which injector (port or direct) can be improved for more umphf? what power levels are the stock injectors capable of? instead of making more power, is it easier to make the car faster by modding other areas of the car (wheels/tires, suspension, driveshaft, etc) vs mucking with the engine tuning? You know, add lightness. 🏁

Did you map any of the engine and coolant temps during each pull? Would be interesting to understand what counts as "warmed up" vs "hot" to see what's optimal. Thoughts?

@wrxrcr1

Жыл бұрын

Yeah, oil coolant temps would have been great.

@bespokepaintprotection1308

Жыл бұрын

I can ask Mike for that info. He was logging all of that. Ultimately we did ensure that the car was up to a full operating temp before any WOT pulls and it never reached dangerous Oil or coolant temps but knowing exactly is of course helpful. I'll reply later if I can get the numbers.

@bespokepaintprotection1308

Жыл бұрын

Looks like coolant temps would always start in the 190's for each pull and climb a bit but maintain relatively well. Oil would get into the low 200's but nothing higher than what I have seen on the track. Unfortunately there is not data for trans or diff, not sure those even have sensors to log.

@professorxavier9991

Жыл бұрын

This is actually very interesting behavior. I'm no mechanic, but I've dabbled here and there in the past, and this is interesting, especially for track days, autocross, etc. This video was informative and something I know I will reference to in the future as I'm hopefully working on my BRZ 😅 I also came across another video that explained some of the internal engine changes that were made to the (FA24DB / FA24DG) to fix some of the known issues from the previous gen... Now I'm wondering if those changes are hindering power until the oil reaches a certain Temp/Viscosity 🤔 91 to 93 Octane is a good way of accounting for some of the gains but I don't think it accounts for all gains. It would be cool to see if changing the oil type or viscosity would allow for the power gains to appear in less amount of dyno pulls. Would it be beneficial to run a specific type of oil for track or autocross days that could get you that max stock WHP the fastest. Many interesting questions I hope.

@bespokepaintprotection1308

Жыл бұрын

@@professorxavier9991 Thanks. For some bonus info. One thing I probably didn't describe very well is that ultimately the car isn't really making any more power in any of the pulls. It's basically just getting more power to the actual ground as the car warms up and the parasitic loss dereases, and that is generally going to happen with any car. But the big takeaway is that when monitoring timing and fueling and airflow. There are no changes at all and even when Mike did make changes on the other car, once it was warm, it never increased power from the peak stock tune power at higher temps. So at the end of the day, the biggest lesson is that the stock tune on these cars with stock parts, is basically already maxxed out. I've actually talked to 2 other experienced Subaru tuners I know since this video was posted who said the same. They said once the stock tune reaches max power to the wheels, changing the tune with EcuTek doesn't nothing without additional mods. One tuner said he even pulled a degree of timing out and it didn't even lose power. So the Subaru map is quite aggressive right from the factory. So now we know that if I can make any power beyond that once I have mods on the car...we have a better idea what real value the mods have or the tuning changes associated to them.

What caught me off guard is when he said "we should see slightly more here too" when showing the "corrected figures". I'm no expert but every time I have shown corrected SAE figures the power figures were notably lower vs uncorrected.

Here in Australia, we run the recommended 98 octane (no ethanol) fuel, which is our premium. I wonder if it would make any more horsepower or not? Also, I understand the increase in power due to warm thinner fluids etc but why would that change the torque dip for example? I would think warm v cold power/torque graph lines would mirror each other regarding an increase or decrease in power or am I missing something?

@bespokepaintprotection1308

Жыл бұрын

It doesn't appear to be knock limited. Mike even played around with timing on a different car with no definite improvements once up to temp. So a different fuel likely wouldn't change the result significantly without mods. Now headers and mid-pipes + higher octane...that would probably gain a decent amount.

What baffles me is that if the car is only rated at 228 crank, and all dynos I see registers 203-223 wheel, that puts the car about 250, more or less. Understated, in short. Now, all the top speed figures and videos I see say 140-143 mph. No way! Realistically, at say 250 hp, 0.276 drag coefficient, 5th gear ratio at 1:1, 0.767 at 6th, the car can go near 160 mph. I have a feeling the car is "electronically" limited to about 6,000 rpm at 6th, not drag limited.

So they are rated at 228 crank but dyno 223? Maybe its 228 when cold minimum and 250 when hot 😀

@bespokepaintprotection1308

5 ай бұрын

RIght, haha. Ultimately every dyno is gonna read a bit different but the overall point of the video is to show that once you get the car up to tempt. The stock tune with stock parts is basically maxxed out. Many sports cars come from the factory with some meat left on the bone for tuning even with stock parts but Subaru squeezed everything out of the engine with the stock tune. On good fuel it doesn't knock much, so thats a good thing. 220+ whp on a 4 cylinder NA car is very good. It's up there with Honda. Several experienced Subaru tuners have played around with timing and fueling on these cars and without adding things like headers etc, they don't make any extra power from tuning. So the claimed power gains I have seen from just tuning on stock parts are not from tuning...they are just from temps increasing.

Hopefully mine gets slightly better. My cobb tuning kit will arrive on Saturday. And I'm going to install headers pretty soon as well 🙏

I think default IAM is 0.7 while you pulling the iam increase and power as well, ignition goes up

@bespokepaintprotection1308

Жыл бұрын

All of that is being monitored, no ignition changes are taking place in any of the pulls but certainly something for people to be aware of.

This is interesting find about this engine. It likes heat. Normal street driving operating oil temps on this car is 195, after a few pulls it jumps to 220-30 degrees F. What were temps on the 220hp pull?

@bespokepaintprotection1308

Жыл бұрын

The temps were the same as what you have seen, in the 220's. Ultimately what this tests has shown most is that on stock parts, the stock tune makes as much power as the car will make dependent on fuel quality. Even since doing this video, I have had other tuners confirm that playing around with timing etc does basically nothing once the car is warm. Now, with mods, we'll see but in stock form, the stock tune will make as much power as possible.

did you rip out the charcoal filter out at least

@bespokepaintprotection1308

Жыл бұрын

Good question but no, the point was to compare 100% stock. Also, from what I have seen, the filter likely doesn't actually make any power on an otherwise stock car. Not saying it isn't restrictive to flow at all but without supporting mods, that small restriction is likely irrelevant. Most tests I have seen with before and after of removing the filter are not very valid and also mostly ignore the thing we are pointing out in this video. I.E. The supposed gain may just be due to repeated pulls. I see lots of people do a pull, then rip out the filter, and do another pull and claim that made more power but there is no actual data to show that it wouldn't have done the same thing that happened in this video. Did the car make a few HP from ripping out the filter or just because they did subsequent pulls? That would be a good thing to test. Do a few pulls to hit the highest power possible like we did here....then remove the filter and do the same thing, but COBB can't make a video doing that without getting in trouble for removing a regulated emissions device. So some one else will have to do it.

@ScottyBeMore

3 ай бұрын

well if you put on an intake that's the same thing as removing the filter does the mean you can't use them now??@@bespokepaintprotection1308

@K03sport

Ай бұрын

does removing the pre-filter add any power, or is it more about noise?

@ScottyBeMore

11 күн бұрын

@@K03sport it is said its the reason why non USA models have more hp, not much but in a light car every hp counts

Couldnt it be programmed to not push the engine to its max power until its at the designed operating temps?

@bespokepaintprotection1308

8 ай бұрын

ECUs do have the ability to make real time adjustments based on variables like temps etc but Mike had all of the ECU management monitors pulled up and logged to view that behavior in real time and to review afterward and there were no changes to timing or fueling etc between pulls.

when you say 100% stock did you pull the carbon filter out might have more power on the table after warm up with that being said one more time no carbon filter..... please

@bespokepaintprotection1308

3 ай бұрын

Sorry for the late reply. The carbon trap was still there. The car was exactly how it came from the factory.

Don't you want to be in the 1:1 gear?

@bespokepaintprotection1308

Жыл бұрын

Generally speaking yes, but with a car that doesn't make much power and would be a very long pull, 5th gear (which I believe is the 1:1 on this car) would not be a good idea. So 4th is the better overall option. As long as all pulls are done in the same gear then there no harm on the test.

@pseudonym5872

Жыл бұрын

Fourth gear is standard for 86/BRZ dyno pulls. Every time I've paid attention to anybody's dyno run when they show the gauges they're in fourth gear - even years ago with first-gen FR-S/86/BRZ.

So you add an oil cooler with a 180 thermostat and you end up with less power - lol.

@bespokepaintprotection1308

11 ай бұрын

On the street that could actually be true...haha. But the temps it made peak power at would be the same on the track even with a cooler. It never got dangerously high.

I would say the Dyno is NOT giving reliable numbers - NOONE except you got these numbers without touching intake, engine & exhaust

Something is NOT right - you made ~225 WHP withOUT any changes - and ALL other guys make that with changes !!!