұрын

They just took the cam down a notch fro 041 to 068. 068 is an excellent cam for any stock port engine. Idle to 5k and doesn’t matter if you have high or low compression still works well. If high comp you need better octane though because the cam causes high cyl psi. It works with stock springs unlike the 041. It also works with whatever rear gears but I wouldn’t want more than 3.90 on a 400 and not more than 3.42 for 455 and on the street I’d use 3.08 for the 455.. maybe the 400 but prefer 3.42 on a 400 and stock torque converter works fine. More stall speed wouldn’t help a 455 but maybe a 3k stall speed for the 400 especially on the strip. Sorry to go on but I like it a lot 😂

I'm a chevy guy but that was a helluva race! These are not pinnacle muscle cars because of stricter emission laws and lower compression kicking in but Pontiac big block torque is no joke!Moving these two heavy weights to low 13 second passes at over 100 mph is a thing of pure beauty! Big respect to big Poncho power!

@roadtesttv

4 жыл бұрын

Well said, Ronnie. Agree 100%. Thanks for watching !

@rudolphguarnacci197

4 жыл бұрын

@Mark Richards My mom bought a 1967 Firebird new. It had the 326. Not too shabby.

@tomrados7512

4 жыл бұрын

@Mark Richards Ha ha, kinda like someone telling you that the biggest motor you could put in a Vega is a 327.

@petenewland291

4 жыл бұрын

@Mark Richards exactly .. pontiac engines were all the same size .. so they don't have typical big/ small definition from 326 to 455.. heck my dodge 360 is bigger then my ta455

@milojanis4901

4 жыл бұрын

@Mark Richards They're not small blocks either.

For all you Pontiac bashers out there, here is what Pontiac was all about back in the day, truly the end of an amazing era! Both cars are totaly awesome. Great run!

Dang, that was a close race!

@davidgraham2673

4 жыл бұрын

Thought for sure the Trans Am was going to lose. He squeaked it out.

@John1Brady

4 жыл бұрын

@@davidgraham2673 watch again, the ET lights for the GTO first. The slip is the of reaction time to finish lights. The GTO got the holeshot

Paul Aragona in the 74 SD T/A. He has shown to be in the 12.6 area. He's been racing this awhile and I am sure everytime he's got big smile on his face.

The early 70's Pontiac S.D. engine is often not understood/overlooked. It was not related to the H.O. or Ram Air engines and has an interesting origin.

@superduty4556

4 жыл бұрын

Gotta love the forged rods.

@bailey9r

3 жыл бұрын

@@superduty4556 True, funny though it had a poor camshaft (RA III) the HO had a RA IV

@gt-37guy6

3 жыл бұрын

@@bailey9r 455 HO did NOT use RAIV cam. It would not have passed emissions. Wallace Racing has the cam for ALL HO engines as same: 1965-72 HO Stamping: "S" Dur IN / EX 288 113 lift IN / EX .407" .447" PN 9779068. As mentioned above comments this GTO certainly does NOT have a stock camshaft, I can tell you that.

@clevlandblock

3 жыл бұрын

@@bailey9r If you stood behind my stock 74 SD 4 speed at idle you might change your mind...it's a raspy cam. And when I nail it in first, the wheelspin STARTS when it comes up on the cam around 3000 rpm. As far as the 455 HO cam goes, if you do some checking you'll see it had the so-called "HO" camshaft. This was more conservative than the RA 3 and way softer than the RA 4 cam.

@clevlandblock

3 жыл бұрын

@@aldo6192 I've only owned three SD-455 cars plus a standard 455 73 TA. I've followed the SD cars since summer of 72 when they were announced. I was in the dealership to order one October 72. And I have a sizeable library of original road tests and hard cover books on the subject. Dream on Aldo.

Cool race. The Goat came closer than I expected. Give credit to the driver, knowing how to row a 4 speed. (A lost and dying art). Thanks for posting.

@scottsharp3356

2 жыл бұрын

Too much Cam in that goat. I bet it runs hot as hell

@joequillun7790

Жыл бұрын

@@scottsharp3356 Too much cam? Runs hot? Given the info presented above, how could you possibly conclude that? Do you personally happen to know the car and driver?

I don't recall the stock GTO's sounding like that. That one had a little more lope than I remember.

@richardmarcott4343

4 жыл бұрын

jbr496 definitely not stock, cam upgrade

@DeanMk1

3 жыл бұрын

@@richardmarcott4343 ...upgraded to the HO cam, or are you saying it has an aftermarket cam?

@bgandjsco1

3 жыл бұрын

Thats right. The Only Pontiac that sounded like that was the RAM AIR 4 which had 520 lift.

@DeanMk1

3 жыл бұрын

@@bgandjsco1 ...Hmmm, a Ram Air IV...55. I love it! =D

@bgandjsco1

3 жыл бұрын

@@aldo6192 First off the two cams are very similar AND are not even close to the RamAir 4 cam . I'll say it again that is not a stock cam in that GTO . Second the SD was a better engine. It had a stronger Block . Forged Rods,and its Cylinder heads flowed better,and its Qjet flowed 800CFM

I was predicting beforehand that that race would be VERY close. GTO had 10 more horses but 200 more lbs to lug around. Good race and nice cars!

I wonder how different things would have been if the the Trans Am was a manual instead of an auto and if it had a posi rear end or if the GTO was an auto instead of a stick. Those two cars were really closely matched though and I think the factory HP/TQ numbers from Pontiac back in the day were just a little underrated...

@ztwntyn8

11 ай бұрын

Both have posi for sure. I agree that’s an excellent match

@ztwntyn8

10 ай бұрын

With 455s I feel like auto is quicker but both of these breathe better than D-port heads I’m used to so the 4spd may be quicker for a good driver (outa the hole mainly but gotta powershift too lol).

Thanks for making a car video without fart sounds like that Car and Zebras guy.

@roadtesttv

4 жыл бұрын

midnight savannah Thanks for watching, Midnight. We like sticking to the facts ...

@bailey9r

3 жыл бұрын

Oh I hat that too

@SuperPattab

3 жыл бұрын

Exactly ! Same thing for me, i like those race without fart sound or movie sequence.

@judgegixxer

3 жыл бұрын

Same track, same Title fonts/colours/graphics.....pretty sure it's different channel same dude.

I had a 74 SD TransAm, it was that flip flop blue to purplish color. Had a black interior and a 4 speed. I think there were on 50 4 speeds made that year. That's one car I wish I never got rid of.

@roadtesttv

4 жыл бұрын

The Super Duty Trans Am is something special especially considering the years it was produced (73-74) since most other manufacturers had nothing to compete with it.

@chutoparadinni5474

4 жыл бұрын

212 in 74

@dirkpittthegreat4559

3 жыл бұрын

@@roadtesttv ...great channel...love the work u do. Speaking of cars I wish I hadn't gotten rid of on this thread.. 67 GTO 4 SPEED...70 Olds 442 W30..what was I thinking! 🤔😅

That’s about the coolest race I’ve ever seen. Two of Pontiacs premium muscle cars and engines.

I only ever raced a TA SD 455 ONCE and it was not on the track but rather from a 45 mph roll. It was on a section of 2 lane road leaving Willow Springs Raceway. I was behind the Pontiac and didn't know it was a SD 455. I was in my 71 Pantera which in 1990 was running a 351 Cleveland with a lot of solid lifter cam ported heads long tube headers and a 3310 Holley. Bottom end was stock except for Carillo rods . The engine had dynoed at 423 hp at the crank. I pulled out to pass downshifting to 2nd. He jumped on it and it was game on. After shifting to 3rd I had pulled on him enough to read SD 455 on the hood scoop. I continued to gradually pull on him until I hit 4th and could tuck in front of him. I figured he'd give up then but he didn't. I continued to gradually open a gap till around 130 at which point I shifted to 5th and began to open some serious daylight between us. That occurred around 145. At that point I concluded that with his hydraulic lifter engine and gearing and lack of over drive I'd run him out of gear and or motor so I shut down at about 160. He came up along side me shaking his head like he couldn't believe it. I was quite surprised that he'd given me such a run frankly. Honestly he probably would have beaten me in the quarter from a standing start as I wouldn't have sidestepped the clutch and it was virtually impossible to powershift the gated ZF transaxle and a good way to break one or a half shot anyway. Bur like most people I kid of had little respect for any muscle car built after 71 due to the low compression and mild cams and emission equipment. I'd had far less trouble with 454 Vettes of thst vintage and had utterly humiliated a Ferrari 365 GTB on the 210 Fwyway. So I really didn't expect the Pontiac to put up the fight that it did. It would have been interesting if he'd had around a .7 OD gear. From the way the 455 owner was shaking his head he was a bit surprised by my Pantera also and I'd wager that he had raced and beaten stock Panteras previously. The stock Pantera as delivered from Mercury in 1971 was rated at 300 hp which was probably pretty accurate. . 8

I have had a lot of fast cars and have to say my 74 455SD was a beast. Service manual stated engine would sound loose and it did. But it was fast. The 400 automatic transmission from the factory didn't give any control from 1st to 2nd gear, but the torque made up for it. It would Rev up high too.

@roadtesttv

Жыл бұрын

@G Holloway Agree. The 455SD was a beast. Thanks for sharing !!

Just subscribed to your site, my health has failed me so i do not get to the track anymore. God bless you guys for this KZread channel!!!!!!

Pontiac against Pontiac... But my $$$ is on the Tran... Lighter!!! Smaller!!! Boss SD455!!! Tran edged out GTO!!! On our "small track" back then, GTO could give many a serious run, but that SD455 FINALLY gives the Tran the Power it should have had all along!!! Would LOVE to own one. Wish GM would bring Pontiac back.💜

Great video and great race! I knew it would be close but I figured the edge would go to the GTO because of the 4 speed.

@roadtesttv

4 жыл бұрын

88tcoupe - Glad you liked the video and Thanks for the support!

@bustersmith5569

4 жыл бұрын

76 what ? Don't understand that at all !!!

@karlepaul6632

4 ай бұрын

?? Generally automatics do better in the quarter mile

GTO (left lane) has the win light.

I don't know how I missed your channel for so long, so when I discovered it, I promptly subscribed. When I was living in Gretna, LA (New Orleans' West Bank) I had, for a brief while, a '67 GTO with the factory 400 and auto tranny. It's funny - almost uncanny - how "Poncho" people meet and get to know eachother in a town the size of Gretna! I met these 2 guys who lived across the street from eachother. One had a stock '72 SD Trans Am, great condition and factory stock. The other guy had a '71 GTO Judge he had swapped out the original 400 to install a 421 he had gotten out of a '65 or '66 Catalina 2+2 (remember those?) with the tri-power. He had COMPLETELY did a body off restoration on this car and had a scrapbook full of pictures of it in various stages of restoration. He was in the end stages of installing the engine when I met him. I moved away before it was completed. He planned to garage it, drive it minimally, then meticulously clean it before he showed it. Yes, it was "fireball orange" with yellow stripes. I've been meaning to check the Gretna directory if he's still there and still has the car after all these years. 🚗

@roadtesttv

11 ай бұрын

@daleandrews3552 Thanks for sharing the story of your 67 GTO. The 67 is one of the best looking GTO’s in our opinion. Also, we are glad you found the channel. Thanks for watching !!

That was the best race I've seen on this channel! Nice work!

Back in my computer tech days in the late 70's early 80's, I serviced computers at Pontiac, as part of my assigned area. I remember seeing an engine sitting on a cradle in a corner in one of the plants, along with some other stuff. The engine was painted gray, unlike the blue engine in the '71 T/A I had at the time. I think it was a 455 SD, but I could't be sure, as I wasn't into looking at head casting numbers at the time. I get to wondering now and then what happened to it.

Can't get a much closer race!

Close Race - Actually that 74 SD-455 T/A has run a best of 12.46 @ 109 mph - specs per pure stock rules milled heads 9.7 - 1 comp. 3.9 rear gears - factory style tires - 399 rwhp - SD has lots of potential left PMD Test Mule SD-455 made 600 hp 12.5-1 comp etc. :)

@roadtesttv

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the info. 12.4 @ 109 is flying with that SD considering the rules in the Pure Stock class. 👍

@markmccarty727

4 жыл бұрын

I'm a Ford guy, but I'd be the first to admit the sd455 TA kept the dream alive. Saw a test once where a SD ran 13.9 on pump gas bone stock. No need to turn it past 5300 RPM! Just good ole gut wrenching tourque. Timeless body lines too.

@74SD455TA

3 жыл бұрын

Correct, this SD 455 T/A is owned by Paul Aragona and did just that.

Sick!!! From a true Pontiac enthusiastic! Great driving skills and pure Pontiac Power!

Man that was too close .the weight of the GTO might have been a factor

i had a 1976 TA that was castrated it was all I could do to beat a pinto, My buddy had a 1977 Vet he called it the plastic pig, 0-60 about 5 minutes ,

Very good race. Gotta love the classic muscle cars

The 455 HO GTO does not have a stock Cam.

@JRC99

3 жыл бұрын

Doesn't have the original style tires either. Those are radials.

It was all in the driver. Great race.

It would take at least 350 hp or more to get that 13.09. That motor is way underrated.

That’s one of the best Pontiac vs Pontiac races you could have imo

Love the Pontiac on Pontiac violence

Poncho power long after the other guys gave up

@jerrycallo

3 жыл бұрын

True

Had a chance to have bought a TA looking just like this one same year when i lived in IL in 2006. Car was in original condition low miles for less than 17K! Should have bought it!!!

@jerrycallo

3 жыл бұрын

Yes you should have. I promise you that you would not regret it. It's never too late.

You got a 74 290/395 T/A SD You got a 72 300/415 GTO .. Both bad ass cars ... After seeing an actual race .. both of these cars were called “Sleds” in my heyday.. some said.. these BB’s are only pushing 300hp .. well as we all can see here ... Never mind the HP .. look at the torque!! 395/415 ... that’s what pushes these sleds .. me personally would love to own that 455SD ..

I always think this 428 Cobra jet V/S 455 SD!!!

Gotta go see this race.

Nice loving classics

@roadtesttv

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks. We like seeing hard running old school muscle.

Surprised the transam didn't have posi traction!

@jeffwilson4243

3 жыл бұрын

All trans ams have positraction from the factory

They both cut good lights, excellent matchup. The right driver & tune up mean everything on street tires.

I have to call BS on those numbers on the 455 SD, I have personally been in the passenger seat of a stock 73 and it had way more torque than is rated.

If both cars were completely stock the 455 HO GTO should be faster due to the higher compression ratio. Both the Trans AM and the GTO have the round port heads. Race was very very close and mind you, no one in their right mind really has a totally stock muscle car these days.

loved this channel for years. GTO was NOT stock, and running what it did for a '72 just proves my point. it ran what a '70 would have. love old pontiac's, thanks for this.

@chutoparadinni5474

3 жыл бұрын

None of the cars are factory stock

Wonder if these two have comparable gear ratios? That wasn't stated.

Very cool. TA looked to launch slightly better

Trans am baby👊👊👊👊👊👊👊🤠🤠🤠

Riding shotgun we stacked a 72 455 H.O. GTO on the Auburn California bridge back in the day...

SD lost 20 Horsepower from the original rating of 310 because Pontiac was going to use the RAIV Camshaft but the engine didn't pass emissions . The RAIV camshaft was stamped with a K in 1973 and rated the engine at 310 HP. Because a milder cam was used the engine was rated at 290 HP. Still both numbers were underrated. Takes 370 HP plus to push a 3750 Trans AM into the 13s so the ratings were still lower to fool save on the insurance premiums.

Those are 13:50 cars. Cams and exhaust do the trick. More compression they would be in the 12's. This race was won on the starting line.

If this vid taught me anything it is that old schools are bad ass and 300hp isn't enough.

@markg7030

4 жыл бұрын

Both of these cars have more than 300 horses. They are modified and pushing around 450+........

The T/A had a little less power, but the weight advantage is what showed here.

@SealofPerfection

4 жыл бұрын

I don't think there really was a weight advantage. T/A's usually weighed in the 3900lb range. I seriously doubt this one was 3600.

@thereluctantgearhead4544

4 жыл бұрын

On a dyno, SD455s make more power than HO455s. That GTO is definitely "blueprinted".

@MidnightinSavannah

3 жыл бұрын

@@SealofPerfection Unless he has pulled all the bumper supports. The 1974 and '75 TAs are heavy.

The SD is running as expected for a stock example. The HO is likely modified ( cam, 1.65 rocker arms?). I have an original Motor Trend test of a 72 HO 455 4 speed GTO that they couldn't get to run quicker than the 15s.

@chutoparadinni5474

3 жыл бұрын

Both not 100% stock

@clevlandblock

3 жыл бұрын

@@aldo6192 If you say so Aldo. Read a book.

Trans Am was power brake and just to get the wheels to burn from the starting line where he get all that power to beat the G T O

I would like to have seen a little more fair of a race. Both cars with a 4spd stick or automatic then we can see which has more oomph.

@hotboyjones9551

3 жыл бұрын

Come on how much closer can it really be?

Now that was a race.....

Vaya buena Carrera pues , ese es el Pontiac Gto the judge 455 ho de 1971 vs Pontiac Firebird Trans Am 455 Super Duty

I'm surprised they let the GTO run with radials on it. EDIT: Checked the rules and regular street radials are allowed. I retract my prior statement but am still putting it out there as that means that SD is *fast* to still chase him down with a pretty sizable traction disadvantage

The Trans Am looked like it didn't have a limited slip

Need to work on traction control on that GTO - wheel hop...

Oh no 2 GM cars who will win? A tie so both win lol.

looked like that ta had a open read end

Be nice to know the rear gears of them 2. I'm guessing 3.08s (T/A), and 3.55s, (Goat)

Prity much a tie

428 sj grand prix would dust that goat 1969 style faster bet

Neither one knows how to do a burnout, LOL

There are many ways to hide mods on pure stock class vehicles. There’s also hidden weight, hidden weight reduction, tire softeners, etc. These cars didn’t record quite this quick times, pure stock, back in the day

freaking hot sex tubes 455. Put modern rubber, tires and updated suspension geometry on and these things would be pulling flat 12's every time.

❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥❤‍🔥

Toss up on the stat sheet, toss up on the track.

Quit with the lbs ft ----- sick.

I'm surprised I thought the 74 would loose to a 72.

I am surprised the TA SD455 had no positraction...

Which one weighed more?

Why do they suffer these boat anchor engines when a nice Chevy would drop right in ?

@chutoparadinni5474

3 жыл бұрын

GTFO Poser!!!

Oh come on man this wasn't fair at all in 1972 horsepower was almost dead it barely had a heartbeat but by 1974 horsepower what is long dead and buried I mean if you're going to start racing and testing American Muscle you need to start comparing cars between the years of 66 to 71 or it's not even worth watching because it's just too predictable sorry but that's the reality of it

@joequillun7790

4 жыл бұрын

In one respect, you're right, in that when GM dropped their compression in 71, HP fell off. But these 2 cars are in a class by themselves. 73-74 SDs, altho laden with smog, still had respectable power. The 455 HO Goat with the 4 speed, wasn't far behind. Both cars are rare, and deserve the respect they earned, by being very competitive in their stock classes, back in the day. (and even by todays standards.)