Most everyone I've talked to about snowmobile engines on buggies, they always recommend at least a 10:1 gearing to help with acceleration and extend belt life.

@Just-InTimeRepairs

2 жыл бұрын

Another big issue that's often overlooked is proper drive-belt tension. A lot of snowmobiles recommend between 1-1.5 inches of play in the drive-belt between the primary and secondary clutch. This is done by laying a straight edge across the belt spanning from the primary to the secondary clutch, then pushing the belt down with a ruler, measuring the slack between the belt and the bottom of the straight edge. You often want to get the belt to squeak from being too tight, then add a tiny bit of slack until it is quiet again. You guys may have a better outcome if you allow either the engine or the secondary clutch to slide forward/backward to adjust the slack.

@Ethan-ck6iz

2 жыл бұрын

Doesn't help that these guys are experimenting with homebrew setups with larger sheave spacings and such. These sleds came with a shorter, but much meatier belt out of the factory. I don't think that secondary is big enough for that primary either. When it goes, you can see the belt drop down in the secondary it's not strong enough to keep the belt out.

@kevinsellsit5584

2 жыл бұрын

I agree with Ethan, and John. Hopefully the springs they get will help. I still want a camera on the CVT while driving. Looks like lots of fun!

@Ratkill9000

2 жыл бұрын

@@rydplrs71 I've talked with a few dozen people who have built competition buggies using snowmobile engines, 10:1 is the highest they recommend. The reason is the drive wheels on a sled are about 3-4 inches diameter, wheels and tires on a buggy 4-6 times that if not more.

@Ethan-ck6iz

2 жыл бұрын

@@Ratkill9000 Bingo. And it doesn't help that they're using a Kawasaki 440, notorious for blowing crank seals causing them to be down on power and/or melt down. I noticed, I don't think they have any rubber engine mounts to dampen the engine's vibration like there should be either. Not good.

So cool! Back when I was in my 20s, I road ATVs with 3 other buddies. In addition to my Suzuki Quadracer (250), I also picked up a Honda Odyssey, 250 two stroke, it much like this go cart, but did not have read suspension. It came with wrist straps connect3d to the steering wheel. They prevented the driver from instinctively putting his arm out if the machine started to flip over. Great idea that prevented multiple possible broken arms/hands.

@RandomPerson-ob1hk

28 күн бұрын

My friends got a pilot which had the rear suspension but never gone get it running I bet lol

To increase the throttle pull. just move the cable pivot bolt on the pedal arm up a little higher!

@shawnsatterlee6035

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah that's what I thought, but obviously working smarter isn't a thing now a days! Lol

@captkurk357

2 жыл бұрын

I knew someone would beat me to it

@robertjean659

2 жыл бұрын

Exactly what I was thinking🇦🇺🇦🇺

@Lumbeelegend

2 жыл бұрын

Lol, looking for this comment

@JustStayingGroovy

4 ай бұрын

​@@shawnsatterlee6035we all overlook the obvious sometimes. Seemed to me it was about the same amount of work.

You need to flip the driven pulley so the belt moves in the same direction on both pulling as you cycle them. That will help alot with the slipping

@limpy4707

2 жыл бұрын

might be able to move the jack-shaft over enough to fit the gears after the flip too

@DeathMonk069

2 жыл бұрын

As soon as he explained the pulley setup I came to see if this was mentioned.

@kylekilgore291

10 ай бұрын

I just think he’s talking out his arse about purposely Misaligning belts. No engineer would build a driven vs driver pulley system or tc that way. I like these guys but the crooked belt explanation was the cringiest thing I’ve seen on c&c

Charles adds a good energy to the shop.

You have to spin your secondary clutch around so the sheeves are in line and the belt only moves up and down.

@petedandrea528

2 жыл бұрын

You Sir took the words right out of my mouth I was gonna mention the same thing have to spin the secondary around.

@Unending_One

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah to be honest makes me cringe seeing them shrug off the fact the belt is severely misaligned. They wonder why they keep burning belts...

@GRid-yk2ru

2 жыл бұрын

Maybe they haven't been around snowmobiles enough to know any better? The 'fixed' side of the pulleys need to be opposite of each other. Then the belt will stay in alignment as the sheeves move.

@tony69774ucrazy

2 жыл бұрын

It amazes me that they refuse to put the secondary in the correct orientation. Would be so easy to setup a jackshaft to put the driven clutch on correctly, then the belt would last and not overheat.

@wayne2fast4u

2 жыл бұрын

It would go way faster too

The thing rattles like a can of paint, hangs together with zip ties and Ductape, has steering like a shopping trolley. Charles; THIS THING IS AWESOME ! !

you need to flip your secondary clutch around to get it properly aligned so it will work and last.

@rydplrs71

2 жыл бұрын

Good call. One moves left the other moves right with this setup

@BubbaB43

2 жыл бұрын

I own a kilowatt with a built 460 and 780 torque converter and although your idea is the correct setup there isn't enough room to flip the driven around because then you have to move the motor too far to the left and it gets into the frame at that point, these are very tight setups. I'm running mine the same way they're running theirs and it's been fine.

@rydplrs71

2 жыл бұрын

@@BubbaB43 if that’s the case this engine/clutch combination won’t work. Time for another cart or some custom fabrication. Clutch alignment is directly related to belt life, it is what it is.

@Unending_One

2 жыл бұрын

@@BubbaB43 as the other guy said, then come up with a different setup. There should be plenty of room with modifications as they widened the wheelbase. I burn out belts when my torq-a-verter on my minibike is only off an eighth inch, I can't imagine how fast this will burn them put with it that far.

@dbjf3

2 жыл бұрын

@@Unending_One Your right there is plenty of room especially since the secondary is lower than the motor. I just put this same setup in the back of a golf cart which is way tighter.

front-wheel drive, rear steer, articulating go-kart... that's my crazy dream build.

To get more throttle travel you just move the cable up higher on the gas pedal. If you have too much travel you can put an extension spring in line to take up any extra travel.

@AndroidAppGuy

2 жыл бұрын

^^ What upscriber said.

You guys are just having tooooo much fun! Charles has added a new dynamic to the party!

“Keep safety in mind.” OK, full face helmets all the time. You’re not gonna need one until you do. Thanks for another good video!

Last week it was the rat rod cross kart. Now it's the budget cross kart. I ❤️ it regardless.

“So the two things we’re taking care of, is the belt.” I want a t shirt with that on it.

Please take out the tree that is halfway through the woods on your right hand side. That thing gets me every time!! Love the continent 👍🏼👍🏼

I really like having Charles on the channel.

Could you flip one of the clutches so they move the same way? And for the gas peddle could you not just move the bar or cable higher up on the peddle for more movement?

You guys always make me smile. Thanks! Also, kudos on this build. I think Ike is correct in calling it a rocketship!

Have your fixed plates aligned on the converter so they line up across the minimal belt thickness. Theory is the driven will only react from the power, back is reliant on input to the front. Minimize deviation, you can do it.

Always looking forward to the awesome videos I’ve got more confidence working on stuff now just by watching all these videos 🤘

That’s so cool even the engine sounds freaking amazing

Love Ikes smile at 50 mph lol you guys keep bringing it ...thanks for all you do 😂

Goodness! You'd better check the welds and the nuts and bolts on this dirt rocket! Great job guys!

Guys!;!!! This build is also a real winner !! ,, I Reckon the build quality of the drive system and suspension and steering along with the brakeing system !!!! Then to watch Ike's ... Run 😳 Through that Forrest section !! Guys This is a very capable cart !! I was watching how connected it was to the driver and it is a desirable design . I Think this is a buitiful build so much infact I'd love one just like it . Soon I can see cars and cameras kit's and plan's , 🤪👍 great content guys !!! You bring the magic of being excited back to me!!! And inspire me so much !!! .

you need the chain case from the snowmobile guys. that’s how they adjust gearing for those belts to wind up and not slip.

@Ratkill9000

2 жыл бұрын

They need at least 10:1. The chain case will give them a 1.3:1 gear multiplication, though I have heard you can add more teeth to help, but I'm not 100% sure because they use a silent chain (timing chain style) and not a roller chain. But it would do them well to try to find that chain case in to help.

That looks like way more than 48MPH to me!

@richardosland6529

2 жыл бұрын

Just slightly

@paulred2009

2 жыл бұрын

It has potential to go way faster!!!! It needs a proper race exhaust, one pipe for each cylinder.

@hYd420

2 жыл бұрын

It looks scary as hell to me lol especially with that steering bounce and play. Ahaha going through the Forrest and across the stream. Scaryyyyy lol 😂

@joshuajackson8142

2 жыл бұрын

Needs a better pipe too!!!

@charlesstillwell1985

2 жыл бұрын

Can also rebuild secondary clutch and put stronger Springs

The secondary clutch needs to be adjusted. The belt should ride about flush with the top of the secondary clutch. This will produce a lower gear ratio. You will have to adjust the sheaves of the clutch closer together.

@CobaltOntarioadventures

2 жыл бұрын

Should actually stick out between 1/16" and 1/8"

If the weather here in Colorado looked that nice right now I'd be doing an engine conversion in my truck as we speak. Love the videos fellers.

The McMurry should be called McRowdy. That thing is awesome for its size. Great job guys 🤘

Usually the engine is in front of the secondary pulley so I would flip the belt around to work with direction of travel. Also you definitely have to take The glazing off of the clutches whether it’s with emery cloth or light grit sandpaper you will kill every belt you put on there if you don’t get rid of the glaze

You guys should look into chain tensioners for your vehicles. It will help keep you from throwing chains! LOVE THE CHANNEL!

“thank you gopowersports 😃😃” we gotta bring that back.

Charles, don't let office politics keep you from destroying them boys' lap times.

Throughout the whole video, I kept thinking that it sounds like the CVT is engaging below the torque band. I think you are on the right track with stiffer springs for the CVT engagement. Can't wait to see top speed and how quick around the track when everything is dialed in.

@juhomaki-petaja

2 жыл бұрын

Yes. Engine doesent get to its powerband

@shawnsatterlee6035

2 жыл бұрын

Torque band? Lol....

@juhomaki-petaja

2 жыл бұрын

@@shawnsatterlee6035 2stokes have very narrow power area. Usually at relatively high revs.

@shawnsatterlee6035

2 жыл бұрын

@@juhomaki-petaja no shit! All I run is 2strokes. He called it a torque band, it's a power band. But obviously that went over your head.

@juhomaki-petaja

2 жыл бұрын

@@shawnsatterlee6035 dont have to be arrogant and rude. Bit wrong term but everyone can understand it.

Congrats guys, this little kart is going to be fast as hell lol!

Charles and Isaac doing most of the work and john taking alot of the credit Hmm fishy ain't it. Charles is a great help to Isaac on most of the builds his knowledge is amazing, like Isaac.

Glad to see the Dirt Hog Tilly on the board... I still say the suspension is to springy it needs more dampening or something. Awesome build 👏 can't wait to see the final product.

@scotty362100

2 жыл бұрын

You might as well beat your head against the wall! These guys are really not very mechanically inclined, if you haven't figured that after 6 years they STILL make all the same dumb mistakes.

@stevenbonnesen5988

2 жыл бұрын

@@scotty362100 lol... well said.. they could take lessons from just about every other channel that's doing the same sort of things...

Watching Ike fine tune the throttle mechanism on this thing brings back a lot of child hood memories 🔥👍 I've used trampoline springs for brake return and throttle. 😂 Better than getting the throttle stuck wide open and running into your mom's brand new car 😆 Awesome vid guy's Loved the comparison 🔥👍✌️

Tune the suspension and find the right gearing, you've got a rocket ship just like Ike said. I have no doubt that the Yard Dart's top spot on the leader board will be lost to this beast.

you guys are awesome, been watching yall since the two car garage. thank yall for the videos

Love it guys!! You have been an inspiration!! Btw Ike my girl wants to hear about the swamp houses!! 🤣

Go power sports are good people.

Jon: I did none of the work Jon: I get first go and can complain about it not being perfect

Get a tuned expansion chamber, they are the key to extreme power in 2 strokes, you can get 18%+ in power gains

"Man that belt is toasted!!! you can flip it all the way around!!!!" ........ "The belt being offset is perfectly fine , not gona hurt a thing"

Fine tune zip ties, exactly why I watch you guys

Add secondary spring tension maybe ... allways adjustments to be made great job guys and safety is a goal and budget perfect product congrats !

The 440 motor you have is not revving out like a snowmobile motor should. Im not 100% sure if its the gearing either. Before you mess with gearing any more, I would get the slipping belt thing fixed. Convert the belt slipping to tire spinning. Awesome build, thats the way to do it. Always too much motor for the kart, then modify the kart. Love it!!!

This buggy is really cool, a light and simple frame with a ton of power is really fun, but you have to adjust the brakes, the rear tires can't lock up before the front.

you guys drive like you are racing in world rally cup such a skill you have kudos !!

I think it might be time to line your fast parts of the track with some hay bails or tyres. Watching that thing bounce around at 50 mph was making me cringe. That speed into a tree isn’t going to end well. And I want to keep seeing more of this awesome stuff from you guys.

@MrJdsenior

2 жыл бұрын

Same thought, I would suggest getting that front end and steering WORKING too, it looks terrible. Fifty into a tree would be a VERY very bad thing. It would definitely leave a mark, so to speak. In the worst smack orientation, it might even be fatal, roll cage or not.

@russellshireman

2 жыл бұрын

On that same note, the bridge needs to be a bit wider now, too.

@PKMartin

2 жыл бұрын

That little steering dart at the end of John's first top speed run (18:59) - extreme puckering

I am so happy to see all this 2 stroke content on your channel. I am really hoping that when you guys get that little kart finnished you do a "big" build with a 8-1200cc Snowmobile engine. And Build a Cross kart to go up against your CB powered kart. NOw that would be amazing to see a 2 stroke VS 4 stroke Cross Kart.

I would love to see it on an EXTENDED oval track!! My dads wife had my 400 Panther hauled away (along with everything else I had in storage) the sled was trash but the 400 Kawasaki ran like new.

I would LOVE it if y’all could get ahold of all the old 2 stroke racing quads/3 wheelers and play with them. LT500 Quadzillas, Banshees, Blasters, 250Rs, etc. ALSO would be awesome to see you restore an old Odyssey fl250, fl350, or an fl400 pilot. I know those are all rare, but y’all have the means now!!

My favorite yard cart with the 2stroke!

Man I love you guys I been watching since the first video ps y’all put out. Watching how much you guys have grown as people and as a channel seeing people come and go along the way and how you went and visited charles one time at the shop he worked at and then he made a few appearances and now… you three are a absolute dream team together. You guys can build anything and make it absolutely rip. Lol. I miss the Ducarti but I understand it’s a pure death trap lol. I used to have a Honda Odyssey. Yellow with the half rolecage and one headlight. Pull start 80cc snowmobile motor. I think you guys should find a old odyssey and try to revamp it. Those things are so much fun with the balloon tires and the solid rear axle and front suspension she loves to bounce. Not to mention the dope ass steering wheel that aircraft style with the finger throttle and brake levers. I think y’all should do a odyssey 100 percent. Keep up the dope work gentlemen. From johns parents garage to your own dope ass property into a small cramped old shack of a workspace and now your own giant garage and workshop. Love how you guys have grown as a whole! Thanks for keeping me entertained and always looking forward for the next video!

@jacksonaxelson58

2 жыл бұрын

Try changing the muffler on the murry to for more power

@marklewis5984

2 жыл бұрын

Skill and personality aside, the only reason Charles got the job was so John could get his hands on Charles's left handed tools. jk.

@Thatdamfishingguy

2 жыл бұрын

@@marklewis5984 hahaha

@bryduhbikeguy

2 жыл бұрын

@@marklewis5984 It is pretty hard to find a left-handed metric crescent wrench.

You can also Mount the seeds straight to the floor pan like I did mine and give you plenty of legroom and don't feel like you're sitting up in the sky anymore. I've got a pro car race seat in mine but mouse up the same way as the original tracks.

"Let me crank it up and see if you can roll it around." Hahaha so good You guys don't have just a channel,... you have a brotherhood.

Your loose zip ties on the throttle cable could result in a stuck throttle cable. If they’re not fixed in place they could move effectively adjusting your throttle cable.

@CarsandCameras

2 жыл бұрын

Yeah, we should fix that lol

@seabeepirate

2 жыл бұрын

It’ll be fine!

Great work guys. I love your content! I might suggest you look at reinforcing the roll cage with the power you are starting yo get. I would hate to see one of you get hurt again if you roll that cart.

Great video. Looks like a fun ride. You can make gearing changes and that'll change your top speed but I think if you want it really make a significant change to your track time you're going to need to work on suspension. You're having to get out of the throttle because of the bumps so you just need more travel in your suspension and even better tires for traction. That way you can stay in the throttle in the wheels will always be on the ground gaining more speed.

GUYS! Get the sleeve adaptor to use Polaris clutches on that driveshaft. Specific taper alignment blah blah blah. Get the spring and weight kits (EPT Clutch kit). Probably gotta do another belt 🤷 and someone mentioned primary to secondary alignment. Check that too! But yeah I LOVE THIS BUILD!!!!

If you moved the cable attaching point up on the pedal it will give you more throw on the throttle. I built a go cart with a snowmobile engine back in the 80's, it was scary fast! Enjoy your new ride, it's a nice one.

Really enjoy the channel. Appreciate y'all.

Driven pulley should have stiffer positions when you remove snap ring an get to the spring locks in to little holes witch SHOULD have mulitiple holes for stiffer and softer.

@sethstojak809

2 жыл бұрын

You are absolutely correct, that driven pulley needs way more tension. If the last hole isn't enough definitely a higher rate spring

Love your videos keep making them as you can see

@elden4267

2 жыл бұрын

you are the first

At 16:52 you can see the belt is still too long which will explain the bogging and will make you think its gearing after use changed it . I would try that shorter belt

I've been a fan since the beginning... This was the first episode ever where I flatout got irritated. I cringed really hard when Ike shrugged off the massively misaligned belt... and then when you repeatedly mention changing the gearing to fix the slipping belt and ignore the misalignment I got frustrated. Until you fix the misalignment you'll keep cooking belts, mark my words.

@tony69774ucrazy

2 жыл бұрын

Ike says ‘it’ll be fine”. No it won’t

You can adjust the clutches too. The ramp on the driven comes in different angles and the spring preload is adjustable to.

When you can see the bump steer from the on board footage, you know that thing has to be sketch at high speed.

@trevawhitmoyer682

2 жыл бұрын

Terrifying!!

idk about anyone else but I would really like to see a 5 point harness on this thing. I would really hate to hear that something went bad with one of these machines and somebody gets seriously hurt.

@jaydensdream714

2 жыл бұрын

I would rather be thrown from this buggy than buckled in. Roll bars are bolt on and very low strength.

I had been a snowmobile enthusiast for about ten years. and worked on CVT systems, and I can tell you that the alignment between the primary clutch and the secondary clutch is crucial. because the belt should stay straight. between both clutches though out the operation of the CVT system. once that is achieved then you have experiment with springs and weights. something else CVT systems need to be vented so they don't overheat. they made kits for snowmobiles to put vents in the chassis and the hood on the sleds.

@MrJdsenior

2 жыл бұрын

Sounds like maybe you should listen to this guy. Also sounds like I guessed the mechanism right, never having seen one.

@shawnsatterlee6035

2 жыл бұрын

Nah. You're over thinking things. If so smart you would have noticed that the new belt is also longer than should be.

@Lucas12v

2 жыл бұрын

@@shawnsatterlee6035 Those problems aren't mutually exclusive. They need to flip the driven pulley so that it moves the belt the same way as the drive pulley. I'm guessing they know that though so there's probably a reason that they didn't. Not enough space most likely.

@shawnsatterlee6035

2 жыл бұрын

@@Lucas12v if u flip the driven pulley how exactly do u expect to operate as should? Maybe think about it for a second. That or u have no idea how the driven pulley actually works.

@Lucas12v

2 жыл бұрын

@@shawnsatterlee6035 Honestly, i didn't look very closely at the setup they are using but i know cvt's aren't supposed to have the two pulleys move the belt in opposition directions as the rpms come up. The logical assumption is that one of them is on backwards and it can't be the one on the engine. Not all can be on backwards but some can.

you can flip the driven side of that pulley mechanism around so they both squeeze towards the same side. that might help with belt slip and heat.

the 2 stroke race kart needs to be brought back! that thing will be so freaking fast!

I'd love to see you guys make some sorta junk cart series where you build carts outta whatever you can find

Looks like some of your bump steer is coming from your sprung spindles. With your front axle tipped back for caster it puts the centerline on your hub off. So when that spindle is going up and down on your kingpin, it’s pulling and pushing the tire in and out in the front. Watched it on the slo mo.

The rear shocks could be softened a smidge by moving the top shock forward Abit. The video shows kts Abit stif and bouncy in the rear end! Great build, can't wait to watch more!!!!

@72mardy

2 жыл бұрын

The shocks are shit. There's basically zero rebound....they are just pogo sticks. These guys need to start putting decent quality shock absorbers on their projects before someone gets seriously hurt.

This one's gonna be a winner, I can feel it, but those pulleys just don't seem right, guys. Call me crazy, but I always thought that the fixed side of both pulleys should be on the same side so the alignment isn't constantly changing. Meaning you may need to flip the secondary and realign them. Time to start googling and checking the snowmobile side of YT again.

@MrJdsenior

2 жыл бұрын

I know almost nothing about these CVTs and I can tell that you are precisely correct if that is what they have happening now. This CVT obviously isn't working right now. Having the pulleys misaligned, dynamically or otherwise, is maybe about instant death for the belt, too. I think these run steel or kevlar (or something) belts internally, to stay very longitudinally dimensionally stiff, ie not elongate much under load, and to keep the efficiency up.

You need a piece of steel stock like 1/4" to 3/8" straight edge that you can use to line up the clutches and should stop it from chewing up belts. You place it all the way down to the shaft on the clutch on motor and if I recall my schooling and it must rest up against the inside edge then open up the drive/rear clutch and place the straight edge down in it to the shaft. When it sits even with no angle or what not then I believe it would be lined up properly. Please forgive me if I'm wrong as it has been a very long time since I went to school for small engine repair.

Changing weights in the clutch can help alot too

That looks like a right laugh 😃. Well earned sub from England 🇬🇧

Ike, I think you could hook a spring through the hole in the throttle rod that the cotter pin was in. Hook it through the end of the rod and attach the other end to a bracket behind the rod so the spring pulls the rod back. Just need to bend a piece of steel , drill a small hole in it and weld it to the frame. Whoop!

Had the same problem with my snowmobile buggy and I was runing bigger tires but I changed the weights in the clutch worked grate.

Awesome progress guys, loving the evolution of this kart! Jack shaft and shorter belt sounds like the way forward for the gearing.

“….But he didn’t do Tires for a decade …..” 😂🤣👍😀 you tell ‘em!

Moving on up.... To the top.... Got a deluxe set belt on my ride....

I hope Chris at RBW gets another shot with some of his projects. He's got some good ones too. Thanks for the vids! 😎

0:31 certified gap welder 101

Can't wait to see this thing at Busco at some point

Charles drives like an old man. Haha. Great build guys

it seems that the belt is still too long, it grabs initialy and then shifts too far out when the belt gets tight. thus overgearing it off the initial clamping of the belt

@mopedmessiah

2 жыл бұрын

Agreed. Looks good in the rear, but that drive pulley is a lil loose

Has anyone mentioned the weld just above the left rear shock mount to the frame? It's just a tack. The front suspension design looks great! I love watching you guys!

It's gonna go head to head with the mini cross kart..... Only thing that'll be able to keep up with it.... 😆

Holy crap that's fast!! And it's faster than the Honduki? That's crazy!! Seems like a little weight in the front would help the wheels from jumping. I would probably be terrified after riding that lol.

You boys may want to think about getting a fuel cell and some overalls. Looking at the position of that tank outside the rollcage, in proximity to that hot exhaust gives me the chills. Your engineering work is really improving compared to some of the sketchy stuff I saw when I first started watching. Great to see.

That belt looks a little loose...probably starting in 1st and a half gear... also a tighter spring on the secondary clutch...That will get rid of the rpm drop after launching and let the engine hit peak rpm immediately...Im a snowmobile mechanic in Michigan...awesome build fellas

Wow that looks like a lotta fun

Just a suggestion regarding safety but I think you should add some crossbars to the top of the roll cage! Maybe even one on each side as well! If that thing's in a rollover those bars that you currently have will bend and buckle! I just want to see y'all safe! It'll be fine only goes so far until your arm is broken or possibly worse next time!

For the throttle you could raise where the bar meets the pedal which would give a longer throw

CarsandCameras is alright👍 Just good’old family fun!😃