I am so grateful and fascinated by all of the comments from people who have first hand experience working on these airplanes. If you have anything to share about your experience or knowledge behind these aircraft, please continue sharing below. Thank you all for watching!

@brkr78

5 жыл бұрын

While I'm no insider per se I work very close to the Austrian Diamond Aircraft HQ in Wr. Neustadt. Currently it seems that DA is focusing on its newest project, the DART. It's been flying around for quite some time now, and once I had to circle for about half an hour (well, technically I didn't, I just took of towards Neunkirchen again, then returned back) because DA was showing off the plane to potential buyers I guess and they shut down the Airfield for that time (LOAN is privately owned by DA, if there was a NOTAM I haven't got it, but usually I'm pretty thorough with my flight preparations...). The Jet, however, I haven't seen once. There are indeed a lot of Chinese in and around DA, but IF they really want the Jet to be developed again then at least for now it seems like they are not at a stage where they are testing. I also can't remember seeing one, like ever. Maybe my timing is just bad.

@helperturtle

5 жыл бұрын

It will be interestng to retry to build some of this airplanes... with ELECTRIC ENGINES (specially the push-pull Bronco type and the one that has a rear fan, propulsed by two turbines). Since airplanes are made by hand, it wil be interesting to build them in III World Countries, like Costa Rica, Brazil, Argentina...

@bartofilms

5 жыл бұрын

Are there any pressurized piston aircraft still in production? It seems that only turbo-prop singles like TBM and PC12 are still built. Raptor Aircraft will be one, but it may not go into full production for a while yet.

@FloridaFlying

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, the Piper M350 is the only one in production

@maxwellharris507

5 жыл бұрын

@FloridaFlying If you and Carolyn ever find yourselves out on the West Coast, I highly recommend flying into Chino Municipal Airport (CNO) and visiting Planes of Fame Air Museum. Both of you won't regret it.

Thanks for this video: great stuff! The other reason why the FAA doomed the Starship is because the civilian side of the agency, which had zero experience with composites, refused to go across the office aisle and talk to the military side, which had huge experience with composites. The civilian side of the FAA forced the company to educate them on composites. That cost the company an extra billion dollars. No way the plane, as good as it was, could make it up out of that financial hole.

I painted All the Starships 2 to 53! Damn proud of it too! Jeff, Chad, Lester and Potter painted the Lefthand side. I painted all the Righthand sides. There more to it. Pratt Whittney only wanted to make 100 pairs of engines. We only wanted 50. The FAA meddle with Rutans design and made it too heavy.. He walked out. The front canard weighted 400lbs and added 3knots of speed. I can tell ya more if ya want. A very big part of my life. I led prepping for paint and painting them. Thanks sgain for showing them!!!!! Thanks to the Gang, and Charlie!!!!

@FloridaFlying

5 жыл бұрын

Oh wow that is amazing that this video led to someone who worked on the starship! I would love to hear more about it, if you’re willing. The starship is one of my favorite airplanes in the world.

@randyherbrechtsmeier4796

5 жыл бұрын

@@FloridaFlying I got laid off from Cessna in 86. Got hired by Beech. Bragged to my Cessna buds I was going to paint the Starship. I did. They where built in plant 3. Where the faulty valve for Apolli 13 was made. It was dropped 18 inches on to a table. Quality Assurance thought about rejecting but went ahead and Okayed it. Long before I worked there or the Starship was built, but same hangar. I got involved because it was taking to long to prep for paint. They where doing it on 3rd shift in the sheep shed. Dont laugh it got my wife a job. They doing everything by hand. Running way behind they brought them straight to 103 paintshop. Charlie Wade. Forman wanted to know if I could figure away our to speed things up. That night I went and talked to Jack Engels., Cessnas Paintshop foreman and he gave me ideas. In the morning we started prepping the Beechcraft Starship with ideas from Cessna. The same process I used on prepping 208 belly pods. That's long winded. If ya have an email address Ill hook ya up with Gary Cummings. He was the Experimental Flight Inspector and Starship nut. Randy.

@fredbecker607

5 жыл бұрын

I remember when they first started flying them out of Wichita, traffic would stop on us 400 (Kellogg) to watch them. I always loved rutan's designs.

@randyherbrechtsmeier4796

5 жыл бұрын

@@fredbecker607 Yepper I did too. I could always hear them run or fly. Has their very oen sound, like the TT. I still work in B 84 where we did the flight work. We do Pistons on the North end now. Where we had the 4000s at.

@randyherbrechtsmeier4796

5 жыл бұрын

@@fredbecker607 Kenny Patterson flew the 2000a outa here to the Wichita air Museum. Sad day. Then they pulled the engines out never to fly again

Channel is good because you're a genuine aeronautical enthusiast. I hate the channels of people just trying to catch a buck with no interest in the topic, trying to pretend.

@FloridaFlying

4 жыл бұрын

I appreciate that. I really do love Aviation more than anything. Thank you for watching!

Years ago I talked with a Beech test pilot and he said the Starship was the "Best" plane he ever flew. However the FAA didn't understand what Mr. Rutan had designed. By the time the FAA was done with it they had driven the last nail in its coffin! If Beech could have built it like Burt designed it it would still be a major player in the Turbo Prop arena!. Yep if the FAA would have been around at Kitty Hawk they would have destroyed the air industry!

@bjbeardse

2 жыл бұрын

Little known fact about the Starship is it was originally designed with jet engines. But the engine never made it to production.

Pusher-props always looked so awesome to me; The Beechcraft Starship and Piaggi Avanti being my favorites.

A few years ago, I was on a roof in silicon valley, when I heard a strange but obviously turboprop airplane overhead; one of the few Beechcraft Starships still flying at the time. I had been looking at Burt Rutan's airplane designs the previous night, so I had to do a double-take. So cool!

Here’s one. The CBA 123 Vector. I worked on the engines R&D while in college. The engine was designed with modular sections rather than a single unit. It allowed for the removal of a single module for maintenance rather than the entire engine. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embraer/FMA_CBA_123_Vector

I was a Structures Engineer on the Learfan 2100. My wife and I both moved to Reno (Stead) from Southern, California where I had just been laid off from the Space Shuttle Program a year before. The composite fuselage was built by Rohr Corporation in San Diego, Ca. The first flight was on December 32, 1980. I am right now sitting in my office looking at the artist rendition signed by Moya Lear along with the first flight picture I had autographed by Hank Beaird and Dennis Newton. Beautiful Airplane!! The reason for not building it was do to not being able to get the gearbox built by Western Gear certified for an aircraft. That was my understanding anyway... Lots of talented people up there working on that project. Lots of good memories.

The Beech Starship was a beautiful plane!

@stranraerwal

5 жыл бұрын

Neal Hixon: Yes, from all the prop-planes shown here I like the Beech best !

@gordonanderson3111

5 жыл бұрын

This made the news, I think in Aviation Week & Space technology, yet I also heard it elsewhere While the first 2 prototypes were overweight, when the refined production version came out, the gov. and military tested it and found it violated Power to Weight maximums and laws said it would have to be classified as a Military Weapon! So they were desroyed by gov. orders, because what are they going to do sell them tot he Saudis?

@MOTO809

5 жыл бұрын

@@jaxonmattox9267 There's also one near me based at KASE, and I've seen it at KEGE several times. Very cool looking plane!

@DavidParker-cf2km

5 жыл бұрын

@@gordonanderson3111 Hogwash. There is no "power to weight maximum". There are no "laws said it would have to be classified as a Military Weapon!"! " “What killed that airplane was the reliability issue,” says Tom Carr, who flew 30 of the 53 units produced and logged hundreds of hours training customers. “Once it got that reputation, it was hard to sell airplanes.” And Beech sold its own direct competition: the King Air series, airplanes that flew almost as fast, carried as many as two more passengers, and were known for almost bulletproof reliability. At the 1992 NBAA convention, Beech’s then-president, Jack Braley, told reporters that Starship production would end at serial number NC-53 if sales didn’t pick up. “That was the kiss of death right there,” says Carr. Production ended three years later, at serial number NC-53. Read more at www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/beached-starship-5429731/#YHLYxYlJFr1wlXPx.99"

@gordonanderson3111

5 жыл бұрын

@@DavidParker-cf2km Oh dang, now I am going to have to find the citations for this story, which i KNOW is true - and which will be hard to do since the Reference section that HAD all the magazines and indexes is no longer there. Taken over by internet computers. Still - it was announced, by the US gov. - a civilian aircraft can not have a too high a power to weight ratio above a certain point. This shows up in a movie about some wild pilots in Viet Nam "These things (the turbo Cessna he {Mel Gibson} has just landed on a mountain top) are not even legal in the USA!" Also look up stories about how Howard Hughes was forced to sell his aircraft company, because they could no allow a citizen to be flying aircraft that outperformed those of our Air Force. Also look up the book about/by Bill Lear - "They Said It Couldn't Be Done" - (all too true it turns out at the end). See the story of how a FAA man is sent to begin certification test flights, for the new jet that can outperform the Air Force jets of the time. The FAA pilot, on first flight for him, preparing for take off - pulls the throttles back too far causing one engine to quit, lowers the leading edge braking slats used for landing, then begins his take off role. Horrified onlookers, used to seeing the little jet rush down the runway and leap into the air, see it slowly lift off and then crash in a corn field just off the end of the runway! Fortunately it was so well built both men walked away, because a fatal crash of am early test flight, with a Federal man on board, could have killed the project, and the company.

A shame the StarShip failed. I had the pleasure of flying in one and it was fantastic. Might be time to bring the design back.

My dad was the engineer who made the 1st 3 prototypes, which were composite wound as a single piece fuselage. Beech decided that they did not want to pay the sub contractor to continue to build the fuselage. They chose to build the fuselage in 2 pieces, which were then mated together. This increased the empty weight by nearly 800 lbs, killing the advantage of composite construction and increasing fuel consumption.

Very important video! As aerospace designer at Leopard Aerospace (L400 UltraFAVORITE, L30KC UltraMOBILITY, L20TX SHARP projects), I will say that before to think the success, we have to learn from failure!Great job FloridaFlying. Thank!

What could possibly go wrong with a kit built supersonic jet?

@AreeyaKKC

5 жыл бұрын

If built correctly nothing. Just as safe as built in a factory

@ericg8854

5 жыл бұрын

I would fly one! Might just do the world a favor!

@bryanst.martin7134

5 жыл бұрын

Check out the Viper.

@sfertonoc

5 жыл бұрын

Reading up on Nasa research in supersonic, huge yaw control issues and shock wave shape distortions if the build is not perfectly symmetrical and rigid, and we are not talking about center of lift movement requiring ballast movement like with the Concord and creating huge drag and performance issues if not designed properly.... No way can supercruise without inherent unstable controled system....

@bubbaclinton1105

5 жыл бұрын

Especially with a run of the mill general aviation so called pilot.

I remember reading Popular Science articles in the 60's about the BD-5. I even got the little model plane version. Ominously, I never did get the model plane to work.

The Rutan brothers were raised in Dinuba, Calif, a town next to Reedley College where my airplane teacher told us he knew them since they were kids. I have seen only one Starship. A strange noise drew me to look up and I saw it fly over my house. Amazing.

I was surprised you didn’t include the Eclipse 400. I worked as a mechanic and later a quality inspector in Albuquerque from 2012-2016. The 400 prototype had many successful flights, but Eclipse’s financial difficulties led to the program being cancelled. Not enough interest in a single engine 4 seat jet during a recession. When I left the company one of the prototypes sat collecting dust in a corner of the service hangar.

They used to fly a Starship out of the airport near my house (Orlando Executive). In flight, it was one of the prettiest planes I've ever seen.

@FloridaFlying

5 жыл бұрын

That’s in my neck of the woods. I’d like to see one there

@chadirby6216

5 жыл бұрын

@@FloridaFlying It's been a long time since the Starship was here.

@glennroberts7183

5 жыл бұрын

Can't remember who THAT Starship belonged to. Someone big in Orange County. I worked and lived in area...Chickasaw Trail and Curry Ford. Worked as a tech for American Airlines for 31 years at MCO, Later a rep for Boeing on the 787. Embry-Riddle grad, class of 1980.

You did a fantastic job compiling all these clips with sound. I loved that you had the Beech Starship on your video, it's my favorite. I saw the one on display at the Evergreen Aviation Museum in OR. That museum has the Spruce Goose. Well done!

@FloridaFlying

5 жыл бұрын

Thank you, I’m glad you enjoyed it!

What a shame about the Beechcraft Starship 2000. That's a beautiful piece of work. Thanks FloridaFlying

My late father was on the experimental team at Lear Fan that developed that plane. As a kid he would take me to the Reno Air Races 1980-83(we lived in Stead, NV at the time-dreary place). In fact I still have an unpainted beige colored resin-cast model of it. Good vid!

Burt Rutan, Herb Iversen, and I wrote the Feasibility Study for the Starship and I hand delivered it with Burts Design Study to Beech in Wichita many years ago. AS DESIGNED the Starship met Beech performance requirements and was economically feasible for market conditions. Because it was a novel design the final production adaptation (done by Beech engineers, not Burt) resulted in a much heavier aircraft than initially envisioned. Again: AS DESIGNED it was a screamer. It hurt my heart to hear Beech was destroying the fleet years ago.

@FloridaFlying

5 жыл бұрын

Yes, I’ve been seeing that Beechcraft and the certification process ruined the design. I love all of Rutan’s aircraft. That is amazing that you got to work with him. Thank you for sharing your story

@bobkrausen8208

5 жыл бұрын

@@FloridaFlying - like any "first of a kind" there were birthing problems which lead to padding where it probably wasn't needed. I think both Beech and the FAA tried to avoid perceived risk of being "first" by being extremely conservative but that conservatism wasn't baked into the design so maintaining the specs wasn't achieved. Sad really. If the effort were tried again today it might have a whole other outcome. My early career was a lot of fun. I actually worked for Ames Industrial Corp which later became Microturbo N.A.. Microturbo in the US did MRO and some manufacturing of the small turbine line made by the mother company in Toulouse. France. Microturbo and Burt first crossed paths on the BD-5J where Microturbo supplied the tiny turbojet engine. We later built the AD-1 Oblique Wing aircraft for NASA under the direction of Burt. Burt did the aircraft design and we did the vehicle fab and engine integration. Another project, the one which I immersed myself in for a full year, was the Fairchild Next Generation Trainer 62% Scale Model. "62% scale" was chosen to best match with the performance capabilities of the Microturbo TRS-18 engines which would power the vehicle. We would get 62% scale lofting lines from Fairchild and FedEx them to Burt who then designed an all composite aircraft inside those lines. Once the design was done we would fab the parts and assemble the vehicle on Long Island. Fairchild submitted their Next Generation Trainer proposal with not only wind tunnel data but actual manned flight data from the 62% scale model we built and flew. Fairchild WON that competition (T46A) but funding for the program dried up. Good times. I still think those days were the highlight of my career!

@hugostiglitz6914

5 жыл бұрын

Would it not still have suffered from corrosion problems. Also we were constantly having vibration problems and prop hub corrosion ad well as or the problems.

@bryanst.martin7134

5 жыл бұрын

@@FloridaFlying Even better? He won the Sarri X prize! :-) First NGO to space.

@sfertonoc

5 жыл бұрын

Seems like with UAVs, nowadays, the FAA would be easier on non passenger certifications. Also modern manufacturing methods could make the Rutan design feasible for direct custom concept to factory tooling compatibility, with tooling adapting instead of design adapting to tooling.

We had the T tail fad in the early 80's, that did not last too long. Piper jumped on that band wagon with a couple of its models and the Tomahawk which had a short life. But not as short as the Beechcraft Skipper. On the other hand the Piper Seminole with its T tail and counter rotating propellers survived that era and began a very nice multi engine trainer. I have not thought about the lear fan in a long time. The Ted Smith Aerostar found a home with Piper for a short time. A lot of nice airplanes have come and gone. Good video.

@FloridaFlying

5 жыл бұрын

That is very interesting about the T-tail fad. Also the Piper T-tail lance and king Air F90. Maybe in the future I’ll make a video talking about all these T tails and aviation fads. Thank you for sharing

@gordonjones4729

5 жыл бұрын

@@FloridaFlying Don't forget about the Piper T-tail Arrow

@randyherbrechtsmeier4796

5 жыл бұрын

The T Tail works great, but ya gotta pay Boeing a licensing fee on everyone on every plane made. They own the rights. That's why Cessna and others have played around with different Horz. Stab. Postions

@justusetpecator

5 жыл бұрын

Randy Herbrechtsmeier Very interesting, never knew that, thanks for the heads up.

THE AIR FAN HAS GOT TO BE THE COOLEST LOOKING AIRPLANE I'VE SEEN !

One issue with #1. Sales did not doom the Starship. I flew in the 33rd one created and it was a dream! I was blessed to fly right seat. It was an amazing aircraft! Very nimble among all axis, it had a good range and plenty of power. What killed it? The FAA. They made Beechcraft attach the anti-rotation faring on the bottom and made several other mandatory updates. The then CEO/ President of Beechcraft bought most of them back, called in the FAA and them made them watch as he had them crushed. Some customers were not willing to part with their so all didn't end up there. However, I thought there was one still flying near the Montana area but that was years ago. When I first saw it I fell in love with it! Especially that glass cockpit! The first one I had ever seen! Wow! You should know as I am sure you watched!

I absolutely LOVE the look of the Starship 2000. It's the sexiest propeller plane ever made. Thanks.

The airplane me dad had when I was little (A Cherokee 6) was owned by 3 other guys. One of the other owners flew it down to Mexico and ran out of fuel. He managed to land on the beach without damaging the plane, then managed to hire a bunch of guys to help him drag it onto town, again without causing any damage. But he couldn't take off from the main street in town, so he took the wings off and drove it to the airport. Unfortunately the insurance decided to wright the plane off (which was STILL undamaged) because the cost of hiring an A&P to put the wings back on would have been more than the plane was worth. Some time later some guy purchased the plane and put the wings on himself, but he didn't know what he as doing. On the flight back to Texas the wings fell off and he and his wife were both killed. Guys, bolting the wings on an airplane, if you do it, make sure you do it right.

I was a big proponent of the Lear Fan. I lived in a house on Bill Lear's property. Beautiful.

Moya Lear gave talks at my Westwood Village Rotary. Lear originally was located at Santa Monica Airport. What a lovely, smart lady.

its a shame about the starship but thank god we still have the piaggio p180 they are a joy to fly and if you ask me we really need more pusher aircraft

The starship was awesome. Too bad it dint work out. The Piaggio was just that much ahead of the design. I'd love to have one, and be able to keep it up and flying for future generations.

I remember salivating when the sexy and fast BD-10 was first introduced way back when. Really sad that it was so poorly designed that most of the completed aircraft suffered fatal in-flight structural failures. Would love to see it reborn using today's technology and advanced materials. :)

Interesting video. Love the Starship . Beautiful aircraft. A shame it failed. Also thanks for featuring the Adam 500. As I was watching this I thought "what was that cool looking plane in Miami Vice?". Lo and behold its at No1.

I've seen a Starship recently. I hadn't seen one in at least 30 years. It flew over my home in Allen, TX en route to DFW. I followed it on my ADS-B Rx all the way to final. :)

The BD-10 Jet which was featured on the front of popular mechanics magazine, back in 1988 got me interested in flying again then moved on to get my private pilots license after fantasizing a personal jet to go 1.4 mach.

@geekay2747

5 жыл бұрын

it was a death trap, unfortunately.

@VideoconferencingUSA

5 жыл бұрын

@@geekay2747 I was sorry to hear the three people died in the BD-10. It is funny how we all love flying and yet we want to go faster to get to places faster so we don't have to fly much.

@paulmanson253

5 жыл бұрын

@@VideoconferencingUSA Back in 1986 I met a guy with a functional BD-5. As a kid I dreamed of flying something like that. Fascinating talk with him. Semi retired mechanical engineer,he did what he could to improve the thing,and had money enough to buy as many incomplete kits from others as he could,for spare parts. He said it was a bit of a disappointment as far as overall performance,handling etc,but still a gas to fly on a sunny day. Jim Bede had ideas,but not reliability or business skills. Wonder how may learned to fly seeing those ads in the DIY magazines. Lots I bet.

@MrGaryGG48

5 жыл бұрын

@@paulmanson253 I wrote a final exam paper in a college English class on the BD-5 in 1978. It was a fascinating concept with a very compact cockpit, retractable gear and a 4,000 ft/minute rate of climb. I've only seen them in videos but it certainly was a fascinating concept!

@claate

5 жыл бұрын

My mom flew in the BD-10 - thank goodness nothing happened. She worked for Pompano Air Center in the 80s. She largely piloted Piper Cherokees and said it was pretty thrilling - even as a passenger!

The real problem with the Cessna Skycatcher was the weight limit. Since it was in the light sport category it was limited to 1325 lbs gross. The plane was supposed to weigh 830 lbs, but the one I flew actually weighed 860 lbs. Put me in there at 200 lbs. and my instructor at 160 lbs, and that left us with room for only 16 gallons of fuel..! And absolutely NO cargo. Burning 8-9 gals per hour, you couldn't go very far from the airport. The weird thing was, it was a very roomy airplane with a huge cargo area. You just couldn't put anything in there.

That Adam A500 made me think of the Dornier 335 Pfeil. which also used props at the fore and aft of the fuselage. Interesting design concept in both cases.

My dad used to fly the starship and the adams flys into the airport i work at sometimes... both awesome designs sad to see them go

1 starship still fly’s over Tampa absolutely every time I hear it I know it is it. I once saw it land at Sarasota airport a few years ago. It has the most unique sound. Nice

@BadIdeas101

3 жыл бұрын

They have a unique sound from the exhaust going straight through the props. Loud as hell

I worked at Elliot Beechcraft in Des Moines, Iowa in the 90s and actually got to see a Beechcraft Starship up close. It was even cooler looking in person.

Excellent information!! Thanks for sharing!

I used to work the flight line at a local airport in 1980, I remember hearing my boss talking about the Lear fan and it's first flight. He said for contractural agreements, the plane had to fly that year. Well it was planned to fly in Dec 31st. However, weather was bad. He said if you look, it's first flight was on December 32nd...

One of the last remaining Starships is in Caloundra,Australia, where I got my Commercial Pilot License

@mrtboy

4 жыл бұрын

ch64621 I was there earlier in the year and was really excited to see it, beautiful (but a little weatherbeaten)

@lainzane7548

4 жыл бұрын

One of them is based in the Ukraine. There`s a video-review about it.

I worked for a aircraft manufacturer years ago. We used that starship fuselage for parts and testing. I actually cut the square section out of the right side of the door way to analyze the construction of the door frame . It was ahead of it time for sure.

Man, I never realized how much of a failure the Beech Starship 2000 was. Nice vid 👍

Cessna 162 ZK AAC. Crashed last week ( 20th Feb 2019 ) She was one of the first to be manufactured and a part of the first fleet operated in the world. By Auckland Aero club at Ardmore airfield Auckland, New Zealand. Nose wheel smashed off during heavy landing. No one will miss her. Bring on the insurance money....

When you try to build a Beechcraft King Air replacement and find out just how conservative King Air operators are and how much they love the design.

Thanks for the great video! Loved the kid picture on the Starship.

I attended the NBAA convention and show in Dallas in 1982. The new Starship did a series of flybys for us, but that was as close as we got. Turns out it was a scale developmental aircraft, not yet refined enough for close public inspection. The BE 38P Beechcraft Lightning was another wonderful idea introduced at about the same time. It was to be a six seat single engine turboprop powered by the Garret TPE-331, mated with the fuselage, wing, and empennage of the Baron 58P. It was a truly beautiful design, utilizing off-the-shelf components. A later prototype utilized a PT-6-40 engine. I sold a Lightning to a customer, but had to return his deposit when Beech decided for whatever reason not to produce the aircraft.

BD-10 "Built for safety" 3 of 5 frames suffer catastrophic failure and kill the pilot.

@CeeKayz0rz

5 жыл бұрын

Welcome to the world of marketing! ;)

@bryanst.martin7134

5 жыл бұрын

"Well, It looked good on paper!"

@CeeKayz0rz

5 жыл бұрын

@@bryanst.martin7134 So did communism. :P

@Kimoto504

5 жыл бұрын

@@CeeKayz0rz So does capitalism.

@CeeKayz0rz

5 жыл бұрын

@@Kimoto504 yeah, but the difference is that capitalism works in practice as well. ;)

Really good vid. The last featured aeroplane the Adam looked epic, but I am a minimalist and I think there were alot of unwanted additions to that design.

@MrStryker223

3 жыл бұрын

I was part of building them and the biggest challenge is that they cost too much to make and got certified right when the economy started to collapse. Which redit user said they worked on them? Might just know them, even all these years later the people who worked there are still a tight knit family.

@wickedmuffin76

2 жыл бұрын

@@MrStryker223 I knew a guy that worked there, and I worked near Centennial at the time, saw the prop and the jet fly over several times.

Cool videos. I worked as an "TRUE" Avionics Navigational Systems Tech for 35 yrs. "NOT" a plane old installer and I helped install new systems and test flew as maint co-pilotish and all those dangers. I worked on many and this video is great. I did experience the Beech "Starship" many yrs ago. Only 1 consolation; I made it 65 so I guess I did ok. South East Asia and Experimental a/c couldn't get me

I would have loved a Leopard ..looks cool .. and not too out of the ordinary ..like the Starship.

There was also the Mooney M22. Single engine pressured cabin, but just cost to much to build.

The Piaggio P180 Avanti blew the doors off the starship and it did perform. 400 knots at 40,000 feet...

@alexmoreland7938

5 жыл бұрын

It could go 400kts but not at FL400. FL300-320 is the only altitude it can get to 400kts. Awesome plane no doubt about it.

@rescue270

5 жыл бұрын

The P180 has a very distinctive sound. One flies into San Antonio occasionally.

@XBradTC

4 жыл бұрын

There's one based at KPSP I see all the time. Pretty airplane.

I attended the Reno Air Races back in the mid-80s with a friend who's buddy worked on the Lear Fan. We got a tour of the facility (for what that was worth) and the airplane. His friend was one of the flight test engineers.

I worked in the world of aircraft for about 12 years and then moved on. I worked in a little Bungalow next to Scaled Composites in Mojave California and me and the owner of this little shop did a stretch form canopy for the POND RACER but I never did know what happened to that back in 1989. So I had to Google it just now and see that it was built. I was told that it was supposed to be a dual prop aircraft to break the speed barrier. I guess I'll research some more on the matter to see if they actually accomplished their goal. Great Channel and subscribed🛫🛬🛫🛬🛫🛬🛫🛬

Your right about wanting to see some of these designs incorporated into something better, but I want to see more of those personal jets or even two seater where one in front of the other in the cockpit like on the Tomcats.

Such a well researched documentary and a pleasure to watch. Thank you

I remember the D-Jet maiden flight around 2006 from my home airport and where the Diamond factory is located. It was big news in the media here and as I recall the program fell apart because the government funding Diamond was hoping for was not granted. I do hope that they get it going again as Diamond build some very nice aircraft.

Thanks! Very interesting video. In 1983 I visited Burt and Dick Rutan at their office together with Brandt Goldsworthy and my father. Brandt had made an automated manufacturing process for the fuselage of the Starship. Unfortunately this design was to far ahead in time for the more conservative Beech designers. On the same trip we visted Lear Fan. They had issues with pressurization of the cabin. My personal opinion is that Lear Fan never fully understood how to design with composite materials.

@FloridaFlying

5 жыл бұрын

Rudolf Abelin I remember you sharing that story on another of my videos. That is very interesting and amazing that you got to see the operation. People sharing stories like yours is one of the main reasons I enjoy making airplane and flying videos. Thank you for the insight

@tulaconalas

5 жыл бұрын

@@FloridaFlying i would like to add that part of the FAA certification process for the Starship was added extra weight to the craft, they requested reinforcement on the composite structure.

@UncleKennysPlace

5 жыл бұрын

@@tulaconalas And due to the considerable increased weight, the plane missed all performance objectives. Beech tried to buy them all back, and mostly succeeded, to negate having to support them; there are but a few in private hands.

@jenniferwhitewolf3784

5 жыл бұрын

Rudolf Abelin My father worked for Goldsworthy Engineering at the Eugene OR office headed by Harold Carlson, as did I for a short time. Some of the concept work for the Goldsworthy tape layers was done in the office up there. Beech wanted to build the fuselage in 2 halves left and right, and then splice them together. I came up with a collapsing mandrel upon which to wind a stronger contiguous fuselage that was rejected in favor of the halves. It was my understanding that Beach did not want to sell the planes.. only lease.. and the few that were sold were sold reluctantly. They wanted to limit the long term liability of unknown composites by removing them from service at a predetermined time, which they did. The few that were sold, are still in service and loved by the owners. The 'glass' dash was indeed glass... those were all "color TV" cathode ray tubes. Aging electronics, not mechanical systems, will eventually ground these fine aircraft. Perhaps they will receive modern electronics. I sure hope so!

@rudolfabelin383

5 жыл бұрын

@@jenniferwhitewolf3784 Hi Jennifer! Glad you are sharing! I think I remember Carlson, if I remember correctly has was doing a lot of the development work. But this was in LA. I remember the two halves. Brandts (and Carlsons?) idea was to do a large filament winding in a geodesic pattern. Fantastic stiffness, bend and torsion. This was an automated process. I remember that some of the positioning system for the filament winding machine was made with an off the shelf rangefinder that was in a Polaroid camera. I still remember Brandt saying "They spent millions on developing this (the range finder) and we can use it for free" 😀 Then you would cut this geodesic structure in two halves. After that glue the skins on them. Interesting with the mandrel, curious! Were you hit by the NIH? (Not Invented Here). Of Brandt daughters I knew Jana best. One of the others daughters husband was a helicopter pilot. He took me on a LA tour, including flying over an Iowa class battleship 😀 After my business trip was over I stayed an extra week and lived at the Goldsworthy residence. Take care!

A local pilot landed a Starship here periodically long after they left the market. It was a very cool aircraft.

The Avtek 400 belongs on this list too. It was built in the Early Eighties and was featured an episode of Airwolf. Another failure was the OMAC laser 300. If you want to add GA kit aircraft to the mix, the Prescott Pusher, and Wheeler Express were short lived failures.

I liked to look of the Piper Jet. Came along at the wrong time.. Skycatcher might have been nice if the price had been better.

Great video. Surprised you didn't mention the piaggio avanti.

@FloridaFlying

5 жыл бұрын

Has it actually failed yet? I only hear great things about it. Only have heard very recently that the company isn’t doing great, but the plane is amazing

@AreeyaKKC

5 жыл бұрын

@@FloridaFlying well they dont produce it anymore. The main user avantair is bankrupt and many are just sitting around collecting dust. Parts come from italy with no us distributors so parts are more expensive. On 22 November 2018, Piaggio Aerospace requested to be placed into receivership after declaring itself insolvent as its restructuring plan failed. After the 2008 financial crash, a key US fractional customer went bust and the P.180 Evo sales are struggling since, from a 2008 peak of 30 deliveries to just three in 2018.

I live in San Jose California, not to far from San Jose International Airport. I believe there is a charter company out there that may own two Starships. What a gorgeous aircraft! I always knew when they were leaving because nothing else sounds like a Starship. It breaks my heart to see the photo of the Starship nose in the jaws of that loader! I never knew the history of the aircraft. Thanks for this great video.

That Lear Fan was beautiful.

Oh yeah, the Adam A500 is so UNIQUE, being an updated version of the SKYMASTER. :P

@almilani4300

4 жыл бұрын

Most people called it the MIX MASTER...

@mrnickbig1

4 жыл бұрын

@@almilani4300 , yes, it was commonly called a Mixmaster. Many planes had nicknames, like the Traumahawk.

Tail number D-ETTH? lol I dont think I would want to fly in that.

@Hoomi2

5 жыл бұрын

I thought the same thing. It might appeal to a Death Metal Rock band, though.

@DChrls

5 жыл бұрын

@@Hoomi2 Or thrash metal giant Megadeth.

@bearlemley

5 жыл бұрын

I flew D-EATH I was in flight test and really did pay attention to the reg no as I had a call sign. The tower guys knew me and my few crashes. While taxing they as me if I was sure I wanted to fly that reg, which made me look at the paperwork. :-)

@assuredaviation9116

4 жыл бұрын

Mobi you can find one by D-EATH

I recently had an opportunity and good fortune to fly right seat in a Beech Starship during the Beech Party at Tullahoma, Tennessee, and loved every moment.

@FloridaFlying

5 жыл бұрын

That’s so awesome! The one thing I remember from when I was a kid was that the climb angle was impressive. Maybe the pilot wanted to do a high performance takeoff at the time. I also remember those wings flexing up and down. What a beauty

Love the Starship! Plan on getting the homebuilt little brother to it, the Velocity, in the future. Gorgeous, fast planes!

#10 -- a gigantic boondoggle. The supersonic home-built jet? No problem. Student pilots welcome.

I wish every failure was a step towards success. that girl wouldn't have forgotten about me if this was true.

Would have loved to see a Lear Fan flying. My cousin spent a number of years working on the project. He worked on so many planes over the years. Designing this part and that. He was a rolling stone Aerospace Engineer. Still have the commemorative coin that was issued by Lear Fan for plane. And I agree, the Star Ship was a beautiful craft. I remember seeing one at Peachtree Dekalb (PDK) Airport a year or two after it came out.

You left out my least favorite airplane, the OMAC Laser 300. I worked at Pratt & Whitney Canada (P&WC) and saw this aircraft at Reno (then powered by a Garrett TPE331). Later I worked on the aircraft powerplant installation design at Albany, Georgia (PT6 pusher design). The aircraft was ill-conceived and the prototype significantly underperformed. The Cessna Caravan filled the utility aircraft niche quite nicely (powered by the P&WC PT6-114). The best part of the OMAC work was that I got to meet Mora Lear at Stead the day the Lear Fan got it's TIA (Type Inspection Authorization) from the FAA. The Lear Fan prototype performed a low-and-over at Stead to celebrate. Good times!

I was certain I was going to see the Cessna TTx on this list. Not exactly failed, but certainly no longer in production. Sure hope someone purchases the TC on this, but it would be a tall order to get back into production.

"Remember, every failure is a step towards success." Tell that to the investors and developers' accountants.

@newperve

4 жыл бұрын

Sometimes steps can be onto sharp painful things.

I saw the first prototype of the Adam A500 up in Cheyenne. They flew it in for a photoshoot. It landed just ahead of me. It was LOUD and the guy had one heck of a time with the light crosswind on taxi.

The last Extra-400 you showed has the ID of "D-ETTH." Not what I'd like to see before I fly. :D

@tomcoryell

4 жыл бұрын

Jim Williams is that a slow death?

I never did like the Skycatcher, especially at that price. It wasn't quite a real airplane. Would have been better to bring back the 150.

@leneanderthalien

5 жыл бұрын

The Skycatcher was a failure because the initial engine (Rotax 912S) was not choice from the american pilots :they choice a much heawyer, noisyer ,thisty , primitive design and expansive Continental 0-200... And basicaly is a ultralight (european rules) more efficient and cost much less as the C162...

@Bartonovich52

5 жыл бұрын

LOL. Sorry... but a Rotax 912S for being all modern doesn’t have much of an advantage over an O-200 of basically an 80 year old design. Fuel consumption is nearly identical at 4-5 GPH. _OPERATIONAL_ weight is the same at just under 200# (coolant isn’t light) Noise is about the same... the higher engine RPM and exhaust noise of the Rotax making up for slower prop RPM. Who cares about technology. Thanks to technology, the Rotax has four failure modes the O-200 doesn’t have. (Gearbox failure, dog clutch failure, coolant leak, water pump failure). There’s a reason why the O-200 and it’s precursors like that A-65, C-75, C-90, etc have been preferred power plants for light aircraft for decades and show little signs of abating in spite of these newer engines.

@SixStringflyboy

5 жыл бұрын

@@Bartonovich52 Long live the One-Fifty/Two! I heard many of the 162s produced met the same sad fate as the Starship fleet. I heard Cessna salvaged parts from some, but many of the airframes were shredded with nothing pulled.

@gloger

5 жыл бұрын

Nobody with a weight of > 175 lbs or an inseam of >30" could fit in that plane.

@johncavanagh1000

4 жыл бұрын

Since the failure of the 162, the value of 150 and 152 have gone up about 25 or 30%

Thanks for all the GA vids...keep up the good work

I live in Saginaw Texas just north of Meacham field which is north of Fort Worth. Every once in awhile I used to see a Beechcraft Starship flying around. But it's been many years since I've seen it.

what about Visionaire Vantage? Co designed/built with Rutan's Scaled Composite, single engine, swept forward wing all composite.

On the sky catcher There was 3 things that doomed it. One it was made in china witch people did not like. Two cost over runs as you said. Other light sports performed better, cost less & had a better range.

@FloridaFlying

5 жыл бұрын

True. I wish it had done better. I like that it was all metal and used the reliable o200.

@jetranger47

5 жыл бұрын

Yup... "made in china" is the real killer.

@wernerdanler2742

5 жыл бұрын

@@jetranger47 then don't ever buy a new Volvo. The engines are made in China. Ugg lol

@jetranger47

5 жыл бұрын

@@wernerdanler2742 Really? Ouch! They'll lose their shirts on warranty repairs.

@DSC800

5 жыл бұрын

@@wernerdanler2742 yup, Volvo, now Chinese owned, has dropped to dead last in brand reliability (Consumer Reports). Don't need that in an airplane.

I used to work at Adam aircraft. I KNEW the A-500 was going to be on this list. I started working there between the original prototype and first actual A-500 "production" model. That job is where I learned that I don't ever want to work in aircraft manufacturing or production carbon fiber / composites again.

Thanks for great video for all aviation enthusiasts. Good commentary and nice analysis. See some of good looking flying birds failed to make a cut in the market.

So far, at half way in, I would bet real money that they all have a failure reason in common. The post 80s financial crash. The money dried up and nobody bought these expensive toys.

Just shook hands with Burt Rutan today at the Air Force Museum in Dayton OH! Him and Dick gave a presentation last night. The Starship was doomed b/c of the FAA. They just were not up to speed on modern materials. Burt also had part in the Adams aircraft, the financier who contracted him was a big fan of the Cessna Skymaster, so wanted to stick to the push/pull configuration. What about the Eclipse?

@FloridaFlying

5 жыл бұрын

That is amazing that you met Burt Rutan. He is the only celebrity figure I would love to meet one day. He is my idol. As for the eclipse, I thought about putting it in the video but I think there is a company that is still supporting it as the eclipse 550. It hasn’t completely died yet... thank you for sharing some extra details on the starship. I enjoy reading the insight people have to share on these aircraft. It’s a shame that a lot of the failed airplanes are some of the most beautiful designs

@michaelwojcik6577

5 жыл бұрын

I actually know the person who owns and operates TWO starships in Dallas. Someday I'm going to get a tour of one of them, our paths just don't cross as often as they used to.

Loved the video! Great narration.

I love the Starship. Got to see one fly years ago. I actually taught one of the relatives of Burt Rutan back when Beechcraft was producing them. Of course the A500 was a modification of the original P38 and later the Cessna Skymaster. There are still a few skymasters around this area. There is one that frequently flies into my local airport, although from a distance it could be the French counterpart. I like your aviation videos. Keep up the good work !

::Getting ready to watch video:: "I wonder if the Beechcraft Starship will be here..." ::Starts video:: "Yep."

@salildarji3510

4 жыл бұрын

Moller?

wow what a channel!

Nice information. Unfortunatly all the aircraft in this show was beautiful specially the first one thank u 🌹

Great video enjoyed this. The Beechcraft Starship is one that should still be flying.

I’m a Lear fan and I’m still around 👀

@mycosys

5 жыл бұрын

do you have an 8track?

@floridablackbear7318

5 жыл бұрын

Only would like the gold electro plated one in Bill's office. Didn't get it, so I'm without. :) @@mycosys

@johnsherman7289

4 жыл бұрын

@@mycosys Voyager 1&2 have and in a billion years, long after humans have disappeared, those 8 tracks will still be circling the cosmos.

1:57 Advances in science could bring it back to the market and be competitive.

Walla Walla had its own Starship, but the owner spent every dime he had building up spares, and getting RVSM certification. Selling it to a private charter company did not bring him anywhere even. Loved to climb in that beauty, and listen to it running.

A well thought out video. Thanks.

not sure that 'payload' is the word you were looking for with the adam a500 - i think you meant 'dry weight' which of course would have reduced payload.

Yeah I'm going to build myself a supersonic jet inside my garage at home how hard could it be, just need to finish the lawnmower I've been trying to put together first. Ahahahahahaah!

@00HiGhGuY00

4 жыл бұрын

Not much harder than any other plane. The hard part is the engineering which takes place long before the kit shows up in your garage.