I have a 2020 Honda Pilot. I live in Canada. My driveway is at a 14% incline. Last year I had a few days where the driveway was a sheet of ice. The Pilot made it up from a standstill position. I was blown away. I kept the garage door behind me open in case I slid backwards. Didn’t happen. We just traded in our 2013 BMW X1 for a new Subaru Forester Wilderness. So far I love the vehicle. Both systems are amazing. Great video. Great comparison.

You're becoming my favorite automotive channel! I love these comparison/offroad videos. Keep up the great work.

@poplaurentiu4148

Жыл бұрын

Well one point is proved that he test both these cross-overs on empty (driver only without any other persons onboard luggage & stuff) so who goes up on such trails without at least minimum camping gear with something to cook dinner or other stuff like a 20L gasoline canister Maxtrax boards.. that should be next test otherwise any of these prove useless for such trips in nature and potential customers should get something better like that Toyota TRD pick-up..

@douglasdever6134

Жыл бұрын

@@poplaurentiu4148 Agree. It does give a decent comparison between two different unloaded vehicles; granted some might have a better suspension to not drop down on clearance. But cannot expect all possibilities in any review. Personally, I still watch many reviews just out of curiosity. But I usually watch with sound off; much better.

@juanalmos1959

Жыл бұрын

When city folks fall for the off road commercials but never off road….ever

Woohoo another Wilderness vid! These videos played a large part in our decision to purchase the Outback Wilderness. As always, great video.

@DrPeterVenkman

2 жыл бұрын

Loving my new Wilderness. Very capable vehicle 🖤

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

I’d love to get my hands on any wilderness model, crosstrek coming, but my wallet says, nope…hands off 😂. Amazing vehicle

@DrPeterVenkman

2 жыл бұрын

It had me by the heart strings the moment I saw it

@James-il3tq

2 жыл бұрын

Offroads well for a CVT station wagon 👍

@alozano793

2 жыл бұрын

@@martinr8278 Yeah crazy seeing the price jumps cars in general have taken. Glad I got my '19 Forester back when I did. Im seeing it used for more than I paid!

I have quickly fallen in love with your channel! The consistency of terrain from video to video and the side by side comparisons in identical conditions really show the real world capabilities of these vehicles. You are a valuable resource for people trying to decide what their next vehicle should be.

Thanks as always for the new comparison video! FYI - the fastest way to engage X-Mode is to push the front camera button. That’ll bring up the X-Mode screen immediately.

@yetiman72

2 жыл бұрын

you'd think he'd know that by now

@MicajahMcCurry

2 жыл бұрын

Didn't know that one but I like it!

@nitromeda

2 жыл бұрын

I'll stay with the physical button in my 2017 Forester DIESEL 😍

@elijahcavin2408

2 жыл бұрын

@@nitromeda I'd love a diesel forester.

Thank you for a wonderful comparison. Completely transparent about the difference in tires and great camera work. I will add how spoiled I've become with these videos. My KZread settings started on 1080p and I'm thinking to myself how grainy the video looked. I quickly changed to 4K and all is good. Just shows how far these content providers have pushed the quality of video production and expectations.

My onyx XT has the dual x mode and it’s unbelievable were it will go and how much ground clearance it has. It’s impressed me and I came out of a 2020 power wagon.

I love your Honda vs Subaru vs Toyota vs Hyundai videos because it really highlights their AWD tech.

I’ve have had a 2021 passport now for a year, almost 12,000 miles on it. I try to take it off road anywhere I can, and I think it does fairly well. I will admit the very large 20 inch rims, and smaller sidewall tires can become an issue if you’re concerned with rocks hitting the rims. As far as overheating the 4 wheel drive system, that has never happened in my vehicle, yet anytime I go off road I put it in sport mode and 1st gear. First gear in this vehicle is a launch gear and a crawl gear, and is only ever accessed during sport mode. If you put it in sport and manual mode, it’ll stay in first gear and you have a very powerful low crawler gear. This vehicle is nothing like a truck with a dedicated low gear transfer case, but definitely never had these overheating issues and I would say I push my vehicle just like this guy does, I constantly have traction issues where the all-wheel drive system is working for several minutes on end and never over heated, probably because it was in 1st gear. My only real complaint with this vehicle going off road is it’s articulation, it has very poor articulation and you will always have one wheel off the ground if not two. This means that all-wheel drive system always has to work constantly and with on road tires that already get horrible traction, you get even less traction when you only have two or three of those tires to pull you up an incline on a loose surface. Expect a lot of tires spin if you are on an articulated surface. Ground clearance can be a little nerve-racking, but it really makes it a little more sportier, and by sportier I mean for the sport of going off road; you get to get out of your vehicle and constantly look at what you’re doing versus just going through it so easily as you would with a TRD pro or something like that. It makes Off-roading more fun on lighter trails that actually exist in the real world, and it makes you and the machine have to work harder.

@JonDZ_Adventuring

2 жыл бұрын

Andrew, I monitor my transmission temps with a Scangauge 2. Even before I installed the OEM transcooler in my 2019 Passport EX-L, by the time I hit 210F, other Subarus are at 270F with an CVT temp light. I drove up the 13,114 Imogene pass trail in Colorado and my temp didn’t go past 222F. I drove up a snow mountain pass plowing through 2 feet of snow a few days old, and once my ZF9 hit 230F, I let it rest for a little while. The heat warning that popped up in this video was for the rear differential, for those times you high center on mud and the wheels spin like crazy! You can see in the footage that Ryan high sides on the driver side of the Passport. Because the ZF9 doesn’t stall like the TR690HT CVT, the tires will spin and get the rear diff warm. The heat warning doesn’t put the transmission into limp mode. The OBW doesn’t have differential sensors. It’s CVT goes into limp mode at 245F and the CVT temp light doesn’t come on until 270F, which is well beyond damage.

@terence4427

2 жыл бұрын

@Andrew. Nice perspective. I hate how people who've never driven a Passport trash it.

@rdh5961

Жыл бұрын

Great review. Thank you

@rdh5961

Жыл бұрын

@@JonDZ_Adventuring excellent info!

@Williams-mp7vz

11 ай бұрын

What’s with the book bro?. Get a life. 🤫

Love the review and the channel Ryan. I've got an OBW with the added optional plates for the fuel tank and differential. I've taken on it on some pretty gnarly trails this past winter - deep ruts, mud, snow and rocks. I've put a pretty significant dent in the front skid plate as result, but overall have found the OBW super capable. I was cross shopping with a 4Runner and Grand Cherokee (last generation), and for my needs the OBW was the ideal balance between on-road comfort and off-road capability. The vast majority of drivers out there will not come close to fully utilizing it's off-road capabilities, and I think it's probably one of the best winter cars out there hands down. It's sort of a benchmark for unibody off-road vehicles I think, so really appreciate you continually comparing it against trucks like the 4Runner but also crossovers like the Passport.

As always Ryan, appreciate the video! I purchased the Honda Passport because of your in depth review on the Honda I-VTM4 system, and the success *the* Hondas had on TFL. I replaced my 2015 Subaru FXT, and it was a world of difference. Mine is modified with 12 inches of minimum clearance and 16 inches of rocker clearance (compared to the Outback wilderness with 9.5” minimum and 11” of rocker). Muddy and loose terrain isn’t a twin clutch rear differentials forte. It’s really all about how much momentum you can muster up and just send it, and that’s where the midrange torque from the *turbocharged* Subaru came in handy. *Replace* the muddy hill with rocks, and the 20.4:1 crawl ratio in Honda will enable it to crawl up, where it just wouldn’t be possible at all on the Outback wilderness (less crawl ratio at 15.5:1 and a torque converter that has an early stall speed). As far as tires, the Yokohama Geolanders are not very aggressive. I would still consider them an all terrain tire, so they don’t give them as much of an advantage over the Honda. Regarding the AWD overheating message, the transmission does not not stall like a CVT, so when you press the gas, the wheels will keep on spinning, triggering an AWD message hot message. As you mentioned in your original 2019 Honda Passport review video, the first ever AWD vehicle to do your cross cut hill challenge, the heat message never put the Honda into limp mode. The message is there to warn you to not spin the tires 😃. Ground clearance is definitely an issue! The outback has more center line clearance and breakover angle. The Passport has better maximum, approach, departure.

@drivingsports

2 жыл бұрын

If we had better clearance on the Honda, and a good bash plate, it would be much more suited to off-road adventures. Like you said, you just need to be able to "send it"... and with 8.1-inches of clearance that's not a good choice... yet. Really looking forward to next year's model. I hope they don't choke on the execution.

@JonDZ_Adventuring

2 жыл бұрын

@@drivingsports on a steep loose obstacle, there’s no choice except to send it. Where the Passport would excel is on crawling obstacles, but stock ground clearance just wouldnt allow for it. Outback wilderness CVT and open diffs wouldn’t allow for it either. To be honest, I’m disappointed with the Outback wilderness, but I am impressed with the Forester wilderness. It’s the right price, the right version of the CVT. Sarah N Tuned tested both vehicles, and the Outback wilderness failed, Forester Wilderness conquered.

@thisguy2659

2 жыл бұрын

@@JonDZ_Adventuring there you are. I know you’d be all over this video. When are you going to head up there to the do the Washington overland trail and maybe a video vs his Maverick?

@JonDZ_Adventuring

2 жыл бұрын

@@thisguy2659 ha! The base model Maverick with no terrain modes did a bit better than the Outback Wilderness. Not sure why so few people saw that @drivingsportstv video. I’d love to visit Ryan’s test hill and would be honored to test it vs. the base model Ford Maverick 😃.

@thisguy2659

2 жыл бұрын

@@JonDZ_Adventuring lol I completely agree. I think that Maverick with those more aggressive tires are something special…. Fingers crossed from a fan of both you.

I got my white wilderness last week, thanks for providing the useful info that helps people to select cars 👍

Ryan! Amazing video! Are you guys considering using the Forrester Wilderness on this course as well? I love the approach angles on it better the OBW and would love to see how capable it is!

I’m rooting for Honda with this upcoming ideration of the the trail sport, but I feel like the overheating of the i-vtm system is a major shortcoming, hope it’s something that is addressed in this next mode year.

@terence4427

2 жыл бұрын

The trailer hitch package from the factory comes with the cooling accessory.

We took our Outback on a road trip to Nova Scotia. It burned a quart of oil during our 2,600 mile trip. The dealer says that's normal. I don't think a car with 84,000 miles shouldn't burn a quart in 2,600 miles. During total ownership: multiple headlights burned out, headlight plastic fogged over, airbags recalled, rotators warped, dead battery, backup camera assembly rusted and stopped working. My Honda HRV with 172,000 doesn't burn a drop of oil. I would take the Honda engine and transmission over the Subaru, and add skid plates and tires on my own. IMO it doesn't matter if you can do the trail with slightly less effort, without easily purchased upgrades, if the car will spend an equal amount of time at the dealership or stopped along the highway on the way.

@Moistnmeaty90

Жыл бұрын

There’s two types of Subaru owners in the comments. One that praises Subaru for everything and find no faults. They believe their vehicles are made by God himself and know no issues. When you mention Subaru’s with issues they immediately turn defensive and bully you with anecdotes and dismissals about your negative experience. The 2nd kind is you and I. We’ve had Subaru’s and didn’t particularly have the best experience. We use logic, data and history to give fair and accurate assessments of our experiences with Subaru. What happens? The first type of Subaru owners excoriate our comments as if we made it all up.

@szuberi

4 ай бұрын

Which year outback you had? Any modifications and what type of usage? Some details would be helpful. Subarus overall are very reliable with minimal issues.

@szuberi

4 ай бұрын

@@Moistnmeaty90 Not every subaru owner is like that and you should take social media commentary with a grain of salt. A lot of ppl are just negative on social media. Subarus can have problems of course but generally they are overall reliable cars.

@myplaxismodelisbetterthanyours

3 ай бұрын

I've had nothing but issues with several Subies. The burning oil thing was a fun one with my wife's Forester. Quart of oil every month on the dot.

I have a 2015 Outback now that I’m pretty happy with and have had great success doing some mild off road trails in the pine barren here in NJ, but it’s only the 2.4 engine and lacking in power. I’m definitely leaning towards trading in for the Outback Wilderness. I’m really looking forward to the better power and acceleration and really think the trail camera will help out in choosing a safe line through the trickier parts of the roads. Thanks for the great, informative video. I only recently learned of the Passport Trailsport and was very interested, but now I’m sure I want to stick with the Outback.

Love your channel, been watching for a long time. I have the OBW and love watching you test it against other vehicles.

I addressed the two biggest issues with my Honda Ridgeline. Ground clearance and traction. Put a 2 inch lift and all terrain tires. It's a lot more capable now. I-vtm4 is pretty capable. I love the new Subaru wilderness, but I would have to have a proper transmission not that CVT.

@njfreeskier

2 жыл бұрын

What tires did you go with?

@jonathanisenhour7923

2 жыл бұрын

CVT ruins it

it is awesome to see all the hard work and effort you put into all of these videos. walking up and down these hills back and forth to set up every camera and shovel each hole whilst mowing the grass and building each road. If you need an apprentice it could be cool for an apprenticeship/summer job/internship Uncle Ryan 😂

Thanks for this video! You’re giving me a chance to decide on what colour Subaru Wilderness I want (pre-order anyway) and 2023 to boot at this point.

Thank you for your comparison and review videos on the outback wilderness. I especially enjoyed the both 4runner comparison videos. I've had my wilderness for about a month now and I am really loving the feel and drive. I plan on taking up to Revelstoke for some camping in a few months. I've seen a lot of comments and reviews where people aren't too thrilled with the plastic cladding. But I actually like it especially dressed in all black. Now I just want to decide whether to swap to bigger breaks and a different set of wheels and tires. Although I do like the factory wheels

Awesome video! Can we expect a Mazda CX-50 off road review soon? 😎👀💜

I have an outback wilderness and have put it in some deep water and very deep snow and it has just muscled its way out. I’ve been very impressed with it and this new Honda I’ve seen a lot of but never on trails. Your videos are awesome and that Honda is impressive. A little disappointed with that awd system overheating so fast. The obw that I have hasn’t shown any overheating issues yet so a nicer transmission cooler for the Honda and a better set of tires I feel would make them almost identical. Love your stuff!

I think my 2002 Subaru Impreza Outback could run this trail fine with bald tires and the "check engine" light on. Easily.

@MicajahMcCurry

2 жыл бұрын

Shots fired!

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

You would be right. 🏆 Haven’t seen the expert off-road comment on this one!

@bakedinspiration

2 жыл бұрын

Bro the 2002 Impreza outback sport was literally my first Subaru. The feels on this comment hit me hard. Still miss those fog lights.

@Travisj9935

10 ай бұрын

I think a Fwd cuv could 🤣🤣🤣

I want that Honda! Well, next year's version. Although you have to ask, will they continue incrementally upgrading it each year until the next generation? For example, the Passport and Ridgeline are still using the 9spd transmission, but other Hondas are using their newer, better 10spd. Will that new transmission make its way over? How about the new infotainment setup currently found in other Honda models? Anyway, I hope that the TrailSport package gets the love it deserves...and that it gets applied to the Ridgeline as well, instead of that horrendous "HPD" branding misfire!

@JRs-guitars

2 жыл бұрын

By the time they're done with upgrades each year it'll be like a Honda 4runner Frankenstein thing...

@allecquintero9525

2 жыл бұрын

Tbh both transmissions are both junk I work at Honda and I think passport is more overpriced pilot you just lose the 3rd with passport and ridge lines have different transmissions then the passport

@timflint25

2 жыл бұрын

@@allecquintero9525 I'm pretty sure they both use the 9spd ZF trans

@k20z3allmotorFTW

2 жыл бұрын

@@allecquintero9525 the zf9 spd has been solid now they had programming issues in 16-17

@JonDZ_Adventuring

2 жыл бұрын

@@k20z3allmotorFTW even the old ZF9s are good. They had issues with improperly assembly and issues with sensors and crimped wires. People that had lemons, had lemons. But I drive up tall peaks that my old Subaru and the Outback wilderness simply couldn’t get to without overheating while my buddies 2017 Pilot makes it out without taking breaks. Btw, did you figure out how to regear the Hondas?

I love my Wilderness, great vid man!

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

Great choice!! 🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆

I would never have expected the Passport to do as well as it did.

@martinr8278

Жыл бұрын

Carousing through other KZread videos here and there and the testing of Honda, HRV, CRV‘s, and passports, quite honestly. The majority seem to be very disappointed in the Honda line. It’s mostly summed up as Honda promises very little for a lot of money. The quality has definitely diminished, unfortunately with Hondas I think the only one that emerges out of the three as being somewhat favorable, are the CRV‘s, quite honestly I wouldn’t touch the passport or HRV given the choice I would keep to a CRV out of those three

@Moistnmeaty90

Жыл бұрын

@@martinr8278 you’re exactly right. Honda’s traditionally used to be a solid value and phenomenal reliability. If you wanted luxury you’d move up to the Acura line. Which was only slightly more luxurious. I think the real winner here is Subaru. They’ve not had the best reputation for reliability over the years, and while I’m not convinced it’s bulletproof I feel it’s a step in the right direction. However, the interiors are excellent and the value proposition is spectacular. Subaru knows that undercutting the competition by 5 grand will win over buyers. If Subaru can just put buyers in seats, they might be able to convince them to be a return buyer. Something that Subaru is probably the worlds best at. Loyal buyers.

@Williams-mp7vz

11 ай бұрын

Why not ? Torque vectoring is the best out there.

@jeremyhuntington1

4 ай бұрын

@@martinr8278the crv is the worst . You want the CVT trans? Shows how much you actually know about the Honda line lol

@martinr8278

4 ай бұрын

@@Moistnmeaty90 agreed, but I also know getting with an Acura, or even a Lexus, an Audi they’re are going to be hard on the pocketbook. I used to own a CRV, 2010, it was OK but that was inundated with a lot of recalls. Very happy with my 2016 Forrester, it was definitely more of an upgrade from what I had.

I had a passport the year they came out and out of all the brand new vehicles I have purchased it was the only one I have regretted buying. There were many annoyances I won't list here but the final straw was getting the all-wheel drive overheating message as seen in the video. All I did was go to an empty boat landing parking lot after a heavy snow to test out how the various drive modes felt in the deep snow and after three loops around and beginning the fourth I got the all-wheel drive overheating message. Absolutely unacceptable. I now have the Outback wilderness and have spent literally hours driving through bumper deep snow with not a peep from the vehicle.

@nightryder21

2 жыл бұрын

That's cause it doesn't have a warning light. it won't tell you when you are overheating.

@user-oe7pr5ww2m

Жыл бұрын

@@nightryder21 Subaru has the 4wd system overheated warning indicator. Why subaru 4wd doesn't get overheated easily, because the 4wd coupling system is inside of the huge transmission case so there is a plenty of oil to keep the system cool.

Yet again no one comes close to putting the AWD systems of these automakers thru proper testing. No, I do not want to see the Subaru nor Passport going over boulders but I do want to see them doing real world obstacles. Both performed great. Looks like you would get a great AWD system with both. Kudos to you Sir and these two Automakers.

@nightryder21

2 жыл бұрын

Go look at JonDz on KZread I'm sure no one has stressed their awd on the passport.

Excellent comparison! Both were impressive, the Trailsport because it only had all-season tires and the Outback because it has a CVT. I do like the look of the Subaru wagon, to me the Passport looks like a minivan from far away lol. If you haven't done one already, and if possible, I would love to see a comparison of the Toyota Tacoma Pro/Off-Road vs the Nissan Frontier Pro-4x. Thanks for making these videos they are very informative and entertaining!

@JonDZ_Adventuring

2 жыл бұрын

Hey Kensai77 👋 we need a proper test though, and not a steep muddy hill where the only thing that will overcome it is enough momentum. You know what the Passport will do 😉, and you watched my videos, so you’ve seen the shortcomings of the subaru CVT. I feel like Honda was done dirty, and the comment section has a lot of confused people thinking the transmission overheated.

@kensai77

2 жыл бұрын

@@JonDZ_Adventuring oh yeah I've watched so many videos including yours on Hondas and Subarus. I've owned a 2000 Passport and a 2018 Forester so I'm a fanboy of both brands. If I had to choose one for off-roading I'd definitely go with a Passport strictly because it doesn't have a CVT. In this review the all-season tires definitely hampered the Passport but it did well regardless. I'm excited to see what upgrades the 2023 Trailsport will include. Hopefully it will have more clearance, A/T tires, and skid plates. I love your videos man, you are demonstrating the capabilities of the Honda Passport so please keep them coming!

Surprised there was a heating warning for a an awd system. Definitely Subaru would be the best bang for your buck at this point

@saramae9878

2 жыл бұрын

Kia/Hyundai competing cars do it too. It completely made the choice for me when I was car shopping. I don't drive crazy, but it does get very hot here and the last thing I need is to sit on some forest road waiting for a hot car to cool off in 100F+ heat.

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

Good choice. 🏆🏆. Surprised Honda even did that but sounds like it may be poised for more problems down the road

@slandshark

2 жыл бұрын

@@saramae9878 Ford Escape also overheated, as did the Jeep Compass in another recent video comparing them all in simple offroad conditions (I think one more car also overheated the AWD system). I don't get how they can sell AWD vehicles that can't handle a few seconds of AWD driving conditions. The guy in the video above fails to mention that yes the Honda made it, but imagine losing your AWD system in the middle of a muddy spot in the apex of a soft dirt turn...you'd get stuck and may not be able to make it out.

@nightryder21

2 жыл бұрын

When Subaru gives you an overheating sign its way too late. Honda is more conservative. And also the overheating sign was for the rear differential. Just a quick cool down needed.

@saramae9878

2 жыл бұрын

@@slandshark Well I expected it from Ford lol, was just really surprised by the Compass. I mean it says "Jeep!" and "Trail!" on the side, you'd think it could keep up with a little bit. I was out in some similar but less severe terrain the other day and barely thought about it in my Crosstrek, it just puttered along. Would have really sucked to have done it in the Compass, some of it was pretty loose stuff.

Pressing the front facing camera button automatically switches to the X mode selection. Only saves a few seconds but still handy

Honda's IVTM-4 is not only for off-road. It also shines on the road when cornering where it prevents understeering as the power moves from side to side wheel. That subaru's AWD does not have.

@drivingsports

2 жыл бұрын

Yes, we've covered that in the past, esp. on the Acura vehicles. This was specifically focusing on off-road capabilities.

@eliseojrmallari6599

2 жыл бұрын

@@drivingsports you're one of the best auto reviewers!

@alozano793

2 жыл бұрын

No t9rque vectoring on this Wilderness? I feel it come into play on my '19 Forester Sport. Corners great. Just no feel in the steering sadly.

I'd love a real TrailSport CR-V to compare to the Wilderness Forester.

Thanks for the videos Ryan! A suggestion for a future video: it would be nice to compare subarus from different years (i.e forester SF, SG, SH, SJ…) and see differences between using 4H/4L, x-mode in it’s different versions, etc. Thanks!

What a beast the Subaru!! Got the exact same and love it!

@James-il3tq

2 жыл бұрын

Does well offroading for station wagon with CVT 👍

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

Better then the other cvts that are out there. Subaru engineers know what they’re doing!

Good video for Subaru folks.

2024 Outback Wilderness here same black color. Love my Outback

I'm impressed by the Honda. Proper tires and an additional inch of clearance would make this thing quite capable.

@artilleryisbetter

Жыл бұрын

and it would overheat regardless because of the inferior transverly mounted engine design

@du3223

Жыл бұрын

I've got the 2019 Passport and am trading it in for the Outback Wilderness on Monday. My Honda has been nothing but trouble. Mostly electrical gremlins and transmission issues. In the 2.5 years i've owned it the vehicle has spent more than a month in total with the dealer as they replaced wiring (three times) and worked to fix the transmission. At least the trade-in value is only $2k less than I paid for it.

@martinr8278

Жыл бұрын

I’d stay with Subaru Don’t slip on those trails too much, your little comes on for overheating. 😂😂😂. Too many Honda issues

TFL watches this with a blind fold on... if you know you know...

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

Oh man…… so loving this comment. 🏆🏆🏆🏆. Blindfolded, muted ears and lots of humming “Subaru can’t…Subaru can’t” lol. TFL just generic and subjective. Don’t waste my time watching

@PLSeeK85

Жыл бұрын

TFL has definitely lost its luster with me. Loving this Channel now!!

@Travisj9935

10 ай бұрын

Really? How do you fake the awd roller tests? You Subaru people are a special breed! 😂😂😂

@MarcGaerlan

7 ай бұрын

@@Travisj9935 kzread.info/dash/bejne/e4iK2duneZOzdbw.htmlsi=YBOZ0Lkn1-GjITtG Huh. Imagine that.

Outback Wilderness owner here. They're good. Insanely good at everything. Love it!

@DL.8798

Жыл бұрын

what are you thoughts about reability over a 10 years period? should i be concern compared to a Rav4?

@Tokey_The_Bear

Жыл бұрын

@@DL.8798 I would be suspicious. The engine is promising, with very few failures when maintained correctly but they require very high quality oil and frequent changes. The transmission I have concerns with. But all said and done it is a fantastic vehicle in every aspect.

@DL.8798

Жыл бұрын

@@Tokey_The_Bear Thank you for taking the time to share your experience.

@Tokey_The_Bear

Жыл бұрын

@@DL.8798 Absolutely. As a mechanical engineer I have a tendency to over-analyze and prefer simpler designs for reliability but I find myself ignoring that for the OBW. It's just a fun, pure, enjoyable overlander.

Thank you for always posting quality vehicle reviews. Not just a review of the vehicle but real scenarios as well. I have been looking at the Subaru Outback Wilderness for the last year now and you have helped me with my decision making as I was also looking at the Trailsport. Definitely interested to see what Honda has in store to add to their Trailsport “appearance package” in 2023. Saw the 2023 Subaru Outback in NYC and it’s looking a little more aggressive.

@JonDZ_Adventuring

2 жыл бұрын

The trailsport or even a base model 2019 Passport sport (they’re all the same) is substantially more capable. I drove Subarus for 6 years. In this video, the Trailsport gets a 15 second heat warning ( no limp mode) for the rear diff. The outback wilderness doesn’t have a heat sensor for the rear diff, and the CVT doesn’t show a temp light until 270F, however it goes into limp mode around 245F. Imo, it’s unethical to put a vehicle into limp mode before a heat warning. Watch Ryan’s video about the Ford Maverick vs. the Outback Wilderness. They try to drive up a simple hill at crawl speeds. The Maverick with its automatic transmission with a 17.9:1 crawl ratio does better than the Outback Wilderness with a CVT and a 15.5:1 crawl ratio. The Honda Trailsport has a 20.4:1 crawl ratio and a rear LSD. It wouldn’t even break a sweat on that same obstacle they did. I have yet to meet anyone that ever had an automatic transmission fail, and I meet Atleast 1000 people a year. I already know someone that has had the outback wilderness with a failed CVT, and Atleast 50 friends with failed CVTs over my 7 years in the overlanding community. I don’t expect you to believe me, just watch other videos and don’t believe any hype.

@SpodeyOdey

2 жыл бұрын

@@JonDZ_Adventuring I’ve been watching your videos!!! I’m honored that you took time out to comment on my comment. I almost went with a Honda Passport after watching a few of your videos and seeing all the work you’ve done to your passport. If I had the knowledge and skills you had to build a Trailsport Passport like yours, I would! I’m still researching and watching as many videos as I can to get a true understanding of all the overland/soft roadie beasts out there. I won’t be making a decision on a vehicle until the market and chips get back to normal… if ever. Thank you for reminding me of the Maverick vs Outback video though; honestly, after watching that video I had some doubts.. so thank you!

@JonDZ_Adventuring

2 жыл бұрын

@@SpodeyOdey im just an active member of the overlanding community that is passionate about contributing to the knowledge base. When I see a video like this (or actually a series of videos) where top soft roaders like the Jeep Trailhawks and the Passport get “AWD” heat warnings, I begin to wonder if it’s a coincidence that they’re being compared to CVT subarus? I’m just glad this channel showed the Maverick vs. Outback Wilderness on a simple test. They both struggled a little, but because the Maverick has a traditional automatic, it made it up with no terrain modes. Vehicles like the Bronco Sport badlands and Passport with a rear LSD wouldn’t break a sweat. Back in 2019, when the CVT in my Forester XT died, I actually set out to buy a Toyota Tacoma, but I couldn’t fit into one properly, so it was a no go. Nowadays, there’s a lot more options. The Nissan Frontier looks good! It has a 9 speed transmission and most importantly for me, it has a bigger cabin than the Tacoma. Also, stay away from a turbo engine if you could. I owned 3 of them back to back and they were nothing but problems. Fun, but it’s pay to play. My WRX had the engine blow up twice (I did but it used though), and my FXT had the turbo impeller go bad, valve spring issues, sensor problems. If the CVT lasted, I’m sure something catastrophic would have happened to the engine. All my vehicles moving forward must have a normally aspirated engine and a traditional automatic transmission. The Passport has been great, it’s an excellent daily driver. It’s comfortable, sporty, and at the same time very substantial, but just like this video showed, without more ground clearance, it could run into problems. anyways, the truck options (Maverick/Frontier) are compelling choices. Good luck picking your perfect adventure mobile.

Ryan, after watching this episode, I am surprised how capable the Honda was but given the price difference of $6000, had i not bought that Volvo XC for my wife, I Would have purchased the Subaru.

@terence4427

2 жыл бұрын

In my area the price of these vehicles are comparable.

If love to see the Forester Wilderness on these particular obstacles!

Thanks for making these awesome videos! I think once the passport gets an interior update and maybe a more wagonesque (if it follows the HRV trend) design it will be a real contender.

The Passport is a decent looking vehicle but is already expensive at $44k. How much more will it cost next year when they actually make it a proper Trailsport?

@allecquintero9525

2 жыл бұрын

That’s base price dealers mark up even more then that around 50k

@jamesbritt4637

2 жыл бұрын

@@allecquintero9525 I bought 2022 Trailsport at sticker price a couple months ago. Many dealers are currently charging more though.

@terence4427

2 жыл бұрын

@@jamesbritt4637 . What do you thank about the TS thus far? I'm thinking about getting one.

@user-oe7pr5ww2m

Жыл бұрын

44,000 plus customize cost means you better buy a 4runner🤣

You do a very good and fair review! Thanks!

I had an 08 Forester n/a, really liked the AWD but the milage was terrible, was all I could do to push it to 300k kilometres. Head gaskets and ovaled valve guides oil leaks. Honda from here on out!

Thank you for a wonderful comparison. Subaru is the best of the year (Consumer Report)

@martinr8278

Жыл бұрын

Not too surprising there, over the last couple years it just appears that Subarus are becoming better and better, Hondas are becoming less reliable, quality is diminishing

once again, the images are gorgeous and, once again, it was really interesting to watch! kudos!!

you guys need to do this again with both have the same tires, then it will be really awd vs awd

Very informative report from an enthusiastic reviewer who is obviously having fun. Hard to beat.

That's how you drive a Subaru !!! 🏆

I’ve been researching for my next vehicle & narrowed it down to the Forester & Passport. I have no intentions of doing any extreme off roading. Was impressed with my test drive of the forester & going today to drive the passport. Thank you for your video!✌🏽🇨🇦

@MrFoxracingred

Жыл бұрын

I was not a huge fan of the forrester. Outback just felt alot better

@miket.4374

Жыл бұрын

@@MrFoxracingred Essentially the same platform, same vehicle but the Outback isn’t as boxy, has better style.

@MrFoxracingred

Жыл бұрын

@@miket.4374 yes I do prefer the suv style but I felt there was more cabin noise, not as smooth a ride? Idk maybe because it was a 2019 and the out back was a 21. I definitely recommend driving an outback first if you haven't.

@miket.4374

Жыл бұрын

@@MrFoxracingred I drove the outback and it was really nice. I’ve decided to go with the Honda Passport mainly because of the larger size and cargo room. I’m a bigger guy and I still have use for more cargo space✌🏽

Loved the video, but on my opinion both did excellent, but the Subaru has some advantages that are important, ground clearance and under body protection

@alanmay7929

2 жыл бұрын

The Subaru also has a significant disadvantage which is the CVT gearbox, I wish Subaru made regular automatic or manual gearbox

@rodneydecormier1504

2 жыл бұрын

@@alanmay7929 but the system DIDN’T overheat and the traditional setup did. So…

@alanmay7929

2 жыл бұрын

@@rodneydecormier1504 the Honda system is probably not well tuned/cooled for prolonged use lol….

@saramae9878

2 жыл бұрын

@@alanmay7929 I think that is their point. The Subaru was designed for such a use, the Honda wasn't.

@RichardVac

2 жыл бұрын

@@alanmay7929 it's strange that Honda has not corrected the overheating issue, this transmissions overheat too quick, can you imagine if it was summer and 120° outside, this Honda would be overheating before the trail, the older models did the same

At this price-point, the only reason NOT to get a a 4WD package truck (e.g. Tacoma TRD Off Road, Frontier Pro 4X) or 4WD body-on-frame SUV (4Runner or Wrangler Unlimited) is efficiency, ride quality, and perceived reliability (Jeep). Other than snow covered pavement (skiing trips), by the time you NEED 4WD, you are going to need the clearance. Often times, clearance on a 2WD truck will get you a lot farther than any trick AWD system off pavement.

@KTMcaptain

2 жыл бұрын

You can drive 4wd part time on snow covered pavement. Just like you can drive in part time on Moab slick rock which gives huge grip. . I completely agree, though 24/26mpg from both of these aren’t much better than a Wrangler at all. I’d say it’s more up to the comfort you seek daily driving.

What about CVT vs Torque Converter, difference in longevity and heat tolerance?

Anyone else play where’s Waldo with Nick when he isnt in the actual video but you spot him in the back 🤣

If you scrape a Subaru into a rock by accident, they won’t send you press cars. This almost turned into a “TFL Misadventure” 😂 Great video as always!

@drivingsports

2 жыл бұрын

We've known the Subaru folks for almost 20 years and very well know their position on scratches. (Side note: they specifically cleared the use of the test car for us to use in this test aware that scratches could happen.)

I can tell you 💯 certainty that if the Hondas awd system was overheated in that little bit of work it put in…. It’s going to be failing point and huge repairs later on down the road with just regular usage. Looks like if you used it on that little feeble trail more than twice a year it would completely fail within a year

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

I wondered the same thing. Down the road I’m thinking there might be with Honda. I hear of previous Subaru owners losing their cvts by 60,000 miles, not sure if they know much about Subarus or really taking them to extreme points that they shouldn’t even be doing. Subaru seems to be on a good path here with their cvts in the wilderness models and I’ll stick with them over Honda. I’ve seen a massive amount of “clarifying” info on the passport in other comments. When there are that many comments, I have to wonder are they trying to convince themselves that Honda is a better buy all around by commenting on every thought? Idk, SMH just enjoy the time in any vehicle at this point. They should have thrown a Toyota in there, then how would these compare!?

Love the Subarus style. Much prefer it over the Passport.

@wildbill23c

2 жыл бұрын

I'm not a fan of either, but I'd go with the Subaru, seemed like it struggled a bit less at the end, although the Passport seemed to clear the log obstacle easier. The AWD system too hot nonsense on any system would push me away from that vehicle altogether, I don't want a system disabling itself when it gets warm, this is why I prefer a part time old school 4WD.

@rallysauruswrex

2 жыл бұрын

@@wildbill23c he took the easier lines over the logs in the passport

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

@@rallysauruswrex it’s Honda, can’t blame him I guess Subaru did well regardless!

@JonDZ_Adventuring

2 жыл бұрын

@@wildbill23c the iVTM4 AWD system never went into limp mode. He just stopped because he had the warning. I can vouch, especially because I’ve owned 2 Subarus as well as a 2019 Honda Passport. The will constantly go into limp mode. I’ve had the “AWD system Hot” heat warning 7 times in 100K miles of owning my Passport. It has never went into limp mode.

@JonDZ_Adventuring

2 жыл бұрын

@@martinr8278 not surprised by your comment, as I’m sure you’re not surprised that I’m here trying to clear up confusion. I dare you to watch my latest KZread video and say an Outback Wilderness will make it to the same 10K foot alpine peak as my 3.5” lifted Passport 😃. I know you won’t 😉.

Way late to this video but it was great. The original videos are excellent and I feel like you added some specifics that were really helpful insights on top of that. I'm definitely baffled. On paper the OBW should be better, but it's not. I'm car shopping and this definitely made that harder. I think I'll still go OBW since the form factor is better for me and I'm pretty much always at altitude where I THINK the turbo will be the better choice simply because the NA loses so much power/torque at high elevation, but this is definitely making me consider my options. I currently have a gen 5 2.5 OB and that really struggles trying to climb steep to high and that's the main thing I really want to improve on my next car without losing much on handling and economy, which really limits my options. Or maybe I should just drop a torq locker in the OB which should massively improve it (if i can do math right and understand energy conversation) and just wait until the next wilderness comes out, but I dunno what that'll be like on road.

Chanel got us into a 22 crosstrek and a pilot lol Thank u

Thank you so much Ryan! I been waiting for you to do one of these reviews on the IVTM4 System and the Subarus AWD System! I can agree with you on the lack of the skid plates and higher clearance on the Honda…

Love seeing these videos! Thank you for the content!

The Trailsport is more than 5k over the WIlderness - doesn't have a full size spare or HDC... boo. I think that 1/8 alum plate is useless, and would definitely opt for a Primitive Racing plate. I get 31.5mpg on flat hwy at 70mph with CC on in my Onyx, so 24mpg on the Honda sounds like a bit of a bummer. Yeah yeah, the Subaru has a CVT, but once you get used to the nuances/how to drive it, you won't have a problem. Also pretty incredible that the honda started to overheat after only a bit of Drama..... if I took that on a muddy 15-20mi truck trail climb like I take my car on the reg - it would probably melt.

@thebeast9606

2 жыл бұрын

I thought the exact same thing about the Honda's AWD system. Why promote the Passport as off-road capable when the system can easily overheat on an easy to medium difficulty trail..🤔

@johnbainbridge9034

2 жыл бұрын

Before our Crosstrek was stolen, I liked the design of the Andersen Design skid plate best. But the official Wilderness ones definitely have the best coverage and contouring to the engine.

@EveryTacoInLA

2 жыл бұрын

What are the nuances to the CVT?

@johnbainbridge9034

2 жыл бұрын

@@EveryTacoInLA It's just subtle things. The feel of it. It also pretends to shift gears when you accelerate. But sometimes it doesn't. In general, it is a smoother experience because the transitions are continuous so you don't feel the jumps and the little jolts that come with them.

@mallninja12

2 жыл бұрын

@@johnbainbridge9034If you watch Ryan's review of the Forester Wilderness, he dents it. Is that the same plate?

best car review channel out there! Subaru's 4-wheel drive system 2nd to none for body on frame SUVs.

Any word on exactly what Hondas doing next year to these Trailsport upgrades ?

I think the Passport should win in the rematch if the 2023 Pilot TrailSport is any indication of it's next gen capability.

I really like this off-road course you've made and especially in these loose and muddy conditions. The vehicle I'm still most interested in though is the Maverick. I know that little truck is fairly stiffly sprung but I'd really like to see how its articulation improves with the sway bars disconnected. I disconnect my old Sequoia's front sway bar off-road and makes a notable difference with the stock suspension. Nobody seems to be testing this on the Maverick for some reason even though people are beginning to modify them for light off-roading and overlanding.

When I see the back end of the Passport, all I can see is Explorer. Small tail lights that look like an afterthought.

Great automotive review channel! Thank you

So the Passport 'trailsport' has less ground clearance than the CR-V (8.2")? What the heck is Honda thinking?

You’ve got the best automotive channel out there, though being located in the Puget Sound area as well I may be a little biased 😉

Trail Sport... without OEM undercarrage protection.. smh. Why Honda.. WHY?

and in my opinion, it’s noticeable in the video that the Honda drove better and more confidently, the only moment where it stood up was where it didn’t have enough ground clearance; in other cases, the torque distribution worked better than braking the wheels on a Subaru

That wilderness looks sick

Looks like Honda is good per specs with torque vectoring AWD but Subaru did well imo even after taking hard lines. No over heating issues.

@LJ-em7wj

2 жыл бұрын

Nah, honda pilot awd system when put into stress, it overheats. Which is crap

@danieljackson-woods6225

2 жыл бұрын

They put the wilderness against the jeep compass in a snow hill climb the jeep overheated half way up the wilderness made it all the way up and out.

@rodneydecormier1504

2 жыл бұрын

The off-road engineering in the Subaru is decades of experience, and it shows. The elements of the entire package works in unison to deliver exceptional performance in its class of off-roading.

@saramae9878

2 жыл бұрын

That's one thing that keeps sticking out to me in these videos. Subaru's don't overheat the way Hondas or especially Kias/Hyundais do.

@johnbainbridge9034

2 жыл бұрын

I'm torn on the clutch based torque vectoring approach. On the one hand, it's very versatile, which is great. When it works, it works well! But since it's ultimately a friction based system, when fully engaged it can generate a lot of heat very quickly. Both this and the Bronco sport have shown that same issue. It becomes a problem on sustained engagement. Every system has pros and cons. It's best to just learn what they are so you can work around them.

I love my ‘21 Passport Sport. The thing can do it all…other than good gas mileage. Loves the snow of the eastern sierras and the Rocky Mountains

Picked up my new Wilderness Yesterday May 14th.Subaru told me underguard protection has been discontinued except for the front skid plate in the US. The sales person said the steel for the plates is from Russia and is no longer available. From what I can tell some after market plates are better quality than Subarus plates.

If you do a 2022 ford tiimberline vs 4runner thatd be awesome!! Buying 1 of them in the next few weeks and would love to see a video beforehand.

@Whateva67

2 жыл бұрын

Umm,forerunner,nuff said

Wow…I was watching and feeling very uncomfortable during the ‘rattler’ for both! So I suspect were any folks from Subaru or Honda! This course is far tougher than most people take their actual 4x4 vehicles on (not those who rock crawl for fun of course), so both vehicles making it through impressive. I do question how long either would last if people did this very often…notably the suspensions might object. Still, for the occasional time (most of us) they would work well. Next years Honda may surprise us further. Another great video…would love to see what the BZ4X could do here? Kidding….well only sort of.

@JonDZ_Adventuring

2 жыл бұрын

Once you increase the ground clearance and offroad angles, a obstacle course like the rattler is a piece of cake. I have 100K miles on my 2019 Honda Passport. I’ve done the “coyote flats / funnel lake trail in Bishop, California. Do a KZread search, It leads to a 10K foot alpine lake. We have tried to get Subarus up here but either the CVT overheats or the clutch burns up. We also tried to get a 2018 Honda Ridgeline up that has the Honda 6 speed automatic and it overheated as well. The ZF9 is solid!

@benjaminjwilson6694

Жыл бұрын

So even with the new extra cooler in the wilderness, they still overheat. Thinking I may have bought the wrong car.

All these Hyundai and Honda's with their "over heating" AWD Systems, never once did I see the Ford's AWD system stop working because it was in "over heating" mode lol

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

Honda overheating and having to cool down while you may be in a precarious incline situation just sounds like great engineering. Sounds like ford got it right. Regardless of the argument from others through this feed, it just doesn’t sound good

@nightryder21

2 жыл бұрын

The Honda passport awd did not stop working. Lol

@enacku

2 жыл бұрын

@@nightryder21 @14:38 Over heated and required to wait, even though it barely was looking like it was working hard.

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

@@nightryder21 and yet they need to stop. So it doesn’t matter

I have been waiting for this comparison for a long time!! Should be fun! Just started watching 😊

"The Passport could be a very capable off road vehicle" ....Yeah with the AWD system overheating only minutes into the test. 😂

Love subie designs lately, this and the new WRX looks great

@jonlosito2004

2 жыл бұрын

I don’t think the WRX looks nearly better than the older ones tho. I hate the plastic cladding on the new WRX. It doesn’t look better. And I don’t appreciate Subaru’s new “Performance” Transmission, cuz at the end of the day, it’s just a CVT…

@raymondhachmishvili2483

2 жыл бұрын

@@jonlosito2004 at least for me it looks miles better than previous one...car has character, wider body, and the cladding matches the car nicely except for that exaggerated rear bumper.

@James-il3tq

2 жыл бұрын

Beauty is in eye of beholder 👀 Personally I prefer older WRX much more. Outbacks are a lifted station wagon with massive roof rails. Not my personal preference!

Love your videos man. Hey I have a 2022 Toyota 4Runner sr5 4x4. I know you have a trd model but ide love to see you get up the course without the locker just as a comparison to what I might be able to tackle. Thanks man and keep it up

@nightryder21

2 жыл бұрын

He sold it for the maverick.

the 2024 Passport Trailsport will be more similar to the 2nd Gen 2001 Honda Passport. higher clearances.. steel skid plates.. niceeee.

Why do you use your own original content? Why don't you copy video from elsewhere? Why don't you say BS in your commentary? Why do you provide technical insight into the cars you drive? Why do you make the best off-road videos? You could have posted a few popular images, read ad brochures out loud , fill the screen with nauseating smiles, pretend you are a guru, switch BS logorrhea on - and make same money on KZread.

Amazing video. Next year compare 2023 Honda Passport Trailsport to 2023 Kia Telluride X-Pro in the same testing fashion.

I hope you'll review CX-50 Meridian Edition & Telluride X-Pro..

Subaru beautiful 100% Respect

Could have taken the rocks faster with the obw like you did in the tacoma.

We gotta see the wilderness 2024 vs the new Honda off roader TFL says they like the Honda more Let’s put it to the test!!

I saw on another channel a year or so ago the Ridgeline transmission overheat on a climb. I just don't trust Honda for off-roading.

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

You have to wonder why they do that especially if you’re in a tricky situation and need to wait till it cools down. Doesn’t sound to safe or practical. Kudos to Subaru for not doing that. Makes me wonder if Honda will have issues down the road maintenance wise

i love my Suby wilderness!

@martinr8278

2 жыл бұрын

I’m sure it doesn’t need to disable its AWD due to over extending some heat under the hood?! Great thing to have a suv do this when you may need out of a tight situation……..hold on, my light in my Honda said I need to wait! Okay 🤔🥱😂

9:41 Good answer

Man I love the knee front end so much more than that 19. And that color is really nice too. It doesn’t stand out- it’s just nice.

If honda have a good 4wd system..why dont they compete in bigger size offroad suv segment like 4runner and jeep like nissan armada/patrol or even land cruiser?

@njfreeskier

2 жыл бұрын

Because even though Honda may call it a 4wd system, it is really an awd system. The cars you mentioned have true 4wd systems that include low range gearing and body on frame builds, neither of which are likely to make there way onto crossovers.

@dolguldur4706

2 жыл бұрын

@@njfreeskier thats what im curious about..honda surely got the money to invest and complete with other manufacturer who produce real 4wd system...even honda already got good system,they still not dare to enter the segment

@njfreeskier

2 жыл бұрын

@@dolguldur4706 last time they had a true 4wd system was in the passport from the 90s which was a rebadged Isuzu. I don’t think Honda as a brand as any interest in exploring that avenue as it is becoming a smaller and smaller market with more and more dominant players, whereas they with regards to awd crossovers they are one of the bigger sharks in the tank.

@dolguldur4706

2 жыл бұрын

@@njfreeskier i agree with you..sadly,its the reality...even super capable offroader nowadays is just a mall crawler..so not much different even the manufacturer just make a basic 2wd suv that looks mean and tough just to pick son from school 😅

Although it's drivetrain is pretty much bulletproof, I have a hard time seeing an additional $6,000 in value or content with the Honda. It just isn't there.

@k20z3allmotorFTW

2 жыл бұрын

It’s a bigger vehicle with a larger engine better trans better diff etc, the outback is basically a lifted station wagon

@MicajahMcCurry

2 жыл бұрын

me too. subarus tech had me sold. Only OBW issue is bumping over a big rock without the low end torque but unless youre rock crawling (wouldn't buy a honda for that either..)