When you were done calling out the velocity readings, I expected you to turn to the camera and say, “Now let’s go crunch the numbers.” 😂

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

haha. Mr Harrell! I didn't read the numbers until I had a total failure of one camera, and i'll be dan-ged if I don't get numbers, especially with these rounds. If you factor in shipping, these are $2 per round.

@timsharkey1993

6 жыл бұрын

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ that’s pricey, no doubt. Good video! I just couldn’t resist making the Paul Harrell reference.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

With the standard pressure .38 ammo I got a mean velocity of 1,000 fps, and with the Buffalo Bore I got a mean velocity of 1154 fps. In terms of foot pound energy, that is a LOT more. Now the caveat to all of this is........................

@078249

6 жыл бұрын

and if were gonna shoot your grandpas ammo, lets shoot it like he would have shot it

@vaughnlewis1953

5 жыл бұрын

Not bad at all.

Ty your channel has come a long way .it's fun to watch the older videos.still valuable info though.ive learned much.

God I love your videos and your appreciation for revolvers! Awesome test as always, keep it up

Love this video, watch it fairly often. Thanks.

This was a very informative video. It's nice to hear and make sense of some of the basic physics involved. I have a few boxes of the BB Outdoorsman 38 spl +p, hard cast for my designated backpacking revolver, the 3" Ruger LCRx in 38 spl. I haven't yet been to the range to shoot them, but I've got a pretty good idea what to expect now. They might end up in the queue for my heavy 6" S&W in 357, but we'll see...

This video came up in my recommended list again. So I watched it again. I really like the idea you mentioned a while back of having the first round in the cylinder be one of these and the follow ups be GDHPs or CDs. Don't have to worry about crimp jump. For those two assailant drills where you do one into the first and two into the second before shifting back to the first, it may save a shot. You would also still have two left in a J frame for just going into failure mode.

This 38 Special +P 158gr loading by Buffalo Bore duplicates the 1920's "38 Special High Velocity" (AKA 38/44 due to factory advice to shoot only in large frame [S&W "N" frame] 38 SPL revolvers; the 38/44 was not intended to be fired in K-frame's of the 1920's). The 1920's 38/44 (38 Spl HV) 158 gr hit 1200+ fps from a 5" revolver. Buffalo Bore uses modern progressive powders that allow the same velocity as the 1920's loading but at much less pressure. In actual bullet striking force on a 100 pound ballistic pendulum, the BB 38 Spl +P 158 gr LSWC-HP hits almost as hard as a standard 45 ACP 230 gr loading at 850 fps. The 38 moves the pendulum at 0.263 fps while the 45 moves the pendulum at 0.279 fps, barely 6% harder! Even the hottest, heaviest 9mm +P+ 147 gr @ 1090 fps moving the pendulum at 0.229 fps, trails the BB 38 Spl +P in striking force by 15%. The 9mm +P+ trails the 45 ACP standard velocity striking force by 22%. And, in a 357 Mag revolver, the 38 SPL can be handloaded considerably heavier than even the BB loading, to loadings the 9mm +P+ cannot come close to matching.

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

I seen that first hand yesterday when filming my last video. I did 9mm vs .357 magnum vs. this .38 load. I had 3 water jugs and a 2x4 behind the water jugs for each shot. The 9mm and full house 357 magnum didn't damage the 2x4 and the 3rd gallon of water stopped them. This .38 load on the other hand, went through the 3 jugs and chipped the wood and sent it flying 6 feet.

@davidsomerset8411

4 жыл бұрын

Thank you for this input, it was very interesting and makes a lot of sense.

@filianablanxart8305

4 жыл бұрын

Yeah , what 63DW etc said ! The " FBI Load" when first introduced in the '70s was in the neighborhood of 900fps from 4in .38 . Over the years gradually creeped to 850-ish . Of course variations from lot to lot , and the Big Four's ( R-P, W-W, Federal, CCI ) overlapped each other . During the Revolver Era , they all competed with each other bidding on LE contracts . All four were generally considered equivalent , and no brand performed measurably different on the street . Nowadays , it is most commonly seem in W-W , but I have a recent plain white box of Federal 38G . But historically , the neutering of .38 special actually happened in 1974 . That's when the official catagory of .38 Plus P was introduced . BUT simultaneously the pressure levels were reduced . Some differences in testing procedures , but roughly , a top end of 1973 (plain) .38 spl was slightly hotter than post 1974 Plus P .

Nice ! Glad you did the test on it. Great round, I carry this in all steel K frame smiths or L frames. I’ve never shot this in a J frame 38 only

@steviesevieria1868

6 жыл бұрын

David Bliss smart!!

Awesome video! I bought a lower grain because I'm just starting to learn the gun. But I'm very pleased with .38 spl +p info I've been able to gather. I own a 9mm also. I think I have it covered now. Did it all for under $700 1 Charter the other Taurus.

All good stuff. Learned a lot, since I shoot 38s from my ultralight 357.

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you. If you like learning specific data when it comes to handgun cartridges, check out a couple more vids I did. One is putting the "lead vs. copper" velocity to the test, another is just talking about the power of revolver cartridges. kzread.info/dash/bejne/ln12zKl-gtnAdLA.html and kzread.info/dash/bejne/lKaZsNqxpsmel7Q.html&t=.

Looks like a good woods walking round, especially in my Pietta 1873 clone with a 5.5" barrel.

To my mind these are the reincarnation of the old .38-44 load from 1930. They got 1100+ fps from 4 or 5" barrels. Handloaders make them today, mostly with 2400 powder. Great in magnum chambers. Good points about the pressure and the benefits of lead bullets. Buffalo Bore is the real deal, and this ammo is pressure tested and safe in any +p rated 38 revolver. I used to have them in my Model 67 as a main house gun. I still have the 2 boxes put away somewhere. One of these days i will chrono test them out of that and a 2' Model 64. If this doesn't stop a bad guy, u probably need a 20mm cannon.

@davidcreely693

2 жыл бұрын

The 67 is a great house gun, and what I use as well. I’ve owned it since 1986. It never fails. Previously, I used semi-jacketed wad cutters, but now these BB FBI loads are all I use. A loaded weapon and a Safariland speed loader with the same cartridge helps me feel safe. For carry, not so much, so I use a 9mm micro pistol for that duty. I really wish I could open carry the 67, but we all know how bad that is for so many reasons even if legal (which it is in my state). Carry on gentlemen!

@troy9477

2 жыл бұрын

@@davidcreely693 -Agreed. A good K frame of any barrel length is a fine house gun. I too prefer the Safariland Comp 2 speedloaders, but i still have plenty of HKS ones for K & L frame, plus N frame (never seen or heard of Comp 2 for N frame), plus 5 shot J frame and 5 shot 44 Spl. My 67 is an old CHP gun, and is so marked on the right side, below the cylinder window. It dates to 1982, the last year of the pinned barrel, which is also nice. The second one i had, i gave to the ex (by choice) when we divorced.

Very nice video buffalo bore ammunition is very hot 38 special+p is same powerful as 357 magnum ,I can imagine how much powerful buffalo bore 357 loads.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

.357 magnum is usually around 650 foot pounds energy with a good .357 magnum in a 4" barrel. Buffalo Bore .357 magnum ammo is about 800 foot pounds energy, which is greater than some .44 magnum cartridges in 6" barrels.

@bassinassassin9077

5 жыл бұрын

Try Underwood Ammo

Cool video, I've watched a couple of your other ones recently about Buffalo Bore. I just ordered 7 boxes of some 38 and 40 cal ammo. I'm kinda bummed about that setback as I bought these rounds for a S&W 66-1 And a few other guns.

I think I might hang onto my Taurus poly 85 +p. It’s light, fun to shoot, and more effective than I thought.

One great advantage of a revolver is that you can put a different cartridge in each chamber and none will get jammed.... Ever...

Here in 2021, the BB 20A load still scares me. However, they have a 20C load which is a standard pressure variant.

This is the old FBI load and it worked well

Thanks for sharing this, Sam. I'd like to get my hands on some to fire from my .357 magnum revolvers.

Great video and love the imperial data comments! I have the Buffalo Bore .38+p 158gr hard cast Outdoorsman and the 180gr hard cast Outdoorsman for mountain carry hiking here in the wild Idaho mountains. I usually have my SP101 3” tank with Hogue mono grips on my hip. Should get a chest rig. Love Buffalo Bore ammo which is also here in Idaho. Contacted the Ruger CEO to see if they would consider getting out of the Leftist east coast for a facility here. He had his buddy who lives near me contact me personally by phone yesterday to give me insight on that. We were talking about Buffalo Bore ammo and he said all his chronograph numbers were dead on accurate what the box said. He was yielding 1400 FPS out of his little revolver! Can you do a video on the Buffalo Bore 180gr hard cast Outdoorsman?

@wehrewulf

Жыл бұрын

Imperial? How about empirical?

You were clocking typical 9x19mm velocities with a bullet weight heavier than typically loaded (I've only seen 147gr) in 9x19mm. That was definitely no joke hitting the water! Very nice splash. The tumbling is no surprise. I'm sure it would do the same in meat. The same bullet at Magnum pressure would probably not penetrate more. It would just open up more, probably fragmenting, making a nasty mess.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

It's truly old school technology pushing it to the max and competing very well against new technology.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

typically the 1,150+ velocity with a 9mm is with the 124 gr Nato loading.

@Fudmottin

6 жыл бұрын

Yep. The super zippy 9mm loads are only 115gr or even less. A slower bullet is going to penetrate more (to a point) because there is less force slowing it down. In short barrels, I take penetration over expansion. Nice to have both, but I don't want a burst chamber.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

If I ever carried something like this in my snubby, i'd definitely go with the standard pressure version of this.

@Fudmottin

6 жыл бұрын

It worked for Paul Harrell. For +P loads, I imagine any 125-135gr JHP will do. Those that fail to expand will penetrate more. Those that do expand are going to be doing some cutting as well as crushing. I know it's easy to be a keyboard warrior. But for daily carry, I want something that is light, comfortable, and gives me the confidence that on a bad day, it will do the job. Something that fits in the pocket without dragging down my pants or catching attention, having a decent cartridge and reliability, ticks the boxes.

In my little 11 oz Smith centennial 342 air light TI.. I load with Federal HST 38 special plus p 130 grain.. Federal achieves plus p velocity by seating the humongous hollow point bullet deep in the case the bullet is flush with the case mouth like a wad cutter.. this achieves plus p velocity without adding more powder the result is a low recoiling like a 22 magnum in my 11 oz gun penetration through denim covered ballistic gel is 13 in full expansion of the huge hollow point

I wish stores near me stocked this ammo

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

It's not stocked in stores in my area either. Had to order it online.

This would be a great load for K frame sized 38 revolver giving close to 357 power. It would actually be a good choice in mid and full sized 357 mags as well

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

It does alright but it's really a niche product. There's a few more .38 Special rounds that have done better but they are lighter bullets.

Hey... it kicks pretty well in the SP101! But its fun!

@JonnyDoey

5 жыл бұрын

Cranky Buzzard you just need hogue grips on your sp101 and it’ll eat the recoil

@crankybuzzard6867

5 жыл бұрын

Trust me.... got em.... and they help a ton! Thanks John!!@@JonnyDoey

Thanks for this video, it answered some questions I've had about this loading. Was wanting to try it in a .38 ruger lcr but I will stick with my 125+p golden sabers for now. What load do you carry in a snubby?

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

Right now I carry the 135 gr+P Speer Gold Dot in my snubby.

Try out the 110 38 +p. Its a solid copper round by BB. PAUL HARRELL, tested it out of 1.8 " barrel snubby and tested at over 1190 fps out of a snubby!

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I have a feeling that it would be close or even more blast than this round.

@johnnyvasquez4605

6 жыл бұрын

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ watch the video isn't too bad ... compares it to corbon and others

To get the speed in a 38 you use a large charge of a slow powder you don't deep seat on a fast powder,you take advantage of case capacity which far exceeds 9mm

@WhoWouldWantThisName

5 жыл бұрын

But in a short bbl. (2" for example) would that powder have time to burn enough to get that bullet up to speed?

I was thinking about putting some of this threw my airweight, but after watching this I think not. Looks pretty stout.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

The recoil is less than a magnum, but with bullet pull in a 39 oz 686, I probably wouldn't either.

@357-swagnumultramagax9

3 жыл бұрын

@Jerry Burnett wow that recoil must be brutal

It catches your attention even in the SP101

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

Fired it in my 10.8 OZ J-frame. Got 1,002 FPS. It was about double the felt recoil of a .357 Mag IN an SP101

@crankybuzzard6867

5 жыл бұрын

lol.... nice!@@GunSam

I like to come back to this video from time to time because it is just so dang cool. And because I've got factory 135gr GDHP as well as a box of 135gr GDHP bullets for loading, I keep thinking about what kind of potential they might have without blowing up my 638 Airweight. If they are pushed out at 1000 fps, that's 300 fpe. It's more than .38 Spl +P loading data numbers, but less than .357 Magnum numbers. It's also solidly in 9x19mm territory when using a short barrel 9mm like the LC9 (3" barrel). Weren't you ringing 1000 fps with the 110gr Hornady Critical Defense in your 342PD? I'll have to try and find that video. Or I could just not fart around and simply run the BB 20A as "universal" revolver defense loads.

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

I was getting 1,002 fps/352 fpe in my snubby with this load. Actually, this ammo in the 686 has surpassed the energy level of the last magnum I ran through that 686, which will be the magnum in the video i'm releasing later today.

@Fudmottin

5 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam I'm about to watch your video. I did a slight miscount of the 135 gr GDHP that I have. Seems I have four boxes. I guess I married the 135 GDHP for a while. I tracked down my chrony and also found I have a powder trickler (manual) and digital powder scale. I hope the electronics parts fared OK because they were down in the basement which is damp and there is mildew. I have a leather magazine pouch down there that looks like a dead animal.

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

The electronics in them are pretty basic on a good size circuit board, so i'd say let it dry out and it will probably work.

@Fudmottin

5 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam I just hope I didn't leave batteries in there. I brought the stuff up, but I didn't open it yet. I lost a nice Nikon 8008 35mm camera to the battery pack exploding inside it. I've gone digital now, but I'm still depressed about it.

@Fudmottin

5 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam Well the stuff all looks good. I replaced the battery in the Chrony F1 and it turned on. I don't anticipate problems chronographing loads at the outdoor range I'm a member of. They don't allow shooting of "tin cans", so I'm guessing I can't shoot water bottles or anything like that there. If the Underwood loaded 158gr GDHP ammo is going a lot faster than the Speer loading, I would like to see it open up. I don't know if I'll be able to find a spot where I can do something like that.

I uses 10% of tin in alox lead and powder load´s 45 ACP in my 38 Special cartridges.

buffalo bore ammo is right up there with corbon ammo, buffalo bore being more common and trusted.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I would think that the Cor.Bon would be at an unsafe pressure. I mean, I don't know this for fact, but if they are using jacketed bullets to get the same velocity as the BB, they would have to be pretty hot.

I always wondered why they weren't able to make a high powered 38 special, because it has so much room for powder

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Limited power because of SAAMI spec, because of old weaker revolvers. The .38 Special case is the same case as the .357 mag but shorter, so the construction of the case can easily handle .357 Mag pressure. Also and modern revolver made from steel could also handle that. But because of old revolvers, they can't go over SAAMI or CIP spec. So all you are left to work with is getting the right powder blend or powder to get more power within the 17,000 PSI max, 20,000 PSI for +P or 21,700 PSI for CIP, which is a long ways away from SAAMI's .357 Mag max pressure of 35,000 PSI.

@eric-the-rider2317

Жыл бұрын

The original 38 was a black powder round. That’s why the case is so large. They load them with smokeless powder now.

One of my favorite and most accurate 38 special loads is a 145 gr Lead hollow-point handloaded with BE-86...very accurate and comfortable to shoot out of my snubbies. I need to run a water jug or melon test on it to see how it looks :)

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I don't think I ever used any 145 gr bullets before, nor that powder. Sounds like a unique load.

@surgeonwithagun6793

6 жыл бұрын

Unique and Be-86 are closely related I believe.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I'm really only 4 years into hand loading and have yet to use either so I still can't get a comparison. I have used Trail Boss, W231, Titegroup and Power Pistol for .38 special so far.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I was using the term unique, not the powder lol

That is dang near 357 velocity for that weight.

SAAMI lists .38 SPL and .38 SPL +P in my reloading book from Accurate Powders lists Standard pressure as 17,000 PSI and 18,500 PSI for +P. While in High School I remember the Velocities of 158Gr bullets with standard pressure .38 Special being 850 FPS and +P was 1150 FPS (4" barrel velocities). After the bulk of the nations, LE agencies dropped their revolvers in the mid-1990's, Standard pressure was 850 FPS and +P throttled back to 950 FPS. By 2010, I was shocked to see Standard pressure now only 700 FPS and "+P" being 850 FPS!!!! Personally, it's either stupid liability or ammo company executives trying to save money on propellent costs and kill the caliber as "yesterday's" cartridge. Today most reloaders, think the 700 / 850 FPS 158 gr velocities at 15,000 / 17,000 PSI Pressure levels. If greed and lawyers went away, imagine having a 158 Gr GDHP or HST 20,000 PSI +P load. It could deal with almost all barriers within reason and make those that can only afford an .38 Special or states like Florida that limit security companies to 9mm or .38 Special only. For a while here in Ohio, when it came to private security companies and armed guards, even though we were authorized (under Ohio law ) to carry semi-auto handguns as long as we qualified to state standards, it was either corporate policy or INSURANCE COMPANIES that dictated the continued carrying of revolvers. A .38 SPL+P doing 1150 FPS and a modern bonded HP would be a godsend.

I've been thinking more about this Buffalo Bore stuff. Mainly, what kind of pressure is required to achieve the energy level it's getting. I did some "back of the napkin" calculations and came up with something surprising. Or, perhaps, not so much. The ammo box advertises 1000fps @ 351fpe. I used the W = FD formula to work out the force required to get that energy in 2". W is muzzle energy, F is force, and D is the bullet travel length. That works out to 2,100 lbs which needs 21,838 PSI. That's the average PSI over the length of two inches for a .35" diameter bullet (area is 0.0962 square inches). I'm assuming it gets swaged down in the barrel for a good gas seal. You achieved 467fpe with a 4" barrel. Your gun's numbers come out to 1,401 lbs or 14,569 PSI. I'm not accounting for the force required to push the bullet through the barrel. I'm sure it is less than a jacketed 125gr bullet. Two data points are not enough to plot a pressure curve. It does look like the BB is exceeding SAAMI specs though. Pressure curves tend to rise very quickly and then drop off as the powder burns. Burn rate and bullet weight are the two big factors in the pressure curve. As the bullet moves down the barrel, pressure drops with the increasing volume available. The area under the curve is the total muzzle energy not accounting for frictional losses. It's possible I made a math error somewhere. I did initially calculate the PSI wrong (I made a multiplication error). If I didn't, it looks like BB is running this load at least 10% over SAAMI. I don't know what the standards are for testing firearms. I have heard that a high pressure round is fired to make sure the gun is strong enough. A +P rated gun should handle this load safely. A steady diet would probably not be a good idea. I practice with standard pressure Magtech 130gr FMJ flat nose. It's a kitten compared to the Fiocchi 140gr FMJ flat nose in .357 Magnum. There's over a ton of force pushing back on you when the gun is fired!

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I wish I understood all of that math, but I really don't. I do know that my gut tells me that it would have to be really darn close to the max pressure if not a little over. Max pressure on a +P is 20,000 and a +P+ which is not an official thing, is 22,000. I think that Buffalo Bore knows that even over pressured, it won't harm most firearms, seeing as proof rounds are double pressure. Long story shot, personally I feel like a .357 magnum is really the only gun I would want to fire many of these through.

@Fudmottin

6 жыл бұрын

Even though it was just multiplication and division, I did have to check my numbers. I calculated average pressures which would be less than maximum pressure actually achieved. I did not know how much over proof rounds were. Your gut is right I think. I'm pretty sure the BB is hitting the 22,000 PSI mark. It is certainly over the 20,000 PSI standard. I just watched Paul Harrell's video on the BB 110gr +P solid copper HP ammo. That averaged close to 1200fps! It should have less recoil than the 158gr though. He also ran standard Remington +P 125gr JHP which seemed to do about the same damage to the meat target as the BB did. I wish he shot some of that over the chronograph. I wonder if I'm overthinking this whole ammo thing.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

You will LOVE my video I am releasing later today, Tested the Hornady Critical Duty ammo. The 220 gr .45 did 1,015 average velocity and the 135 grain .357 did 1,295 average velocity. Both were EXACTLY 503 ft lbs energy, yet there is a little difference in the target!

@Fudmottin

6 жыл бұрын

I'm looking forward to that. I have Critical Duty in the .357 Magnum. So I'm now mulling over the virtues of velocity versus cross sectional area on the target. The .45 (without running the math) looks like it has more momentum. It's going slower. My physics is not quite up to the task of dealing with the cross sectional density. Maybe a bigger splash on the first water jug with the .357 with the same number of jugs penetrated? It's a really tough call because the .45 has that larger cross section. As for wood, that's gotta be down to energy. I would guess that the .357 went a little further to break the same volume of wood. Then again, maybe wood doesn't work that way. I'm more confident that the .45 moved the wood further back.

@Fudmottin

6 жыл бұрын

I've been bothered by my pressure calculations. So I took my dial calipers and measured from the nose of the cartridge in my S&W 638 to the muzzle using the depth gauge. That was 2.1". I then measured a 158gr .357" bullet which was 0.7". I added the two numbers together to get 2.8" from the base of the bullet to the muzzle. This reduces the required average force to achieve 351fpe to 1,504lbs. That would make the average pressure about 15,040 PSI which is well inside SAAMI specs. The peak pressure would of course be higher. However, there are no grounds for claiming that Buffalo Bore is exceeding SAAMI pressures. This is something that was keeping me up at nights! This brings up another point about our snubbie friend, the J-Frame. Even though the barrel is only 1.875", the actual bullet travel (depending on bullet length and seating depth) is about 2.8". My 649 has a 2.125" barrel, 1/4" longer. The cylinder dimensions are identical with the exception that the chambers are bored for .357 Magnum length cases. This adds a new dimension to the micro-9 vs J-Frame "debate". The J-Frame allows *almost as much* bullet travel as a 3" barrel length 9x19mm! The kicker is the pressure. Standard SAAMI 9mm Luger is 35,000 PSI and +P is 38,500 PSI. As Paul Harrell would say, that's a *lot more*. However, the case capacity of the 9mm Luger is less. A lot less. So a .38Spl +P load should be able to make up some of the difference by having a longer burn so that the average pressure can be kept up. I'm not sure how possible this is. My guess is that companies like Buffalo Bore, Corbon, and Underwood all work to maximize muzzle velocity for their hot loads. They can probably do it better than we can because they have more control over the chemistry of the powder that they use. .357 Magnums out of snub nose revolvers manage to pull off a lot more muzzle velocity than 9mm Luger and SAAMI specs 35,000 PSI for that cartridge. So it has to be down to case capacity. Obviously the chronograph has the last word.

I love my 38 bodyguard

Sam, Buffalo Bore .38 special 158 gr + P SWC or the Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr. + P FTX? what one would you choose for a 2" barrel and why?

@GunSam

Жыл бұрын

In general I would use Critical Defense+P because of the smoke a lead round produces. It's possible it wouldn't matter, but for self defense it's possible the smoke could become blinding. The Critical Defense performs well and nearly always expands even from a 2" barrel, plus overall it is more shootable from light alloy guns. Now if you had something like a very heavy larger revolver, the Buffalo Bore might be a good option or a better option, but since you weren't gun specific I will say Critical Defense.

I actually shot that exact load out of a Ruger LCR chambered for 357 magnum. It was NOT FUN. It hurt like hell. My hand was bruised for 5 days. Don't try it. The standard velocity version would probably be a better choice.

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

With the LCR .357-8 lbs of felt recoil for you. A full size 9mm pistol with a regular round is 3 lbs felt recoil.

@rogerbeckner6419

5 жыл бұрын

Problem was........you bought a LCR! I shoot Gold Dots at full power 357 in my SP 101 with a 2 1/4 in barrel, and they are slightly more recoil than BB 38 +P. You have a light weight pistol that will punish you for running a man-stopping load! Don't expect your little gun to be able to show effective numbers without beating you to a pulp. No weight, massive felt recoil. This has been proven in all weapons. Shoot a featherweight 12 gauge with full hunting loads and see how your shoulder feels! Shoot a 300 Win Mag that weighs 7 pounds. You cannot argue or win against physics.

@MegaAppleshit

5 жыл бұрын

Should have got the SP101. XD

17,000-20,000 psi!? Eh? Wow!? LOL! I enjoy your videos...

@GunSam

3 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

You oughta do a video in yhe "bullet pull" or ""bullet creep" in revolvers.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

There's a lot of specific points to that. Worst of the worst would be a lead 9mm. That has everything going against it. The Critical Defense 9mm would be a good load for a 9mm revolver because they have cannelures on them which is unique for an auto cartridge. It would be an easy round to have someone roll crimp. Heavy loadings, light revolvers, lead bullets and taper crimps all play their part. The worst situation one could think of would be a titanium revolver like a 340 PD, chambered in 9mm and a lead bullet with no roll crimp-I would about guarantee all the bullets in the cylinder would be yanked right out from the brass.

@bills1613

6 жыл бұрын

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ Zactly. An excellent topic for a video. Thanks. I subscribed.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you.

Wow them Buffalo boars are hitting there moving faster than the hundred and ten grain Critical Defense

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

They are actually faster than 158 gr Aguila .357 magnums that I have by about 75 FPS.

Can you tested on a S&W 64-8 4 inch barrel? I believe it's a K frame, my first revolver. Can you exceed at pressure? The hot load will be used in a shotgun adapter 18 inches long, for hunting deer size game.

@GunSam

4 жыл бұрын

I wouldn't worry about it. If they exceeded SAAMI specs they would have added a non SAAMI moniker like "+p+". Also I've fired it in my aluminum .38 Special J frame with no issues, so a 64-8 is fine for it.

I got these in my Taurus 85 SS, it's heavy and can take the beating.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I'd be cautious with them, making sure to check the remaining cartridges crimp while test firing them.

@blakeburdette7171

6 жыл бұрын

I only shot 5. The remaining 15 I have to be careful with, they are very soft. If you have them in pockets, they can easily crimp on keys etc..

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

Personally I only bought them to test. I think there are probably better choices for self defense ammo, but I do like to pull this one out when people talk smack about how weak a .38 special is. Chronographing it myself with video proof is nice. I would not shoot them in my 342PD, not that I couldn't handle it, but rather I think it wouldn't be good for it, despite the fact that this ammo is well within SAAMI specifications.

Have you ever seen a copper jacketed bullet with a plain lead bottom have the lead melt, I never have.

test the buffalo bore standard pressure ammo!!!!!!!

Hi. Could you recommend a good Target ammo grain for an old-school S&W model 10 38 special and is +p animal safe fire out of it what to use as just in case ammo??? Thanks for the video by the way

@GunSam

4 жыл бұрын

Usually when we talk about target ammo, the safest is a 158 gr bullet of any variety because with 125 gr or lighter often times the powder burn is directly on the forcing cone and can wear it away. The 158 gr seals the gap for that short moment being a longer bullet, making it better for shooting a LOT of rounds. Lead bullets do have a lot of advantages as you will get more velocity out of them than jacketed because the bore friction is less, however they get messy fast. I would not use +P in an older model 10. I doubt it would cause real damage, but older steel is not as good as newer steel so it can wear out the gun faster if not rated for it. Personally I would go with some sort of light loaded standard pressure jacketed 158 gr ammo for target practice as there's no mess and it will work well. If you want powerful and effective standard pressure defensive ammo for .38 Special( not to be fired a lot), the 110 gr Remington HTP is very good, the Gold Dot 125 gr standard pressure is good, and the Federal Hydrashok 110 gr low recoil standard pressure is good too.

@GoodFellaAtxSS44

4 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam thanks for the info sir

Hey Sam, do you have any Vids about normal pressure .38 spl? My revolvers are all old. No Plus P or Plus P Plus. Thanks!

@PDIcomics

3 жыл бұрын

You’re allowed to put a cylinder or two with this ammo to test it for concealed carry and then carry it. You just can’t put a steady diet through it. In today’s world (including the BLM thug terrorists and Antifa) there is no need not to have the maximum advantage and extreme effectiveness these rounds offer out of a snubby. None whatsoever.

@BobMarley-pm1xb

3 жыл бұрын

PDIcomics Thank you Sir.

So out of a 4 inch barrel, is this round a one shot stopper? I mean in the middle of the chest.

@mmabagain

3 жыл бұрын

Too many variables involved to know, but probably.

You think those could stop a black bear?

2:04... Yeah that's what she said

You may be only one a few that do these tests correctly. When comparing X caliper to X caliper you need to test the hottest most powerful load (potential) each can handle. Good job. I see too many people comparing “similar loads” in grain weight and other which defeats the purpose of potential. It’s like putting a 4 cylinder in a Ferrari and racing a Honda then claiming the Honda is just as fast as the Ferrari.

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you. I have tested a Super-Vel .38+P load as well, 90 gr and I was getting around 1,600 FPS and over 500 ft lbs of muzzle energy. Unlike Buffalo Bore, Super-Vel claims to be SAAMI spec. That was in a 4" barrel, I don't know of any SAAMI spec 9mm that can hit 500 ft lbs muzzle energy even in a 4.9" barrel.

@webflys

5 жыл бұрын

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ yes amazing results. I think many rightfully get confused because 38sp has been around for 100+ years and started with black powder. With the jackets and loads today for EDC or defense simply buying the right ammo (that hopefully will never be used) is critical.

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

@@webflys Most people don't realize that the potential of the .38 Special is backed off on purpose, as to give people what they expect-a very shootable round. Something like a 9mm or .357 Magnum will have a max pressure of 35,000 PSI, and those rounds are usually loaded to that potential. 38 Special is something like 18,500 PSI max, but the ammo you often buy is loaded around 12,000 PSI, so it gives the false perception that it's weak, when loaded to +P max SAAMI of 20,000 PSI or even better yet the European CIP standard of 22,000 PSI, it's a hell of a cartridge.

This is the round I carry in my 340PD, not much fun to shoot in this light gun.

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

My concern would definitely be the bullet pull.

@oldcop18

4 жыл бұрын

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ I switched to the Hornady 110 grain +P flex tip for that very reason. I hated to give up my tried & trusted FBI load but had read reports about the bullet jump thing.

That gas check makes people think its a hot load. But i suspect they put it there to rip lead out of the bore?! A handloader could have more control over bullet diameter and so on. I watched Paul Harrel’s vid on this load, and it made 830fps outta his J frame snubbie. And all bullets looked like mushrooms. I think this is a probaly great snubbie load, but suspect a little lighter bullet would be even more ideal. Anyone make a 140gr swchp loads?

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

It probably was a different load. I get over 1,000 FPS in my 1.875" J-frame with this ammo.

@CandidZulu

5 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam Correct, he used their hot standard pressure load. Kinda impressed they expanded!

Would you use this load in a 2.25" bbl SP 101 in .357 mag.?

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

I probably would not as the creep out of the case was seen even in the 686. In that Ruger i'd expect 1,050 FPS though.

@WhoWouldWantThisName

5 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam Thanks. Hmmm, it's a shame. I wish there were some good solution to this issue, a better crimp maybe.

@WhoWouldWantThisName

5 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam Due to this issue, I think I am now leaning towards semi-jacketed wide mouthed HP's for short barreled revolvers. That way you still have that soft lead exposed at the opening of the cavity and much of the side wall of the bullet, allowing for easy expansion at lower velocities. Fully jacketed should still be fine for ,357 magnum loads but for .38 Spl. I think it doesn't hurt to give it all the help we can. I love the idea of being able to still get a good sized wound cavity and penetration with a round that has low pressure, recoil, muzzle blast, etc.. To me a potent/capable .38, or a light load .357 mag. is what I would prefer to carry in a snub nose.

What make and model holster?

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

DeSantis thumb break scabbard.

Have you used the inceptor ammo b4?

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

Rooster Cogwell. I have tried Ruger ARX in .45 ACP, but no other kinds.

@bigsasserify

6 жыл бұрын

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ it's a good performing round

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I have had it in mind that I do want to do a video, or multiple videos where I test ARX or Inceptor rounds with the .357 mag vs. the .45 ACP and also .38 special vs. the .380 ACP. I think out of all four of those, the .45 would stand alone because it's so much heavier than the rest. 118 gr vs. 56-77 gr on the others if my memory is correct.

Try the Remington ultimate defense +p full size handgun.

@patrickbasin9389

6 жыл бұрын

It’s bonded and goes through wood well.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

Patrick La Shell. Are you pulling a joke?

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I say that because in a recent video, I did try that load and it was terrible, 16" low at 7 yards, put a hole through my chronograph.

@patrickbasin9389

6 жыл бұрын

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ I think I remember that. Did you try it in the 686? I’ve shot it in my sw 64 and I was pleased with the accuracy. Doesn’t mean it’s a good round though.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I don't have any more rounds to test out of it, and I decided not to use Remington anymore. I have had a lot of bad luck with them, starting with my uncle almost being killed by one of their faulty deer rifles, down to their .22 Thunderbolts messing up my guns.

They are as powerful as you can get a 38 special that I have ever seen ... Underwood loads the same thing cheeper in price . Also check out the 125 grain gold dot with the same powder charge ... Pretty effective

@sixshootinparker3823

5 жыл бұрын

Or load your own. Speer and Hornady offer 158 SWCHP swaged bullets so you can load as hot as you like.

@sixshootinparker3823

5 жыл бұрын

LT: Weird...I guess it was the stupid internet provider/bad connection or KZread that duplicated my post.

This is how 38 special should be loaded.

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

This was better: kzread.info/dash/bejne/aqGVrs2Yc7yTiaQ.html

Yeah but you got a four inch barrel there or so. Who wants to conceal carry a four inch revolver or pistol? It's a different story for police that open carry though.

@GunSam

5 жыл бұрын

The world doesn't evolve around concealed carry. My sister has a 4" .38 Special she keeps for home defense. In a 1.875" barrel we get 1,002 FPS and 352 ft lbs, if you were wondering. That being said, this cartridge has more recoil than a full house .357 Magnum cartridge, so using it in an alloy snubby isn't a good choice.

Sorry Tex your Incorrect compare a Buffalo Bore to Buffalo Bore as you clarified 38 special at 1154 FPS and 467 pounds per energy 9mm Buffalo Bore or Underwood has more pressure more energy in a 9mm

158 grains will hit hard than a 9mm

I guess this proves once and for all that the 38 special is the superior caliber over the 9mm

@GunSam

4 жыл бұрын

It proves it can be, I have another video with an even more powerful .38 Special round.

@GODWITHUS0712

4 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam Sweet man I got the GP 100 and I always tell my 9mm friends that the 38 special is loaded much hotter then the 9mm. This proves my point to them. 9mm can only do so much but the facts are facts. keep up the good work for you to represent the 38 special guys and its supremacy towards the 9mm. They need to know the truth.

@GunSam

4 жыл бұрын

@@GODWITHUS0712 What we see with the 9mm is a good efficient cartridge, however it's power is limited between 300 and 400 ft lbs energy and that includes +P ammo and the nose of the bullet is rounded so hollow cavities have to be small for feeding. While most .38 Special ammo comes in at only around 200 ft lbs, some of the +P goes between 300 and 500 ft lbs energy, so the power level is easier to work with, and it being a revolver not only can the bullets have a huge hollow cavity for easier expansion, but the reliability remains the same between power levels which you won't see with too light or too hot 9mm ammo. Really the main advantage to the 9mm is capacity, however the 9mm fanboy's need to stop comparing the lowest standard pressure .38 Special to 9mm.

@GODWITHUS0712

4 жыл бұрын

@@GunSam Very true you got a new subscriber keep up the good work exposing those 9mm fan boys.

If I was to carry 38. I'd be carrying the buffalo bore. And same with 9mm. 357mag in buffalo bore is way too powerful for edc. Leave it to woods carry.

But the smaller snubbies 9MM +p would still be more powerful 3" and less?

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I just looked up some numbers on a web site that showed some real world numbers from a 9mm LCR 1.875" with a variety of 124 gr+P 9mm ammo, the great thing was that all of the +P ammo that they tested were all consistent between 1,075 and 1099 fps in that LCR. That's an average out of the several loads they tested of 1,084 fps and 324 ft lbs energy. Now compared to this buffalo Bore load, buffalo bore themselves lists this 158 gr+P load at 1,000 fps from a 2" snub, but I have seen other tests that show this round achieving 1,069 fps from a S&W 642 1.875". No matter how you slice it, this .38 special load is more powerful than almost all 9mm+P loads out there. That being said, I would not use either of these setups. A 9mm+P is too much for a snub nose revolver because the chance of bullet creep with automatic rounds that have no roll crimp. I also would not use this Buffalo Bore +P .38 round in a snub nose revolver. In reality, the "proper" rounds to be used in small carry 2" snub nose revolvers are going to be standard pressure 9mm and jacketed .38 special+P (not Buffalo Bore) . In those setups you will get about 1,000 fps with the 124 gr 9mm and about 900 fps with the 125 gr .38 special+P. That's 275 ft lbs energy vs. 225 ft lbs energy, favoring the 9mm. Sources of information: kzread.info/dash/bejne/qZyuqMSCnMzWo7w.html mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2014/11/ruger-lcr-9mm-review-pocket-9mm-for.html

@thodthverdthur

6 жыл бұрын

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ but what about the BB 38 +p in the 357 LCR?

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

A .357 LCR at 17 oz would be a little better than lets say a ~ 14 oz .38 Special LCR or .38 Special S&W 642. My concern about this round is not overpressuring or excessive recoil or anything of that nature, because it is still within SAAMI specific specs, but rather my concern is with bullet creep. Such energy without enough weight to absorb the G-forces, or enough friction to hold that bullet in the case is my concern. In a sub 20 oz gun, personally I would stick with jacketed bullets or I would carry a heavier steel revolver if I was set on using the BB load- such as the Kimber K-6, Ruger SP101 or new Colt Cobra. But if you noticed, two if those guns are .357 magnum, so at that point this .38+P load sort of becomes obsolete. Probably the place that this load will truly shine would be in something like a S&W 64, nice medium frame steel .38 special revolver with a 4" barrel, or even the Colt Cobra .38 would be a good choice. But like I was trying to say, most of the revolvers out there that will handle this round appropriately are steel .357 magnum revolvers, and at that point why not just go magnum.

@thodthverdthur

6 жыл бұрын

Exacty you make alot of valid points. I was considering the LCR 9MM to use with +P ammo but now I have changed my mind to the 357 instead which I can use with the BB 38 +P

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

Both are good choices. For me none of them make any difference, I reload my ammo and 9mm to .357 magnum cost the same to make, but if I did not, the 9mm would make a good choice. I know that the LCR in 9mm and LCR in .357 magnum are essentially the same revolver, polymer grip frame with all steel everywhere else, as where the .38 special version is polymer frame/aluminum alloy and steel. You can't go wrong with either. Obviously reloading is faster with the 9mm one with the moon clips, but the .357 magnum can get a decent gain in power. Personally, in that type of .357 magnum, I prefer lower end magnums, such as the Remington Golden Saber or Hornady Critical Duty. Both of those will get you maybe 1,150 fps-ish, be manageable recoil and still put you a touch above 9mm+P power.

You are comparing ammo more than .38 against 9mm. title says More POWERFUL than 9mm? Well no it isn't LOL

@GunSam

4 жыл бұрын

How is it not more powerful? I proved it is, but even so the fact remains that a .38 Special can have more energy than a 9mm even though it's max pressure is at +P is 20,000 PSI as where 9mm+P+ is 38,500 PSI. I have proven .38 Special can be more powerful multiple times including Underwood 158 gr that I was getting 1,220 FPS/522 ft lbs energy. There's simply not enough case capacity to push a 9mm, even a +P+ that fast in that weight range. We're talking a 147 gr 9mm+P+ would struggle to hit 1,200 FPS even in a 5" barrel. Similarly a 124 gr+P+ 9mm will struggle to get 1,300 FPS as where the right load with a .38 Special+P will push a 125 gr at 1,350 FPS. I have even pushed a 90 gr .38 Special+P Super-Vel at 1,650 FPS about 545 ft lbs energy. No matter how you slice it the potential for the .38 Special is higher which is impressive because it's doing it at almost half the chamber pressure. Now what you're probably thinking is that you're using .38 Special numbers from run of the mill ammo like Winchester, Federal and so on. What they do is for cost they just put the same charge of 9mm powder, fast burning low charge in their .38 Special ammo so they don't have to mess with the powder line in their reloading process, which will produce a cartridge that in a 4" barrel with a 125 gr bullet will hit about 1,000 FPS/278 ft lbs energy, and in a 2" barrel that comes to 900 FPS/225 ft lbs energy. But that's grade school ballistics, the .38 Special isn't even close to it's potential with run of the mill target ammo, as where 9mm is very close to it's max potential with target ammo. I would suggest learning your stuff some more because it's way off base.

Not as powerful as a 9mm. If you think so you don’t deserve this channel

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

Not sure what you are talking about.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

To get as much comparable energy and momentum as the round I am firing, you would need a 147 grain 9mm doing 1,195 fps. Please produce this round somewhere and show me an example of it. I'm sure my subscribers would like seeing it, i'll be exited to see it as well.

@GuyFawkes-cv9dc

6 жыл бұрын

Gun Sam _Revolver Aficionado_ yes that’s easy I have a mag full

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

What's easy with a full mag? You lost me.

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

I think what it is, is that most 9mm ammo is more powerful than virtually all .38 special ammo and it's a rare occurrence for the average pistol shooter to also be a revolver fanatic who is obsessed with the ins and outs of revolver cartridges like I am. To his defense I can see why he thinks i'm off my rocker for saying a .38 special is more powerful than a 9x19. The true statement should be that it "can be" more powerful than a 9mm if all of the conditions are right. I do encounter a lot of ammo box ninjas in some of my videos though, and the biggest misconception is that the 9mm somehow magically stays at 350 ft lbs energy in all guns while the .38 special loses "half" of it's energy in a snubby. The truth is that the average 9mm goes from 350 ft lbs in a 4" down to maybe 275 ft lbs in a pocket pistol, as where the .38 special+P goes from maybe 290 ft lbs in a 4" down to 225 ft lbs in a 2". When we are talking about pocket guns, we are talking cartridges that are a LOT closer in power than people usually think of them, and we are losing less overall potential energy in the .38+P from where it started down to the snub.

Good video Sam. I run 357 mag in both my home defense S&W 686 and my EDC S&W model 60. These Buffalo Bore cartridges might be a good alternative for the model 60 in that they carry a good punch with maybe a little less recoil

@GunSam

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I run 125 gr magnums in my home defense gun and 135+P in my carry .38. I want to love this round, but it really doesn't fill a role for me. The only gun i'd want to run it in is my 686, and for me i'll just go to magnums in that. Now if I had like a Colt Cobra, that's steel and relatively heavy and chambered in .38+P, this cartridge would be good in that gun.