How effective are Russian Mig 25/31s vs bogs. Ie the Foxbats/Foxhounds using R33/40 missiles.

@grimreapers

2 жыл бұрын

From memory they didn't do well: kzread.info/dash/bejne/e4qm0tl_l7uclsY.html

@jameshewitt8828

2 жыл бұрын

@@grimreapers I love you Cap haha, hopefully can meet up at RIAT or something

@Archer89201

2 жыл бұрын

Well Foxbat has the only confirmed air to air kill against Hornet (1st Gulf war) and maybe even F-14s in Iran-iraq

@oldmanjenkins38

2 жыл бұрын

Alright. You got me. I don’t play DCS or any flying games. My father was a pilot. Retired air force (he has to explain the terminology you guys use). I’m a driver. Love the videos so much I’m a Patreon member now. I blame Grump. He’s a legend.

This scenario shows flaws in the AI. The F14s flew right into the fleet AA range and into the swarm of SAMs. In addition the F14s stayed supersonic instead of slowing down to dogfight and evasive speeds. I'd like to see this with more humans on both sides along with the ability for squadrons to RTB and rearm.

19:41: I'm am NOT a real F-14 pilot, but from what I've heard, an F-14 could get airborne with 6x AIM-54s. The problem was, they couldn't land with all six still onboard. And no one wanted to jettison multiple $2.7M USD (inflation adjusted) missiles into the sea.

@Savage_Viking

2 жыл бұрын

True.

@grimreapers

2 жыл бұрын

agree

@cassiespencer6134

2 жыл бұрын

You could in fact trap with six although it required a significant reduction in fuel, only 2K lbs for the D model, in order to remain below max gross trap weight. Note: with six, and their rails, you’re looking at ~8700lbs.

I am an USAF veteran of the 70's and I have to say DCS gets a few things quite wrong about guided munitions from that era. I worked as a missile guidance and control specialist (included guided bombs) and they were quite readily available to both the USAF and USN and were used in Vietnam. The Maverick had both optical guidance (100% kill rate when fired with target lock) as well as a passive radar guidance with a white phosphorous warheads used against SAM radar. These should have been available to your 70's naval planes instead of using dumb bombs. The AIM 7 and AIM 9 kill rates when fired with target lock (against the era planes) had kill rates close to 100% also. Laser guided bombs were quite accurate at the time . This tech was available and used in the early 70's. Other munitions were in the development stage at the time that DCS considers new weaponry such as guided ship launched missiles as well as cruise missiles.

@calmac938

2 жыл бұрын

I haven't heard of a Maverick with a WP warhead and passive radar homing, what is it called?

@OverlordAntares

2 жыл бұрын

I thought the Sparrows Kill Rate was abysmal, though. I'm not too sure.

@control_the_pet_population

2 жыл бұрын

@OverlordAntares The early models used in Vietnam were indeed pretty abysmal, but they were designed to see a large radar reflection from a large, barely maneuvering target. It wasn't initially meant to be a dogfight missile but a bomber intercept missile. Also, when you factor in that BVR was largely prohibited in the Vietnam theater, it took away the primary advantage that the Sparrow had. If pilots had been allowed to fire against older low tech MiG-17s in full BVR engagements, they likely would have been far more successful. All that said, those were mid/late 60s versions. I believe there was a much improved version introduced in the early/mid 70s which had a roughly 70% kill rate in the 1991 Gulf War.

@OverlordAntares

2 жыл бұрын

@@control_the_pet_population Gotcha, I know Sparrows had a lot of BVR kills in the Gulf War, as well as some Sidewinder kills.

@jotabe1984

2 жыл бұрын

well yes Michael, what you say is correct, by last years of vietnam there were already some TV guided bombs and laser bombs being used... but the fact is that A4E was in fact used in the 60s (along with the F4 Phantom II) and pods for dropping guided bombs was adopted in the later A4M, which required the radar to be removed in order to fit the equipment. The correct USNavy 70's CV air group should be tomcats + A6 Intruder with smartbombs and/or Maverick AGM. A4E could use the Bullpup, but i think it is not modded in the game. Last but not least... late Vietnam AIM-9G was quite better, but even the revolutionary AIM-9L isn't that big of a threat against a modern aircraft with improved flare programs. AIM-7 had a great kill ratio against aircraft without (or very basic) RWR and pilots not trained for BVR engagement

On my recent deployments, we would use 1 AIM-120, 2 9X's, 1 AGM-65, and 2 JDAMS. This seems to be our universal load out at the moment.

@Pman353

2 жыл бұрын

But what would you do for air superiority?

@Anderson_Hwang

2 жыл бұрын

That's because they were flying close air support missions, typical CENTCOM loadout. A recent video from the Truman CSG showcased an F/A-18E carrying 6 AMRAAMs and 2 9Xs

Why can't the newer carrier get planes off as fast? Two words, "Safety Briefs".. LOL

@RossOneEyed

2 жыл бұрын

Gotta have your PT belt on, as well.

@timblack6422

2 жыл бұрын

@@RossOneEyed everything is safer with a PT belt on!

@lb7144

2 жыл бұрын

FOD walk

@david7384

2 жыл бұрын

ALL PILOTS STANDBY FOR EMERGENCY CAP hold up sir, you're 12 hrs behind on your daily sexual harassment and diversity class

@greggstrasser5791

2 жыл бұрын

To many soyboiz calling Crew Rest.

I just love seeing the veterans and engineers commenting on what they worked with back in the day. A quality contribution to a quality channel.

@grimreapers

2 жыл бұрын

agree

So one thing I noticed: There's a tactical flaw here on the part of the '70s carrier group. The F-14s being unable to dodge the AMRAAMs at full speed is indeed a serious problem, but the Phoenix has a longer range. That being the case, once the Tomcats are within range to start firing at the Hornets, they should throttle back to improve maneuverability, thus reducing hit probability for their opponents, and also increasing the time before the F-18s come into the AMRAAM's range. This allows the deployment of even more AIM-54s, and more Hornet kills before they can mount a counterattack. The option would even exist to "kite" the Hornets, using the F-14's superior thrust to maintain a range that makes it difficult for the Hornets to return fire. Have the F-14s hang out and pick off the Hornets in this way until they achieve total air superiority, then it's basically lunchtime for the Skyhawks. Edit: The reduced speed also eliminates the SAM threat from the enemy carrier group.

I have to say Cap, you often overarm the F-18s in these sims. Its lovely to have 12 missiles onboard, but as you see they cant even get supersonic and so can't really sling their -120s. Especially the first couple bogs would really really benefit from only carrying 6, or even just 2 so they can get fast and get a couple missiles off which would break up the tomcats. Still good fun to watch, keep at it!

@liuziyue462

2 жыл бұрын

Cap always overarm fighters which they would never did in real life.

@ryz_vik

2 жыл бұрын

@@liuziyue462 Cap doing Cap things, am I right?

@liuziyue462

2 жыл бұрын

@@ryz_vik So true

In reality, the Phoenix had a range of 400 miles, 0-100,000ft. The F14 radar could lock up to 6 targets at > 200 miles and launch on all 6 while tracking up to 24. I am not familiar with the modern missiles (I worked for the DOD before Hornets were even announced). In this scenario, the F14s could have engaged as soon as the were airborne and detecting Hornets.

Having the F-14's getting too close to the ships really skewed the results. Without that, the red team would have had more time for ground attack, not to mention less F-18's getting to the island in the first place. Enjoyed the simulation

That was one of the most unbelievable twists at the end ever. It looked like modern has the win.

This was so close it deserves another run. I’d bet if it was all humans things might turn out different. The Tomcats wouldn’t over pursue like the AI did and the Hornets would be able to use their advantage of more modern electronics too. Another AI simulation is still something that would be interesting. Are there not A-6 Intruders in DCS? I love watching y’all’s videos but other than that don’t know what is and isn’t included.

@pogo1140

2 жыл бұрын

Using AI, launch the F-14's after the A-4's. This would take into account the A-4's slower speed and allow the Tomcats to arrive over the island at about the same time as the A-4's. This should also solve the issue of the F-14's having to fight inside the SM-2 umbrella and the Hornets not getting into the fight early

@WalrusWinking

2 жыл бұрын

There are AI A-6s there's been some talk and screenshots of an A-6 module I believe but I read it was extremely early in development.

@firestarteronyoutube5542

2 жыл бұрын

There is an A-6 mod but it's WIP. Only carries dumb bombs at the moment

@kskeel1124

2 жыл бұрын

Most A-6s were retired before the 2000s

@josephbrandon549

2 жыл бұрын

With all due respect to how much time it takes to prepare these simulations, this was a crap battle. There is NO way the F-14s would close to within SM-2 range. ZERO chance. They would provide air cover for the A-4s and stay over the island and not close. If this battle showed that? Then the 1970s carrier group would won without all the loss of the F-14s.

"Mach 4 telegraph pole" is an awesome description for a missile.

I wonder how the fight would have gone with "Attack within radius" instructions. I know it's not the "Default setting", but it is better tactics if the defined mission is "Protect the CAS guys for the mission of destroying ground targets." This isn't really testing what was the better airwing, rather which airwing is better suited to the predefined AI instructions, IMHO.

An early 2000's carrier group tended to have at least 12 tomcats in a squadron with the ability to run ground attack like the hornet.

Absolutely disagree with you on the "silly turning around". That is precisely what you would do. You get to keep your formation of the flight, it gives you time to build altitude, keeps in the air defence umbrella while you are at your most vulnerable . Going off piecemeal is a damn good way to get outnumbered in CAP.

Whether this was super realistic or not…. That’s for people more knowledgeable about this subject than me to decide, you cannot deny how freaking exciting this was to watch. That ending was insane!

This is my favorite channel right now. I don't even play the game, but come from the old days of JSF, Comanche Maximum Overkill, and F-117 combat flight sim days and this channel is so damn interesting to watch. The history, the facts, the simulation, and the serious tone of it is absolutely engaging. Good show everyone, cheers!

@Forthecasuals

2 жыл бұрын

You should find a way onto the service. You will never regret it. Even at it's worst moments, it's a treat to play.

@spyous7884

2 жыл бұрын

I dont think most of us even play the game. Its so resource intensive it requires an arm and a leg to get atleast a semi functional setup to keep dcs running.

@JD96893

2 жыл бұрын

@@spyous7884 kind of, it actually doesn't run too bad in 1080p, 2k is a lot harder though. A 1000$ pc would probably do pretty well. PC prices are normalizing though and you can use for more than just DCS. I think the most expensive part is gear, a decent stick(VKB NXT) costs 150$, track IR another 50$, and a cheap throttle like 100$. I'd say these are all necessary, imo they make a world of difference.

@hooptiej

2 жыл бұрын

@@JD96893 its not the $1k PC thats the issue, its the extra 10s of hundreds in HOTAS and/or Headset

@JD96893

2 жыл бұрын

@@hooptiej basically what i said, but you don't need to spend more than 300$ to get a decent set up with a hotas and track ir. There aren't many budget options but they are there! You don't need to spend 500$ on a WINWING hotas setup and 200$ on track IR5 or whatever that POS is called. At the end of the day, if it's what you love doing/are passionate about it you'll shell out 500$ on a hotas. Maybe not all at once though. Most people that play DCS are really passionate about aviation and military aviation and with how good DCS i can see why people play so much and are willing to get a good setup. Just look at the amount of A10 and F18 sim pits there are for DCS.

"How did they manage that?" Inaccurate modeling of ECM.

That one was interesting. I have a few comments. 1) The Tomcats' behaviour where they loiter and circle after launch would make sense in some circumstances. Obviously if the F-14 is launching as Alert-5 to intercept an incoming threat to the fleet, they should burn out hard for speed and altitude immediately. The sooner they get into range the further away from the fleet the threat gets interdicted. However, with a mission profile where the orders are to proceed to a waypoint and fly CAP, forming up their wingpairs and flights before proceeding would be good practice. In this scenario getting into CAP a couple mins earlier won't make much difference, but unit cohesion might. 2) I don't know if there's any way to program the Tomcats not to approach into SM2 range of the fleet? 3) I think one trick missed would have been to give the 2000s fleet some electronic warfare Hornets. I suspect a bit of jamming might degrade the Pheonix' tracking noticeably. Not sure exactly what's available in the game, but you get the idea.

@RobertWilliams-us4kw

2 жыл бұрын

Again, I'm not aware of the aircraft choices in DCS, but Grumman EA-6B's Prowler's began transitioning to the Boeing EA-18G Growler's from 2009 IIRC. Regards Rob

That was exciting! I reckon if the Tomcats had better self preservation tactics that would have been so much easier. Excellent stuff!

By far the best one of these you have ran! very entertaining!

I'm just wondering if there would've been any difference with using an A-6 versus the A-4. Is the Intruder not available in DCS?

I watched this last night and have come back to give the thumbs up / subscribe and say that I very much enjoyed this video. Well done.

While this is a great game and simulator, it would be interesting to see the 70's carrier vs Super Hornets and F35s. In either simulation, I don't see ECM and other technology that would probably make the Phoenix not as effective as it is here.

Agreed, the Tomcat is one of the best looking planes ever!

A hell of a fight, I really enjoyed this video 🤘

Outstanding GR! Keep it up. More like this

Why not 14Bs in the 2000s group? They would have still have had them until 2006; 2004, commonly.

@grimreapers

2 жыл бұрын

B model was 80's.

@seosaidh

2 жыл бұрын

@@grimreapers …right. Which is why I was asking why they weren’t included in the 2000s group? I sort of thought “early 2000s” would have still had them. Am I missing something?

You can see the insane speed of those SM-2's. This was really fun to watch.

I used to live in Guam and spend a lot of time in Saipan... I love how you set these battles out there.

This was quite funny and entertaining. Your commentary is adding like 1000% 😀

Glad your voice is back and all recovered Cap👍💪

@grimreapers

2 жыл бұрын

yup

The 70's carrier group had f-4s and F8 crusaders as well as a few different aircraft.

Great video. With sensible AI for the F-14s, it wouldn’t have been close, the 70s group would rule the day.

So glad I'm subscribed! This is what I like to see. All glory to our historic fleet when the weaponry was designed to be used for maximum death eg. end of days scenarios. It doesn't matter if it runs on propellers strings and weights as long as it gets the first kill. I don't think its the weaponry that makes the difference in todays battles. Its the information speed at which you can identify what exactly was killed and what to target next, where you are, who or what is coming at you and how close your support is makes all the difference. Older pilots had a paper map, radar blip and a radio and two eyes.

That SAM wall just changed the whole landscape. You're right if the AI was a little smarter and proper doctrine would have been to fall back and guard the A4's near the objective.

What i want to know is, could a US Carrier group beat the a joint force of WinWing, Ridge Wallet and Manscape sponsorship adverts.

This battle needs the DCS Cinematic treatment.

What gets me the A-4's in the 70's (not 70 - early 72) would have been using the AGM-65 Mavericks just like the F-18's are using.

@RobertWilliams-us4kw

2 жыл бұрын

Not to mention Martin Marietta AGM-62 Walleye, with it's 113kg (250 lb) explosive warhead...... Regards Rob

This is a banger of a video CAP! That finish was crazy!

honnestly this was Superbowl kinda thrill , thank you ! got me on the edge of my seat !

The 1970s F-14 team would have been even more effective if you made them start spawning the A-4Es before the F-14s finish spawning. Basically make first 3 F-14 + 1 A-4E, then the rest all 2 F-14 + 2 A-4Es until there are not more of either A-4E or F-14. Then it is all catapults for the remaining aircraft.

This has got to be the most edge-of-my-seat video ever!!!

Great video! Thank you for share!

Really enjoyed it...thank you✌👍

Brilliant, one of the best yet!! 🙂

This was just brilliant. Love it 😀

This was awesome thanks, Cap.

A very good contest real nerve ending stuff. good to watch. great video.

Great Vid GR, thanks!

Cool video. The strike package could be more interesting with a mix of A-4s & A-6s. Really enjoyed this video. Well done.

Exciting episode! Nail biting stuff.

I’ve been aboard the Forrestal when it went for refit in Philly is 1982-1985, I believe. Three days up, three days down.

That was VERY exciting! I'll be the first to admit that CAP's animated commentary raised the thrill level.

There's some pretty interesting documentaries out there where they used old decommissioned Phoenix missiles to test hypersonic missiles. It was such a massive missile that they had the room to play with. Pretty awesome watch if you have some time

15:00 i just cryyyy from the mk60 missile description!!!!

Hot damn, you weren't lying with your thumbnail cap. This was bloody entertaining 😎😄 P.S. If there are Tomcats involved I can't bet against them. Just too damn sexy.

Would be interesting to see this again if the Cats had not gone into range of the ship defences.

This Sim is really awesome cap! I really love these naval videos!

And yes you could certainly land a tomcat with 6 Phoenix missles on board, it just leaves little extra gas for time around the boat

This was such an amazing video!

Nice fight, nice video. Thanks guys.

Whenever I see an F14 I hear Burt Reynolds' Trans Am from the movie Cannonball Run. When I see an F18 I hear the sound of the Japanese entry into the same movie. Great vid guys. Love to see that one with real pilots.

Hey Cap, video idea - it would be cool to see a re-enactment of the major fictional battles in the Tom Clancy novel "Red Storm Rising", basically what if the cold war went hot in the 80's. Some pretty interesting scenarios like Russian surprise attack and invasion of Keflavik, Iceland and it being re-taken by US forces in an amphibious assault, surprise Badger bomber attack on a US naval carrier group including a simultaneous decoy attack, and the US using A-10's and early stealth technology to defend the Fulda Gap from a Russian tank blitz. Love the channel and content!

@grimreapers

2 жыл бұрын

cool

What a clutch game, good job fellas!

Great vid. Amazing ending. 👍

Pumping the video's out! love it more then i should

Awesome finish! Ouh boy... Nice battle

Fun Sim! FWIW I remember talking with a Phantom crew flying off the Coral Sea, as they explained they were able to compete with Nimitz/F-14 because they were forced to use better tactics. They had older more experienced crews that were more efficient at launches and recoveries and at fighting their older aircraft. That's not to say the AIM-54 wasn't a game changer.

That was bloody epic

Maverick development dates to the 60s, believe it or not. Entered service in the early 70s, and been upgraded repeatedly.

Tomcat going to wipe the floor with the 18

WOW! that was fun to watch

That was great! You earned a sub!👍

@grimreapers

2 жыл бұрын

Welcome!

WOW! Was cheering at the screen at the end, the battle kept getting the tables turned back and forth... Slow A-4s pulled it out at the end I can't believe it. I thought the modern planes had the ground attack win guaranteed omg! Ha haaa!!! So awesome! :D

The reason the F14 circles the carrier is to pick up thier Wingman. Ward Carroll talks about this on his KZread channel

Hey Cap. I love your videos and find them really entertaining (and I'm always commenting on them, so I must be one of your most annoying customers). This type of video is fun and all, all this slugfest of missiles going up and down is very interesting (I really believe that the Chinese use GR videos as instructional videos). Anyway, would there be a way to set up this mission where the F-14s and the Bogs would go to a certain waypoint over the island and set a BARCAP? That way the Tomcats wouldn't be mindlessly charging up to SM-2s range and it would be interesting to see how the Bogs would far against the "best naval aircraft ever made" without their shipmates protective umbrella.

Would love to see this run with alternating waves of Tom's & F4's launching + Tomcats avoiding Sams. How many total planes were lost on each side?

Wow, my heart rate was up there at the end. More twists than an M. Night Shyamalan movie.

That was EXCITING!

Legacy hornets always fly double bubble IE 2 fuel tanks and empty centerline during carrier operations. We bombed the hell out of the Serbs in 1995-96 (VFA-82). Has to do with bring back weight. We were flying lot 10s and the Marines VMFA251 flew lot 18s. Marines also had a harm missile come off on landing and Skip across the flight deck right in front of me. I was on L4 working on a plane.

An exciting finish. Always good to hear Cap squeal. 🤣

Nice one,!😁

I worked the flight deck of the kitty hawk in the late 90’s early 2000’s. Brown shirt on 18’s. Cool video.

Remember that winwing technology is your ultimate hardware solution :) 20

@grimreapers

2 жыл бұрын

yup sure is

Kind of shows you how much the USN could use a dedicated air superiority fighter/interceptor. A naval version of something like the F22 should have been built. The Tomcats speed was impressive. Cool simulation!

We need a Grim Reapers bingo or drinking game. I suggest “dans le visage” on the board. 🤣

Will be amazing to see this battle scenario with real guys. Hornets will be out of gas real quick

11:05 - Ward Carroll mentioned in a video on his channel (I think it was a video on 'being a good wingman" that the flight lead will circle over the carrier until their wingman/flight is in formation around them before they head out. You're probably right that this wouldn't happen in the given scenario, but there is actually a reason you'd "turn around" in a Tomcat.

Thanks Perfect !

How is this got me on the edge of my seat watching!? I never dreamt about looking for simulated aerial battles...but here I am. Like button and subscribed! TY Grim Reapers!

@grimreapers

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Chris! Welcome to the madhouse...

8:58 I'm rooting for the Tomcats, they are the better plane in every category except maintenance. Though I am wondering what kept them from being set up as 6-gun since that's something that they should be capable of. YAY!!! Fabulous finish!

Hey Cap this was a great Video and maybe you should do some more like this, or with two different forces and they have to do both air and ground fighting. It would be nice to see an Invasion type force and a Defending Country. But with everything involved that would be involved in an Invasion. Be nice to see a NATO N. Korea Invasion fight... I was just reviewing this video and it gave me some ideas. What you do with them is up to you, but I am sure it will be good!!!

@jmtpolitico80

Жыл бұрын

I forgot to mention you have made a few videos kinda like what I just described, but I was thinking of something that none of us would want to happen, but actually really could happen and happen at anytime in the near future...

Asfmr navy vet been out since late 80s i never thought i see the sweet 16s vs the dont ask dont tells lol but this was interesting to say

You guys should do a recreation of Iron Eagle, 2 F-16's vs 6 or so Mirage fighters, plus taking out the ground targets.

Cobbled up the same scenario in Harpoon, with period ships/aircraft/loadouts. Same result; left with 1 vehicle left, oddly. Was able to preserve my aircraft and go after the 2000's group.

Gotta say that ending was pretty spectacular.

Good video!