Please forgive the rather light editing pass this got, we had to halve the editing time to get this video out before it was too late for it to be topical. Next week we'll be returning to normal content and not chasing after news. We just had to debate our thoughts together anyway so why not make an episode about it? ...Also I'm still not sorry for my theory about old-marines. Someone had to rip that band-aid off for you.

@priestking8636

Жыл бұрын

I am extremely disappointed with terminators. Loayal cost 33 pts with better survivability and damaging wargear (dmg3 hammers), while scm ones 36 and pay fpr loadout. You can say that they have more attacks and Ld, but does it really cpst 3 more points per model AND wargear, while other stuff in game like plasmainceptors cost like dirt?

@Zabzim

Жыл бұрын

Yo! Tzangor aren’t demons mate! They are beastmen and well entrenched in lore although since you’ve only played for 3 years you most certainly missed that lore and possibly weren’t alive when the lore was written.

@Drew_Thompson

Жыл бұрын

20:00 i disagree with you on old marines. Mind you i don't play them but the lore seems to be setting up that at the very least the black templars dont trust them and will never adopt them short of Dorn coming back and forcing them to.

@Zabzim

Жыл бұрын

@@Drew_Thompson if Dorn came back I expect he first thing he would is force the black templars¹ to disband or be exterminated! The second thing would probably be declaring war on the ecclesiachy. By the way, that thing about the black templars not liking primerus is just a bit of nonsense they’re gonna fall in line like everyone else and Dorn isn’t going to come back unless games workshop want to literally split the imperium into two separate factions. For as far as Rogal Dorn is concerned, god worship cannot be allowed be it chaos or imperial. ¹you probably don’t know this but the literature the black templars preach was written by Lorgar primarch of the Word Bearers and architect of the Horace Heresy!

@timunderbakke8756

Жыл бұрын

@@Drew_Thompson they’re not consistent on that. Helbrecht crossed the rubicon. Some Templars are accepting them.

You don't have to tell people to buy tzaangor, you just end up with them. You can't use em, but you end up with them

@Necroid9001

Жыл бұрын

Anytime you buy TSons minis, a box of Tzaangors spontaneously manifests in your pile of shame

@alexanderandrews6980

Жыл бұрын

I use them to kitbash Corrupted Sororitas.

@ericholman8081

Жыл бұрын

I've never even bought Tsons and I have tzaangors somehow.

@okonkwojones

Жыл бұрын

@@ericholman8081 I bought one questoris knight and I have 48 tzaangor

@DissentingDogLevi

Жыл бұрын

I hate those models. It's like 3 sprues and one them is arms and chests

You forgot the best part about the Flamer changes, now you can use the Tzeentch warp storm ability to improve their ballistic skill

Honestly, the super power fantasy of SM being elite just doesn't work primarily because of their sheer popularity. Over half of the armies in the game are some variety of SM, which means that by definition they become the baseline. Not the elite. For balance purposes they have to be designed to be the average that the rest of the game revolves around. I've maintained for years, that the best thing that could happen for SM is if half of the current SM players switched to other armies.

@buriedalive3192

Жыл бұрын

They could still be an elite army, with points-wise more expensive units that are more powerful. However, with GW seemingly trying to discourage the horde armies of old (with many weak, squishy guards, orks, etc..), those armies are getting more and more elite, and catching up to the elite armies. I do agree though, it would do the whole game a lot of good if half of the SM players switched.

@Bluecho4

Жыл бұрын

SM being less elite would also bring them more in line with their original flavor from Rogue Trader. Where they weren't these transhuman demigods. They were just regular human jackoffs in power armor, high on combat drugs.

@Dracosian4802

Жыл бұрын

I still think gaurd should become the poster faction. They are normal humans (so easier to understand), they the main defenders of humanity and they are actually close the standard of 40k.

@timunderbakke8756

Жыл бұрын

@@Dracosian4802 the problem is folks come for the space marines. At least, most of them do. It’s too late to change that train 30+ years later.

@Dracosian4802

Жыл бұрын

@@timunderbakke8756 oh I fully agree, it is almost without question too late to change. I still think that guard should have been the cover faction but they are less known than space marines outside of 40k now and I both think I won't and couldn't change

Magnus losing AoC and staying at 420 pts was just mind boggling to me

@omenmarin7903

Жыл бұрын

Does anyone play him? I don't see him much in battle reports, nor don't see him in general

@hansyolo8277

Жыл бұрын

@@omenmarin7903 Yeah the demon Primarchs just aren't good, with or without AoC. You can just shoot them, they don't get protection. So they almost always get wiped off the table turn 1, or turn 2.

@andrewhughes7181

Жыл бұрын

Morty is good. But that’s because he was built from the ground up to be tough.

"If you play farsight enclaves, they HATE you" That's definitely the impression I get :( I just wanna play The Eight, cause they're cool. Is that so much to ask? Yes apparently.

@jonathanharris9717

Жыл бұрын

The worse part is that FSE were never the problem. It was Allied Worlds FSE. Literally just regular Tau with Ethereals, but using the FSE drop Stratagem. Dumbest shit ever.

"Armor of contempt is one sixth of the damage you were taking" Oh no. Noooooooo..... Suppose you had a 3+ save, and was getting hit by a ap-2 weapon. Your save became 5+. Every 6 wounds you took (Round numbers to make it obvious), you would save 2. You take 4. Armor of contempt made your save 4+. So same 6 base wounds, you now took 3. Thats a 25% reduction in the damage you take. The worst possible case scenario, where armor of contempt got a no save to a 6+, thats one sixth of the damage taken that was reduced. On the best case, it took a 3+ back to 2+, and halved the damage you were taking. In short - it was a *lot* bigger than a base 1/6th damage reduction.

@hatox4491

Жыл бұрын

This needs to be higher up, AoC was most annoying when it was on stuff with a 2+ that could get cover, cause it basically *halved* the damage that AP-2 weapons did and was still a 33% reduction to ap-3

@Krasshirsch

Жыл бұрын

This is a bad example as you take a statistical probability and test it through a single occurence. If you flip a coin, the chance of heads or tails is 50%, however, if you only flip the coin three times you will end up with 100%/0% or 66%/33%. On average the amount of damage reduced by armor of contempt will settle at 1/6th, that does not mean that every roll in every fight will also be at 1/6th.

@hatox4491

Жыл бұрын

@@Krasshirsch To tell the actual average damage reduction we would need to know the average save characteristic, and I doubt any of us want to look through all of the models, how much they get brought, and calculate what the average save characteristic of models that had AoC is. For a bit more in depth statistic, there are 6 cases of how much damage AoC reduces: Case 1: AoC didnt change the save (e.g. the enemy is using AP 0 weapons, the enemy has high enough AP that you get pushed to your invulnerable save anyway or the enemy has high enough AP that you dont get a save anyway) in this case AoC reduces the damage by 0% Case 2: AoC lets you save on a 2+, without it wouldve been a 3+: Damage is reduced by 50% Case 3: AoC lets you save on a 3+, without it wouldve been a: Damage is reduced by 33% Case 4: AoC lets you save on a 4+, without it wouldve been a 5+: Damage is reduced by 25% Case 5: AoC lets you save on a 5+, without it wouldve been a 6+: Damage is reduced by 20% Case 6: AoC lets you save on a 6+, without it you wouldnt have gotten a save: Damage is reduced by 16.7% (this is the 1/6th reduction) There is a BIG difference between "AoC is usefull 1/6 of the time, and prevents damage in 1 out of 6 rolls" and "Aoc reduces the damage by 1/6", the first statement is correct (except in Case 0), the second statement is only correct in Case 6

@Krasshirsch

Жыл бұрын

@@hatox4491 _To tell the actual average damage reduction we would need to know the average save characteristic_ That is incorrect, again you use a single sample to validate or invalidate a statistical probability, which is not how that works. Let's illustrate with the smallest useful sample size: 6 attacks Bolter on random saves. And let's assume uniformly distributed rolls as that will be the average given enough games. This means we will assume the 6 save rolls will be 1,2,3,4,5,6. On a 3+ armor save, we roll: 1: Always fails, AoC does nothing. 2: We save as with AoC !! 3,4,5,6: We save. On a 5+ armor save we roll: 1: Always fails, AoC does nothing. 2,3: We fail. 4: We save with AoC !! 5,6: We save Regardless of the save, apart from a 2+ save without AP, 1 out of 6 rolls with flip from fail to save on average for 6 attacks. And so will the damage as AoC will thus prevent 1 out of 6 damage for damage 1 weapons and 5 out of 30 for damage 5 weapons both of which is 1/6.

@MrPizzamoe

Жыл бұрын

@@Krasshirsch Ah this is a discussion I had at length with a friend of mine (about a different game, but same principle). In practice stacking additive percentage reductions becomes more valuable, the more they approach 100%. E.G. reducing a 100 dmg hit by 90% to 10 dmg taken instead of 80% to 20 taken results in taking half as much damage as before. Looking at the initial damage without any reductions applied tho, going from 0% reduction to 10% reduction is the same as going from 80% to 90% (both times the initial 100 dmg is reduced by 10). So you are both correct, it's just a different point of view. Since we are talking about a rule being removed, it is imho more intuitive to ask yourself how the dmg you take (or in this case, dmg you save against) is being affected by the rule change, not the absolute reduction. In conclusion: going from a +2 save to a +3 save means, that you now take dmg 2/6th of the time instead of 1/6th of the time. So relatively you fail twice as many saving throws now, while absolutely, you save 1/6th less.

Tempest Of War is easily the best format for 40k, and I'm always glad to see content creators recognize this.

@michaelcallahan6537

Жыл бұрын

9th edition sure, 3.5 was by far more balanced and fair. Lowest army was 46% highest was 55%

@Infinity_Coda

Жыл бұрын

@@michaelcallahan6537 I believe it, but am unable to confirm, I didn't even learn what 40k was until I was a teenager and had friends who played 5th haha

@malakimphoros2164

Жыл бұрын

​@@michaelcallahan6537WRONG, tournament data is insufficient and innacurate "Balance" wasn't a concern back then

@nimmha6708

Жыл бұрын

@@malakimphoros2164 Yup, it was ALWAYS so bad, that once GW even stated: "we are not a game company, but a miniature company that provides rules for the mini's"

The combat doctrine change is really funny because that is exactly how it worked in 8th edition. It's part of what enabled the Iron Hands to be the most OP army in the game for a brief time.

@piotrjeske4599

Жыл бұрын

So they will be OP till summer. Edition resets and marines will be back to normal.

@mawkishwarden172

Жыл бұрын

Literally a textbook case of history repeating itself. It's like GW forgot the whole reason the turn limitations for Combat Doctrines was implemented in the first place.

@Kibbet21

Жыл бұрын

I personally welcome the fact 9th ed is dying like 8th did

Gotta say getting into this channel just two weeks ago has been one of the luckiest finds on youtube, the analysis is great, the hosts and banter is amazing and the cherry on top is the quality between visual and audio. The cherry on top of the cherry is any time I get to hear random tangents or rants. Keep up the good work guys!

New Poorhammer dropped but I have a Zoom meeting in 5 minutes??? gotta make sure I´m muted I guess

@coma-cody

Жыл бұрын

Funny, I literally am in the same predicament. Wednesdays am I right, LoL

1:23:00 When setting up tables at home, I always take the biggest model from either army and move it between all the terrain pieces, spacing them apart to create lanes of movement; so you can have both lots of terrain, and at least 2 or 3 options for super heavies to cross the table.

space marines are now a horde army, if you want elite space marine type troops you have to go custard creams, i have just had a silly idea why not paint custards as regular marines :)

@leovaeg

Жыл бұрын

that would actually look pretty cool!

@joriankell1983

Жыл бұрын

No

Wow, as one of the 2 40k fans looking to get back in with the Genestealer Cult to boost the army player count up to 6, it's nice they finally got something new.

I totally agree that GW needs to give some lore to Bela'kor to justify his push, but the reason why they're doing it is that he IS getting a push in AoS. So... his 40K push is basically just a side-effect

@Grimmlocked

Жыл бұрын

he's also a really popular magic the gathering commander now... so someone coming into the game might want to use his model

Okay, one thing to note is that a +1 to save means different things depending on what your save characteristic already is. Same thing goes for To Hit values and whatnot. There's a reason why Orks struggle so much against units that have -1ToHit. Going from 5+ to 6+ To Hit is *halving* your damage. Same goes for saves. Going from 3+ to 2+ saves, *halves* the damage you're taking. That being said, you also have to factor in the prevalence of various AP values. So many people are like "if AP-1 is so good against Marines, and they have AoC, then just bring AP-2 weapons. Simple as." Problem is, you can't name an army that can spec into AP-2 weapons efficiently. AP-2 barely exists in the game. Almost universally, you have AP0/-1 weapons for high volume anti-infantry weapons, and AP-3+ for mid-low volume anti-tank/elite weapons, and very few armies can go wide with anti-elite ranged weapons. Thus, AoC basically created a situation where a Marine in cover could only reliably be dealt with by low volume shots, but they are infantry and you can bring 50+ of them. Thus it always felt bad for people going into Marines, knowing that very little you do can be efficient into them. Marines still weren't *good* because their points were jacked up, but AoC was more a "feels-bad" thing for others than it was a powerful thing for Marines.

@kevin-yb4fg

Жыл бұрын

Yeah ifelt that the damage I could do was so nerfed from it that it felt bad as a BA player who can only really operate in one phase anyways and even worse against other AoC armies. I like be able to play the mission and trade more effectively with more units on the table even if they are more squishy. And with terminators only at 33 points I'll just run 10 on them and support with plasma inceptors and sang guard and a bike captain and bike chaplain and sang priest. I like these changes quite a lot and I think it will make the games for fun to play

@peterstewart7332

Жыл бұрын

Yeah man, he was completely wrong talking about how it was a 1/6th increase in damage taken. Only when going from no save to a 6+ is that accurate. Everywhere else the effect is much more profound.

@siegfried1422

Жыл бұрын

I'm just glad that my dedicated Anti-elite gun in Imperial Knights, the Helverins Autocannons, actually does well into Elites now.

Flamers change is to solve the overwatch problem, not the damage problem. It's lore stupid, sure, but it solves the problem rather deftly.

@jameswatson1951

Жыл бұрын

I would have preferred a big damage nerf but still auto hit so they can have stronger overwatch. Last codex flamers were also pistols so they could shoot in combat. Now as soon as they get charged they get shut down and their save in combat is bad yet they are short ranged. They now feel like a one use item rather than a normal unit.

@idonotlikethisonebit

Жыл бұрын

@@jameswatson1951 Considering the fact their one weakness that was baked into their unit was CC is a problem..... when you can't get into CC with them because of their ridiculous auto hit ability. That's like having a weakness to fire and fire immunity.... you can't utilize the weakness when your strength over shadows it

@alexdewey1503

Жыл бұрын

Chaos daemons is already lacking in shooters. Given that they only have a 12 inch range too it helped to know you had overwatch. But now the only flamers in the game don't auto hit. They should have changed the shots to D3 +3

While you were talking about the stompa, I was thinking: could you do an episode about the worst units of all the factions? I think that would be very interesting design-wise... and very entertaining

Look at the good side. Now you can atleast use 4 Warpstorm points, to boost the flamers ballistic skill to a 2, just like you can with the lord of change :)

As someone who does video editing for a living and who enjoys snarky humor, I want you all to know I highly appreciated the Text Crawl at the beginning of the episode.

"Nurgle is in healthy spot" Sounds bad.

@thepoorhammerpodcast

Жыл бұрын

I didn't even catch that when I said it. Peak unintentional comedy.

"At some point we're just working out how much a tank that can maybe occasionally blow stuff up is worth" Ahaha i was doing this math about Deathstrikes before the new gaurd codex, at what point is a semi durable vehicle that does nothing taken simply to hold your backline objective and not die Also brass scorpion went down points and can now be taken in the main detachment AND Vashtorr is coming The time is now

Honestly the Gorgon list for Tyranids wasn't touched, and honestly. that list was slept on.

@dr.stronk9857

Жыл бұрын

There are a few people in the tyranid discord that sometimes bring up “The Gorgon Bible” the few who do use gorgon are dedicated lol

As someone who likes and almost exclusively plays Disciples of Be'Lakor, I gotta say there's some pretty spicy takes about him in here. Be careful talking about our Dark Master like that.

I don't think Firstborns are going to go away, only because GW understands that a lot of the Horus Heresy miniatures are going to also find their way into 40k lists. A lot of kits will drift over to legends, but at least some kind of First-born are probably here to stay. Also, I kind of love the IDEA of Be'lakor, as a named and prominent rival to Abaddon who wants his position as Warmaster of Chaos. We are always told Abaddon is fending off rivals and jealously protecting his position and independence. And here is an actual threat that Abaddon has to keep in check. It's a chaos character for ancient veterans that never really let go of the 'Failbaddon' memes. The Fantasy / AoS lore with his rivalry with Archaon is really neat. But yeah, they need to put out some books and personality for his 40k incarnation.

Always good to watch a new poorhammer in the morning

Important thing to point out about Armour of Contempt: The change is MUCH greater than just "1/6th more saves". It has a greater effect the better your saves were to begin with. The difference between going from a 2+ and a 3+ is twice as many failed saves. A full 100% increase in damage taken, which obviously is huge. That same difference going from, for example, a 5+ to a 6+ results 25% additional failed saves. Much less impactful.

This might not be a popular take but I would like to see factions like tyrannids and guard become "inverse elite armies" where instead the chaff are on a big base which has a little diorama on it as a "squadron" or company. Have that take a bunch of points and give them hero traits based on the veterancy or history of the company. Also the solution to making the spacemarines more fluffy would be to flesh out the lore of scouts, acolytes and Chapter serfs. We have already established that these chapters are feudal lords with throngs of attendants and behind every space marine is a dozen recruits. Well, lets get the interns. Make little upgrade sprues for ig boxes so they can become "The Defenders of Baal" or whatever. CSM can have their cultists and slaves, Emperor's children can have their abominations. Otherwise space marines attach with gaurd or play as diet custodes, as they were supposed to.

Enjoy the content, appreciate the angles on the army's, good luck in the future

Started listening on Spotify and I love this new KZread format. Editing is great

Only recently found you guys and I gotta say very very quickly becoming my favourite 40k podcast channel

Just found your guy’s videos I’ve been loving them so far.

The only channel I can watch in 1.75 speed. I don't know how you sound on normal speed, but you must be really chill! :D

I didn’t realize how bad the FSE changes really felt until you spelled it out, I mean we still have the free markerlights but the commander limitation is a pain in the ass unless they faq to let us take an allied patrol of our own faction, or use the strat to take another commander, however from the way the strat is worded, it seemed like they specifically worded it that way with limiting farsight enclaves in mind

I think the main issue with auto hitting flamers was that their one weakness was supposed to be melee, but they shredded charging units on overwatch, and this change kinda fixes it. But the flavor is still hilarious.

Great content for my morning thanks team 🙏

Grey Knights need an overall rework, both for balance on the table top and to make them consistent with lore. Theyre supposed to be these overpowered demon hunters, but for every advantqge they have they have an in-built corresponding disadvatage. Theyre "decent" at a bunch of things, and they have "ok" tools in their toolbox that can do almost anything. But at best, still "ok". They're record for tournament wins is near the bottom.

As a lore guy, my hype is unbound for a good lore rant.

really great video, it was great to listen to at work

I hope this channel gets like 150k subscribers this year cuz you guys are awesome

Love your takes as always. You guys are amazing, and have a good thought process that is fun to listen to. I really think they want to get rid of old-marines, they are just having trouble. Also, you mentioned on your previous podcasts you were looking for sound editors, is that still a thing? And to remind you one last time, the flamers don't auto-hit.

The problem with Flamers of Tzeench wasnt their number of shots. It was that you couldnt charge them.

You two are about to get algorithmed to the damn moon. Love the show

Real glad I found these guys last week, solid content. Plus these guys seem to be just avg players or at least come that perspective.

daym , subscriber closing in on 10k people seem to loving it :) great !

"The editor is also a charlatan. Couldn't even bend this text 45 degrees" Maaan thanks I needed the laugh :D

Hearing points complaints about models is weird when you're a Knight player hah. I think our Kaldor Draigo equivalent is like 460-ish for a tanky Abominant who can still be blown off the table in a turn if you're unlucky?

Death Guard with a knight is also something nice. Some heavy support as the rest of your stuff lumbers across the board. Still wish DG could work like space Marines and just have a squad all with the same special weapon Also, I just found you guys like a week ago but really love your content

Well, seems my GSC are finally 1. remembered and 2. Pretty ok!

As an Ork player i'm mostly happy; my only gripe is the detachment limit on specialist units staying in place.

The funny part is that the warpstorm power you complained about for the +1 to hit now works on flamers and if you have a lord of change it rerolls ones. So you can actually keep the super flamer damage if you want to, it requires a tzeentch only army but it is possible. If anything it encourages bringing 18 flamers because you want max value out of the 4 warpstorm points

I primarily play Custodes and I recently played a Arks of Omen detachment Tempest game and I allied in two Helverins. It was honestly disgusting how effective they were with Mysterious Guardian.

I love Be'lakor! And I wish we get functional Chaos soup back, even for Black Legion which is basicly unaligned and should be able to take all, especially lore wise

What's funny is that Arks of Omen actually fucks Guard Troop spam, because there's a maximum.

The text scroll had me dying🤣🤣

Oh me oh my, they weren't kidding about the hot takes 😅 some things they said gave me whiplash with how fast I tilted my head in confusion

What I would like to see one day is Wysiwyg done away with and you can play with any GW plastic, as long as the general model and weapons fit the general silhouette of the model it's supposed to represent even at GW official events. Then add custom relics or war gear rule options for generic units and HQ's in each faction to represent the old "legend" options, homebrew and kit bashes. I think it would really help with the bloat and make the transition from out of date kits to new ones for future editions a LOT smoother while adding a fun creative encouragement choice for people to spice up their armys, kitbash and use their old models.

Speaking of new awkward gear options, now Blood Angels can equip entire units with fusion pistols for free. Some people may argue that having 40+ fusion pistols for free is OP, but that's actually balanced because no one is likely to have that many models assembled with fusion pistols. If there's some absolute mad lad who has that many models assembled that way, let him have fun for the next few months until that shit is toned down again, he deserves it.

@idonotlikethisonebit

Жыл бұрын

I get around that problem by just giving them a pistol holder. You can just say to the TO that it is a pistol weapon, not needing to specify the weapon in question

Great video, as someone who plays against grey knights a lot I won’t be shedding tears that a paladin can’t get tide of shadows+AoC+armored resilience anymore hahaahaha

I would really appreciate if your HQ choice effected how you build your list. Something like take HQ X and your Paladins cost -x amount less, take a Imperial Fist HQ and suddenly your bolter units fuck shit up and so on, basically a HQ for every fantasy of an army. But I guess that will never happen.

I play Szarekhan dynasty and i love it. I know how rules work. I DESPISED the obsec dynasty due to the blandness of it. Now, with the reworked command protocols I'm one tough cron to keep down and i'm having a blast.

I will scream it from the rooftops for all eternity but they just need to make salamanders non-codex compliant and give them their own units (like pyroclasts which for some reason don't exist in 40K in any form other than the namesake of a chapter company). They get no attention from gw and have a relatively small following compared to most other SM chapters (joining iron hands on gw's shit-list lol). They've been a major player in very few important (not even that important in the long run) post-heresy events (3rd war for Armageddon off the top of my head), but were of course overshadowed by the Black Templars and Yarrick. The death of firstborn is basically the last nail in the coffin for Salamanders since most of your units will have a hand flamer and that's it. Any special/heavy flamer/melta weapons will be folded into 3-man squads and combi weapons will almost cease to exist.

My theory for flamers is they lost auto hit because the one way to kill them reliably is in combat but auto hitting with their insane profile made it too hard to charge into them to counter them for most players. The problem is in demons list you can make then hit on 2s and reroll to hit and wound so they are still just as bad if you put in the effort to boost them.

so having a listen I head your rant about the supreme commanders like SK, morty and whatnot not being able to be added to an arcs of omen detachment but I dont see that ruling anywhere, they would just take up a super heavy slot in the detachment instead, otherwise the same can be said for guliman, shadowsun, abadon etc as they too have the supreme commander keyword alongside any others they may have. So it is possible, but the dynasty lock/faction lock for keywords on some still is true

Ah yes, the Shooters of Tzeentch.

Just wanted to comment on what you said about Aoc being 16% more toughness technically your kinda right since the save is basically just one higher but in game its pretty different, for instance terminators against -1ap with aoc save on 2s without aoc they save on 3s this means they fail twice as many saves compared to before, same is true for higher ap values but with lower percentages.

I run primaris only space wolves, and the points drops gave me 600 pts to my list. I'm going to take so many assault intercessors

Jokes on you as a noob to 40k and sisters I HAVE AN UNHEALTHY OBSESSION WITH THE IMMOLATOR.

Never played table I have read and listened to every piece of lore available lol you guys ar entertaining

Tzaangor, Tzaangor, Little Demon Boy Sad-gor, Sad-gor, Much Like a Broken Toy No-lore, No-Lore, Will Not Ever Deploy Tzaangor, Tzaangor, Too Cute to Just Destroy

The star wars text intro was hilarious ahahahahahahahhahah

If they said “Stop playing old Marines” Space wolves wouldn’t actually have an army….. just a thought from a SW player.

this is the content I want

Votann changes Thunderkyn are back to what they were price wise. Everything else but the Pioneers went up a little bit (1-3 usually). Cause for some reason gw didn’t see Pioneers as an issue yet

I was pretty sad Thousand Sons didn’t get anything meaningful. I might try the helbrute anyway.

In regards to the Harlequin nerf. From a design point it makes sense. Most ppl don't realize this but Harlequins have a HUGE amount of survivability due to passive aura's and other shenanigans (+6" range to opponents weapons that got reverted, -1 to wound from shield from harm, movement being so high they can start their turns behind obscuring terrain and do a single devastating one turn hit and run,ect.) that their 4++ was just a HUGE boost of survivability. It's like going through 4 steps of challenges only for the final one to be a coin flip. Making them 5++ means that IF they are caught out, it will be more costly.... again that is a big and i mean BIG IF, cause a good harlequins player will end the turn with majority of their army either in one sided CC or out of LOS of any counter fire, ready to go next turn. Harlequins are a prime example of Hard to master army, but when you do it doesn't matter what your opponent is doing, you are playing a single player experience in a competitive multiplayer game

This is why I still love 3rd edition.

For me The tyranid nerf hurts alot because I was just about to begin collecting and making an army with them, so I never got to experience them on top

FYI The Silent King, Mortarion, etc, are all Lords of War. So they can go in the Arks of Omen detachment.

The flamer change was mainly to stop overwatch being a death sentence for charging units

I know I've heard of the Witchseeker Flamer Bus before, but is there anything more to it than just stuffing as many Witchseekers as possible into a SoS Rhino?

With esteemed amalgam being once per game you only get to change shieldhost once per game, with one unit for one turn though?

When you have a slow week: I _would_ watch/listen to a dedicated 20 minute storytime rant about the botched history of Tzaangors...

Man, that comment about Magnus costing so much is really funny when you remember Mr "I have a 16 move and 39 attacks" aka Angron is like, idk... 320 points? 360 points?

GW forgot imperial and chaos knights. Yea about that. They only remember we exist about once per year.

I think they could do civil war type event when the lion returns and they could split the marine book into primaris and first-born

Missed a BIG part of the Flamer nerf: 3+ save against shooting, Tzeentch is weak to melee at 6+ in melee. Flamers auto-hitting meant you would 100% lose a unit when charging them to overwatch, and you'd have to charge two units to even get into melee. No longer auto-hitting on Overwatch means there's counterplay. *That's* why they removed the autohit and not the flat +3 shots. Edit 2: Brad, the Exalted Flamer, the *"Flamer that flames better than other Flamers"*, has never had an auto-hit profile. There is precedence for the change. Edit: I am 99% sure the whole Supreme Commander thing is wrong. The Supreme Commander detachment itself can only include those models, but nothing ever prevented you from taking them inside your normal detachment like any other HQ/LoW model. You just always took the SupCom one because it saved an HQ slot.

@Susanoo0097

Жыл бұрын

this comment 100% how was this huge thing missed in the podcast?

As someone who's new with 40k and just starting to build a Dark Angels / Deathwing list, it's incredibly annoying to me that my only option to get Obsec Terminators now is to throw out the other half of my army. I love Deathwing Terminators but I don't want them to be my entire list - great introduction to the game to buy a bunch of units and then get it eff'ed up immediately.

@jameswatson1951

Жыл бұрын

I feel the same. When collecting dark angels the best part is getting to paint 3 different colour schemes so you so don’t get bored: green, back and bone. Now that’s discouraged if you want to win.

@ldeming

Жыл бұрын

@@jameswatson1951 absolutely

I was REALLY excited when they announced Vashtor. He fits the theme I want to make for my CSM exactly. Now that things are coming into fruition, I don't think I'm even going to touch 40k till 10th. I'd have to buy (or even just pour over) 5 books of rules to put this army together, with the end result being jank. Compare that to my AOS Orcs; 3 books which I already own and streamlined rules. This seems like a terrible time to get back into 40k, especially if you live in an area where you'd be required to buy instead of pirate the rules.

@mrcaterpillow9926

Жыл бұрын

There is a way to do it without, having to buy all these books. Head to Wahapedia, and they will probably have all of the rules you could ever need. If you are just learning the game, take the rules slowly and don't overwhelm yourself.

@JordanR

Жыл бұрын

@mrcaterpillow9926 Not worth it. Wait till 10th.

@mrcaterpillow9926

Жыл бұрын

@@JordanR Ah yes wait until 10th, the edition that is rumored to be releasing in 6 months maybe more. Oh fucking, let the dude just get into the game now and learn how to play the basics from a free source. 10th edition will probably have the same rules as 9th with minor adjustments.

12:35 I completely agree. Playing Tempest of War is the best way to enjoy 9th ed

In regards to flamers, the issue was never and still isn't the amount of Hits. It is overwatch. They are the fastest flamers in the Game, they dont care about any Terrain, they have the best Support, AND they are Defensive Monsters.. Not only can you Just fly accross the map and easy kill a whole unit(you can still do that), you then get a 3+ save against range which they will never die at range ever, AND you were 100% save From any melee attempt, Just obliterating ANY unit trying to charge them. Where you always needed to sacrifice one unit to get in close with another. I played them the Moment the Codex leaked and never lost a Game in my playgroup again for 2 month

On the topic of GKs. Regarding AoC "value", while I agree it was overblown, the argument of "it is 1/6th for AP -1, -2, -3" is incorrect. A unit with 2+ save (most of your army in tide of shadows / cover / termies), receive 1 wound out of 6 after saves, while with 3+ they receive 2 wounds out of 6. This meant that AoC resulted in twice as many -1AP attacks needed to be made against 2+ Sv units for the same result, meaning a 100% increase in effective wounds. There is a good article in Goonhammer's hammer of math comparing what the point drop needs to look like to compensate for the loss of AoC. With this in mind, GKs are not really putting that many more bodies in the table to compensate for the loss of durability, but have become more killy vs certain armies due to their average low AP. My take is that they are not going to be much different as they were. I.E., not great. Biggest problem remains being secondaries. In a meta with armies that get free 30 secondary points, GKs struggle to get past that mark in contested games. You will need each psychic test to be a power, not an action, you cannot teleport your whole army every turn, and even struggle to teleport "something" that will actually kill a unit in a turn, and the global secondaries are not great for elite armies. All in all, I don't think GKs will be past the 45% win rate average through the season, but hopefully I am wrong

The biggest problem for T'au is the Flyer nerfs destroy our 'Psychic' Phase. Which means phase capped models (like your Tankthirster) are an insane problem for us, especially outside of FSE.

I think I’m also salty against the “free wargear” because it’s painting the old marines like the Primaris: the mono-weapon squad. Keep that in heresy. 40k should never have had mono weapon squads

My gripe with killing old marines is not being able to build the rogue trader cover crew

1:0:06 "Why did you choose the stupidest solution over the infinite solutions in the entire universe!?" How very Thousand Sons of you~!

Not going to lie I like the flamer change.

i tabled a chaos space marine player turn 4 yesterday, i don't know how anyone else can view our very minor point hike as a nerf considering that everyone else lost so much more, especially armor of contempt. even my single sunshark was still useful

I started grey knights because I thought they were coolest not the best, I got termi’s because they were cool not good but even I’m sad they’re not cheaper after this update

I'm just here for the mechanized ork lists in AoO. Bring back the old Tin 'Eads army