Wow. His interpretation of the Bible creation story is amazing! The people of the past were wise.

@jacksonfamilyaccount7768

3 жыл бұрын

It's not a description of an optimal state, it's a curse... (I badly paraphrase, but wow! So many people both sides of the Abraham traditions need to understand that phase he just uttered)

Wow, that was good. I wish I could just sit down and talk to you for a good 4 hours and take notes and ask questions. Love your videos, thank you.

I can't help but be fascinated by the inextinguishable optimism of Dr. Peterson

Dear Dr. Peterson: Regarding the question as to how the serpent managed to sneak into the Garden of Eden: In the first few lines of Genesis there is a clue that the serpent got its foot in the door of creation on the second day. On the second day, God made the firmament to divide the waters, but when this task was completed God does not observe that "It was good". When the waters are divided, God only saw that "It was so". For those who accept the lines of Genesis as divine revelation, this cannot be dismissed as a stylistic error. It is reasonable to interpret this as a message that on day two the perfect goodness of God's creation became tainted in some way. How and why creation was tainted on that particular day are interesting theological/philosophical questions. Best wishes. Robert

Please post part II from the lecture Hierarchies and Chaos. :]

DR Peterson you are a once in a lifetime intellectual. Thank you for inspiring me to be the best form of myself.

Brilliant lecture. The very reason why I support him on Patreon.

I've heard a hypothesis that snakes lost their legs so they could move through rodent burrows easier.

@samuellotz8304

7 жыл бұрын

I'm thinking that once mammals learned how to construct homes and get away from legged dinos, the dinos lost the legs to follow, so the fear of snakes would be even deeper in the psyche than the simian origin.

@samuellotz8304

7 жыл бұрын

Didn't know that about the birds of prey do you have link or something? Although I would guess it is a different sort of fear. As I've never heard of anyone being irrationally afraid of raptors. Raptors wouldn't actually come into your homes, or live in old homes, and would only strike when little mammals were out of their burrows playing the game. So I'm thinking it's more of a cautious respect, which is usually attributed to raptors. Makes me think of the mexican flag with the eagle clutching the snake (and the older Quetzlcoatl), where the eagle actually is the enemy of the snake as well and respects the rules of the game. Also I wonder what is the timing of raptor, snake, and mammal evolution. Getting the timelines aligned would help here.

@samuellotz8304

7 жыл бұрын

haha glad we cleared it up at least :)

Maybe the snake legs thing is related to our vision? Because we could see so well, it was extra hard to sneak up on us. The only reptiles to survive were sly, sneaky ones. Slithering probably became a big part of that and legs became unused and redundant. Would be interesting if this was true as it would explain why the snakes were "forced" to slither along the ground as mankind's eyes were opened.

19:15 “a fair bit of integrity “)) I love his expressions

It's amazing to witness how ancient people via genesis attempted to grapple with the evident development of humans into intelligent and self conscious beings, with brains too big, and who know right from wrong.

Jordan is correct in saying, "It doesn't matter that there isn't an account of Adam being told of the snake in the garden." However, it should be said that it doesn't matter because, ultimately, he was told "not to eat the apple." Adam was questioning Gods authority by eating the apple. "And that a bad idea!"

So glad to be at this point in the playlist knowing jp is getting sharper by the day

Watching this video, I have gleaned more insight then a childhood of sermons and lessons. It is for this reason I now openly reject organized religion and will pursue an understanding of God via the senses and insight inherent to my existence, rather than relying solely upon the interpretations of others and stagnant sources of information.

@jcalvin4796

7 жыл бұрын

Darian Rebsomen There is a lot we can learn from human reasoning, but the written revelation in the Bible is what Jordan is basing his reasoning on-- so that tells me that scripture isn't obsolete to you but you just haven't heard it talked about as reality. Is this right?

@s37747

7 жыл бұрын

J Sauer I have only ever heard it talked of as a reality. Absolute and nonegotiable. It wasn't the source material, but rather the people presenting it. For example, my home church would not and will not tolerate any discourse where the concept of evolution is applied to a train of discourse. Nor would the story, as told by Dr. Peterson, be reviewed as a matter of metaphor. They would often state that the parables of Christ were in fact true stories that he told. Which may be possible, but thats beside the point, which is that they closed off avenues of growth so that thier view would be the only view. I still have faith, but it is now my own.

@jcalvin4796

7 жыл бұрын

Darian Rebsomen there are a lot of Sunday school teachers out there who mean well, but probably shouldn't be teaching. I guess that's why books/lectures are important--so we can choose who teaches us

Thank you Professor!

I can only think that you have never had a dog. Dogs have a clear sense of right and wrong, and they punish themselves when they realize they did something wrong. In fact, they specifically do more or less symbolic damages when they feel abandoned, and when you show yourself again they immediately expect punishment. The example that almost every dog owner has seen is the destruction of a sock or a shoe when you leave them alone for several hours, followed by the expectation of punishment. My dog is very dominant, most probably an Alpha male, and he has the clearly contradictory conduct of asserting his dominant place but then going himself to his time-out corner, even before we order him to go. Clearly he has adapted his instinctive conduct rules to life in a group where he cannot be the head.

@andresvillarreal9271

7 жыл бұрын

***** You are way, way behind on your study of animal psychological research. The studies done in wolves show that their social behavior is very complex and full of nuance, filled with the conducts that we, as ignorant humans used to believe were our own monopoly. I talk about domesticated dogs because they are what you can see in your own house. You should also check the work by Dian Fossey on Mountain Gorillas.

@meddlesomemusic

7 жыл бұрын

Joel Harvey 30 years wy 0 9 yogi y kg 8uuu you uk080 of 🎸 iljo8ll0909op 700p9o900j 08 0 🕘

@Eng_Simoes

5 жыл бұрын

I can only think you were not paying attention, maybe distracted by your dogs. The meaning of those stories pack a sum of events happened to far, far ancestors, which could only be called "humans" by a stretch of imagination. But let's wait for the canine bible.

I'd really love if Dr. Peterson wrote a book of commentaries of early biblical books, as the old theologians would do.

Thank you for this.

Dr. Peterson, first amazing classes (Personality and this one), though I disagree with much, they are intellectual masterpieces. If I may add, the choice of sacrifice in the Cain and Abel story was not arbitrary. Looking at what happened just prior during the Fall, God clothed Adam and Eve with an animal hide - the first sacrifice! This is b/c, as God warned, sin required death. The rest of the Torah also echoes this sentiment ie animal death/sacrifice is needed for atonement. Cain and Abel likely knew this requirement and Cain disregarded it and wanted to bring what he was good at (agricultural) and dismiss God's rules. From what I have gathered from your class you can use this as a metaphor for the need for death as a necessity for evolution, something you have previously alluded to or human's desire to find their own work and not a rival's meaningful and the resentment that comes from that rejection . A rejection of one's foundational worldview or paradigm shifts, such as happened in the 20th century Europe that Nietzsche and Dostoevsky predicted, is what can be imagined here when Cain life work was rejected. Just to be honest and complete, I personally think this story is real and does point to man's need for a atonement and sacrifice in Jesus Christ, but even as a committed theist I find your ideas very interesting and challenging. I hope that this theological insight is of some value. Godspeed on your current controversy!

Great lecture, this is gettin hella real.

A guy named Tony Wright has done a bunch of synthesis of different types of research to argue that the fruit-eating phase of our evolutionary development was one of a symbiotic relationship with fruit that allowed our brains to develop a new form of consciousness. People interested in this should check out his book, it's available for free online. He's not institutionally affiliated, but keep an open mind and I think you'll find him a very interesting thinker.

Add to Favorite.

@Lidrien

7 жыл бұрын

so did i!

I'm very very excited to watch these! thanks for putting the work into this stuff! I'm hoping these could enable some conversations with my conservative family members.

I hope he just creates a bible study playlist

@ericvrenios5854

6 жыл бұрын

wish granted! great new bible series.

Where's part 2 to lecture 8?

Excellent

12:47. So true... It's also true that women judge men but their "insufficiencies."

J, P, and E. Glad for people to be hearing this from someone learned. But there are such stretches made (not just by the presenter, since these are distillations of many others before).

Zebras running around popping Valium 😂😂😂

3:20 "it isn't obvious what developing our vision did but it did a lot of things" ... "towards having moral knowledge" I think developing our vision made us more interested in art, which would have kicked off the human journey of introspection and philosophy

Had Jordan been talking about this 2,000 years ago we would now be calling him "Jesus".

@TheFluxyFlux

7 жыл бұрын

mark boggs Jordan Christ

@Squeeeez

4 жыл бұрын

Missing the beard

i always knew that genesis part of the bible was just stories with some ''intresting'' meaning. But i had no idea it was this deep, wow

Perhaps one of the reasons God chose Able's sacrifice over Cain's isn't necessarily because he was being arbitrary but because Able's sacrifice was more valuable than Cain's and not just because the meat was the absolute best he had to offer. Animals are much more valued than vegetables because you can get far more attached to them than a plant, it's one of the reasons why vegans exist. So here you have the Shepherd, whom spends all of his waking hours caring for his flock, defending them from wild beasts and other dangers, vs a farmer, whom spends only so many of his waking hours watching his crops grow while probably pulling weeds here and there in back breaking work. The difference is significant, because on the one hand you have a job that requires bravery to do, not just to face down the beasts that threaten your animals but also for when the shepherd kills one of his herd for food, which he would remember being this cute fluffy helpless creature that he watched grow up with little personality quirks. So it's bravery to face what scares you and to do what must be done which is the more difficult of the two. The other job requires no attachment for what you do and it's the sort of job that a person could easily come to resent, it's also work that is much more open to idleness and distraction because between the time of planting and harvest if you're not pulling weeds you're doing other things. So of the two, watching sheep ends up being more admirable because of the time and focus spent with the flock and the emotional attachment that is formed between man and beast. I would even say that there's a greater investment for the shepherd in what he does than the farmer because if your crops die well, so what? The smart man probably has other things he can fall back on for winter and just plant new crops next year, but if you lose a flock, which is like your whole life, then that's devastation and not as easy to bounce back from after a single winter. What Cain was offering God then was the equivalent of copper and bronze coins vs Able's silver and gold. Both were of value but the essence of sacrifice requires The Most Valuable Thing, like giving 110% above and beyond what you could possibly do in order for it to be meaningful and not just to God but for yourself as well. People never feel accomplished when they half ass something and doing so hurts them and in a way creates a type of vain sacrifice one where they lie to themselves instead of being lied to.

Did we get the first part of this one? It seems to start after coming back from break, perhaps, and we're already much of the way into the story. But I didn't see an upload of the first part of the class this seems to come from (the video just prior ends the Enuma Elish).

@Porphyrogenitus1

8 жыл бұрын

Then it's part of the great unknown, submerged into the vast deep!

@pinewatch5006

7 жыл бұрын

I got the impression that he started the class and then a minute or so in remembered to turn the recorder on.

@jordanpeterson8414

4 жыл бұрын

@@pinewatch5006 remembered? Do you want to say, that JP is forgetting. This is blasphemie.

as for the lost legs of snakes (I'm no expert; just providing some conjecture), a lot of reptiles and snakes live in at least partly aquatic environments (crocodiles are one of the reptiles that really springs to mind right now). Legs have a tendency to make larger impacts in the water especially when on the surface). The legless, slithering movement of a snake has very little impact on the water and makes the snake much harder to detect (the same goes on land for that matter). Going of that, I'd imagine snakes started out like an aquatic ambush predator or some kind of burrowing animal (i.e. a big worm).

Regarding the sacrifices, could it be that maybe god sensed in a way that maybe cain was dragging himself through life while abel was pushing forward? And that could be another reason why god didn't accepted cain's sacrifice?

Dr Peterson, Can one separate (or ignore altogether) that self-consciousness was inspired by a force of symbolic evil?

@Lidrien

7 жыл бұрын

I'd like to say that I think that is a really good question. Wouldn't it depend on how you interpret what exactly that snake represents? Does the snake represent raw evil, or could it be a symbol of the unknown, or could it be a symbol of temptation? If we see the snake as a symbol of evil, and the self-consciousness of man was brought forth as a result of interacting with this evil, then I wouldn't see how you could separate the two. The separation would be possible when you start adjusting how you perceive the snake.

@TheHaroldSleeper

3 жыл бұрын

The snake sheds its skin and is a symbol of transformation. That's why the serpent brought self consciousness.

BTW its also interesting to know, that Chain founded the first City after he killed his brother. What does this tell us about Cities?

@joelwest5541

3 жыл бұрын

Have you read Ishmael by Daniel Quinn?

Do you have a list of exam questions for this course?

THEODIZEE studied this a bit...one view thats missing: - Why did a god who is good put that tree in there? - because the tree symbolizes which is logically necessary...god cant prohibit free people to search for goodness in themselves only(which the snake is implying, (circularity of a snake)), just warn them about it

I'd love to know what you think about Chinese and their positive regard for dragons. The amount you talk about dragons and their being basically a symbol for evil always makes me wonder how the hell dragons became such a almost angel or fatherly like figure in China....

@RunesandReapers

7 жыл бұрын

reverence, fear, and power.

@LilRedRasta

7 жыл бұрын

He mentions it in this lecture. Gnosticism. Gnostics have an reverence for knowledge which is why most ancient cultures have serpents as divine knowledgeable figures. Christianity is unique in that it demonizes that figure instead of worshiping it. Christianity sees knowledge of good and evil as a problem that brought suffering. This also extends to the nephilim story. The Greeks and every other culture praised it ( ie. heroes like Hercules), while the Christians viewed it as a bastardization. The same idea is played out at the tower of babel.

41:35, how is it Cain’s ideal?

why kill 7^n of the ancestors? does 7 have a special meaning or something?

One very important aspect of the value of first born children is also related to holiness of virginity: the only way a man could be more or less sure he was leaving his property to his own "blood" was to get a virgin woman pregnant.

Did anyone catch if it was significant that woman was the first to eat the fruit and have her eyes opened? I might have missed if he said if it was.

@DrewRoyster

6 жыл бұрын

Sableyez he didn’t say, but I think it’s because women develop faster than men. I think I heard that from him, but can’t tell you where

Pertaining to comments @18:50 I want to really call you out Dr. Peterson. Women didn't shame men into caring for children. The remarkable ability of men to care for young children extremely well when compared with any other mammal must be the result of selection. Shame is only going to influence the equation in the makeup of our species if by shaming you mean that men who couldn't adequately help care for children were shamed out of the gene pool.

@ginabrogan1825

10 ай бұрын

NEVER THOUGHT OF IT LIKE THAT. Cool

"Level of analysis" used in less than 10 seconds in. Right on, bucko.

38:50 Could the interpretation of Cain and the "sexual predator" of sin be instead, interpreted as, Cain willingly invited sin into himself and found great pleasure in doing so? He was filled with sinful ideas and found it pleasurable to the point where it was almost indistinguishable from sexual satisfaction and possibly euphoric?

@MxmentoMxri

Жыл бұрын

Like a supervillain in his lair, laughing maniacally at his own master plan of evil and deception. Completely enveloped with what he is going to do next.

@Alaskathelastfrontier

Жыл бұрын

Well the Bible clearly says Cain invited sin Cuz it says sin is at the door knocking

There's even more to this: Kain was the firstborn, worked the cursed ground (see genesis3) and then sacrificed some of it , but Abel, who was not the first born, sacrificed the firstborn of his sheep. Kain sacrificed himself eventually (lost reigning capacity) and Abel was accepted through sacrificing another firstborn (and kept reign. for reigning significance: see Gen1&2). Now see that echoing through genesis and the bible! Isaak and Jacob were second born but chosen/accepted, and then Jesus was sacrified as (accepted) firstborn! The blood of Abel cried from the ground toghether with the blood of prophets and Jesus' blood at that time (gn4:10&N.T.). That's why Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD (history and myth come together) and the people that lived there went into exile - again. And that's were Jerusalem was the archetypal Kain (not accepted, own strength, cursed ground) and archetypal Abel was accepted (trusting in Jesus' sacrifice as firstborn). And then resurrection and the rest of the glorystory :D

1. the Lord never forbade them to speak to any of the animals including the snake. 2. @3:48. If Eve can see the fruit as you stated.. then she was able to see. So Man and woman was able to see before the snake lied to them and there death was Spiritual first then later down the line: Physical.

הֲלוֹא אִם-תֵּיטִיב, שְׂאֵת, וְאִם לֹא תֵיטִיב, לַפֶּתַח חַטָּאת רֹבֵץ; וְאֵלֶיךָ, תְּשׁוּקָתוֹ, וְאַתָּה, תִּמְשָׁל-בּוֹ.

@GelidGanef

8 жыл бұрын

+amirgeffen From Genesis 4:7, God's address to Cain before his sin of murder. Roughly translated: "If you will better yourself, better for you. If you will not better yourself, sin crouches waiting. Your passions, you must rule over yourself." Thank you for this. Searching for it lead me to some excellent Talmudic commentaries, and to seeing how impoverished English translations are.

@amirgeffen

8 жыл бұрын

+GelidGanef its a bit difficult to translate old hebrew altho its a thin language same word can have different meaning it can not be 100% accurate, its more like semantic structure that associate all the time with something else הלוא - indeed, surely, is it not אם-תיטיב - if you do better, improve, do good שאת - carry, lift / suffer / forgive / (can be also marry) , ואם לא תיטיב - and if you not ( do better; improve; do good, ) לפתח -to the entrance, doorway, gate חטאת - sin, transgress; miss ( also name of offering ritual named חטאת en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin_offering ) רובץ - ist an adjective for animal that lie on the ground but have metaphorical meaning to distress, press; oppress , ואליך, תשוקתו - and to him will be your passion, desire, lust, craving, mania, flame, hankering, rage, thirst ואתה, תמשול-בו - and you will rule, govern it

@amirgeffen

8 жыл бұрын

+amirgeffen the name "Kain" means or relate to ownership, possession also creator and its refer to his job owning land and "Hevel" means or relate to the sound of breath, steam of water also futility and nonsense and its refer to his lifestyle as a shepherd, someone who move like air or voice and opposite to the owner of land, someone that defined territory and creator of fences stockades. an ancient war between those who build citys and structures and those who live out of the humen structures but god loves their prayer more

@recynd77

7 жыл бұрын

Amir Thank you for this translation. Speaking only English (and being Western), I clearly miss very important messages in the Bible. I appreciate the info/insight from alternate perspectives.

How Can I Get The MP3

@sh4m4npi7ot9

7 жыл бұрын

convert it

So the Snake was put there by god because maybe he wanted Adam and Eve to use their free will regardless of consequences. God knew that was more important? Because say god knows they won't always be there to direct Adam/Eve to do and not to do. Mistakes are an important part of free will?

Sexuality cover up show shame of their transgression. Genitalia indicated a sin had happened and now they are no longer perfect, no longer immortal.

The story of Cain and Abel = Post Modernism and Western Capitalism?

I'm a moronic atheist and I'm struggling with this.

@chrysantus

7 жыл бұрын

Andrew Watson It's good that you realize it's moronic. ;) But, in all fairness, there is nothing in the lecture that an atheist could not understand or accept. He is speaking from the viewpoint of archetypal psychology and evolutionary biology, not of metaphysical realism.

@michaelconnell6317

7 жыл бұрын

I think it is about religion -- but not the dogmatic manfiestations of religion. It's about the very foundations in evolution and biology of human meaning making, including how people make meaning of existence (which is a central concern of organized religions). One thing I find interesting here is that this seems to be a formulation that could allow for a person to embrace both religion -- or religious experience -- and atheism at the same time. Part of what he is mapping out is the process by which religious beliefs, rituals, systems, etc. are generated. Whereas usually atheism is presented as an alternative to religion, this seems to be a system in which all religious systems can be contained within an atheistic system. That is, you don't have to believe that things have specific values because God imbues them with those values -- JBP is providing an alternative grounding for those values. And in fact, he's explaining how the religions themselves emerge from people experiencing those fundamental values and then trying to make sense of them in the form of external representations.

@michaelhart1072

7 жыл бұрын

Traposaurus Flex of course it's religion, it's just not fundamentalism which has only been around for a few hundred years.

@returntosender6948

7 жыл бұрын

Michael Hart Everyone was basically fundamentalist before recent times. It's just that we have secularism now.

@michaelhart1072

7 жыл бұрын

Return to Sender that's just not true. Fundamentalism is relatively new, at least with it being widespread.

Bees and ants work but its not consciousness, just evolutionary programming.

@mjcard

6 жыл бұрын

Lautaro Fonz That's what arrogant humans would have us believe anyway.

@kangakid5984

6 жыл бұрын

Yvonne van den Vondel care for their community it is there version of love

How did Cain know how to kill Abel?

@dreddnott

7 жыл бұрын

the plot dictated it

@fodderville5

7 жыл бұрын

because he knew what would kill himself

@deBarnik

7 жыл бұрын

I would argue it was constructive manslaughter.

Can someone clue me in how this is otherwise interpreted, cause I can't help but seeit as a hacky standup bit. It's about the sacrifice of Isaac. So God stops Abraham, child sacrifice is NOT cool. Fast-forward to the New Testament, god says to humanity: Here's the new deal, guys, I've figured it out this time. Check it - and this fixes everything - I'm going to, just for you, wait for it... sacrifice my child! *badum tss*

@kangakid5984

6 жыл бұрын

Self-transforming machine elf god didn't sacrifice his son, Christ Jesus 33 years of age went through this in sacrificial obedience to his fathers will for the reconciliation of mankind.

The problem with the Petersonian reading of ecclesiastical literature is displayed well by Sam Harris in their second discussion. I'll use particular examples from this lecture to elucidate. I want to make he preface that I love Jordan, and that he has really changed my life, so I mean no disrespect in the following passage: Jordan notes the comedic element of Adam passing off responsibility to Eve. Unfortunately it is only comedic if his particular vocalisation is interpolated into it, as in classical interpretations there is no humour involved. God responds with an almighty condemnation of women, assigning them to the rightly identified hell of labour, and moreover this passage provided justification for the burning of midwives for hundreds of years as witches. Literally, made a painful situation exponentially worse. The barbarism of the dark-ages philosophy is unparalleled. To extend this, God takes little qualm with Adam, giving him utter dominion over Eve and then every single innocent woman thereafter. Like North Korean labour camps, where three generations are punished for one crime. But at least you can fucking die to leave North Korea, but even in the afterlife of this perverse Neolithic ideology women are condemned unjustly. So, you might wonder, 'if the texts themselves intrinsically hold little wisdom, as is evident by the clumsy and destructive utilisation of them throughout history, (I have more on this point I won't include here, in reference to the arbitration of who has decree over proper use of texts without a factual basis) then why does so much Jordan say make sense?' To that I'd respond, Sam Harris makes a recipe in a cookbook sound profound. He does so by conflating real, earned wisdom with metaphor and imbuing the words with layered meaning. Any wisdom found here is only half memetically selected information. At least half of it is entirely due to Peterson reading through the prism of his private genius.

הלוא אם-תיטיב, שאת, ואם לא תיטיב, לפתח חטאת רובץ; ואליך, תשוקתו, ואתה, תמשול-בו

He is not teaching psychology, just religious dogma. He is trying to be relatable, but is not accounting for the +50% of people who don't want to hear that crap.

@michaelhart1072

7 жыл бұрын

AbsoluteTruthKnown this isn't dogma.

@mjcard

6 жыл бұрын

AbsoluteTruthKnown So, don't listen.

@kangakid5984

6 жыл бұрын

AbsoluteTruthKnown it ties in with the dominant history stories and cultural symbolic mythology across the world

@apacur

5 жыл бұрын

How is this dogma? He's citing his insights and his own interpretations.... He's not telling you You should believe anything.

I hate JBP, he destroyed most of the lectures of other professors. They are so lame since i know JBP