Cawl: If I were to have a backstory, I'd prefer it to be multiple choice....

@TDBoedy

4 жыл бұрын

E) all of the above

@Anton-cc7yc

4 жыл бұрын

Well, his backstory is a bit of a clusterfuck... however, you should at least admit that his personality is ffffffucking amazing, at least in “The Great Work”. He is a fucking genius... infuriating, egotistical, self-centered, arrogant bastard who is always thinking that he is right... and I fucking love it.

@FreeOfFantasy

4 жыл бұрын

Honestly if you take the bit that he brainjacked a bunch of other techpriests than it's not that bad. It's just the backstories of the techpriests he absorbed.

@Anton-cc7yc

4 жыл бұрын

ukezi fair point. However, Arch’s criticism has its merits. Just amount of money he had to spend... well, to put it mildly: he have to be 40k version of Bill Gates who completely robbed Trump and few others CEO. Hope they will explain it in the next books as well as his relationship with Guilliman, Emperor and Felix. But still, I hadn’t seen so entertaining and engaging character from BL for a long long time.

@AtomicFire1972

4 жыл бұрын

Cawl has something of a backstory. But like much of the lore in 40k, there is much omitted and mysterious.

Me: *knows nothing about Crawl* Arch: *lists a series of nonsense backstories* Me: "Yeah those would be ridiculous" Arch: ".. and it was ALL OF THEM"

@dannythehonestgamer6051

4 жыл бұрын

And that is how you create a massive plot hole that makes no sense what so ever.

@brigandboy1425

4 жыл бұрын

He even forgot about the part where Cawl basically backs up his brain in a self-made computer that fits in his hands. It's about the size of a baseball, if I recall. Which he made in a workshop in his spare time while he was a tech adept who was dodging promotion (and servitude to one discipline). Also left out the part where Cawl used that backup as extra RAM for a direct neural interface with drones, so he could control a few dozen more and save the station from xenos. Cawl is so awesome he can hack the gibson by himself.

@modakkagitplugga

4 жыл бұрын

Plot hole so dense it's officially a singularity

@Elenrai

4 жыл бұрын

@@brigandboy1425 Dont forget that he literally stored his best friend on the equivalent of a 5GB USB flashdrive AFTER the friend died, and proceeded to make some +70 fucking servitor versions of his friend! (Not all at once, his "best friend" just seems to have made it a bad habit imo!)

@mobiuscoreindustries

4 жыл бұрын

yeah, cawl is stupid. I mean, i like 40k characters with an actual brain, that stay on the very edge of morality and are willing to break imperial laws when they feel like it is needed, and i actually like the looks of him, but cawl just goes too far. it is a big issues when writers want to assert a character in a story, because they want it to be better, stronger and more important than everyone else. but this is 40k, things are already batshit crazy, but there is limits. yes, it is true that the emperor didn't exactly made the perfect model for space marines, since he needed to have them ready for the great crusade, and well, he needed them for a similar purpose as the thunder warriors, and those where far from perfect. but this is still the god damn emperor, with the full support of all the resources of terra AND thousands of years of knowledge including things dating from the golden age of technology AND arcane warp knowledge beyond the comprehension of anyone. you simply cannot beat that, even with ten thousands years of research, even IF you aren't a newcomer to that field. improvements in some fields? maybe, probably. after all you do have data gathered from the great crusade and everything the space marines did, which big E didn't have, as he MADE the things first. so it is reasonable that you could find some ways the template could be improved. same goes for the armor. if you have the template and are willing to actually invent things, you could simply apply the concept, and really think in your domain of expertise and eventually come out with ways of making things better. takes a lot of times, resources, and blokes with very specific skills, but it can be done. but that MF did it in almost EVERY FIELD, while also making BRAND NEW THINGS, ALONE AND IN SECRET!!! I mean, i know that if you are willing to use AI very illegaly, you can be pretty clever, but i don't see how you could be able to shuffle MILLIONS of primaris marines around the galaxy under the eye of the god damn inquisition, people who will come down on your planet as soon as some bloke even breathed the wrong way.

The Horus Heresy: where literally everyone lost. Except Guilliman.

@ultra-papasmurf

4 жыл бұрын

*Shadily looks at you*

@murderousmayhem6362

4 жыл бұрын

@@ultra-papasmurf Lol

@luizhenriquealves9755

4 жыл бұрын

Guilliman is a politician, even when they lose they win something else, politics are all about backstabs, failsafes, deals and getting the upper hand eventually, Guilliman being the politics and admistration primarch is suposed be cappable of winning somehow someway even when all turns to shit, also he's the daddy of ultramarines he's never suposed to lose

@atsukunisumeragi1967

4 жыл бұрын

@@luizhenriquealves9755 makes me think of the Fresh Prince part 2. How funny it would be if The Emperor threw Guilliman and Cawl both out of the airlock.

@JoshuaKevinPerry

3 жыл бұрын

Neck slit thrown in a ditch 10k years..

*Grey Knight:* I am a super space marine! *Cawl:* Behold, I have created super duper space marines! *Grey Knight:* (To self) A super duper space marine? Then I must achieve a level far beyond that. I will become a super de duper space marine!

@DragonHammer45

4 жыл бұрын

AND THIS, IS TO GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND-

@DragonHammer45

4 жыл бұрын

WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY--

@dropdead234

4 жыл бұрын

Better than the Grey Knights !? *GASP* *MATT WARD SEEEEEEEETHEEEEESSSSS.*

@kmeanxneth

4 жыл бұрын

space wolves say hi

@nobleman9393

4 жыл бұрын

Cawl: This isn't even my final form!

"How the hell are we gonna justify Guilliman coming back?" "Weren't his wounds healing even while in stasis as though it were a miracle?" "Fuck you, life support power armor!"

"When you need to purge just purge, don't talk" - brother captain Eastwoodous the dirty

@vladdrakul7851

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah I am sure every totalitarian regime agrees with you. Look at China! Clint Eastwood was a spokes person for police that murder rather than follow THE LAW, as in all types of fascism, which kind of underlines the whole 'law and order' hypocrisy doesn't it. Like the MSM 'taking down' Trump (on the Right) and Corbyn/Sanders ( on the Left) and Assange in the middle. Guilty of Truth telling and embarrassing the oligarchs. Sadly Arch, as entertaining as he is, attracts the biggest tools in his audience and indeed encourages it. A great pity. He is smart enough to know better. Want less refugees btw?? Simples support peace not eternal wars causing the refugee flow. Both 'SIDES' Stink and so do the 'Primaris Marines'.

@MachineMan-mj4gj

4 жыл бұрын

@@vladdrakul7851 Glad to see people still willfully misinterpreting the themes of the Dirty Harry movies, and remaining willfully ignorant of the sociopolitical realities of the times they were made.

@williambaldwin6779

4 жыл бұрын

Vlad Drakul you...you realize that this comment was directed at 40k. It wasn’t directed at any groups that exist in reality. It was directed at the Primaris Marines. You took a simple comment someone put out there and twisted it to throw politics into it, when politics was never even mentioned. Also need I point out the word “Purge” is somewhat of a meme in the 40k community.

@captainpuffinpuffinson4769

4 жыл бұрын

@@williambaldwin6779 can we purge this heretic already? I'm kind of insulted that blabber was my first comment...

@lachlanphilbey3759

4 жыл бұрын

Video uploaded 7 hours ago Comment uploaded 1 day ago Logic 40000

"The STD of Chaos." Slaanesh is happy

@smilingbandit6900

4 жыл бұрын

what happend to STIs?

@Reddotzebra

4 жыл бұрын

Nurgle is also happy

@Sera_Reading

4 жыл бұрын

@@smilingbandit6900 it's PC bullshit.

@jidk6565

4 жыл бұрын

Khorne is confused Tzeentch is laughing Khorne is angry

@Hubert_Cumberdale_

4 жыл бұрын

STD's are desease and therefore are more Nurgles domain.

Cawl designed armor with disposable, ablative plating. In 40k. Where manufacturing can barely keep up with the need for the non-disposable Mark VII. Where all supply deliveries have to go by Warp travel. Where all requisition orders have to be sent by astropath. Where Space Marines sometimes have to operate without any support for months or years at a time. Genius.

@peterkeyes1814

4 жыл бұрын

@Daniel Drew Seems by his post he already has.

@justinfrazier9555

4 жыл бұрын

@Daniel Drew I guess sarcasm misses the mark

@iwillbecomeimmortalordietr8506

4 жыл бұрын

Disposable armour to go with disposable and forgetable space marines.

@AAhmou

3 жыл бұрын

They'd barely survive a couple of battles in the 42nd millenium.

@mariuscatalin5982

3 жыл бұрын

buying from the nearest planet? with high clearence?

*Oh, ye Omnissiah! My progenoids are ruined! But what if... I were to acquire traitor geneseed and disguise it as Imperial Fists? Hohoho, delightfully devilish, Belisarius!* - Cawl shortly before creating the Sons of the Phoenix, circa M42

@angelangelis8362

4 жыл бұрын

Mikhail Bychkov Guilliman: Well Cawl, you are a strange one, but you sure do know how to make a good Marine.

@brambleknight7217

4 жыл бұрын

“Why is there chaos coming out of your neophytes, Cawl”

@andriuspakulis2948

4 жыл бұрын

Hey, Cawl, why Sons of Phoenics primaris ordered shipment of dragon sized dildos recently?

@elysiankentarchy1531

4 жыл бұрын

"Cawl, why do the Sons of the Phoenix have this white powdery substance on their faces? Also what happened to those civilians they were assigned to protect recently?

@Elenrai

4 жыл бұрын

​"Cawl, why are the Sons of the Phoenix dumping dead civilians into a massive pit? Surely servitors and menials can be sent to bury the dead" *24 hours later* "Cawl, why is the pit screaming Fulgrims name?"

Mc'Guyver is a perpetubal and became later known as Belisarius Cawl. That is why he was able to create the Primaris with a banana peel, chewing gum and a gem. Plot hole fixed 👍

"allied with the eldar, whilst in the company of the black templars" As an Eldar player, I have a number of problems with this statement

@BlackTemplar6th

4 жыл бұрын

As a black templar player i have even more problems with that statement.

@anangrymarine9174

4 жыл бұрын

AAAAAAAAHHHH!!!

@duffeknol

4 жыл бұрын

All of you should really read the Mechanicus novels by McNeil.

@requiemaeternam3406

3 жыл бұрын

Even a "codex" marine can't go toe to toe with a BT. To me looked so strange they didn't purge anything just for sake.

@involuntaryanalysis

3 жыл бұрын

I guess the TTS Vox Cast is canon, then. Big E, and Lord Adorable had a good talk with Chapter Master Helbrecht. By the end he attained something of Rogal Dorn's calm.

Silver lining: The mechanicus finally got a named character. And boy what a character he is. The space marines may have 40 000 points worth of named models, each with more ridiculous fluff than the last, but you could take them all, melt them down and cast them into an imperator titan made of pure bullshit and it wouldn't even reach up to Cawl's fucking knee. He is the avatar of plot contrivance, the alpha and omega of Mary Sue. Also, he has better stats than most tanks, which is rather nice. Everybody gangsta till some old guy skitters up to their battleline and starts hitting things at S10.

@AntonAdelson

4 жыл бұрын

"Imperator Titan made out of pure bullshit" 👌 poetry!

@scotcheggable

3 жыл бұрын

@Juni Post my preferred theory is that he is a being formed of pure chaos, and the avatar of Malice, sent by the fifth god to aide the emperium in destroying the other gods and the traitor legions once and for all. Because unwittingly, by fighting against chaos, the emperor was feeding the fifth god, and thus earned its blessing. Would explain all the bullshit at least.

@moderndavinci6599

Жыл бұрын

"Calling a call to Cawl."

By 40K standards, Hiroshima was indeed a mild case of renovation

@Waldherz

4 жыл бұрын

@@PersimmonHurmo That kinda sounds like 40K material.

@Pogo1991

4 жыл бұрын

Yes... only the soviets... en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Plowshare

@joethesheep4675

3 жыл бұрын

@@PersimmonHurmo bombing channels and the like was all the rage after WW2. We where insanely lucky that there was a huge earthquake near a testsite which could have beeb connected to the explosion so the guys responsible decided it was to big a risk to build that way. Otherwise engineers would have contaminated half the world before they realized the real issue here.

"We have fought the Long War against Chaos without them for ten thousand years. New genetics? New weapons? Spawned from the work of a Tech-Magos trying to imitate - no, worse - to improve upon the Emperor's own labours? Battle-brothers who do not even serve time in the Scout Company or the Devastators before taking their place in the line? I neither trust nor need such warriors in my ranks Pavras. Dorn's Fist, they aren't even proven in battle!" - Captain Dysorian, Imperial Fists 4th Company "A perversion of the Emperor's work. He may be a rotting corpse, but he created perfection in the Legiones Astartes. I cannot imagine for a moment that some arrogant Magos Biologis will have done anything but flaw that work beyond redemption." -D'Sakh of the Alpha Legion

@danishsyed1068

3 жыл бұрын

the first one disregarded the other get's ass kicked and barely wins his fight

@evanremillard5640

3 жыл бұрын

Damn, when a traitor legionnaire even thinks thre Primaris are bullshit you know you fucked up.

@Paerigos

3 жыл бұрын

@@evanremillard5640 Well - Emperor would be the first entity to admit that even he isnt perfect and his work is flawed. Like thunderwarriors werent spike of perfection and thats why they were killed off... and well - when that tech-magos has knowledge of Sedane...

@alyseleem2692

3 жыл бұрын

@@Paerigos Indeed. But he was the greatest human mind in history. That's not hyperbole,that's simply lore. Fact. He is well beyond 52k years old,studying hundreds if not thousands of subjects. You're telling me this guy did better? Who the #$$ is he? GOD?!

@elysiankentarchy1531

3 жыл бұрын

@@alyseleem2692 "Cawl's newest backstory: He is the Machine God." - GW in the future

Roboute: “I'm not sure I can trust my brothers with the ability to reform their legions." Dark Angels and Imperial Fists *whistle nervously* Space Wolves: “Screw that business you blonde twat."

"If only Sanguinius was here."-Guilliman von Lohengramm

"it would be like calling Hiroshima after Little boy a mild case of renovation" Arch 2019

@dominicomegon4714

4 жыл бұрын

Arch just want's it to be 7th edition until he croaks. Lol

@thespanishinquisition4078

4 жыл бұрын

@@dominicomegon4714 7th edition was shit, but since then we've only gone downhill, and at a cataclismically high speed to boot. So yeah, currently, 7th is the best we ever got by virtue of being the least smelly turd in the septic tank.

@SockPupet

4 жыл бұрын

@@dominicomegon4714 I want to go back to 2nd...

@sololobos6969

4 жыл бұрын

@El Duderino Nice B8 M8...

“Sanguinius, the only man Guilliman could have trusted with this burden...he too was gone” 😢 Right in my feels.

@misanthropicservitorofmars2116

Жыл бұрын

The only son Big E truly loved for he was perfect.

"Assholes in odd places..." So Erebus clinging like a leech to every other legion?

@NewGuy2534

4 жыл бұрын

More like he was talking out of his ass.

@nooneinparticular5256

4 жыл бұрын

Or just a euphamism for talking out one's ass.

@john-bt8dp

4 жыл бұрын

erebus did nothing wrong

@Penniwhistle

4 жыл бұрын

@@john-bt8dp Why can't I downvote you more than once?

@WamblingPlague5

4 жыл бұрын

@@john-bt8dp *Clears throat* FUCK EREBUS

Ah! The famed Primaris Space Marines also known as Ultra-Ultramarines, Space Space Marines, Primarines, NuMarines, Chadmarines, The Greater-est of them all, Adeptus Restartes, Gigglymarines, Super Space Marines, Biglymarines, Big League Marines, Space-marine Space-marine Space-Marines, 8thmarines, Bigmars, Spacesigmarines, Guillimarines, Special Snowflake Marines, Primarysues, Ultra-Ultrasmurfs, Skubmarines, and of course Marines II: Electric Boogaloo

@Arphalia

4 жыл бұрын

Ty for this, I got some new namesto call these fucks lol

@anangrymarine9174

4 жыл бұрын

I like Adeptus Restartes

@elysiankentarchy1531

4 жыл бұрын

I personally prefer Rowboat's nickname of "Cawl's Blasphemous Hordes"

@DaLkalts

4 жыл бұрын

You forgot Primarysues

@brigandboy1425

4 жыл бұрын

Adeptus Restartes broke me.

Games Workshop is just prepping everyone for a long term overhaul on their product for the mythical wider audience. They'll standardize the Imperial Guard and the Space Marines for ease of manufacture. No more unique looking units or at least fewer of them. Hell, they'll do this every single line. If the customers want unique units they'll do it themselves of course. There's also the kinder gentler children's 40k books. Teaming up with Marvel but ultimately, eventually with Disney. Because complex, flawed characters don't sell to little Timmy because his little mind can't handle it. As he is being conditioned and drugged by the education and entertainment systems to be a passive, expendable wage slave consumer of bland goods. It's about trying to make as much money from as wide an audience rather than crafting a science fiction fantasy universe with any care to established lore.

@elmerjfapp5730

4 жыл бұрын

someone goes on /biz huh

@woaddragon

4 жыл бұрын

Well I can wait to.see.what you.thinl of.Bandai chibi figures

@thomasblunt3404

4 жыл бұрын

so basically 40k is going the way of Star Wars.... bland dull and totally boring for those with no imagination.

@MyRickyjoe

4 жыл бұрын

Good thing I'm just here to listen to stories, you guys are so screwed.

@samuelrodriguez9801

4 жыл бұрын

We're in The End Game now!

Cawl sounds like an isekai light novel self insert character.

@skarjj1

3 жыл бұрын

i would not be surprised if he was

Dude imagine they make the Primaris resistant to the influence of Chaos thus invalidating the entire selection process of the Grey Knights *upside down happy face*

What I got from this video: "Emperor was a jobber." -Belisarius Cawl

Honestly half of the issue would be solved if the primaris program was a prototype idea the emperor had in the works when they tried the raptor program. Then a Cawl like figure can appear to use it and research it and make the primaris marines. He had to try and turn a prototype into a functional thing. Which while still being overly difficult, would make him seem less BS as the emperor would have done most of the leg work. *EDIT* ARCH SENPAI NOTICED ME!? NANI!?!!!!

@alganhar1

4 жыл бұрын

Would he have though? A prototype is all very well, but generally the prototype is a very different beast to the mass production model. Sometimes it is cruder, but other times it is actually a superior product. The T-34 is a good example of the latter by the way, the prototyp T-34's were superior in construction in every way to even early war production models, let alone late war production models where the idea of Quality control in the Soviet tank factories was along the lines of if it will last a month or two its good enough. Other good examples are the concept cars you see in car shows, such vehicles will never see production, they are just too *good* to enter production, much of the technology and concepts are too new and untested.... The point is, refining a prototype to the point it can be mass manufactured is often a larger undertaking than coming up with the prototype in the first place, and it is not always about refining the prototype to get it to work, sometimes you literally have to make a worse final product than the prototype due to technology or material constraints....

@Jackstalkerfear

4 жыл бұрын

@@alganhar1 I can believe prototype more over Cawl improving on the marines in such a short time.

@baleriontheblackdread6679

4 жыл бұрын

@@Jackstalkerfear "such a short time." 10.000 Years thats short for you?

@BardicGM

4 жыл бұрын

@@baleriontheblackdread6679 As mentioned in the video, the first founding of Primaris occurred in Millienia 31, so a thousand years with fewer resources and having to do it in secret.

@MrGrimsmith

4 жыл бұрын

@@alganhar1 I agree in part where mass production is concerned. However, once something has been conceived and created it's not actually that hard to refine it further if you have a certain mindset. Knowing that something *can* be done makes the following steps easier. Is it easy? No. Does it need a genius? No. Merely a particular way of thinking. Making it economical? That's a whole different kettle of fish...

To be fair to the Traitor Legions they worked pretty well under the command of the Emperor before their Primarchs were discovered.

@frankg2790

4 жыл бұрын

I can't deny that.

@alyseleem2692

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed 👍.

Good thing some of his brothers didn't drink the kool-aid... Dark Angels: "Oh, no, we're not a Legion. It's just that all of our somewhat oversized Chapters answer to a single command staff" Fists: "Oh no, we're not a Legion. We just have a council of successors, and a secret plan to reform a Legion if we feel like it"

@elysiankentarchy1531

4 жыл бұрын

Meanwhile the Space Wolves can't make successors (until Cawl magicked the Wulfen away that is) so they are explicitly exempt from it and the Salamanders didn't actually break up on the grounds that they didn't have enough Marines left to make successors so they technically aren't bound to it either. Actually, come to think of it, only 5 out of 9 of the Loyalist Legions actually followed the order to break up and reform themselves along Codex lines to the letter. And it turns into 4 out of 9 when you consider the fact that the Ultramarines themselves had an extra company that they didn't tell anyone about, the fact that honor companies exist period, all their 2nd Founding successors are on Macragge's Senate, and that the Ultramarines frequently act like their successors listen to them and obey like it is with the DA and their successors.

@autumnlotus6250

4 жыл бұрын

Black Templars: we dont have a legion! We have m UK multiple crusades, none of which are over 1000 marines, honest! No we dont have a dossier of these crusades. Why would we? :3

@wgreenewgreene1022

4 жыл бұрын

@@autumnlotus6250 now would you kindly follow me to the nearest air lock. I assure you the view is nice

@jagnestormskull3178

3 жыл бұрын

@@elysiankentarchy1531 Well, theoretically, the Space Wolves *can* make successors, they just don't want to because they hate the Codex Astartes. Theoretically, Wulfen wouldn't be a thing on other planets because there are no wolves on Fenris.

@elysiankentarchy1531

3 жыл бұрын

@@jagnestormskull3178 During the Second Founding the Space Wolves tried to make successors not from Fenris, the Wolf Brothers, and they all, to Leman Russ' horror, quickly degenerated into wulfen (he also gave them half of the Legion's armory). And that put an end to Russ' idea of the Sons of Russ, a lot of chapters created from his line to guard the Eye of Terror and ensure anyone trying to leave it would be absolutely murdered.

I love the idea of some of these guys showing up on Fenris claiming to be Space Wolves and the old wolf ordering them thrown off a cliff while he makes a very angry call to MaCragge.

Judging from this video I can imagine a scene similar to 'Revenge of the Sith' by the time the other loyalist Primarchs make their return 😂😂😂 Hell even the custodes... _"In the name of our __-Glorious Overlord-__ Father, the Emperor of Mankind... You're under arrest Guilliman"_ _"Are you treatening me Brother/Custodes?"_ _"The Imperium will judge you for this Heresy"_ _"I _*_am_*_ the Imperium"_

Honestly what got me into 40k was how grim dark and against the grain it was when compared to other sci-fi universes, where the good guys always win and have the moral high ground. Maybe one or two side characters die, but the hero’s still win. In 40k, you don’t know who will win, what the cost of winning will be, what happens after victory. Primaris kind of feel like someone in the modeling and lore department was a big fan of Halo and Starcraft and wanted to add that into 40k.

"This undoubtedly makes Guilliman a massive hypocrite and a liar" Ofc it does! He is know as the politician after all.

@frankg2790

4 жыл бұрын

I hated the Ultramarines before they brought back their Primarch.

30k : Praise the Emperor! 40k : Praise the God Emperor! 41k : What has he done for us lately?

Here we Cawl again

@dominicomegon4714

4 жыл бұрын

Didn't it take Cawl over 7 thousand years on top of what they already know to make the Primaris? Cawl only stood on the shoulder of the Emperor and did a fantastic job.

@Archon3960

4 жыл бұрын

_The Mechanicus Approuves !_

@hotsergiosinyourarea

4 жыл бұрын

Calw me crazy. But is think that you guys are pretty good with the puns thing

@smilingbandit6900

4 жыл бұрын

Cawl you i will^^

@alyseleem2692

3 жыл бұрын

@@dominicomegon4714 Simple. How does he get his resources? And where is the Administratum in this? And how does know how to get better Space Marines despite the only suggestion the Emperor ( a 52k year old barely human genius with precognition) is the Raptor project? How did he do it better? Who the #$$ is this guy?

Arch's Primaris rant. 55 minutes long. I'mma gonna need a bigger tub of popcorn for this.

Guys, guys, guys! I've got it! A guy who has seemingly infinite resources, achieves things in impossible timeframes and yet manages to keep everything secret? He's clearly Earth's Santa Claus!

@frankg2790

4 жыл бұрын

Wouldn't be surprised, considering how much of a Mary Sue he is.

@Venneroth

4 жыл бұрын

...Well that explains the red outfit.

@ReformedSooner24

3 жыл бұрын

The warp IS involved and time behaves strange there...hmm....

@eyez274

3 жыл бұрын

isn't that Santa Grimnar?

@misanthropicservitorofmars2116

Жыл бұрын

Why would a biological immortal turn to the omnissiah? Seems kinda redundant at that point.

"What chapter are you from brother?" "Sons of the Phonecia........ I mean phoenix. Proud sons of Rogal Dorn haha! "

*_The geneseed requirements alone would have made Cawl the biggest target in the Segmentum, if not the entire galaxy._*

@misanthropicservitorofmars2116

Жыл бұрын

Right? The forces of chaos just sort of let him build up millions of marines over 10,000 years, no problem? Not an alpha legion raid or some dumb warp portal opening up to steal some geneseed? Nothing?

I’m with Seth these aren’t blood angels they’re Ultramarines painted red

@mattaffenit9898

4 жыл бұрын

As a loyal son of Sanguinius, I agree with this. They are abominations that don't even deserve to wear the red of Baal.

@callisto1234

4 жыл бұрын

They've started showing signs of something similar to the red thirst though...

@mattaffenit9898

4 жыл бұрын

@@callisto1234 Barely even a trace of Sanguinius' blood has manifested itself. They remain abominations.

@phreakazoith2237

4 жыл бұрын

at least those repainted ultrasmurfs go faster

@mattaffenit9898

4 жыл бұрын

@@phreakazoith2237 So did the originals. In fact, I'd argue that the original Astartes were faster.

I was truly hoping that the Primaris marines would end up being no where near as "perfect" as they were first shown, maybe having some kind of expiration date where they'd start to get ill or frail.

@alyseleem2692

3 жыл бұрын

Agreed 👍. They need a restart.

@Godzillafan-tv1ks

Жыл бұрын

They still might. Remember, as of current timeline it’s been what? Barely half a century since the plague wars? Flaws often take multiple centuries to manifest. The red thirst often takes a while to appear. Oh and they can be corrupted.

@narusawa74

7 ай бұрын

Wait for order 66 and you'll see they're not perfect....Cawl having diddled with chaos can't flip his coat that easily without a speck of chaos in his work....Guilly Boy ( writers) was mad to use him for such job.

@JuniperArt98

7 ай бұрын

Absolutely no way, it is much too late. Primaris, Cawl, all of the recent lore has done far too much damage. @@narusawa74

i was honestly taken aback by how readily and unquestioningly the community accepted primaris marines. I guess "the armour looks cool!!!!" is enough for some people

@torbk

2 жыл бұрын

I haven't accepted them, not even now. I haven't bought a single model since before the entire heresy launched. As far as I am concerned the retcon version of the 13th Black Crusade is still the thing and the fall of Cadia never happened. Cawl is a figment of the demented mind and Primaris a mistake.

@moeleicester9179

2 жыл бұрын

I spat it out as if I was allergic to it, the very second I had heard about this reheated turd. For me, 40K ends at the end of M41 and GW can feck reet off

@GitGudFox

2 жыл бұрын

@@torbk I got out of the 40k hobby altogether once I understood what Primaris were, and I eventually used this video to get many, many of my friends out of 40k as well. The enemy is GW. The only way to fight GW is to stop being their customer. The Primaris and WH+ are simply the breaking point. Perhaps GW will be able to replace oldguard fans with bugman nufans in the same way that they are replacing the 1st born with Primaris. If that's the case, fine, so be it. My hands are clean of this heresy though, and I have saved many people along the way.

@demoulius1529

10 ай бұрын

@@torbk they are a joy to paint. But I noticed that the people who most readily accepted them are the kinds of players who have flavour of the month armies. Im generalizing ofcourse but thats what happened in my local game store.

@feorge33

6 ай бұрын

4 years on, still haven't accepted them.

I want this to be a thing, where Guilliman refers to himself in 3rd person when he monologues or thinks to himself

@comradeweismann6947

3 жыл бұрын

Once again I, Rowboat Girlyman has returned to the Imperium and I, Rowboat Girlyman, will save the Galaxy from all the chaos and suffering, because I, Rowboat Girlyman, am the master of macragge, primarch of the Ultramarines, Son of the Emperor of Mankind, Lord Commander of Imperium and no foul chaos spawn could ever match my legendary plot armour skills!

@warden-1894

3 жыл бұрын

@@comradeweismann6947 Ah. So THAT'S where Cato Sicarius got it from!

So in short... Guilliman had an idea, shat and Cawl cleaned up everything nice and tidy like a glorified toilet. Ha, just you wait Arch, next GW will be revealing that Cawl was a vat grown Sensei made to purpose by the Second Primarch, who is currently smoking weed in some secret hole in the South Pole of Terra as the Grand Master of the Inquisition!

@constrainedanacronysm1370

4 жыл бұрын

Well Cawl is basically a bio-monstrosity made up of dozens of souls. The weirdest thing is that Emps was somehow able to to "see" and communicate with Cawl before he even was even "created" by just coming into contact with 1 of the souls/minds that makes up Cawl. Mind you that the souls/minds that make up Cawl were only fused after the Heresy... which the Emps was supposedly not previously able to see past because of chaos. So there are some interesting implications there I guess.

@diegicast

4 жыл бұрын

I love tour plot twist

@darkinnovator2479

4 жыл бұрын

@@constrainedanacronysm1370 Maybe a bit of the Emperor's soul got in there too, it would have been a good angle to how and why he created the Primaris that he was essentially retracing the steps the Emperor had made anyway.

@darkinnovator2479

4 жыл бұрын

@@diegicast I absolutely love the concept of the Lost Primarchs, my long idea was that the Second was crafted (bit like the Lizardmen) to be a weapon against Chaos, and his flawed gene-seed was later refined into the Gray Knights Gene-seed.

@lamb_link

4 жыл бұрын

Dark Innovator Ah yes the long redacted 2nd primarch, leader of the great Legion Herb Smokers and second only to Angron in disappointing his father. I hear that he’s a professional snowboarder now. Good guy that Shaunius white.

They could have written the Primaris Marines as being a late experiment of the Emperor trying to improve on the Space Marines as he realized that they had severe flaws and could fall to chaos. Maybe he went about making blueprints or even having a few prototypes running around but then the Horus heresy happened and he had to seal up those plans and let's say in the event of his death he entrusted those plans with one of his loyal sons in this case Guilliman for him to implement in the future. So in that case when guilliman woke up with the help of cawl they started producing primaris Marines from that very moment and started to send them throughout the Galaxy. Not a perfect story but I think it's better than just saying oh Cawl is just super smart and he made better Space Marines and somehow they ended up all across the Galaxy

they simply could have used the raptor project as a back story: before their genome was corrupted by the Alpha legion they were SM but faster stronger, quicker to produce. So they could have retry a raptor project using the genetic material located in the labyrinth of the Emperor. but since they wouldn't have the guidance of the Emperor implanted in their memory like for Corax it would take far longer to achieve.

@BUSSTISEBOOST

4 жыл бұрын

Also too the Gene seed was the same in every Astartes. The only difference being that the new Gene seed increased the rate of which the applicant grew and with minor Strength increase and reflexes. Alpha Legion better be unlimited at this point and should get into contact with the Imperium soon for a good old fashion mind fuckery.

What no one knew, is the Alpha Legion watched the whole process secretly and actually made their own millions of chaos super smurfs so that they could counter the good super smurfs. On a side note, wouldn't improving upon the Emperor's work be considered a Heresy in and of itself? I mean the space wolves should be hunting down and killing every one of the super smurfs.

@MrFallenone

4 жыл бұрын

You changed a light bulb 0.0001 second faster than it took the Emperor. HERETIC ! You forget that Space Marines do not worship the Emperor as a God. Because they know he hates that shit.

@RedDeadUndead1

4 жыл бұрын

@@MrFallenone Note: not ALL Space Marines worship the Emperor as a god the prime example are the religious zealots of the Black Templars.

@ZenStrive52

4 жыл бұрын

Alpha Legion are loyalist

@xo-1320

4 жыл бұрын

Depends. Some of the alpha legion are just Renegades, some are chaos worshippers and others are loyal to the Emperor and not the imperium.

@elysiankentarchy1531

4 жыл бұрын

@@RedDeadUndead1 The Black Templars' High Chaplain, Grimaldus, point blank said that his chapter does not worship the Emperor as a god in Blood and Fire.

I have loved Warhammer and 40k for decades. But this recent retcon, re-retcon and just total shit writing has really put me off. Not mention a tiny piece of plastic the costs the same as a decent meal.

Just imagine, for a second Belesarius Cawl would have fallen to chaos. Why exactly did Guilliman split up the legions, again?

Good Lord Cawl is the biggest Mary Sue I have heard of in quite some time.

New tech, new doctrines, progress?Did GW forget they are making Warhammer 40k and not Star Trek fanfic?

@blindlobster

4 жыл бұрын

A "new" crew of people writing the fluff. The crew were doing such a bad job that eventually the writers refused to put their own names in their codexes, (or army books)

@DarkCT

4 жыл бұрын

they are trying to throw a sheet of likely how Cawl and Gulliman tries to see thigns different from the imperium we are use to. and they are right they would.. but one characters a complete asspull here.

@s0515033

4 жыл бұрын

But it totally fits with the personality and beliefs of Guilliman, who comes from a different era. I like where the story is going, atm. The same thing gets boring after a while with complete stagnation and nothing changing in the universe.

@elysiankentarchy1531

4 жыл бұрын

@@blindlobster I thought the reason why the writers names were no longer put on the Codexes was because of the massive backlash towards almost everything Matt Ward wrote.

@blindlobster

4 жыл бұрын

@@elysiankentarchy1531 Although Matt Ward was one of the leaders of the new crew, there were other members who didn't want to become Matt Ward 2.0. It was unfortunate that people were so hard on Matt Ward, but the distaste (not the disrespect) was warranted. People tend to forget that Matt Ward was writing in the earlier Codexes and Army books long before he became "the boss" of it. He previously wrote in "Additional Material" and there were no complains then. Let's be frank, Matt Ward can do a good job, but mainly when he is supervised.

I like to think that Cawl didn’t just come up with the Primaris marines out of nowhere but instead found a pet project of the emperors

Cawl being outwardly rigid in following the rules is exactly what he would do if he was bending then behind the scenes.

This is what you get when you dont Progress from Lore and Logic Standpoint but from a Pure marketing Standpoint. Get us something diffrent we can sell, then create a reason we can blend out the old stuff so everyone have to buy the new stuff at some Point. And we need that now to get my bonus, so, come up with an explanation quickly. Taddaaaa, Primaris marines.

The only good thing is that there using traitor geneseed.

@munker2477

4 жыл бұрын

They´re*

@nialpollitt3410

4 жыл бұрын

They'r'rum'bumhole*

@robertnelson9599

4 жыл бұрын

I like that it is implied but never proven at all.

@Lorian667

4 жыл бұрын

@@robertnelson9599 Orimaris Chapter "Children of the Phoenix" colored in Purple, white and gold.. coincidence? I think not. Source: Vigilus book.

@robertnelson9599

4 жыл бұрын

@@Lorian667 Again, implied. There are chapters whose name has no correlation to their parent chapter.

An hour of Arch talking, exactly what I need as a background for perfecting my art.

@robertnelson9599

4 жыл бұрын

What kind of art?

@catgang6936

4 жыл бұрын

Work on your art

@MizantropMan

4 жыл бұрын

@@robertnelson9599 Digital design and painting ork boyz. One is for business, one is for fun.

Alternate Title: When Marty Stue got outstued by Marty Stue Jr.

@Archon3960

4 жыл бұрын

THAT WAS MATT WARD, GODSDAMMIT !!

So papa smurf: during the Horus Heresy - established the Imperium secundus while Terra was still around - diverted troop movements to shore up said Imperium secundus instead of Terra after the Heresy - established for himself an office that was the imperator in everything but name - used political sway(of his new office) to force his brothers to split up the legions arguing this would be too much power for one person to hold - established a fighting force arguably stronger than even the legions were, only he knew about (funneling away vast amounts of imperial resources to do so) ein Schelm wer da böses denkt

The primaris marines lore summed up in 3 words. "But hey... details"

primaris armor looks like it was made by tau's. I think Cawl's got some explaining to do.

@peterkeyes1814

4 жыл бұрын

They do have the stink of Xenos tech about them.

@Barabel22

4 жыл бұрын

Frankly with the way the galaxy is going.....who gives a shit if it’s xeno tech. The IoM needs to get up off its high horse and see that they’re fucked unless compromise is made.

@constrainedanacronysm1370

4 жыл бұрын

Cawl has been suspected of using Necron and Tau tech to improve the Imperium's arsenal Granted there are alreast a few Forgeworlds that do the same thing as Cawl and are in better standing then him politically. *Cough Stygies VIII* *Cough Eldar Tech.*

@Delta-es1lg

4 жыл бұрын

Does it really look like Tau? It looks like a normal progression of Space Marine armor to me.

@couldnotfindcoolname

4 жыл бұрын

seems some people need to be visited by their friendly neighborhood inquisitor..

Primaris Marines: good concept, bad execution. All the hallmarks of GW's handiwork

Belisarius Cawl is my favorite 40k character. Also, it wasn’t literally just Cawl by himself, it was Cawl’s ever growing faction of tech priests that are tired of stagnation and such.

@MrFallenone

4 жыл бұрын

10 000 years is a long time of relying on that one old coffee machine... that you have to pray to before it even starts :D

@robertnelson9599

4 жыл бұрын

True, Cawl was never alone, but he had to be careful as getting found out would have lead to his immediate execution.

@sirpieman300

4 жыл бұрын

He also had the massive fuck of space ship/ laboratory! And just because it was a secret mission doesn't mean he didn't also have the ability to take/ request anything he needs from the imperium. He just shows them his special badge, papers, seal or heck special all-access no question asked without a blaming god-emperor Imperial approved credit card!

@finlayames6216

4 жыл бұрын

sirpieman300 I feel like the inquisition would get a tad curious about the sheer amount of stuff he’d be asking for, for so long and with no public results. Almost like he was building a secret army to overthrow, I mean save, the imperium. We all know how they do enjoy finding traitors and heretics even when there aren’t any

@ZenStrive52

4 жыл бұрын

Also plenty of help from Alpha Legion

GW pulled them out of their magic bag that goes against everything the imperium stands for xD Innovation, new doctrines, etc etc etc

@robertnelson9599

4 жыл бұрын

Religion is full of hypocrisy, and the Imperium of 40K is a religious state... Edit: This is an excuse for in-universe, GW could have done a better job with the Primaris Marines.

@Turamwdd

4 жыл бұрын

I don't necessarily see anything wrong with changes happening. It is interesting to finally see them advance 40k lore.

@imerror6224

4 жыл бұрын

Isn't there a race of blue communists that really like innovation and progress? Why don't they do something with them?

@wookiewithacookie6905

4 жыл бұрын

@@Turamwdd I have nothing against the idea of Primaris (even if the in lore reason is a bit shitty) but I'm not a fan of the tact-icool look. Space marines have always been warrior monks/Knights in space and I love that look of them.

@s0515033

4 жыл бұрын

Well, Guilliman is back and he's a relic from a time of reason, progress. So it makes sense he doesn't really give a shit. He's openly stated in the novels that he doesn't like the way the Imperium is and he's not afraid to shake stuff up a bit. I kinda like the change in direction and I hope we see some story progression on it.

13:00 there were two very easy ways to fix this. 1) have Cawl just be a random Tech Magos who discovered a Raptor machine in the depths of Mars. During the Martian civil war, and have Guiliman meet with him whilst his brothers went on the scouring. Or 2) literally just make it MK9 power armor, invented by an up an coming Robodude named Cawl.

"you were right daddy blue, the galaxy's been split in bloody two!"

@alyseleem2692

3 жыл бұрын

Why am I singing this?

"...there isn't exactly 'Fist' in that Marine" Well if he's a son of Fulgrim there is..

@ODDnanref

4 жыл бұрын

I think there is Gist there, just not the one you think and not where you think it should be.

Primaris is an ass pull. But then again, they might be ramping up to something really, really big.

@xiriusthesoulwatcher3955

4 жыл бұрын

It being "big" doesnt mean its good. And being precluded by something bad is just... A bad sign

@dominicomegon4714

4 жыл бұрын

@@xiriusthesoulwatcher3955 "big" doesn't mean "bad" either. I think you underestimate what a Mechanicum Genius can do with over 10k+ years of experimenting and planning with The Imperium's Lord Commader's blessing with the High Lords of Terra in on it.

@dominicomegon4714

4 жыл бұрын

@@xiriusthesoulwatcher3955 archwarhammer is being a bit click bait'ish these days.

@James-sk4db

4 жыл бұрын

Unironically using newfag outside of the chans? someone’s edgy

@xiriusthesoulwatcher3955

4 жыл бұрын

@@James-sk4db ah yes, lets pile on the terms instead of what is actually being said. That will leave the impression that you're here to argue and not just to stir shit up

I realized the other day when looking at the Primaris super heavy tank that they honestly kind of look star crafty.

Belisarius Cawl was not alone though, he had the "cawl inferior", that gestalt of hundreds of brains working as one. In dark imperium he states that he used that in conjunction to his own mind to have the brain power to do complete the primaris project, now how was he even able to do the new armor and primaris improvements in this short amount of time ( you said 800 years). Well it might not be as hard as you might think, though that isn't to say that it was a damn monumental undertaking. Lets start with the primaris biology. Cawl did not start from scratch that's for damn sure, he already had the template of the regular space marines and whatever information was left on the raptors, more importantly, he had the backing and seal from a fucking primarch, a being directly below in authority to the Emperor of mankind. That would open pretty much any door for him to plunder and analyse archaic data on the creation of the space marines, he, much like fabius bile had to first understand the gene-seed before making any modifications to it. The advantage Cawl has over Fabius bile is that he can ( thanks to the cawl inferior) actually undertake many complex projects at once, this combined with the knowledge he already had would make it feasible for him to create the primaris in that time span. The armor is simpler by far, nowadays making good armor is made by statistics and ballistic tests, example: 15% of deaths are are due to bullet penetration in the area where the gorget is, therefore this area needs to be reinforced. The design of an armor is modified to reduce the risk of injury of its wearer by modifying parts where other people had died, this is much easier to do than geneseed study. Just number crunching, statistics and trial and error, this might also explain the modification to the vox grill part, a structural weakness in the overall protection of the helmet. Furthermore, Cawl was alive during the great crusade, a period of time when power armors were actually being modified frequently, so him knowing how to actually properly modify a suit of power armor isn't even a surprise. The materiel question isn't that complex either, again explained by his backing, which is to say Guilliman. Show a primarchs seal to a mining world and tell them that you need say a small 5% of their yield, an amount that wouldn't be outrageous. Do the same thing in 6 or 7 other worlds and you've got the amount you need for your experiments. Building isn't a problem either since servitors exist, also criminals and such can also be taken as workers, then when the work is complete, kill them all and throw them into the sun, there, problem solved, nothing of worth was lost. Using a mechanized assembly line and his mechanicum allies to manufacture his new patterns of armor and weapons isn't unfeasible either i think. This brings us to another point, Cawl isn't stricly by himself in all this, he has allies in the mechanicum, according to Dark imperium, his faction are a group of adepts and others that also believe in progress, the original intent of the emperor, they want to overturn this present regime of stagnation just like cawl. So the man isn't entirely without support, it seems there's enough of them to start a civil war too (which Guilliman absolutely wants to avoid). About their acceptance and how it actually worked out...or not. The blood angels accepted them i think mostly because of their current circumstance of being mostly nom'ed up by the nids and because of Chapter Master Dante being a fairly damn reasonable guy for a space marine. Other chapters accepted for one reason alone, shock value. A primarch, a legendary being from the history of the imperium came out drove away the heretic, the alien and the witch and says that he wants to save the imperium, even space marines aren't immune to that effect. Also, being the regent of terra helps, as he basically forced every chapter to accept this or they would be considered rebels, considering all the firepower guilliman has at his disposal, the old maxim " It's better to be polite and have a gun then to just be polite" applies shockingly well here. Since there was no other primarchs to oppose him, most chapters fell in line but they weren't all happy about it. The Space wolves were pretty weary of the primaris until they gave them trials that proved their worth, the Dark angels simply paid "lip service" to Guilliman and keeps their primaris units well separated from their regular forces and obviously don't share their secrets. Finally, about the flaws. Corbulo the apothecary of the Blood angels noticed some primaris battle brothers went absolutely apeshit during a fight against the alpha legion, inflicting such gruesome violence upon the traitors that you might think they were flesh-tearers... Here's my theory. The flaw have yet to manifest, Cawl had access to the purest possible geneseed, the oldest geneseed in fact, In the "Fear to tread" book, Sanguinius explains that the flaw (red thirst) was actually pretty rare at first, only a small number in a few hundred years, but that he feared that eventually it would affect more and more of his sons, furthermore, we learn in "Dante" that the red thirst is sympathetic, when one blood angel feels it, others start feeling it too. The blood angels primaris HAD NO CONTACT WITH ANY CHAPTER OF THE BLOOD UNTIL THEY MET WITH THE BLOOD ANGELS ON BAAL, since every chapter of the blood were currently fighting tyranids, which means that, considering the information we possess about the red thirst, it makes since for them to not have the red thirst, or at least THINK that they don't have it. The absence of "The black rage" on the other hand can be explained again by the geneseed used, the purest geneseed that was kept in stasis and probably hidden away, the owners of said geneseed weren't present or even alive when Sanguinius died, so its possible that the black rage is absent from the primaris entirely but it's too early to say.

@finlayames6216

4 жыл бұрын

Tertium I just can’t believe the emperor dam inquisition never noticed that all this material was disappearing with no visible results and started poking around. Cawl may have had permission from a primarch but they have the emperors so would have been able to call rank and if cawl didn’t show them then he’d be branded a traitor. Also if he had the backing of even a small group of people on mars I’m sure either the mechanicum or inquisition would keep an eye of them to make sure they weren’t heretics, tech ones or more traditional

@callisto1234

4 жыл бұрын

@@finlayames6216 Oh yes, sorry, i totally forgot to address this in my original comment. How did belisarius Cawl Kept all of this shit hidden?! Well that's hard and easy at the same time. It's hard because the inquisition and mechanicum are quite nosy little fuckers now aren't they? they gotta know everything and investigate everyone, so how does our resident revolutionary deal with this? Here comes the easy part, the imperium is a big place, and i mean a REALLY big place. its easy to dismiss the sheer size of it since conflicts are usually limited to a planet or a system, but space is fucking immense and the inquisition isnt infallible nor have they eyes behind their backs. hiding something from them is hard, but not impossible... Lemme tell you, Belisarius is very and i mean VERY paranoid. I don't have an exerpt ( you can probably find it in the r/40kLore subreddit), but in Dark imperium, just to speak to The Cawl inferior, Guilliman had to go through a plethora of security measures, most of which he did not know how to pass if he were to try and break in. Now this part is just my speculation but i believe that he used his status as being a member of the mechanicum as a kind of loophole to investigation, even the inquisition has a hard time getting anything from those guys, so him just saying "mechanicum business" might have been enough for the more casul inquisitors. For the more insistent ones, well... he seems to like mind wipes and isn't beyond bloodying his hands to keep a secret, inquisitors die all the time and sometimes they're never found, he or an ally could just tell the inquisition "hey we found this bloke dead near our spot, he seemed to have been attacked by a xenos force, we tried to help but we were too late" then point them in the direction of the supposed xenos...problem solved, its also probable that some "accidents" might have happened to inquisitors wanting to visit his facilities, and over time, the inquisition took the hint to not fuck around with this guy, that's what happened to the dark angels, and the blood angels have kept their taint hidden from even the inquisiton for 10k years. Never underestimate the power of lies my friends. Inquisitor: "sir why is your facility emanating massive amounts of energy?" Cawl: " we're testing a prototype Nova cannon, now fuck off unless you want a close look at the barrel of the cannon" .

@vladdrugal6580

4 жыл бұрын

@@callisto1234 The inquistion basically has no authority over the Mechanicus due to the fact that the Mechanicus basically self regulates itself. From my understanding the Inquistion will only go so far as to say to the local Archmagos " Hey... we think he have this intelligence about this asshole doing something wrong.... you waste your resources on figuring that out while we go and deal with something else " before flying off in this big fuck off ships to go murder a mutant child or something.

@TheEldritchGod

4 жыл бұрын

@@callisto1234 Well thought out. My only objection is, Stop Writing for the Author. That's his job and he's not doing it well.

@callisto1234

4 жыл бұрын

@@TheEldritchGod These are just logical conclusions that I came to after reading some books and dabbling in the 40KLore subreddit, The author might decide to just say "warp fuckery" and solve the problem like that >.< . I hate warp fuckery....

I feel like GW have written themselves into a corner with the new space marines. They should have been just proper scale space marine models instead of brand new super super marines. Hopefully they'll do a bit of rethinking/retcon.

@kyle857

3 жыл бұрын

This!

After reading the book I felt like Cawl is the Rick Sanchez of 40k. And I was strangely ok with that lol.

@brightblue6184

4 жыл бұрын

"I'm pickle-Cawl!"

@Julez60

4 жыл бұрын

@@lamb_link LMAOO!!!

@lordfrostwind3151

4 жыл бұрын

I think Fabius Bile will always be the Rick Sanchez of 40K, but Cawl is close. Those two would be good friends, they should swap notes and experiment victims sometime

@barrybend7189

4 жыл бұрын

@@lordfrostwind3151 who said Bile is a secret loyalist.

@robertnelson9599

4 жыл бұрын

@@lordfrostwind3151 Bile seems like the kind of guy who would invade Cawl's laboratory and kidnap him just have a nice chat. Then torture him for the secrets of how to make Primaris Marines.

I'm still waiting for a primaris centurion. "You've heard of space marines inside space marines. Now, from the same people who penned such masterpieces such as The Gathering Storm: Space Marines inside Space Marines inside Space Marines!" Or alternatively "Oooops! All Space Marines!".

The bones that dance. The spirit that wails. The mind that lingers. Gather them my children and join me in the rite of reawakening. Raise the Arches of lore in this Necromancy ritual my children.

But to be fair. Cawl didn’t create the Marines “better”. He just improved on an existing design. The emperor discovered “fire”, Cawl used this knowledge and built a lighter.

@Lakefront_Khan

4 жыл бұрын

And to be fair the EMPEROR stopped working on the Space Marines, if he would've keep working on them then the woukd still be better then the Primaris.

@robertnelson9599

4 жыл бұрын

Yes, the Emperor never intended for the Imperium to be controlled by supersoldiers. The Primarchs were an exception, which is why the Emperor put so much effort into making them.

@Lakefront_Khan

4 жыл бұрын

@@robertnelson9599 EXACTLY, so Cawl didn't do better them EMPEROR could do, he did what the EMPEROR didn't do.

@jgw9990

4 жыл бұрын

@@Lakefront_Khan except that primarchs like Magnus spent centuries looking for solutions to the flaws in the geneseed. Then cawl strolls in and fixed everything.

@MrFishman55

4 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Simply improving slightly on the design of the marines isn't as massive a universe break as I believe Arch says it is. Besides, while the Emperor was designing the Marines, he was simultaneously trying to piece together all of mankind into a single ideological political body, WHILE ALSO BEING A PSYKER AND DEALING WITH THE ISSUES FROM THAT. Cawl's only got that one track to chug down - he's not multitasking on NEARLY the level that the emperor was. Giving him 10,000 years, that more narrow mission, and some believable amount of brains, I can totally believe that the primaris marines would result.

The Emperor started from nothing, that's why it took him so long. Only when he conquered the gene-cults on the moon was he able to speed up his work. The Astartes were not the pinnacle of his work, they were mass products. So, it's not that surprising to me, that Cawl was able to improve on them. It didn't take Corax long to achieve that and Fabius Bile had also been experimenting successfully on his own (depending on the point of view). A proper mechanicus adept can certainly achieve something within 800 years, that's not hard to believe. The sheer numbers may be a different point, but surely Guilliman must have provided Cawl with resources.

@youtubevoice1050

4 жыл бұрын

@Joseph Ellis. Yeah, his logic chip seems to turn off whenever the word primaris is mentioned, lol.

@constrainedanacronysm1370

4 жыл бұрын

Also in the "Great Work" Cawl book its heavily implied he inherited a bunch of resources from the scientists who created the Space Marines along with Emps. Even before he met Gulliman.

@youtubevoice1050

4 жыл бұрын

@Constrained Anacronism. Good point. That increases the likelihood of success tenfold.

I still think they should be thunder warriors, as in crawl found Big E's TW notes, and just pulled everything he said out of his mechanical ass

@BigBroTejano

4 жыл бұрын

Aren't the Thunder-Warriors actually more powerful soldiers than the modern Space Marines?... there just also less stable... hence why the Emperor tuned down the Space Marines in order to try and fix the stability problem of their Thunder-Warrior forefathers.

@MindlessWarlok

4 жыл бұрын

@@BigBroTejano Yes, it'd make perfect sense if cawl just stumbled into it renamed it and hoped to the emperor that they dont go crazy.

@theenchantedstorm1878

4 жыл бұрын

That would be interesting, actually.... Bigger, yet short lived space marines that can go crazy?

@adamduffield7782

4 жыл бұрын

@@lostalone9320 so thunder warriors are short lived compared to astartes, that you can just hurl at the enemy as cannon fodder as astartes are too valuable to throw into suicide type situations ?? Arent you just describing the imperial guard ????

@fernandoflores2275

3 жыл бұрын

@@lostalone9320 astartes are literally just toned down and more stable thunder warriors thus allowing for COMPARATIVELY mass production.

"Attached a couple of jumper cables to Big G's nipples." Is easly one of the top 5 best lines I've heard in my life. That image will now be forever burned into my memory when thinking about that mess. Gj Arch, you just made the GS 10 times better.x)

I'm into 40k since 8th edition, but here are GW need to do when they introducing primaris marines : - Forshadowing primaris marines since 7th edition - Cawl as mysterious tech priest without background that developing primaris marines on Emperor's order - Instead Guilliman resurrection, just using great rift as the event that force Cawl to release Primaris Marines - Guilliman forced to adopt Primaris marines under Emperor's order - Primaris marines is its own chapter instead reinforcing old space marines, - Primaris marines face scrunity from *ALL* firstborn space marines especially those with traitor geneseed - Primaris marines with traitor geneseed is allowed but they must do endless redemption crusade in isolated dark imperium - Guilliman returns is triggered by destruction of Ultramar Realm and the Ultramarines, and seeing primaris marines as replacement that he don't want. -... Please add more

@OurLadyOfPunkz

4 жыл бұрын

I'd say that the Inquisition would have something to say about that.

@lordfrostwind3151

4 жыл бұрын

I actually think it would be better if the Primaris were developed by Fabius Bile and were stolen or possibly the Imperium bartered with him in a desperate situation like during the Tyranid Invasions for new, rapidly built space marines to replace their horrific losses. Once the crisis was over Cawl was placed in charge of monitoring and keeping them ready for battle, but also watching for mutations or corruption. Cawl, so inspired by Bile's work and how effective they were leaves the dogma of the Mechanicus and becomes in essence a loyalist heretek. Guilliman upon taking power finds out about the Primaris and almost orders then destroyed as abominations, but realizing that they can't afford to not use the millions of ready and armed space marines reluctantly orders them woken up.

I have to admit, they've grown on me over time...

@randomcenturion7264

4 жыл бұрын

Same. I've grown particularly fond of the Agressors and Reivers. Plenty of shooty and stabby.

@Khobotov

4 жыл бұрын

Like cancer

@jonniezodiac

4 жыл бұрын

@@randomcenturion7264 aggressors is okay, plus the burny burny version is quite fun

@honestkyn718

4 жыл бұрын

@@randomcenturion7264 I enjoy reviers

@lamb_link

4 жыл бұрын

I mean same but... Come on my guy there has to be some chaos fuckery going on here. One of them is legitimately called “sons of the Phoenix” they practically have emperors children written on their asses! That’s not safe.

I ignore the existence of the primaris in the universe. Even my RPG sessions I play I dont even mention them

@elysiankentarchy1531

4 жыл бұрын

Sounds like a wise policy.

@fernandoflores2275

3 жыл бұрын

I do this but also with other overpoered factions like custodes, grey knights, and the deathwatch. They just don't make any sense from a narrative standpoint to me. Except maybe deathwatch, but I just don't like them.

@tbone9474

3 жыл бұрын

@@fernandoflores2275 I give deathwatch a free pass as I like the concept but yeah the Grey knights are Gary stues for no reason

@fernandoflores2275

3 жыл бұрын

@@tbone9474 why the fuck did I just notice that your T-bone from swat kats? I fucking loved swat kats. I just started rewatching it on prime today. And yet I didn't notice your name or pfp? I'm so dumb.

Honestly, so many Chapters are just going along with it or to STFU. I just want one loyalist Primarch to go “GUILLIMAN DID WHAT?!?!”

@skothopper6729

4 жыл бұрын

That would probably be Ross

@NewGuy2534

4 жыл бұрын

Russ or the Lion whenever he gets out of his room. Vulkan I can see being wary but welcoming. Corax would be grateful. Khan would put them through hell. And Dorn … yeah it’s probably he’s out of commission.

So, what I'm getting from this is that Cawl has some Stark DNA in him

I have waited for so long, even though I admit wanted you to rant like when you ranted about Endtimes and Age of Sigmar

Just finished the book. My reaction: You're doing what in the Pharos!? WTF Cawl!!

I could be happy with cawl if he's a kind of living saint. Or a puppet controlled by the golden throne.

@Pubturtle

4 жыл бұрын

Raygun9000 I’ve thought that. Maybe the emperor has possessed or is in some way guiding him in order to correct the mistakes of the past.

@revcrussell

4 жыл бұрын

Unless the emperor was guiding Cawl, everything he did was heresy.

Alternative backstory, Cawl was a tech priest born around the time of the krieg civil war inspired by the creation of the horses of the death rider mounts. He also began experimenting with Eldar technology, before being kicked out and being taken in by a craftworld who’s farseers saw value in his continued existence. While on the craftworlds and accompanied by a handful of renegade marines from the black templars, he experimented on using stimulants and additional growth hormones to make marines bigger and better. He used existing technology to equip these marines along the philosophy of “make a bold gun, but bigger for these guys”, and the farseers made sure he was in place to resurrect a primarch, which he was in the perfect position to do as a result of hundreds of years of what would technically be tech heresy. Eldar striking scorpions snuck him into the chambers as Guiliman’s life support failed, and fought to give him the time to do what was needed. As a reward for saving his life, the ultramarines primarch allowed the tech priest to build a small number of primaris marines, to test their purity, and when purity could be confirmed then the primaris marine creation process were spread across to other chapters (some of which understandably didn’t trust the new marine models). But this would be if gw had competent writers, also my ideas at rewriting the backstory without too many changes to many details.

I can imagine the whole 'Primaris Marines taking over the Astartes' thing leading up to some sort of civil war within the Imperium, where the OG marines rebel against the Primaris. We've even got a champion, of sorts, with the Flesh Tearers chapter master Gabriel Seth, who REALLY hates the primaris marines and likens the blood angel primaris to 'Ultramarines in red armour'. I understand that some people would be upset by the idea of the OG marines getting killed off, but I think that would be a very ballsy move for GW to make, and it would allow the OG marines to go out in one last blaze of glory rather than getting slooowly erased over time until there's none left. Just a thought.

@redtormaximo5530

4 жыл бұрын

Thunder Warriors 2.0

@KC-kl6qc

4 жыл бұрын

@@redtormaximo5530 In a way, yeah.

@constrainedanacronysm1370

4 жыл бұрын

I think the reactions of the different chapters to the Primaris has been the most interesting thing to watch. The OG Scythes of the Emperor embracing the Primaris because the Genestealers and Tyranids doomed their genetic line. Then going out in a blaze of glory in knowledge someone cares enough to take up their legacy. The Nova Marines struggling to explain their traditions and empathize with the Primaris Marines that joined them. As well as the Primaris who are immensely disappointed they don't get to join the founding chapters that they grew up idolizing and instead have to settle for new chapters or serving under successors. There us too little being written about negative culture clashes though like Arch mentioned. Hopefully more authors address the many Gabriel Seth types that should be out there being grumpy about this. It doesn't have to cause civil wars, maybe just the OG marines growing to respect them or something.

@Gozokukolat

4 жыл бұрын

Well I stopped buying GW models back when 5th was still in full swing. So I guess I'll just stop playing 40k all together if they delete REAL Space Marines.

@amonkeigh4970

4 жыл бұрын

@@redtormaximo5530 ehhh except the OG marines arnt being rounded up and culled en mass, heck they arnt even being given all the shit suicide jobs, and apart from the fresh primaris skipping the scouts and joining straight into active squads they are not getting preferential treatment in the chapters in which they join, the old command structure stays in place and they are "brothers" like any other. The OG marines have had thier service and sacrifice to the imperium honoured, they havnt been cast aside like trash.

There will come a time where you think you have betrayed me, but you will have not. -Emps to Cawl "The Greatwork" The Greatwork makes Cawl a much better character, but it does have some weird parts to it.

Belisarius Cawl: UNDER BUDGET and AHEAD OF SCHEDULE

Well, maybe Cawl is the real person behind the Alpha Legion? Like all of these plans inside plans, mindblowing contigencies and hiding everything in plain sight... And the Alpha Legion already has some experience with experimental marine-making technology (the Raven Guard's Raptors).

@osvaldojaviergalleguillosh8402

11 ай бұрын

All primaris making an star wars Order meme would be actually super funny, like a moment in wich an inquisitor discovers something occult and Bam! An entire new enemy appears

"Well Hell, It's About Damn Time."

The gathering storm is the reason why I run Dark heresy before it ever happened.

LuLz, I could have sworn that said *"The good, The bad, and the Carl!"* - and being 40k lore a murderous psychopath wouldn't be inordinate so a Llamas with hats reference title didn't even seem out of place. XD

The primairis are just like the clones in starwars. Just think about it.

@bobmilaplace3816

4 жыл бұрын

But the Clones were LOYAL to the Emperor not their Psyker Generals and purged them during the Jedi Heresy.

@Czar_B

4 жыл бұрын

@@bobmilaplace3816 I mean that a gigantic army with all support items could be created without the knowlage of anybody importent. Praise the emperor ofcourse too

@Czar_B

4 жыл бұрын

Well thet didnt start as complete armies with space ships, tanks, etc. And the emperor was working on them useing all his resourses. Its a suprise for the enemy not the emperor. The clones where a suprise for everybody and had all ships etc ready. Nobody noticed the resourse usage and that is the same for the primairis.

@MC-pt8kv

4 жыл бұрын

@Schandoro07 I think the point is more that thr audience didn't have any idea. They serve the same purpose and were just dumped on us the same way the clone wars were.

@MC-pt8kv

4 жыл бұрын

@Schandoro07 I don't think it's always as hamfisted and on the same scale though. Like they literally ripped off the clone army and gave us middle marines. I actually like Primaris but their utterly ridiculous entry into the world was just so poorly done it's a shame. There are so many ways they could have done it without resorting to secret clone army.

Dude your vastly underestimating the golden skeleton. Thunder warriors, and astarties were EASY for him, the castodies were the ones that the emporer was proud of, the ones that he kept by his side to remind everyone just how much of a difference in power he wielded. Cawl couldnt even come close to doing better than the emporer from scratch, let alone create a primarch, (not a clone, thats cheating). And lets be honest, he did cheat, he had sooo much help in the way of not starting from scratch, he likely stole 85% of his primaris process from the remains of old gene seed, and on top of that having ANY anount of the emporers research notes is obviously going to speed along the process. In my opinion until cawl can create soldiers like the castodies, your claims of him outdoing the emporer fall quite flat sir.

@Louse1021

4 жыл бұрын

I think Cawl is dope, hes a genius that body hops his way through time and what he was able to do with improving upon the emporer' design slightly is a feat to be reckoned. I just think that he wouldn't have been able to do what he did if the emporer hadn't layd the ground work. And the Emporer has proven that he could do much better (Primarch').

@josephellis8501

4 жыл бұрын

@Daniel Drew He stole knowledge to make the primarchs, not the marines. Said marines were also rushed like the Great Crusade, they weren't his best work.

@honorguard7616

4 жыл бұрын

Engineers: "Good enough is perfect"

"Dipped in cheese and fire ants" this is why I love you arch, such an imaginative boi.

A 53min video on the primaries?! Holy moly, Im gonna lay down and enjoy this!! xD

I was the one who made the Superchat Arch mentioned about Cawl's soul being a "Peephole" for the Emperor. There are a few portions of the "Great Work" book where the Emperor addresses one of the souls/minds that makes up Cawl. In the first Emps addresses the soul by the name Cawl. This gets a bit weird because Cawl as a being was not created until after the heresy and the Emperors death... and the Emperor is not supposed to be able to really see things past his death or the end of heresy. Yet he is able recognize the soul which will become part part of Cawl and identify and accurately name him as someone who will be "Cawl." Emps also waxes on about how even he is at the mercy of time when "not-yet" Cawl addresses his omniscience. Emps then gives "not-yet" Cawl a prophecy that by it's very nature has to happen after the Heresy. "There will come a time where you think you have betrayed me, but you will have not." All this may have the implication that the composite nature of Cawl's soul either somehow allows the Emperor to either glimpse passed the chaos fog or predict and influence Cawl's future. Of course the remembering of these interactions with the Emperor was induced by a Greater C'tan Shard/Xenos device so it may not be fully reliable information.

@somerandomguyfromthebeyond1821

4 жыл бұрын

"...it may not be fully reliable information. " kinda sums up Cawls fluff in general...

@constrainedanacronysm1370

4 жыл бұрын

@@somerandomguyfromthebeyond1821 Guy Haley's book "The Great Work" probably has done the best job of salvaging his fluff. I just wish GW would have led with a character series on Cawl and Gulliman instead of relegating those important characters and plotlines to 2-3 years after the damage has been done. They really dropped the ball.

@somerandomguyfromthebeyond1821

4 жыл бұрын

@@constrainedanacronysm1370 tbh GW has been very bi-polar with there lore writing for the past few years

The grimdark seems to be losing its grimdark unfortunately. Even that video that GW released about the "new Warhammer" was too clean, not so much in the action, but the cgi just looked like a bland 2006 bad video game cutscene.

@omegawilliam95s36

2 жыл бұрын

40k: Oh hey the Imperium’s doing good again. 40k Fans: Wait that’s heretical. The Emperor: HOW???

“Exceptional flatuance” ...Emperor darn it Mortarion

On the off-chance that someone sees this and cares, I'll write my own needlessly long rant on the topic. I'm not exactly a conservatively oriented person. However, I think it's very clear that 40k is a setting that is built largely on conservative and/or authoritarian types of values (albeit not necessarily advocating those values). It seems to me this is a very important and well-established cornerstone of 40k's identity, and whilst I personally tend to be a little bit on my guard whenever these kinds of values are invoked to in real life, they very much have a kind of appeal to them, that can make a setting centered around these ideas enjoyable, even if I don't trust them much in real life. Now, you can argue a bit on exactly what is a conservative ideal and whatnot, but I'd suggest that most of the themes of 40k have something of a conservative, authoritarian or downright fascist leaning. Historical romanticism, machismo, nationalism, destiny, technological skepticism, hierarchical societies, inherited power, hyper-religiousity, xenophobia, cruelty, golden age-narratives, dutiful stoicism, ancient wisdom, birth-given roles, imperialism, themes of civilizational decline, emphasis on masculinity, mythical leader-figures, harsh social morality, survival of the fittest, etc, etc. The reason why this makes for such a fun setting is because these themes tap into cultural ideas we like, or even tap into our evolutionary tribalist instincts. You can argue how much of this is glorification of these themes, or if it's parody, or if it's just presenting these themes for hopefully responsible consumption. Anyhow, this comment isn't meant to start some political argument, my point is just that these kinds of values have strong appeal, and that these themes are essential to 40k. And I think the Space Marines are so well liked because of how strongly they embody these appeals. They connect to classical manly warrior-traditions, they have strong cultures, they embody will, strength, honor, responsibility, they are representations of glory and victory, they are the precious legacy of a god-like father-figure, a remnant of a golden age, and they are the best of the best, representing the pinnacle of everything the Imperium holds sacred. Now, the regular Astartes are not actually the best of the best, but the Grey Knights and the Custodes are more like special exceptions, the regular Space Marines are still the general symbols of badassery, they are the "get-stuff-done" big boys, fighting the good fight. This is why Space Marines are so integral to 40k, and it is why I think the Primaris Marines are such a problem. Because the Primaris Marines contradict the conservative themes of the setting, they are progress, replacement, revolution, they are anti-nostalgia. They do not come from the unbroken chains of proud, historical tradition, they are not the same legacy that was gifted by the legendary figure. The Primaris represent the respected work of the most revered figure in the setting being outdone and replaced, they are the overshadowing of the legandary figures of the Imperium's history. They are the Space Marines, except better, they are here to make normal Space Marines not be cool enough any more. There is a reason why damn-near every Pixar movie seem to involve anxiety about change and irrelevancy, these are very emotionally compelling themes, and whilst I think we are right to often teach the lesson that change is sort of inevitable and that you can't cling to the past forever, that is not the lesson I want 40k to teach. 40k is dark but gleeful romanticism, childish stubbornness, it's faith against all odds, you'd have to completely reinvent it if you wanted it to teach these kinds of lessons about letting go and whatnot. That is why the Space Marines have to at least mostly stay what they classically are in order for the setting to work. There are some things you can change, such as redesigning the wargear. Hell, I sort of like some of the new designs, I like how the armor looks more robustly protective, because I think there is beauty in pragmatic design. My problem is that it breaks somewhat with the "gothic brutalist" aesthetic 40k is known for, they feel a bit too much like Starcraft Marines, a bit too "tacti-cool", but overall I don't mind too much. There are things GW could've done if they wanted to breath new life (and sales) into the Space Marines both in lore and in stores, just say "these new Marines are a bit tougher and stronger, because their new armor is more advanced, now buy our new pay-to-win superior models". They could write in some new plot device that allows the Astartes to recruit new warriors faster, increasing their numbers and making them a major force on the galactic stage in the lore, no longer just scarce remnants of a golden age. They could even say that the Astartes genomes have deteriorated in small incremental ways over the millennia, but that the Imperium now has access to some way of restoring them to their full potency, giving the marines a relative boost, whilst still staying within the Emperor's legacy. These changes would rock the boat a little, but would still be ultimately superficial and true to the general narratives of 40k. I think it would've worked. But instead GW did it in a way that fucked it all up. Why? Do they not understand what their own themes are? Honestly, I don't think of this as the same continuity as old 40k. Usually I have a fair bit of willingness to respect the vision of an author, but I think this breaks the setting too much for me to want to think of the new lore as part of 40k as I know it. I WANT to move on and see what the new lore holds, but as long as it messes up what the setting is about, I can't have much interest in it. Now finally, what could they do to maybe fix this? Aside from downright retconning the Primaris out of existence as if they never happened, the most obvious answer would be to just invoke some nonsense excuse to blow them all up and move on. But that alone wouldn't work, the Primaris have already proven that the classic Marines are replaceable and thus no longer iconic. The only way to fix this is to disgrace the Primaris, to tear them down from their position, to make them flawed if not downright dissasterous. You could still keep the Primaris, as long as they are taken down a peg and don't OVERSHADOW the classic marines. Fell them from grace, humble them, make everyone mistrust them, give them real identity problems, substantial weaknesses, reduce their number and status, allow the classic Marines to have a comeback story. The Primaris can still be better than the classic marines in terms of raw strength, as long as it is made clear that they can never quite be what the classic Marines are. You can make the Primaris your Dark Knights, as long as the classic Marines get to keep their place as the White Knights. Learn from the Jurassic Park/Jurassic World franchise. In JP3, the T-Rex gets replaced by a bigger and badder dino, the Spinosaurus. But the problem is that we don't just want bigger dinos, we want the T-Rex, because the T-Rex is iconic. Say what you want about Jurassic World, but I think they more or less got this right. They introduced a meaner and scarier dino, but they cast that dino as a freak, and whilst it was more deadly than the T-Rex, this is done to cast the T-Rex as a kind of underdog. And in the end the I-Rex is defeated and the T-Rex gets to re-assert its "rightful place" as king of the terrible lizards, roaring triumphantly over the island. Notice that the T-Rex even smashes a skeleton of what I think is a Spinosaurus as it enters the stage to fight the I-Rex, I think the writers were making it clear they have learned a good lesson from JP3. So moral of the story, don't fuck with our T-Rexes, don't fuck with our Space Marines. The Primaris can maybe work as an I-Rex, but don't touch the T-Rex Marines we all know and love. This took like 2 hrs to write btw, fuck my life.

@cooljim1376

4 жыл бұрын

It's not every day I read a book in KZread comment section, but this was so well thought out and presented that I am genuinely interested in having a discussion on this. There is obviously too much to go through just taking turns commenting here, but I really want to discuss this and the philosophy of conservative values and make comparisons to other franchises that have also downgraded their flag ships of their respective franchise. Do you have a Discord profile? If you aren't interested in discussing this after a month no big deal.

@tobiashagstrom4168

4 жыл бұрын

@@cooljim1376 Can't hurt I guess. Fair warning, I'm a little bit of a philosopher, and I'm sort of interested in meta-politics(yes, I know that's the most pretentious term imaginable), but my interests are still very casual, so don't get your hopes up. I wrote my comment so long because I tried to say pretty much everything I wanted to on the topic, so I'm not sure of how much else needs to be said, and I'm not very familiar with other franchises, but we can give it a bash if you've got some idea of what you wanna talk about. Anyway, how we gonna do this? I've barely used Discord, but it works on invite links, right? If we send an invite here in the comment section, would that mean anyone who reads this could join? Not to familiar with this stuff. Not sure quite when would be the best time to chat, but I've got way more free-time than anyone my age is supposed to, so it shouldn't be too difficult finding a slot.

@cooljim1376

4 жыл бұрын

@@tobiashagstrom4168 I'm a philosopher myself, which is why your book interested me lol. We can do it here, but the comment chain would be very long and it wouldn't be in real time. The reason I suggest Discord at all is because there is SO MUCH STUFF to go through. It is doable however. One of the topics in particular that I would like to discuss, the "conservative values" bit on the Imperium. My only reservation with calling 40k conservative is that it's more of an extreme "what if" scenario for all perspectives, belief systems, and governmental systems. A universe where all ideologies are taken to their worst possible fringes such as religious extremism, militant atheism, draconian socialism, forced unity, sexual deviance, stagnation in innovation, and more. As a Christian I of course don't believe in any of this nor do I take it seriously, but the complex philosophy and nature seen in 40k is its most compelling element aside from its iconic gothic iconography and aesthetics, among other themes of course. I believe dumbing it down to a more palatable, generic sci-fi flick like modern Halo or the now defunct Mass Effect series is a huge mistake in both the short term and the long term. It's quite evident this is where GW wants to go as they want to make 40k more kid friendly as well as less complicated for more numerous consumption of casual audiences. Anyway, my Discord name is Mr. Mister (Peter)#5854 all you have to do is add me and we can chat in DM if you want.

@tobiashagstrom4168

4 жыл бұрын

@@cooljim1376 Well, I've sent a request now. I'm probably having dinner any minute now, but after that I should have a couple hour to spare, so hit me up whenever. Not used to writing english in real-time, but we'll see how it goes.

@cooljim1376

4 жыл бұрын

@@tobiashagstrom4168 Apologies, but I don't appear to see it in my pending requests. And it's all cool man.

8:35 A dark time for me....