Good god if only I could get Tom and Gunblue together for a few beers it would be life changing. Note book would be needed. I’d pick their brains till they had enough lol. Tom you need to write a book so we have this experience and knowledge for ever.

Thanks Tom! I'm following along on this ride. Curious to see how things pan out.

Put a lightweight leupold scope and a sling on it and let that dog hunt. Beautiful rifle!!! LOVE YOUR VIDEOS TOM!!!

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Leon!

I really appreciate your honest and hyperbole free presentation style. Also enjoying your other channel. Interestingly, I have the same chronograph and it won't talk to my phone either!

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Ben, and I did a search awhile about on this issue with it not connecting to my phone and that just seems to be a thing with certain Android devices. It works perfectly with Joey's IPhone.

Great video!

Great content!!! Barrel harmonics are the reason a shorter, stiffer barrel has potential to be more accurate and precise.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Absolutely but then you have to give up some velocity for the trade off which can also cost you at distance. The faster the bullet gets there the less time there is for it to be affect by wind or gravity.

IMR 4831 is a slow burning powder it works good in a 25-06 and a 300 weatherby.

I had a 270 wsm barreled to a 1-7 twist. The first time they made the barrel the throat was over .5 long They put a different barrel on but now I have the same problem with a very tight throat which is causing pressure problems. I'm getting a very hard bolt lift at 3 grains under the factory barrel. Anyway my point is that a tube heats up differently than a solid bar. At some point the I.D. of the bore will actually shrink with heat instead of expanding while the O.D will grow. That may be the vertical stringing you're seeing.

In order for my Caldwell Chronograph to work on my Android, I had to go into Settings > Apps > Chronograph > Permissions and manually turn on permission for the app to use the microphone and audio. It needs those to get the signal through the audio cord, but for some reason it doesn't request them. That being said, I still prefer to just read the number off the screen and write it in my notebook.

Outstanding . Doing the same on a Ruger No1 and very helpful indeed

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Mel, at some point I'm going to try shooting this rifle without the forend on it just out of curiosity. It seems like all of the issues with the No1 and 1885 go back to that forend so it would be interesting to see if completely removing it makes any difference?

@melmayne6744

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving What a great idea. I have some time booked on the range next week, I'll let you know how I get on

Thanks Tom! What a fantastic project rifle. A nostalgic rifle platform with a rather new cartridge and it is all very interesting. My daughters 65CM is an absolute tack driver in accuracy. We didn't spend a lot of $ and got her a Savage Axis. That rifle really likes that 147gr Hornaday ELDM bullet. It likes the 4350 class of powders ~42gr and likes about a .020 jump, but that's her rifle. Although it is a target round, it is a very capable hunter. I am working up a Nosler Partition load for deer season. Hunting with Hornaday target bullets is not very sensible. I see a lot of guys doing it and the bullet isn't constructed for hunting. It's a good way to lose a wounded deer. Great video Tom. Thanks!

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

I couldn't agree more about hunting with target bullets, and I also have no doubt it will be a great hunting round especially with a partition. As for the rifle, my goal is to show that a 140 year old out dated design is still just as accurate as anything else.

@Jeff_Seely

Жыл бұрын

Lol. I guess I missed the point here. Yessir, what a great gun. I like simple (which is the theme of your channel). You can complicate anything to the point of folly. Well this rifle is a beautiful demonstration of how a strong, basic single-shot action can turn in some great results and I love to see that unfold. And BTW I am probably the biggest fan of the Nosler Partition of anyone I know. In 1948 John Nosler developed that projectile and from there, a great company materialized and flourished. I realize deer aren't hard animals to kill but they can be if you don't recognize what is effective in killing them. I haven't used anything but the Partition in my 270 for my whole adult life because it has proven effective at killing deer, time after time. If I were to ever have the privilege to hunt elk, I'd probably switch over to the Accubond in order to gain the benefits of bonded strength to kill a much heartier animal. Thank you John for a truly great video series. I really do enjoy them and so do my wife and my daughters!

Really enjoyed this video as a fellow reloader

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Charles, and as a fellow reloader I'm really enjoying doing this whole series!

Cool Getting there.. Good Luck I have no ideal n might of missed it.. Charge weight ..i had a couple of RUMs shot great just above starting loads then went south as went up till close to max then back great.. Just tossing that out there forya.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Michael, this one is pretty much the same but I'm sticking close to the starting charge just because velocity really doesn't matter for what I;m doing here.

Beautiful rifle and I’m glad to see that the potential is there for it to shoot as good as it looks!!!! I’m still hunting one, found a older model in 6mm rem that I may scoop up(browning version)

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Bartcephus, I absolutely love the 6mm cartridge along with the only other cartridge based on the 7x57 case. With that said I would check the bore on that one with a bore scope if you can. The 6mm is a little overbore just like the 243 so barrel isn't going to be as long on them as some other cartridges and those Brownings are starting to get long in the tooth on age. So long as it hasn't had a ton of rounds through it it will be an outstanding rifle.

@TherealBartcephus

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving I believe the barrel has been swapped to a Shilen barrel if I remember right. The man that owns it has shot many competitions with it. It has one of those long long long fixed power scopes on it

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

@@TherealBartcephus I would definitely check the bore in the case unless you really trust the guy and he says that it hasn't fired many rounds. I don't think twice about buying older firearms but the older the firearm the more particular I am about not getting an overbore cartridge. And I would really be warry of a competition shooter. They change barrels like most of us change tires on our cars because of all of the shooting they do.

Great video, as always. You definitely peaked my interest talking about barrel harmonics. I'd really appreciate more info on that

@tacticalmattfoley

Жыл бұрын

Barrel harmonics are the reason a shorter, stiffer barrel has potential to be more accurate and precise. It's the reason companies are sticking thick 16in barrels in 308 bolt action rifles.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Thanks 308 guy and that's something I want to get into when I stretch out the distance and start shooting further because it's easy to see all of that in practice at distance.

@jasonrottlaender1721

Жыл бұрын

Yes it's true that a shorter barrel is stiffer and easier to tune a load for. But they don't get the velocity that a longer barrel will. So the long range shooters add tuners to their barrel. Browning had the boss tuners back in the day. Not very popular cas they looked horrible and people didn't understand the concept.

@tacticalmattfoley

Жыл бұрын

@@jasonrottlaender1721 I had a BAR with BOSS. It worked well and the rifle was accurate. I'm specifically talking about 308win for a shorter barrel.

Looks like you've got a good rifle there, and as she breaks in it should do even better. Nice video!

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Thanks Kent, and she certainly is showing some serious potential!

Thanks Tom.I really like your projects,great videos.With the purely vertical spread would it be worth considering forend bedding or possibly the scope? Stuart.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Stuart, I checked the forend and it actually has a 2 point bedding in it where it attaches to the hanger to keep it from moving. My suspicion is just needs more clearance? I'm going to try and shoot it without the forend on at all in the future but for now I'm going to see if we can come up with a load that will do what we need? And I think the scope is fine?

👍👍

Well, the shooter is not the weak link in the accuracy equation-really makes me wonder what was going on with the lite weight Win M-70’s?! Still think some upward fore-end pressure on the barrel would tighten them up!

Hi Tom, why did you not clean the barrel from the onset and removed all the copper and carbon fouling? Surely a clean bright barrel will ensure the projectile to travel at the velocity, and with the right bullet, achieve the accuracy as expected, using a couple of different factory ammunition, just my view.

Your story about the WWII Lee Endfield is a captivating one. How could a massively produced rifle be tuned so precisely as to have an harmonic vibration so finely calibrated that it would release the 175 grain bullet at the high point of vibration and the 150 bullet at the low point of vibration, thereby delivering a similar ballistic trajectory for both bullets, when we are talking about infinitesimal adjustments required for each rifle?

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Jean that was something I read about the Lee Enfields from a guy that wrote a self published book on accurizing them. I still have that somewhere but best I can remember he said the armorers made the adjustments and that they adjust the fit of the forearm to get the timing right. Now how much time and effort they put into or for how long that was implemented I can't say. I just remember being fascinated that it was done at all that far back.

@H.R.6688

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving i have a no4 mk1* i un sportrized. At the end of the lower forearm, it's made to put upward pressure on the barrel.

Again, I like that IMR 4350. Just to check on the vertical variation, Spomer was either having that or stringing on his Dakota 10 .25-06 and moved his rifle forward on the rest so the action was pretty much sitting on the rest near the lever. You might try that, just to see, but it looked a little unbalanced and your barrel may be heavier than his. Maybe inch it back a little at a time.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

CBSBASS, moving the rest back was one of the first adjustments I made with this rifle and that's something I've been paying a lot of attention to. And I get to check it every shot because the lever hit's the rest and won't eject the case if it's too close so I make sure it's at just the right spot. But one of the things I want to try later is shooting without the forearm on it at all just to see what that does?

@fedup3582

Жыл бұрын

What if you put small washers between the hanger and forearm wood to increase barrel clearance from the forearm?

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

@@fedup3582 That's not a bad idea but it would change the fit at the action. I'm probably going to end up just removing some wood in the barrel channel to create more clearance but I do hope to find a stable load before I start trouble shooting.

@fedup3582

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving but it would be a simple way of seeing if it would help, that could easily be reversed, before doing something more permanent.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

@@fedup3582 That could work but right now everything seems to be working itself out so I'm just going to let it be for now.

Looks like 2760fps range in those 130's. Those 140"s might like it too if you can reach it. Try seating test 3thou deep, 3,6,9

Tom chime in

So, if I understand you on the throat...that's cut after the rifling (or was it CHF'?)...and wasn't evenly reamed, such that there's part of a smooth throat...with some of the rifling all the way at the beginning around the rest? Can that be cleaned up with more reaming? That wouldn't have been a defect worth a replacement? Also like that recoil pad you're wearing. Back in the day, one could buy a shotgun vest with that built in too. But, I can't seem to find one anywhere. Any sources you might suggest? Thanks, and really appreciate your work to produce this channel.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Your understanding is correct MD. The chamber and throat are remeamed after the rifling is cut and the rifling didn't quite clean up all of the way in the throat. The reamer had to be slightly off center from the bore or it would have cleaned up all of the way around or still had lands all of the way around but I think this is more from the reamer being undersized rather than off center? The bullets wouldn't be tight in the throat if it were just off center. And the recoil pad is a Past recoil pad and you might be able to get one from Amazon? But I know Midway USA has them. It doesn't make a world of difference but it does help especially with older rifles that have a hard plastic or steel butt plate. And remember the old shooting shirts and jackets as well. I have a new Browning shooting shirt that has some padding in the shoulder but it isn't much. I hope that helps?

@MD-mm1zv

Жыл бұрын

It does, Tom. I occasionally dabble in tailoring, so, mebbe I’ll find a couple beer koozies to use for padding, and whip something out. Lol. Keep up the great work you’re doing. Really enjoy your channel.

Just a quick question Tom. Is there a reason why you need a higher pressure load? I doubt you will be using ELDM bullets for killing deer so if you are wanting to take this beautiful rifle out to harvest a buck, maybe it a bullet such as an Accubonds or a Partition Will give you better load development results. But I can tell you from personal experience that the 65 Creedmoor has more than enough energy to kill a deer up to 300 yards, and that's regardless of your powder charge. From what I've seen, the rifle is very accurate. God bless you my friend!

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

No Jeff, and I'm not looking for higher velocities for target shooting. I just thought it was curious how all of the groups seem to fall apart once the velocities start getting up. And I'm wondering if that has something to with the vertical movement?

I've experienced that with the throat in some rifles myself, I call them ghost lands. Tgey will go away relatively quickly just with shooting due to them being so faint and throat erosion.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

HR, I was wondering if they would go away from normal cleaning and shooting? I did notice that when I broke in the barrel they seemed to be showing up less and less especially after cleaning with JB bore cleaner.

@tacticalmattfoley

Жыл бұрын

Couldn't ghost lands be polished out of the throat with very, very fine grit sandpaper on some kind of jig??

@H.R.6688

Жыл бұрын

@@tacticalmattfoley that isn't a good idea, because it wouldn't be even, and cause a difference in the throat like a bubble. Lapping might help but it can't be centralized in that area.

@H.R.6688

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving yeah they will go away relatively quickly. That's why If I encounter that, I'll put 50-100 rounds down the barrel before I start load development.

@tacticalmattfoley

Жыл бұрын

@@H.R.6688 OK. I was thinking the way a gunsmith polishes a bore might work, but we don't want no bubbles.

Tom how is the shooting bench out there? If you'd have any input on what would make it better for you let me know.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Art, that bench is working great! Fine job you did there and I can't wait to try the other one.

the vertical stringing in your groups indicate to me, that it could be your shooting technique or front rest?

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Daniel, I've wondered about that myself along with a half dozen other things. For now I'm just going to push on and see if any of it repeats and then go from there.

2 questions. Are you loading from cartridge base to ogive or OAL? Are you sure your powder charges are super accurate? Both of these issue can cause vertical drifting.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Base to ogive, and yes my charges are spot on. Which measurement method wouldn't really affect much because once I set the seating die all of the rounds would be the same length. But variations in the powder charge sure could have an effect. But I checked every single charge and all were accurate to within .1 grains.

@apriliaguy4life198

Жыл бұрын

Sounds good. The reason I asked about seating method is because some folks chase OAL with each cartridge and that will affect pressures and cause vertical strings due to the base to ogive possibly being longer/shorter on each round.

Barrel still tight

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Still tight and even tighter with the Hornady's. I had to push on that bullet to get it to the lands.

I wonder if some of your vertical is from the shape of the stock? I know I have a hard time shooting stocks that have a sharp angle down to the toe, very well off of the bench. That plus inconsistent cheek pressure maybe?

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Andy I've wondered that myself along with a half dozen other possibilities. And just to go a little deeper into that. I moved the front rest back and closer to the receiver so the forarm wouldn't flex as much and possibly cause problems. That could be causing some balance issue and I've also noticed more felt recoil with this stock because of the shape and more felt recoil never helps accuracy. It isn't bad at all just more than I expected.

@andyschuler3459

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Yessir, could be part of the equation. I really enjoy your videos. My wife and I watch them Sunday night after church :). I look forward to seeing how the project progresses!

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

@@andyschuler3459 Andy, it's funny you say that Because I put them out on Sunday at 12:30 so that people will have something to watch after church. I guess it worked! Thanks for sharing that.

Do you think the torque on the action screws could a factor

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

John, this one doesn't really have action screws. It has 2 small (8-32 type slotted screws that hold the forend on and it attached to a metal bar under the barel. And the rear stock attaches like a shotgun. And I did check those small screws but it's tough to get much torque on them, but they don't need a whole lot of torque because of the way its all put together.

Reloader 14 works well with 130 seirra game king

Reloader various

If you took your best group load that has vertical dispersion, wouldn’t you want to adjust bullet seating depth next. Maybe some bullets are hitting the rifle’s land non concentric with each shot. It is strange that you have vertical dispersion when your velocities are so close. I would only guess longer distances will amplify this vert error even more. Maybe your bullet sometimes enters with more tilt than other times because the lands don’t start all at same point? Just a thought, I really don’t know. Best of luck, God bless. 😎👍

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Mike, I'm scratching my head on this one also. If concentricity was an issue then it seems like the bullet would be all over place so just random variation, But this doesn't feel very random.

@repairfreak

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Yes, very strange indeed. It seems like their should be some logical thought system that can be applied to explain the vertical dispersion with one weight bullet over another. My final thoughts would be it is a bullet weight issue. If the lower weight disperse left and right and the 140’s only up and down. This is certainly a strange but interesting situation. Best of luck figuring it out my friend. God Bless!

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

@@repairfreak Mike if you look at the 3 shot group with the 130's right after that .325" group it opened up vertically also. My guess is the forarm but that is just a guess right now?

@repairfreak

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Don’t you just love playing detective Tom? I do this troubleshooting electronics. I’m sure you will come to an understanding of what’s happening sooner or later. Interesting stuff my friend. God bless 😎👍

Forend Bedding!!!! Single shots with two piece stocks are incredibly finicky with bedding. My advice, find a gunsmith or stock maker that understands two piece stock bedding systems. There are never any guarantees with these types of stocks, but at least you'll have a chance with someone who knows what they're doing. Failing that, if you still want old school wood, buy a new Remington 700 BDL in 6.5 Creedmoor. If you pillar and glass it you'll have a system that has stood the test of time and should perform. 👍

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Audie, what Winchester did with this one is they used 2 point bedding but only where it fits to the hanger. And then they free floated the barrel. Someone else has already told me their 1885 need more clearance though because of the hanger flexing. I started resting the rifle further towards the receiver so it would be more stable and that seemed to have made a difference. But I suspect that's behind what's going on here and I'm going to have to open up this channel more as well?

@audieladd2476

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Great, I can't wait to see the results and hope it really works out for you. Very interesting videos.

Do you check bullet weight? Load your test group with equal weights for that charge. I know its 130 and 140 but do you check the actual weight?

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Brandon, I didn't sort my bullets by weight. That does make a difference but it's one of those things that only makes a small difference. Now when you take all of those things that make a small difference and add them up that's when you get the sort of groups that benchrest shooters get. But being we're still in the preliminary development and just looking for a good bullet and powder combination I'm not too worried about those small improvements. And a good example of why I say that is we haven't even gotten to fireformed brass yet. That will make a much bigger difference than sorting bullets, brass, primers, and so on. At this point we could run a test and use bullets that all weight the exact same thing and then use the widest variations we could find in bullet weight and I don't even think we would notice a change in accuracy in because we have so many other major variables going on. Now once we get this rifle dialed in on a powder and bullet combo, the right charge, fireformed brass, and are consistently shooting small groups then we would start seeing improvements from the minor things like sorting bullets and length testing.

@BuckIt00

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving copy that. I was just putting it out there. Kind of speaking out loud . Ive never done a hand load before wasn't sure if that has anything to do with your vertical strings. Or like you said if it even matters at this point especially at just 100 yards. The only reason it came to mind is ive been watching halfmile sniper build a hand load working on ladder test. It was something he had mentioned. Looking forward to the next video. Awesome find on the spear head..

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

@@BuckIt00 And everything you just said is why I explained it like I did. The guys shooting extreme long distances and super small groups say to do all of that other stuff, and it does matter, but they always leave out the preliminary load development part and most of them are shooting custom barrels and rarely run into the issues we can with factory rifles. It's sort of like seating depth. They all say it matters and that it's important and I agree that it does matter but it makes such a small difference that most of us would never even see any change in accuracy from seating depth tests. The rifle has to already be shooting really tight groups us to even be able see a change in accuracy but they always leave that part out.

@BuckIt00

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving thank you. I appreciate the info. Ill put that in the pocket for later.

Tom, for what it's worth I'll give ya my 2 cents....if you can shoot 3 shot .325" groups or better, who gives a darn what it does with 5 shots. Proves nothing except your barrel is getting hot. Also, what magnification is that scope? You should be minimum 14x with a fine reticle. Never use a scope that the cross hair covers the target dot. You're just guessing where you're aiming at that point. Just my opinion of course and mean no disrespect to all the hard work you put in.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

East Texan it wasn't about shooting 5 shot groups so much as the difference in velocity on those three shots. I have a feeling that group is going to really open up at distance because of that? But we'll find out soon enough. And if you noticed the three shot group right after that .325" group went to that vertical variation and I have no idea why? As for the scope, I have a second focal plane so my crosshairs are staying small no matter what magnification I have it set at. But I did find it was better to back off on the magnification for the center diamond because at 20 power the diamond was so big that I was having a hard time picking a spot in the center. On the outside diamonds I get a really good sight picture even at max because those center diamonds are smaller.

@easttexan2933

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving Well magnification is definitely not the problem lol. That's all I got, I'm done lol.

Maybe an OCW test could sort things out.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Joseph, are talking about shooting shots at different powder charges and then finding the flat spot in the velocity curve?

@josephr2766

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving kzread.info/dash/bejne/oYiLpreTaKTdmco.html

Be interested to see where this goes, I would have taken off the forearm just to check three shots, its not stringing but what you mentioned about barrel harmonics could be affected by the forearm, which is why they make those rubber donuts to slide up and down the barrel

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

I'm thinking this is going to be interesting also?

Shooter

GO OVER BARREL HARMONICS

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Joe, I'm planning on getting into that when we start shooting further out just because it's so easy to see all of that in real time at long distance. When you fire 2 shots at 500 yards and they have different velocities but the same point of impact then you know you nailed it on getting the harmonics rights for that load. But it takes a rifle that doesn't have something else going to know that's what you are seeing and I'm wondering about this one especially with the higher pressure charges.

Eld is 140 though

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Gary, these are 130. When I ordered them I wanted a 130 grain target bullet to try and this was the only 130gr target bullet I could find. But they do make them in 140 also.

@garyk76

Жыл бұрын

@@TomRiverSimpleLiving thas crazy all I could find is 140 and 147 for a 6.5

Just wait till you start getting wildly inaccurate numbers with the Caldwell. I sent mine back got another one from them and that one wasn’t any better.

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Johnny, so far I've been using this one for probably 6 years? Knock on wood, no issues yet but I wouldn't be surprised if it started showing out at any time. But I would say that about any electronic device that's been going for over 6 years.

No faster than a creedmoor shoots them bullets id Hunt with them our swat team snipers use them bullets a deer isn't big bonesd or thick skinned

@TomRiverSimpleLiving

Жыл бұрын

Gary, I agree completely. Those velocities would make for a good hunting round with a soft bullet and wouldn't mess up much meat! But if I were trying to stretch it out there for longer shots I would want more velocity for hunting and after I finish this project up for target shooting I'm going to develop a hunting load for this rifle and talk about just that.