I appreciate the way that this video discussion is framed in that these aren’t bad games; they’re just not good games for you. Too often I see reviewers bashing a game as being poorly designed when it’s just not designed to their tastes. For example, you clearly like interaction in your games, while I’m much happier with a multiplayer solitaire euros :) Every person has their own preferences for what makes a game good. I really like Wingspan but have no interest in TI4. And that’s ok! Live and let game!

I would like it to be known that straight up all these games are at or near the top of my list except for Wingspan -Daniel

@SAUPAYANMAZUMDAR

9 ай бұрын

yeah time you stopped playing with noobs.

@user-nd1mz4hp6w

9 ай бұрын

I figured you may have a few words after Gloomy/Frost/and JotL got dissed. What the hell do you and Ashton play together that you both like! Haha...

@Kool212

9 ай бұрын

I always knew you were my favorite.

@osamamemon3608

9 ай бұрын

Well, at least someone on the channel has good taste

@otakuofmine

9 ай бұрын

yeah, if one watched all the related videos, it figures. I can only say so far - I finished JotL and had a blast. (We play Oathsworn till we get GH 2nd)

Man that clip at 15:00 is everything I love about games. That looks like the perfect game night to me 😂😂 Probably why i love Im the boss and Chinatown.

I think my approach to this list need to be more like: top 10 recommendations. Spirit Island, Root, Jaws of the lion, Eclipse, Sidereal Confluence... all of these so enjoyable for me, I might as well try the rest

@javenue

5 ай бұрын

I wasn't excited about Wingspan at first, but there is something about this game which makes me play it again and again. Also, Wyrmspan would be interesting to try I guess.

How dare you share your opinion online. You can't do that! No kidding aside this was a interesting list. Thanks for sharing.

For me, the top of my list is Diplomacy. It's tough to play with friends due to the trust issues and backstabby gameplay. It's also tough to play with strangers because nobody is invested enough to see it play out. The half dozen times I've played, it was always a series of complicated turns and feel-bad moments that led to unfinished games.

@john-qz3fu

9 ай бұрын

This is a great example of an objectively good game that many will only play once.

@maxmustermann-zx9yq

8 ай бұрын

Yeah I have a reliable 3 player group where 2 will almost always favor teaming up if that's an option, so no cold war slash table talk based games

@azoniarnl3362

7 ай бұрын

Seems like you and your friends need to grow a pair instead these "trust issues", its a game..

@BCWasbrough

7 ай бұрын

You've clearly never played Diplomacy. I have, over many years with a variety of both friends and strangers. Give the game a try yourself and see what happens. @@azoniarnl3362

@terreausore2435

5 ай бұрын

​@@azoniarnl3362imagine the need to go tell people online to "grow a pair" while being a grown adult watching board game reviews.

Playing it wrong. Made one crucial mistake. You're not supposed to _enjoy_ it.

What a great video idea. We need more varied content like this in the board game industry. I'd also like to see more designer talk about mechanics if we can figure out how to do that in an interesting way.

@RaveKev

8 ай бұрын

"But, But, But... If you bash so many games in 15 minutes, the publishers won't love you anymore - and how do you get free copies and mentions anymore?" (think that's what many content creators think)

@xXN0cturnXx

7 ай бұрын

there is def. too much praising in bg industry or lets say not enough objective opinions on good and bad things about bgs. often i read posts on how good this new game is and 1 month later no one is talking about. glad there are a few people speaking their mind.

@T3R3NC36

4 ай бұрын

@@RaveKev It takes a lot of time and effort to create content about board games, so most content creators don't bother creating content about games they don't like. They barely have time to make videos about the games they like, they probably use the rest of their time to live a little. You can fault them for that, now can you!?

I agree with basically all of this, except with a caveat/suggestion for Spirit Island. I think the thing that makes Spirit Island sing for me is when you start increasing the difficulty. You go from a simple whack-a-mole style to having to actually combo spirit powers, gather and push colonists into safe/bad zones, and really actually have pay offs for the ridiculous things your spirits can do but don't really ever *have* to do in the base difficulty. You don't even need to go to a crazy high difficulty level, just a couple bumps up from the base and the whole game changes. In the base game, I would find that we often win quickly and kind of "Oh, if we just kill this city here we win" style. Or, I'd be able to do 20 damage to an area that only had ~8-9 health worth of colonists there. But as you ramp the difficulty, you start needing to plan better, communicate with your team your capabilities, and overall, it just gets to be an amazing co-op experience that rewards you for skillful play and learning your spirit better over time.

You literally read my mind, in short for me these 3 things have to be spot on to enjoy the game : 1. A great board game has to run fluently with little player downtime, keeping everyone engaged instead of having players fall asleep till their turn comes again! 2. The Rules have to be straightforward and keep the same logic throughout the entire game, not be confusing and keep changing the logic! 3. Scoring combats, outcomes, and following flow charts need to be straightforward not tedious and complex as if I am doing a complex math test, nothing worse than when at the end of the game I feel exhausted and get a migraine from all that tediousness!I am there with you with all of them, particularly Roots , Gloomheaven, Eclipse, and GOT!

The Spirit Island one burns the most for me. With that low an opinion, nothing would likely change it but my guess is that you'd probably like it more with Events and Adversaries. They make the board state changes a lot more interesting.

@Pit1993x

9 ай бұрын

Totally. Base Spirit Island is almost not worth playing to me (the game was designed with the tokens and events in mind after all).

@perselmokki

9 ай бұрын

Precisely! The base game was fun at start, but it overstayed its welcome reasonably fast. Getting Branch and Claw elevated it to be one of my all-time favourites simply because of the events messing up the predictability enough. Jagged Earth also adds the events so that's a valid, bigger, alternative.

@Oneiroclast

5 ай бұрын

Yeah, honestly the rulebook does the game a disservice by framing adversaries as an advanced option. Adversaries should be explained as the default with a suggestion that if the game is too difficult, you may choose to play without an adversary while learning the basics.

There's a dynamic I've experienced in every hobby I've seen: - You dip your toes and get hooked - You feed the addiction a bit more, it's a high - You overcompensate your appreciation of the hobby making it a huge part of your identity - This is not sustainable and you dial it back a little bit - You actually find a stable enjoyment to commitment ratio and struggle to go back to your previous ways I first noticed it with craft beer where I brewed my own beer and eventually stopped entirely fiending for the most gaudy & exclusive craft brews I could buy. I'm now seeing it again with board games where the 1-2 hour game is infinitely more appealing than the 4 hour fever dream. I struggle to even believe me & my homies gathered to play TI3 5 weeks in a row once. I feel like almost all the games on the list fit in that bucket, wngspan being the big exception. And man, a solid 3rd of that list is in my collection atm so I feel ya. Right now I've been buying a lot of new stuff which makes revisiting games pretty rare for me. But when you bring back out a Rising Sun or FCM, you feel some different type of way about them just on the time & complexity & table space creep alone.

@HeyImBode

9 ай бұрын

Funnily enough, I tend to like games that turn into hot mess (Experience driven over tactical considerations, chaotic, etc). Sidereal confluence as a result exists in a really weird spot where I could probably enjoy that game, a lot. But I also fear that it's "too much" and would experience it once or twice and then just never consider it again when picking a game for the day.

@ChitsandCardboard

9 ай бұрын

I know you're serious but where did you find buds to meet with you every week for 5 weeks to play TI. We need us some friends like those.

@HeyImBode

9 ай бұрын

@@ChitsandCardboard nowadays the same playgroup is a once every 8 months situation at most lol

@ChitsandCardboard

9 ай бұрын

@@HeyImBode I suppose the hype does die down. Also I imagine that was a while ago and eventually life takes over. I think every board gamer dreams of having a group that'll spend 10 hours a week playing anything in their collection though. It's so interesting, the mind of a boardgamer.

Spirit Island?! Unsubscribe!... wait, full review coming?... alright, resubscribe.

@fsmoura

9 ай бұрын

I'm holding the resubscribe until the review comes out! He's not fooling me again! ( oДo)

@Phaeton667

9 ай бұрын

Facts lol. Spirit Island is my fave board game

@jfducusin7186

9 ай бұрын

​@@NRGYi respect your opinion even if it's wrong :3 i have not seen any game even remotely close from SI as the best game. i can say I dont mind owning only it, and losing every single other bgame in the world.

@phk975

9 ай бұрын

@callmewisdom exactly my response

@InnerMedium

9 ай бұрын

Ya i saw spirit island and almost closed the video. Though i basically only play the table top simulator version now.

SidCon is absolutely amazing 10/10 and I understand everyone who doesn't want to play it.

Interesting to hear you say that you’d probably rather just play D&D than play the rpg-esque Oath. That’s a very helpful comment, and highlights a neglected area for board game reviewers: what board game adjacent activities do y’all also do (rpgs, poker, other card games, phone apps, certain video games) that might influence your personal enjoyment of specific board games. Sometimes it feels like board game reviewers steer clear of acknowledging interests outside of just board games, when of course anyone will have varied interests that would deepen the understanding of their audience

@Shelfside

9 ай бұрын

Great comment! Was a great read -Ashton

We need more of this! There are too many reviews that give games the benefit of the doubt, and downplay annoying play experiences. People want to be positive about things! I've been wanting to get Wingspan, but have been worried about the exact things you speak of - so you saved me $60. TY. I too tried Root online, and it was a bust for me. I thought maybe because it was a just solo experience, but I also thought maybe I just suck - so many gametubers love it!. In the end, I think I didn't jive with the mechanics of the game.

I love Sidereal Confluence! My friends always wish there were 1 or 2 more rounds to buy some of the more expensive techs. Totally agree on the chaos on the table and how exhausting it can be tho.

Good video. Not liking a game is fine if you explain what is good and bad. You do a good job of this and in fact a much better job of it then some people. I like a lot (in fact mostly) of games that others can not stand. So I'm right there with you. Looking forward to a Last Light review from you and Daniel.

@Shelfside

9 ай бұрын

Is this you, Roy, in secret? Either way I do need to introduce Daniel to last light :D -Ashton

@johnkfriday

7 ай бұрын

"Not liking a game is fine if you explain..." No it isn't, nobody owes you an explanation for why they do or don't like something. Most games are just shit.

For Sidereal - my first game was 4+ hours. I introduced the official variant of using a 10 minute timer for each trading phase. The game now only takes 2 hours. I highly recommend the timer if the time is the main issue. It also does not feel that restrictive at all to do so. Also looks like you had way too many people in your game from that video. Also none of my friends shout in the game so I imagine that is really dependent on group dynamics haha. There will be people who slide into someone's negotiations and steals a deal but that is more fun to me haha. I always play 5 or 6 players and that has been perfect for me (I think 5 is the sweet spot because you are not having too much information from other people but the trading is still dynamic and rich and I also assume that is another reason for less shouting haha)

@Shelfside

9 ай бұрын

Yeah it's a bit odd, it's like at lower player counts there's not enough trading so Daniel wants more people, but at higher player counts there's too many people and it's overwhelming. I just don't think its for me :) -Ashton

I was just about to say that the Sidereal Confluence gameplay footage reminded me of the frenetic mayhem you see on the stock exchange floor, and then you took the words right outta my mouth, lol. I keep telling myself I'm going to try Wingspan to see what the fuss is about, but every time I pick up the box or see it on sale on Steam I realize the bird theme does nothing for me, and then I pass on it.

Great video! I totally get when you're coming from. It's refreshing to hear a dissenting opinion of some of the popular games!

What?! You'll never play (insert viewer's favorite here) again? I don't know why I even watch this channel. I love (insert viewer's favorite here)! You don't understand the mechanics at all, YOU' MUST BE PLAYING IT WRONG!!! Most of these I've never played except for Eclipse and Wingspan. Eclipse, I will agree to disagree with you on. Wingspan on the other hand, after playing Earth recently, I think it might be time to tear down the bird blind. Great video! Look forward to your next one. Keep up the good work.

Great video and I of course, respect your opinions. It is hard for me to imagine Spirit Island on this list though. I understand that everything is not for everyone but I have put like 100+ hours into that game and can't wait to do more lol.

My favorite board game right now, if you can even call it that since is far more card focused, is the Red Dragon Inn. Seriously I'm kind of addicted to the simple mayhem of the game. The theme is so strong, games doesn't end super quickly but don't drag on forever either, and the core game play is both somehow incredibly easy to understand even on a first playthrough but also complex enough to reward careful planning.

I love Argent and have largely the same complaints about it- my opinion though is that these issues are far more pronounced at larger player counts. With six people, who ends up on a good spot is wholly random, whereas at 3 it's very controllable. I would never play with more than 4 again, and honestly I only really lean towards it if we have exactly 3.

Ha this video is amazing. I love your varied opinions on lots of those hugely popular games.

For sidereal confluence, At 5 players our games normally take under 2 hours. It’s pretty much my favorite game and we have a group that’s played pretty much weekly for a year and a half. I do recognize that it’s not a game for everyone, but it seems to me that something was explained incorrectly somewhere as my experience playing this game never turn into just shouting deals. It is a game that has very little downtime and requires a lot of quick thinking, so I can certainly understand wanting to have more non game based interaction with your friends.

Absolutely LOVE Eclipse. It's an amazing game that gets even better when you start playing with the non-human factions. It may feel battle heavy but we've had a player win while never initiating combat. Spirit Island I'm totally on the same boat with you. Me and my wife have played it three times, gotten totally stomped each time, and don't really plan on playing it again. Root I've only played once but loved it and am looking forward to more games of it!

@mugthemagpie3001

5 ай бұрын

Eclipse is also pretty fast from what we saw to our surprise. Suggested 25 mins per player might be a bit too far fetched BUT three player game lasted 1 hour 30 mins. There is also something else I noticed quite recently while playing Terraforming Mars: realization you don't even know when these 3 hours passed.

Interesting list. I just recently played wingspan and my initial evaluation was very similar. I always felt like I'd prefer to play Oceans indtead, which has a ton more interactivity but has a similar feel. About Spirit Island (my favorite game), it seems you've played without tokens and without events? As far as I'm concerned, the game totally needs those to open up and live. It's oozing with theme from every mechanic and rule I encounter, which keeps me coming back to it and just immersing myself in the island. I could instantly start a new round after finishing a game. Just a suggestion, because I felt like the game was missing something before adding Branch & Claw and only after that did the island really come to life for me. ^^

@Shelfside

6 ай бұрын

You're correct on SI, I played without tokens and without events! I think our friend group just didn't want to play with those mechanics for us, and from how it was described by Daniel (who by the way loves SI and loves these additions), I don't think it would change my enjoyment much. Cheers and happy new years! -Ashton

@MJ-in2xt

Ай бұрын

@@Shelfside You basically only played the first tutorial and then reviewed the game... The tutorial intentionally feels basic and whack-a-moley so it can teach the core mechanics before introducing complexity.

Sidereal is prob our groups favorite heavyish game for 6 players. It's such a hard player count to do right, and I think the game nails it. It does REQUIRE all players to be into the trading aspect though. Above 6 and it prob gets a bit *to* chaotic, and hard for people to keep track of stuff though. Also I think it's funny that what I think is the BEST aspect of Eclipse(the ship building) is your least favorite.

Only going to comment on games I've actually played. Lords of Waterdeep - Yawn. Wingspan - SUPER boring and way over hyped. Root is just so complicated for how basic it is, if that makes any sense? FCM - Only con is that it really takes up too much space, and finding people to play it. Also feel like if everyone has some plays it makes the game much better. Spirit Island is a gem , you shut your mouth :D Great video, I prefer more "negative" videos cause it gives me a more realistic review. If I can see past why some people might not like a game I can more easily tell if its a game is for me.

I'd love to see your take on what game plays better or worse in digital format.

Great video that shows that you need to figure out your preferred mechanics and not just go "Hey it's number xyz on BGG therefore I must like it". Case in point for me is actually TI4. That would be my number 1 on this list :)

I feel you on Gloom Haven. The card play is WAAAY to heavy even just to do simple things like move and grab loot.

@Verbos1979

8 ай бұрын

I love everything about Gloomhaven except the setup/tear down. That’s the reason I don’t play it anymore

@redridingcape

6 ай бұрын

​@@Verbos1979 Maybe you would like Gloomhaven online? The steam version is great to remove all that setup. I really love the gameplay of -Haven games.

The expansion of Lords of Waterdeep is SO good that I can never play without it. I love it, and I can't get enough of it

@joeferreti9442

2 ай бұрын

The expansion is crazy and good. But I actually like just the basegame very much.

OMG, I audibly said "WHAT!!" after hearing #1. I JUST received Sidereal Confuence and have planned a day to play it and I'm EXCITED! The idea is to stick a time limit on each trading phase to keep things going. I also don't agree with FCM but that's becasue I enjoy the zero RNG, no holds barred style. I get that it's not for everyone though. The rest I can't really say much on, I just enjoy Gloomhaven for what it is. Awesome video!

@Shelfside

9 ай бұрын

Hahaha, thought people would be very mixed on Sidereal. It's a really good game, but just definitely not for me. Even with the time limit for trading it's not working for me -Ashton

9 ай бұрын

I played Siderial twice with 2 different groups. With a time limit (i think 15 minutes per trade - whatever is in rules). It was great both times. Everyone loved it. Second play was on a group week-long get-togeher and they wanted to play it one more time right after the first game. Its the kind of game, where i will most likely remember every game i play for a long time. Similar to my games of Cosmic encounter and (original reprint of) Dune and War of the ring. I love when game is goofy, social, roleplay-ish and still an actual game. I win most games i play, im super competetive and its super hard for me to enjoy game for the game and experience. Thats why im always happy to find a game that is just pure fun and chaos :) Btw make sure to read all siderial conf. player boards for all races in addition to rules and how to learn the game sheet. It makes the experience for everyone else much smoother.

Unintuitive is a very good description for Rising Sun. And it's definitely not an area of control game. Buuuut when you grasp what you're supposed to do, I find elegant it's simplicity and how you can plan things ahead easily.

Im sure I could also make a top ten list like this if I look on bgg. Everyone's got games that they just don't enjoy, despite everyone else in the game group loving it. One that comes to mind for me is Castles of Burgundy. That game just feels like I'm not doing what I want to do, but just what the dice decide I should do. You can only get so many workers, and you only get to be first for so long during a game, so a lot of castles is not rolling the numbers you wanted, and then having to do something else that you didnt want to do instead.

Thank you for that list. because i can understand each pick of the games i also played, you get a new subscriber!

@Shelfside

8 ай бұрын

Awesome! Welcome! -Ashton

This was a great inspiration for my newest video. Thanks for the great video, and the great Idea. My list is going to be way more different from yours, so this is interesting.

Love that you have Cuba Libre on the table, as a fellow COIN gamer :) And yes, COIN games are so good. Lots of negotiation, cutthroattiness, assymetry and the historical themes it portrays are on point. After War of the Ring, these coin games in regards to area control/wargame type of games are my favorite. Started with All Bridges Burning, Pendragon, will play Cuba Libre soon, and have Red Dust Rebellion on P500

@freeheeler00

7 ай бұрын

I bought All Bridges Burning because of the theme but had never played a COIN game before and still haven't, thus it sits on the shelf unplayed. How does one best learn a COIN game?

@sevencoloredmage8726

7 ай бұрын

@@freeheeler00 Have you tried to play along the sample play in the play book? Usually that is where you encounter a lot of rules that are unclear and you can look them up in peace. The more difficult part with asymetric games like COIN is teaching the other players to a level that they can leverage their faction in the game (without boring them before the game even begins).

I agree to most of what you said about the mentioned games. "Gloomhaven"/"Frosthaven" and "Wingspan" are ridiculously overrated anyways. "Root" and in parts "Oath" are broken. "Rising Sun" feels also dysfunctional and very unenjoyable. "Sidereal Confluence" is crazy. "Argent Consortium" desperately needs streamlining. "Food Chain Magnate" is unique but utterly unenjoyable for most players. "Spirit Island" is an amazing design, but I just don't like to play it most of the time. Even with variations from the nation boards, the invaders do more or less the same every game. The one where I don't agree with you is "Lords of Waterdeep".

This video inspired me to get all these games 👍

@Shelfside

9 ай бұрын

:)

If I play one game, it will be Spirit Island.

You did indeed get me for a second Ashton. Cheeky Devil. Audibly gasped when I saw Twilight Imperium PoK.

@Shelfside

9 ай бұрын

hehehhe -Ashton

What I love about your channel, is that your 10 games you never want to play again are the games I want to buy and play.

@Shelfside

21 күн бұрын

haha, let me know how they go :) -ashton

As there is just one game I ocassionally play and usually like (Eclipse) I love this list. Bringing up subjective negatives can be informative for people deciding what to buy. Good job.

Need more episodes of such content. I have the same feeling about a bunch of games, but Wingspan excluded.

Really enjoyed the video, and agree with much of what you said. Have just subscribed and would love to see a video of the 10 games you would most like to play again. 😊

@Shelfside

8 ай бұрын

Cheers, I'll have to work on one! -Ashton

I love Spirit island and Root, and Eclipse is my favorite board game of all time. It's cool that despite having such wildly different tastes I still respect your opinions. I guess you're just chill with it, goated with the sauce or whatever.

I agree, I didn't played most of these games but for example Root, I just can't, this game has such a steeping curve for me and my friends, the friends who have it they understand it and they make a play in 20 seconds then others turn comes around and they feel completely lost with what they can do, who is winning now and etc.

Looking forward for that JoCo review!

@SaniFakhouri

9 ай бұрын

Same. Love this game. It's an excellent negotiation experience wrapped around a serious board game about a serious topic.

Interesting! this trend of popular board games that you never want to play again is very fascinating to me!!

I'm amazed at how much I agree with your list. I officially want to game with you haha

@Shelfside

9 ай бұрын

well well well, hello my friend -Ashton

Describing Spirit Island as "whack-a-mole" is straight up wrong. Like, it's understandable if the game didn't resonate with you, but that isn't why. The enemy AI has multiple tiered incentives, you can weather short term losses to mitigate long term damage. Like... it's whack-a-mole, if you were told where the moles would pop up a minute in advance, had a wealth of tools to manipulate the behavior of the moles beforehand, and were also not even obliged to whack the moles. You failed to perceive the strategy space of the game on even a fundamental level.

Great video. Appreciate your honesty. I agree with several of your choices but also respect your opinion on others I haven't tried.

@Shelfside

8 ай бұрын

Cheers! Maybe I'll update this list in a year or so :) -Ashton

I've played the Waterdeep expansion, Game of Thrones, Gloomhaven, Food Chain, Spirit Island and Root and I agree with all but the latter because it doesn't fall under too long / too simple (and you can swap out the Vagabond)

I completely understand why people find Sidereal too exhausting. It the most interactive and most unique game I have ever played. And that's why it has a spot in my top 10 games of all time.

Sidereal?! Have a timer on trade rounds and if you don’t like loud don’t play with more than 5. Boom fixed. Shortens the game and lowers the intensity to a consumable level. Love that game.

Sidereal Confluence isn't a game, it's an experience.

What a lively Siderean Confluence Round. :-D What I really like about Siderean Confluence, that it gets my gaming group talking. Usually we minmax our multiplayer solitaire rather silently. OPn the other hand SI can be very exhaustive, especially with trade intese factions, especially from the expansion. Btw. very nice video, not much hate.

Some of my fondest memories playing board games are playing Rising Sun with my homies :D I played it with other groups but never could replicate the feeling. IMO it is a deep, deep game that just clicks after several sessions with the same group. I remember in our first playthroughs we were SO BAD at bidding, and after several games we would bid nothing and just rely on poker face. Another breakthrough happened when we finally realised we could freely give resources to other players during the round. Then we began charging/bribing for alliances, or simply giving money/ronin for free for someone to be able to punish a player that double-crossed us during the round. The game slowly opened up for us and became very very cuthroaty (even more than the likes of Blood Rage) and with several paths to victory. But also is a game wich I only recommend for tables that are into heavy negotiation games, because it only really shines through heavy negotiation and interaction. The bidding part is just the cream of the crop for me. It is a shame that both of the expansions just make the game worse. For me with the right group it is a 10/10

100% agreed on all, except root. Problem with root is that the vagabond should have been an expansion. If they put moles or corvid in the base game box instead, the games would have way more appeal to a broader audience.

@HazardWolfCorp

9 ай бұрын

This is what i was thinking, and honestly the game opens up far more once the expansions are tossed in.

@Shelfside

9 ай бұрын

ooh, yeah vagabond being an expansion would be awesome -Ashton

@mugthemagpie3001

5 ай бұрын

Ironically that's when Vagabond has a massive expansion rolling just around them. Also the problem with Root is that you can't play some of the expansion factions in 1 vs 1 as they have too small "balance pool" (lizards and aforementioned corvids) which you could ignore BUT they just don't work in two player games. Unless you put an automaton into the game but then it feels like a bother to simulate the third player too.

Thanks for this video!!!

Great video! My thoughts on each: 10) Haven't played it. Just sounds painful. 9) Completely agree, but never knew exactly how to vocalize it. The hand management just doesn't engage me. 8) Haven't played it. Always seemed to fiddley. Might check out the online though. 7) I love the idea of this game, and I own it. Too bad I can't get the same group to play it multiple times with me. 6) I used to love this game. Played it recently and just found it to be a chore. 5) Love this game. Play it digitally everyday. I own a physically copy, but can never get it to the table. Too hard to teach. 4) Never played, but find myself agreeing with you. Way too much going on. 3) Hated Blood Rage so much that I haven't even looked at the other games. 2) Completely agree. Too long for how little interaction there is. Engine isn't satisfying. 1) Lol, I love this game. Problem is, most my friends agree with you so I hardly get to play it. Definitely not for everyone

Damn. It hurts to see Argent here but I understand your points. I agree with the rest as well. Looking forward for the Spirit Island review!

I totally agree with you. All these games are hyped, but this doesn't mean that they work. Specially, when the amount of material blends you from the fact of playing a boring game. You have mentioned games in your list that I don't even would buy cause I already had a bad feeling when I watched the reviews and playthroughs. So, please, more critics. Finally, I got some confirmation. Thanks :)

Please recomend game like Lord of waterdeep where players can add more worker placement spaces during game?

I think all gamer's should create a list like this, and use it to edit their collections so they can better focus their time on titles they truly find enjoyable. Regarding Oath, I admire what Cole created (and in large part his efforts succeeded) but had to navigate a not insignificant amount of frustration as I felt the rules and various player roles took me along for an unguided ride rather than leave my sense of agency intact. I instinctively know there is an excellent game there if only I can commit the time to deciphering all the subtleties of the design- which is really hard to do when there are so many other games that have a much lower entry barrier to a great experience. I am really, really hoping I don't have the same feelings about the upcoming sci-fi pseudo epic Arcs...

Thanks for the vid! I'm not yet brave enough to admit that some of these games should leave my collection

Thanks for the content. I find that with my wife and kids Wingspan is still very enjoyable as we do it quite casually. I can see with a more serious game group how that is not the experience one is after. When playing with a bit more serious group of gamers I found Terraforming Mars to be a good game that I did not really want to play again.

I am 100% with you on your choices. I think as board gamers our interests and tastes evolve the more games with play. I too am completely burned out on the trend of worker placement, multiplayer solitary. tableau building, etc. Thankfully there are tons of genres to explore. Wargaming and Miniatures games have revived the hobby for me personally. Miniature gaming has also spawned another hobby for me. Miniature painting. Thanks for video, keep up the hard work.

Lol, while Root Digital is a great way to knock out plays for experienced players, I think it might be the worst possible way to try and learn the game. The quickness works against it, and leaves new players such as Shelfside feeling completely clueless as to how anyone is doing anything and how they should act with their own faction to counter. It doesn't help that the "faction boards" for Root Digital leave off a rule or two, so you might not even know a thing exists in the game. We also might be diametrically opposed as 2 of my top 3 are on this list 🤷. Also, I completely respect your right to like or dislike things as you see fit.

Argent is one of my favorite games. I would keep the player count low though as, like you said, a lot goes on and the board is massive with more players.

I have the exact same feeling about Eclipse. The game has such a mental load that I can’t spare enough for the ship designer

Oh man, I was completely agreeing with everything you said until you finished with my boi Sidereal Confluence! My suggestion: your suggestion. Play with a timer. True it isn't a chess timer, but it will make the game 2 hours max.

Great list!

@Shelfside

8 ай бұрын

thanks! -Ashton

Wingspan is great as the game that is almost universally known. No teaching, no rules checks, almost no set-up time and a quick painless clean up...there are situations where it can be the perfect thing to bring to the table. When you want a thoughtful immersive gaming session, not so much. Spirit Island is tough because so much of it is clever and interesting but then it bogs down with the brain numbing tedium of the battle resolution. I absolutely love playing it for about 30 minutes and then I've had enough.

@hugocruz2439

9 ай бұрын

Wingspan though is really boring for gamers that like interaction. That applies obviously to all multiplayer solitaire (your castles, terraforming, etc). On the other hand i love very high levels of interactions like negotiation games, but it's an unpopular genre and it is hard to table those games. Different strokes for different folks.

@freeheeler00

7 ай бұрын

I have found Wingspan to be great for my kid, as she doesn't really like too much interaction and just wants to focus on building up her own thing.

Agree agreee agreeeee. New subscriber because of this. Thanks for slamming these over praised games.

What is your replacement for spirit island?

thank you for your honesty!

What sort of co-op games do you like? Whack-a-mole (or fire-fighting) is pretty prevalent game mechanic for that, so I’m curious what you’ve found?

Siderial Confluence was awesome the one time that i got to play it :)

My problem with any 4x game (Eclipse, TI4, Star Trek Ascendancy) is that if you get hosed early while exploring, it is very difficult to catch up.

This was a wild ride, especially considering how specific the prompt is: Hard agree: Game of Thrones, Gloomhaven, Oath, Root, Wingspan Soft agree (would play them once more): Argent, Rising Sun How dare you, this is one of my favourites: Food Chain Magnate, Spirit Island Uh oh, I was really looking forward to playing this: Sidereal Confluence Maybe a cap of 5 players on Sidereal would help? Fingers crossed... great video!

I really love Oath! Gloomhaven too, but we play that on PC for the physical copy I have takes to long to setup and play. When do you guys do a review of Europa Universalis the price of power? our gaming group can not get enough of that game!

All good! It’s okay to not like the popular. It also helps new gamers sift through what they should spend time on!

I feel you on both Sprit Island and Root! Great games according to most and they look fantastic but I just don't enjoy playing either.

Starting off STRONG with 3 games in my collection. 😅 But yeah, a couple of those game have collected dust because of either lengthy game time, or because more recent games that do similar things in a more effective way.

I’m confused, this video showed up as one of the first results when I searched the term “Brass Birmingham tips”, but that game isn’t mentioned in this video.

Only played Gloomhaven out of these and about it not feeling like a dungeon crawler is spot on for me as well. We gave up after 40 hours. We both like card games but this just sat at an awkward point between crunch and dice chucker not satisfying either end. Tbf though that only happened because of the amount of time the game expects you to sink into it. A time that is way to long for its mechanics to sustain themselves imo.

I love all the games that I've played that you mentioned. Root is my favorite of all time. But I do have my share of unpopular opinions. I don't care for Terraforming Mars, Ark Nova, and Space Base.

I'm very interested in Daniel's updated opinion on Oath.

@Shelfside

3 ай бұрын

he still really likes it! Just doesn't get around to playing it with our schedule -Ashton

Eclipse is a great game if you actually play the asymmetric factions and you CAN negotiate, just have to actually do it

TI4 is on my list. Which is weird cause I am big on 4X, Scifi, Diplomacy, etc. All elements are there in Twillight, but somehow every game that I had with it, I had no fun. I prefer Eclipse!

Would have to agree on eclipse, it’s a solid built game but it does feel like it is such a wait until the last turn than attack everything and everyone and drags out so bad due to it and dice rolling. Enjoyed the game but for reasons you listed and some others I just would always prefer to get twilight in instead.

Me and my wife in that weird niche where we want a Euro game minimal interaction and love birds.

Ha... you got me. For a moment I thought your TI4/JC stack was the games. Not an unreasonable list (except for Root of course). I can follow it a long part of the way. However, I'd have to be talked into playing Cuba Libre again ... I'm not a huge fan of core COIN mechanism. I like the L&C series a lot more.

Great video. I actually agreed with so many of these.

Excellent video. I've always wanted Eclipse but what you said confirmed some of my apprehensions about it. Most games in this video I haven't played but have heard are super good and what you said are the basic reasons I haven't bought them so thank you for confirming that for me. I have played Wingspan a few times when it first came out and I wanted to like it but it just never clicked. Felt so random and the cards available never seemed to synergize. I played Lords of Waterdeep twice in about 2014 and haven't played since and can never understand why it's so liked. I have Gloomhaven Jaws of the Lion and are hoping that will be fun and show me whether it would ever be worth it to me to try one of the bigger versions. And of course FCM. I've heard so much good but something about it just makes me not really interested. Excellent video and totally not what I thought it was going to be and it helped me feel good about my choices lol. Thanks!

@hawk992

6 ай бұрын

Maybe the review of SUSD can reignite your interest in Eclipse. It is indeed a great game! kzread.info/dash/bejne/oYNhu9OmnLyfiKg.htmlsi=SYYuLTJfz2LNDx2U