Great production values! And yeah, changing the volume on the 6581 in particular creates a pop sound. It's how digital samples were typically played, by rapidly changing the volume. The volume of the pop was greatly reduced in the 8580 SID, and that caused digital samples to have a much lower volume on newer C64s.

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your positive feedback. I always remember a small pop, but the loud pop at volume=0 seems more noticeable now. And thanks for the history lesson; I didn't know that they tried reducing the pop on the 8580.

@cbmeeks

5 жыл бұрын

The removal of the pop in the 8580 started the Great SID Holy Wars of the 80's.....that war is still on-going. :-)

The second you mentioned the pop I'm like it's supposed to do that and it's the volume settings changing. It's also a good thing because you get "GHOSTBUSTERS!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!" and "Another visitor stay awhile staaaaaaay FOREVER!!!"

@MindFlareRetro

4 жыл бұрын

Haha, yes, you're on the money there. I am aware of the SID "pop" but it just seemed much more pronounced to me after the mods and I wasn't sure if I had introduced more "pop" after moving those caps to the underside of the board. Thanks for commenting.

Love those crystal clear closeup shots of the board and chips, very nice!

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Thank you, sir. Imagine if I had a quadcopter. ;)

My understanding is that the pop is a ”feature” of the SID. Some demo coders even use it as a “fourth voice.”

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for commenting. Yes, you are correct. I always remember a pop -- it just seems more pronounced now, especially when set to zero. Ah, interesting -- I did not know this -- I would like to find some examples of the "fourth voice" in some demos.

@BedfordLevelExperiment

6 жыл бұрын

This is pretty much any game or demo that has samples (aka "digis") playing at the same time as the music. Maybe the most famous example is the title track for "Skate Or Die" - that big distorted guitar is a digi, and the 3 true SID voices are busy doing the other parts.

@repetto74

4 жыл бұрын

@@BedfordLevelExperiment The intro part on Arkanoid is also coming from the sample 4th voice.

@gunderd

4 жыл бұрын

@@MindFlareRetro the reason that setting the volume to zero created the biggest "pop" was because it was the largest transition - you were going from volume 15 right to volume zero (15 steps) in one go.. all of the other transitions were only a single volume level at a time.

@MindFlareRetro

4 жыл бұрын

@@gunderd Hmm, I never looked at it that way. I was always aware of the pop sound. It just seemed a lot more noticeable after I installed the ZIF sockets. I have never looked at it, as you say, transitions occurring one volume level at a time -- interesting. Thanks very much for commenting. :)

Thanks for commenting. I actually tried inserting the ZIF sockets I have into machined and traditional DIP sockets, but the legs are too short and thin to insert and stay put. Also, I had to keep the height as low profile as possible in order to allow the C64 top case to be re-attached without anything hindering it below. I am pleased to report that everything is still working perfectly since performing the ZIF modifications. Thanks again for your feedback - much appreciated.

I have never seen someone actually solder in a ZIF socket. Normally you put the hugely expensive ZIF socket into a regular precision socket (the ones with round holes, like on 486 sockets). If you ever need to remove the ZIF socket, itself is not destroyed in the process. you can simply pull it out. Also surrounding components have some air and you don't need to file down the ZIF socket itself.

@kwinzman

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the advice!

this Zoomed Video is just awesome!

may the zero force be with you

Ok I get the title now. haha. :D Great idea putting ZIFs. Regarding tape and staying on course. YEp, been there, delsodered the wrong row. It happens. Nice video. I like the compositions and production quality.

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

LOL. Good. I wasn't sure if people would get the title. Yes, the tape helps -- it gets mesmerizing under there 😵. Thanks, I think have the fun for me is trying to come up with fun shots to attempt.

the popping sound is a bug in the sid chip that has to do with the asymmetric design of the waveforms. as you probably know, the sid does not have a +/- analog voltage for creating positive and negative voltages for the waveforms. it uses the 0 volt as a base and waveforms a built from that. so they are not optimally symmetrically designed. so when applying the volume the output of the waveform is multiplicated and added. the middle of the waveform is a positive number that multiples with the volume and results in a different output number depending on the volume number. if you had a symmetric design inside the sid with negative and positive numbers and 0 when the waveform is in the middle then changing the volume would not change the output value. that is the problem and that is also one part of the ugly distortion of the sid that some people 'love'. i am thinking about re-implementing a sid with an fpga and adding new features and sadly i would have to make it compatible with that old flaws because of some sid nazis that want it to sound exactly the same but also because of some bugs that has been used as a feature. in fact using that bug as a feature it is possible to make a kind of 10-bit dac which is pretty awesome. of course when doing a re-implementation there probably would be some settings to alter to make it compatible to different versions and a new setting that kick out all the flaws and add sampling in a different way (beside more channels, stereo-pan registers, wavetable, reverb, etc.) btw. good job with the zif-sockets. i guess this is something that i also have to do. especially when starting to make SID/VIC-II/CPU replacements

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the thorough comments. I love it when I can learn from the expertise of others. I am sure you have heard of the SWINSID and FGPASID projects. Would your FPGA SID design be a different take on it?

@maschinenraum

5 жыл бұрын

@@MindFlareRetro yes, i know of this projects. maybe i have a closer look at the fgpasid project. i have two different fpga boards at home (max 1000 with an intel/altera fpga and memory on it). it is highly integrated. the memory could serve for a good reverb algorithm. it should be stereo with an additional pan or left/right volume register for each voice - so you can position every voice more left or right or in the middle and let the voice have a different volume. the second thing would be the fixing of the asymmetric design of the waveforms. that way it would sound better with less distortion. and the next thing would be sampling - similar like in the amiga. that is very simple to implement. especially with the memory it could also be used for storing the samples and being used without using power from the 6510 cpu. so it is more of an easy fix of the bugs of the old SID and with the new capabilities if the fpga/memory setup some useful additional feature in a way like the designers from commodore/atari would have done it. let's see where i get with these ideas. i have the devboards lying around and in the next week guess i will play around with VHDL and the tools that are available for that.

Excellent video Mark, keep up the good work 😍 👍

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much, G!

Jam in all new 104 ceramics.

As for the popping, perhaps it is because that little cap might be a tantalum electro, and perhaps these are polarised and you got it in backwards. Tantalum caps are usually blue, but who knows?

Great video. I was actually planning on doing this to my Atari 130XE, picked up some good tips from you before I do it.

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much. Yes, this has come in super handy for testing chips from other boards. One caveat, I did use el-cheapo ZIFs from China and I do find that I have to re-seat ICs in the ZIF sockets if they they haven't been touched after a while -- the connections seem to get a bit flaky and re-seating the ICs solves the problem. Just keep that in mind. Oh! I just realized I subbed to your channel earlier today. @bwack77 mentioned your channel on Twitter. I'll be catching up with your videos this week.👍 On you on Twitter, as well?

If you replace the single wipe sockets with the machine pin collet type, you will have less insertion forces and the sickets are more reliable.

@MindFlareRetro

4 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Stan. You are absolutely correct. In my case, I pull and replace the ICs in my test machine (the ZIF socket one) so often, I fear that I would permanently damage the legs at some point.

I loved this video. It's funny how you managed to deal with the unfitting sockets. Greetings from Brazil!

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Olá Luan! Greeting back from Canada. I am happy you enjoyed this video. Hopefully, you have subbed.

@luansm

5 жыл бұрын

MindFlareRetro Yup, I have subbed! Keep up with the awesome work!

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much for your kind words. I will do my best to make my videos as informative and entertaining as I can. Cheers!

When I did my ZIF sockets I removed all .1uf disc caps and replaced them with modern low profile caps. The two caps that were interfering with my ZIF sockets I replaced with SMD caps on the underside of the board

@MindFlareRetro

3 жыл бұрын

Great idea. I might re-visit this project again and make new enhancements like this. Thanks for sharing.

I have been looking at those zif sockets, but as of yet have not purchased any. I am leaning at getting them soon. So much easier on the ic pins. Thanks. Another great video.

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the positive feedback. I would recommend opting for most costly name brand ZIF sockets if you can. I am finding that the connections get iffy after a while an I have to reseat a chip or two every so often. This is my experience so far.

Mirroring some of the comments already posted, great video and very high production values. This ZIF test machine is a really great idea. Look out for me copying you in the near future.

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Nice, it took me almost 11 hours to realize you left a comment - bad me. Thank you for the kind words. Copy away! In hindsight, I think the best approach is to relocate all in-the-way caps to the underbelly. Much easier unless you are feeling the urge to sculpt.

@game_whisperer1606

6 жыл бұрын

MindFlareRetro I was wondering about your existing sockets and an alternative approach of placing the ZIF in a socket. Probably not a good idea due to the ZIF pin movement when opening-closing.

Im no expert, but you effectively increased distance from caps to chip pins by adding zif sockets, you also added inductance by lengthening each pin's length. Both of these may of contributed to the pop.

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

You make an expert point. The pop was always there -- as is the nature of these SID chip revisions -- but the 'pop' does seem to be accentuated now. The purpose if this C64 is to test the primary ICs from other C64 computers, so I will have to live with the poppier pop. Thanks for your input!

I have 25 of those plastic Dollarama cases. They are great for organizing small electronic components. I also recognized that retro 1970's Radio Shack IC puller. Great video!

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Marcel. Thanks for commenting. Haha, yes, those Dollarama parts bins are the best. May I ask where in Canada you are located? I watched your KZread subs counter video the other day. I have a WiMos D1 Mini and a MAX7219 display similar to yours. I'm going to follow your steps and hopefully get a counter going. Oh, and thank you very much for the sub and the channel donation. Both are very much appreciated.

@MarcelDiane

5 жыл бұрын

MindFlareRetro , check your PayPal, I think my address is attached to my donation. But to answer your question I’m down the 401 in Cornwall

@MarcelDiane

5 жыл бұрын

P.S. Check the follow up video for what could go wrong.

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

@@MarcelDiane Yes, sir, I see your location, and thanks again.

This is a great idea. I would like to do this myself to a 64 or a 128. Maybe also the RAM chips. I could use this at our bi-monthly Commodore meeting in the Netherlands.

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for commenting, Richard. It does make it a lot easier to swap chips off of and onto the board. I would definitely recommend moving caps to the underside -- a lot easier and cleaner than precision filing.

That’s nuts!

I didn't have the balls for it, but I just bought a c64c with ziff sockets. although I like the breathbin 6581 sound more that I also have several. thanks for your little Basic program will test it on my 6581

@MindFlareRetro

2 жыл бұрын

Oh, yeah - a ready-made ZIF 66 - cool. My litttle program is very basic (wait, what... basic BASIC 😉). You might also want to check out "Commodore 64 SID Tester" which is an excellent SID tester, hackjunk.com/2017/11/07/commodore-64-sid-tester/.

@eddielegs344

2 жыл бұрын

@@MindFlareRetro Thx Bro

Great video! Very good content!! TY!! That is a SWEET looking test harness!! Never seen one as nice as that before! Did you build it yourself?

@MindFlareRetro

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks. I bought that test harness ages ago from an eBay seller, AAA Scrap Dogs Unlimited, ebay.us/PIPHwv. It has worked well for me - no issues - but I don't see that they sell it anymore. That said, Sven Petersen's test harness design is the way to go nowadays.

Very cool =D I would have relocated all the offending caps underneath btw! But nice clean job creating gaps for the caps in the sockets!!!! =D With regards to that popping noise, does it stop if you put it into a board without a ZIF socket? It could be a capacitance issue with the socket I guess. A bit like bread board adds a few pF between the pads etc. The width of the socket holes and the length they extend down through the plastic could be a factor. It's also possible that it's just a glitch with that particular SID? EDIT: Ignore all of what I said about the popping there - see Bedford Level Experiments comment below! I had no idea that was a technique used for samples lol.

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for commenting GadgetUK. What you stated makes sense. The pop (especially when set to zero) is definitely more pronounced now. Hah, yes, the light bulb turned on (moving the caps to the underside) after I completed the first three sockets. Any future ZIF socket retrofits will involve a lot less carving. =)

@GadgetUK164

6 жыл бұрын

Yeah, don't get me wrong - not being critical, i think the filling down is a marvelous idea there on the sockets! Means fewer changes to the board =D

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

No problem at all. I appreciate the input. I had read a blog on Breadbox64, I think it was, where someone installed ZIFs using the filing-down method. I think I would have gone with relocating all the caps on this particular C64 (my bench one) if I had thought of it sooner, but I had tunnel vision with that blog post in mind when I started this.

What a fantastic video! Really well shot and explained! How is there enough clearance on the bottom of the board for those caps to sit upright?

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks very much. I wasn't very clear there. I actually positioned them flat -- well, bent them over ever so gently. The back shield is very flexible, so not a problem there, and there is a fair bit clearance between the shield and the bottom of the case, as the mainboard rests on standoffs. So, everyone is happy under there.

@UnexpectedMaker

6 жыл бұрын

Phew! Glad you're not squishing those little cappies... wouldn't want them to go pop!

It sure would be nice if they made those a tad smaller; those were clearly not meant for internal use!

Highly deligintly Great job Sir, I liked it... V creative.... Im sending u a sluate from Bahrain....

@MindFlareRetro

4 жыл бұрын

Hello back from Canada. Thank you very much for commenting. I am very happy that you enjoyed the video and I appreciate the positive feedback.

@naderhumood1199

4 жыл бұрын

Sir.. What is your desoldering gun brand please?

@MindFlareRetro

4 жыл бұрын

@@naderhumood1199 I use a genuine Hakko FR-301 Desoldering Gun. I purchased mine direct from Japan on eBay -- ebay.to/2IoLe2S.

Great video! You did all the things I thought you would have to do. Did you ever find out what was causing the pop sound?

@MindFlareRetro

2 жыл бұрын

Thanks. Glad you liked the video. The pop sound was actually "normal" for that SID revision.I only found it odd because it seemed more noticeable to me after the ZIF mods.

A huge thanks to Steve Sexton for pointing out that I kept referring to the two capacitors, that were relocated to the underside of the motherboard, as resistors. Ugh. Not acceptable, so I pulled the video, made corrections and re-uploaded. My apologies if you had already left comments or likes/dislikes. At the time of pulling the original video there were 15 views, 2 likes, 1 dislike. *Original comments were as follows:* Steven Sexton COMMENT Not to be an a**hole but you kept calling caps resistors. ▼ MindFlareRetro REPLY OMG. You're totally correct. What a massive brain fart on my part. You're not an a-hole; am just daft for not noticing. This is what happens when you do voiceover at 2 AM. I'm actually going to pull the video and correct this. Thanks again! Siana Gearz COMMENT Sounds like aux in noise/offset induced volume click. You sure it wasn't normal on your specific machine? Was even used for digi sounds back then. ▼ MindFlareRetro REPLY Yes, you make a very good point. I think the pop was actually there before but I am hearing it now for the first time. I had changed my speakers recently, so I wonder if it is just more noticeable to me now. Todd's Nerd Cave COMMENT Great video! Clever idea to move the components around the SID chip to the bottom of the board. That’s exactly what I would have done too. As far as the SID popping goes, have you tried another SID in it? Or was it working fine before the ZIF socket installs? ▼ MindFlareRetro REPLY Thank you. I have tried one other SID and it pops, as well. It's not as noticeable as in the video -- I have the mix right next to the speakers and the speaker volume cranked. I didn't notice it before, but I've made a few changes lately -- new speakers for one (hmmm) -- so it might have been there all along but I just didn't hear it.

I just use high quality sockets and stack them, no direct solder of the zif socket necessary.

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks for the feedback! Hmm, yes, a few people have suggested that -- smart. I always seem to be taking the difficult approach.

@harryguillermo

3 жыл бұрын

Where do you buy it? I am interested in using those. Thanks

i hear the SID popping all the time on various original chips

@MindFlareRetro

3 жыл бұрын

Yeah. You're right. It's just that didn't remember it being that noticeable before the mods. Thanks for commenting.

@ChronicKPOP

3 жыл бұрын

@@MindFlareRetro I'm going to pay more attention to it from now on... by turning up the volume when doing a 586220 on various sids. My guess is that it's some type of degradation of the sid internals. maybe caps?

As you will use this board to test chips, I would replace those MOS 7708,7711,7712 as this will fail for sure, I am even surprised that they still works :)

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, you are absolutely correct. In fact, I am repairing another C64 now with all kinds of bad logic. I suspect I will slowly mod more and more of this board with ZIFs as time goes on. Thanks for commenting!

Did you add solder for the 2 caps on both sides of the board ? It doesn't show on the video and might be linked to your volume problem

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for your comment. No, I didn't but I do recall flowing a lot of solder through the holes. However, I see your point and I will check it out and add solder to the underside as well. Thanks very much for your sugegstion.

My next project :-) I have received my ZIF sockets just two hours ago. I will install them on my "most crappy motherboard" (ASSY. 250469), which I have bought from ebay for little money. It turned out to be an easy repair, so I have screwed it to a board together with a keyboard and an acryllic cover (sheet). The ZIF sockets are intended to have the same purpose like yours :-)

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Thanks for commenting. It is great to hear you are going to be doing the same mod. Some other things I've learned: (i) try to relocate as many of the small caps as possible to the bottom of the board, like I did with the last one, to avoid having to file down to many of the ZIF sockets; (ii) I have found that the cheap ZIF sockets from China have a connection issue over time (the C64 will behave strangely) -- re-seating the chips in the ZIF sockets usually fixes the problem. Good luck!

Very interesting, thank you!

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

And thank _you_ for watching and commenting! :)

@augustineconnor1784

3 жыл бұрын

A tip: watch series on flixzone. Me and my gf have been using it for watching all kinds of movies these days.

@luciangrayson2517

3 жыл бұрын

@Augustine Connor yea, I have been watching on Flixzone for years myself :D

I have the same desoldering gun and once had a leg come off and jam in the nozzle, no amount of poking would get it out (the nozzle was a little too tight on the pin but it was the only one I had at the time). I ended up using a very tiny drill bit in a pin vise to clear the blockage and its good again, but have some bigger nozzles now also. Great little gadget that is. I have the same soldering station also. What flux pen are you using? out of curiousity.. I have an overpriced mg chemicals one.

@VeronaComputers

5 жыл бұрын

Forgot to say, I have been enjoying your videos :) Thanks for doing them. Been doing the computer thing for 20 years but just began learning about electronics proper in the last year or two.

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Yeah, those jammed nozzles are a super pain in the butt. I ended up getting a slightly larger 1.5mm nozzle, as well.That solder pen is just a cheap Chinese Kester #951 knockoff I purchased from eBay at some point, bit.ly/2I2fS2A. I have to admit, I do like many of the MG Chemicals products. Right now I am using their 63/37 no-clean solder and I like it a lot.

you can make risers to solve all the dimension problems, but it won't fit in the case.

Is it possible to put the chip in with the lever down, and the lift it up into it's "relaxed" position for normal use, I have a ZIF socket that springs back up constantly, and found that this also is able to lock the chip into the socket but I haven't tried powered up the board yet. What are your thoughts on this? Also, is it possible to remote mount A SID chip, say, onto the outside of the case for testing purposes or does the length of the wire effect the operation of the chip???

@MindFlareRetro

4 жыл бұрын

Interesting. All the ZIF sockets I have ever seen only clamp/lock in the handle-down position. There are some higher-end styles I've seen on DigiKey another from other suppliers that utilize a different locking mechanism. For example, this low-profile style ZIF from Aries Electronics, www.arieselec.com/products/data/10018-low-profile-zif-test-socket.htm. I am not sure how far off the mobo you could successfully operate a SID, as there might be voltage and timing issues introduced through lengths of wire vs the direct traces on the board. It's worth an experiment using a couple of 28-pin DIP sockets and some thin gauge wire. Keep in mind that the SID is very sensitive to static and would be fried instantly by any static discharge. I hope this helps. Thanks for commenting.

@JesusisJesus

4 жыл бұрын

The ZIFs I have are the aqua coloured 3M brand ones. I just tried it with some breadboard jumper wire and when using one or two, they do not hold very firmly and pull out quite easily, however they test perfectly fine electrically. When you have an entire chip in the socket installed this way, they seem to hold quite firmly in place. Maybe EVERYONE has been doing it wrong all this time?!?!!?!!? I was curious after watching this video and decided to give it a go. I was wondering things like "what if the ZIF lever flings open like mine does. It's an interesting thought, worth more experimenting. I'd love to get a definitive answer on the SID question though, as I have SID CART 2 which adds another SID and is addressable, and then run a 6581, 8580 and a SWINSID Nano, and i'm on a quest to see how many SIDs I can make one 64 control....

@MindFlareRetro

4 жыл бұрын

Be cautious of those "3M" branded ones. If you bought them from eBay, AliExpress, etc. and paid a few bucks for a package of 5, or something like that, they are *not* genuine 3M so their performance issues (like popping open).

where can i get the diagnostic cartridge\equipment that you used?

@MindFlareRetro

2 жыл бұрын

Hi Bill. I mostly build my own diagnostic and related repair items. And although there are a lot of sellers on eBay, personally, I would highly recommend retrorewind.ca. Ask for Frank - a great guy who makes very high-quality Commodore diagnostic and other accessories.

on the first zip socket install, you could have turned it around most likely and it would have fit.

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Brett. Thanks for commenting. I recall considering the orientation of each ZIF socket before committing to filing and soldering and in several cases the locking arm, when in the down (locked) position, would hit any other ZIF sockets in close proximity. However, I did not consider shortening the locking arm by snipping it or even bending it. Thanks for the feedback; it is greatly appreciated.

Maybe just leave the SID normal DIP socketed - I must have clean working SID. But for testing purposes, I get it, good work.

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Thanks John. Yes, for testing purposes so I'm not too concerned. GadgetUK makes an interesting point in his comment, where the ZIF socket might be adding a small amount of capacitance affecting the prominence of the pop sound-as he says, "A bit like bread board adds a few pF between the pads."

Hey MindFlareRetro guy, I'm new here, but I'm just gonna go ahead and just coin you as the "This Old Tony" for retro hardware. I'm sorry I cannot throw anything decent into the cause or reason of the pop, but to me it sounds like a "DC offset" on initialisation. Or (this is hard for me to describe), say the wave form is above or below 0, there's a distinct change from where the waveform was to when 0 started. This is to say there's no "zero crossing". You would have to determine if it's an analogue or digital issue. Maybe go from 0 to 1 repeatedly to see if you get the same velocity of the click, if you do there's a digi problem. If it's not as apparent then go looking down the analogue side of things. This is me just talking rubbish, but it's what I would be looking at. Edit, it seems your subscribers have you covered, gg guys :)

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Hey Neffers. Not rubbish, at all. Thanks so much for your insight - I appreciate your comments and the lesson. Cheers! LOL! I've got nothing on This Old Tony, but thanks for the compliment. And dude! I just subbed to your channel -- love the music!!!

What would happen if you piggybacked multiple black sockets to raise the height and then a zif socket on top of that? Thus to raise the zif socket out of the way of other components? Do you need to desolder the original socket?

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Oh. Someone has their thinking cap on. ;) That's a very interesting idea. The original socket could stay in place. The only challenge might be inserting the ZIF into the topmost socket, as the pins on the bottom of the ZIF are pretty short and really thin and flimsy. Thanks for the great idea. I might give it a go.

@lukasperuzovic1429

5 жыл бұрын

MindFlareRetro , I think i seen someone did just that on a old NES console they re-purpose into a Test Rig

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Oh, yeah? I'd like to see that NES test rig. This was my intention, too, as I use this board all the time for testing chips.

@borealis75

5 жыл бұрын

Doesn't work, at least not with the standard sockets and ZIFs that I have. The legs in the ZIFs are wider, and they are oriented in an angle that doesn't go into a standard socket. I have tried inserting a ZIF to a normal socket, and also to a round pin header socket, and I haven't been able to do that.

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, the ZIF legs are flat at kind of flimsy (picture: is.gd/k8H5io). I've tried ZIF-->ZIF and ZIF-->StdSocket, but they do not connect well at all.

I tried to do the same thing for the RAM, but the sockets are too big for all 8 chips, so I settled for standard sockets for four and ZIF for the remaining four.

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Hi Ted. Thanks for your comment. Funny, I just received some ZIFs for just that purpose. I haven't tested the fit yet, but from what you are saying I'll have to do the same thing and settle on using only 4 instead of all 8. That said, I don't mind, as my intension would be for testing RAM ICs quickly. Thanks again for your input - much appreciated.

@theoisle

5 жыл бұрын

I put the ZIF sockets in U9, U11, U21 and U23. U9 and U11 have the levers pointed toward the back of the computer and U21 and U23 were pointed toward the front of the computer. The only problem was the lever for U9 would hit CIA1, so I had to cut off the lever just below the knob on it for the lever to lock in place.

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Ah, yes. Regarding the levers, I've seen other people either trim them shorter or even bend them to a more vertical position. Good to know. Thanks again!

Hm, no way i can insert these cheap ZIF sockets to the C64C's IC holes... although there is no any solder residue in them (using a vacuum desoldering station), the ZIF's legs are just to big/wide. Any idea? I'm thinking of file the ZIF legs to make them smaller, but this can expose the legs to faster corrosion maybe... don't know what to do.

@MindFlareRetro

Жыл бұрын

Hmm. I haven't tride this on a C64C. I know the cheap ZIF sockets have flimsy super-cheapo legs. Yeah, my first thought would be to file them down a bit. Let me know how you make out with this.

@plinker439

Жыл бұрын

@@MindFlareRetro Meanwhile i watched a video where the author just twisted all the legs of the ZIF by 90 degrees so it could be inserted into a normal socket (not the precision/machined ones) then this socket can be soldered into the board. I think i will follow that way. (: It would be hard to file all the legs evenly, also can damage them easily.

4:28 desoldering gun says "cheep cheep!" :v

Did the relocated ceramic cap fail?

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

No... well not to my knowledge. Hmm... maybe I'll replace it anyway. Thanks.

@GianmarioScotti

5 жыл бұрын

@@MindFlareRetro in the unlikely case you still read these comments: Moran's hypothesis was also mine. Let me/us know if replacing the relocated caps (especially the one that's worse for wear) help with the click/pop.

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

I do my best to read all comments left by viewers -- they took the time to write comments, so I try to read and respond to as many as I can. Fore sure, I will keep everyone posted if replacing the caps makes a difference.

Your load pop happens from a full-on state to 0, but does it sound the same if you went backwards, -1 step in the FOR loop? I suspect if volume was 1 and you set 0, you'll get a similar pop as from 1 to 2. How to stop it, I'm not so sure, you could look at the pop on an oscilloscope and make a drain filter for it. Also, you really only need one DRAM socket ZIF'd so you can test one at a time... Testing all 8 at once, you won't know which is bad. But you should probably ZIF the glue chips too, and the video SRAM.

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Ah, interesting. I will try the BASIC PRG with a -1 step in the FOR loop. One RAM IC at a time - ha - I did not think of that. I do have the ZIF sockets but I haven't opted to install them yet. I'd like to install ZIFs for as many ICs as possible but it gets crowded quickly. Thanks for all your recent comments. I really appreciate the feedback.

@officermeowmeowfuzzyface4408

5 жыл бұрын

Thinking about it further, could be a problem with the Q8 circuit.

How can one detect when the lever of the zif socket is closed?

@MindFlareRetro

Жыл бұрын

You can feel increasing spring tension resistance as you lower the lever. There is a small but feelable "dull snap" (for lack of a better description) just before the lever is parallel with the surface of the socket. This is most apparent with higher quality name-brand ZIF sockets.

Can't you sand them?

@MindFlareRetro

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, I suppose they could be sanded -- I didn't try that. The file was very precise and made rather quick work of the job. I have some smaller ZIF sockets to install for the RAM. I will try sanding those. Thanks for commenting and for the great suggestion.

You gotta have at least 10 points for "zero insertion farce". :)

Very bad quality motherboard.. :-(

@MindFlareRetro

6 жыл бұрын

Yes, it is not the best C64 motherboard, that is for sure. It was in really poor condition when I first acquired it. I was going to strip it for parts but decided to refurbish it as much as I could -- and that was my very first video -- please watch the video if you have not done so already, bit.ly/MFR-YT-01. Thank you for watching and for commenting.