Steve Garvey belongs in the HOF. Zero scandals, one of the best all around players of the 70's, numerous All-Star games, accolades and awards both offensivley and defensively. How he's not in the HOF is beyond me.

@MikeHart72

4 ай бұрын

Garvey absolutely should be in the HOF

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good Choice

@greghoadley1815

4 ай бұрын

Gotta disagree. Only 272 homers (only one 30 HR season), 117 OPS+ and .329 OBP all very low for a first baseman. All-Star games are just a popularity contest, and he played for LA, a major media market. His 3 All-Star appearances with the Padres were not deserved -- I know, b/c I'm a lifelong Padre fan. (FTR, his game 4 HR against the Cubs in the 84 NLCS is still a cherished memory for me, but I still don't think he belongs in the HOF.)

@frankramirez8618

4 ай бұрын

Garvey sure as heck doesn't belong in the U. S. Senate

@MikeHart72

4 ай бұрын

@@greghoadley1815 Garvey has a lot of 200 hit seasons, more than a lot of people in the HOF

No one ever brings up Lou Whitaker, he should have went in with Trammell. Whitaker's numbers stack up with most other second basemen in the Hall and he and Trammell retired as the all time double play duo.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

I can't disagree. Good points on Whitaker.

@rickallanolsen

4 ай бұрын

There are six second basemen in the Hall Of Fame. Lou has better numbers than all of them.

@DillDough-dn4eb

4 ай бұрын

Not only is he not in the hall of fame. His voting tallies were outrageously low. It's borderline a crime

@DillDough-dn4eb

4 ай бұрын

@@rickallanolsen not to be an annoying corrector but I dunno where you got that info from but it's 100% not true. There are at least 20 2b in hall of fame and a bunch of them got better numbers. One of them is a career 358 batter with 2 triple crowns for God's sake lol

@billybandyk0720

4 ай бұрын

​@@rickallanolsenAll xcpt Joe Morgan.

Steve Garvey Lou Whitaker, Dave Parker, Luis Tiant, Vida Blue always come to mind for me

@birdlandnetwork83

3 ай бұрын

There are good players on that list. Thanks for sharing

@user-ki1un4jg2d

2 ай бұрын

Vida may not have the longevity as a top pitcher to make the hof .

Hearing someone outside of Atlanta say Murphey deserves to be in is nice to hear. He won back to back MVP's, but he was a much better person than player, hope Murph gets in someday, because his speech will be great. Jones deserves to get in as well. Willie Mays said he was the best defensive centerfielder he had ever seen, that says it all right there, plus he was on all those division championship teams.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for the comments. Dale Murphy was awesome. He is so underrated. He was great!!

@guyray1504

4 ай бұрын

Even if i hadn't seen A. Jones bat i think his outfield play is good enough to get into the HOF.

Shoeless Joe Jackson should be in the hall of fame because if he was trying to lose the game he was doing a bad job he hit over .400 in that series

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

There are some points to show he did his best. But you never know and I guess that's why he's not in. They said he was in on it and they can't prove he wasn't. Not definitely anyway. I'm not disagreeing I just see why he's not.

@anthonytropiano6650

4 ай бұрын

Pls look at sweet Lou career he is better then almost 90% of the second basemen who are in the hall .yes he is in as a team with tram ( the best double play combo ) .for us tiger fans he should be in .

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

@@anthonytropiano6650 Fair point. That's why these videos are fun. Like to hear other opinions as long as they're respectful. Whitaker was a really good player for sure.

@notacynic1

4 ай бұрын

Look at his numbers in the games they lost. The ones they were dumping. He didn't hit .400 in those. Or even .200, if I'm remembering right

@ffdaddy69

4 ай бұрын

besides Shoeless Joe the most obvious choice is Pete Rose!

Dave Stieb. The channel Secret Base did a 4 part series on him and his career and using analytics on how good he actually was during his career. He should be on the list.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

He was good. no doubt.

How about Dave Concepcion? He was the best SS I ever saw play. He also invented the bounce throw to 1st. Good hitter and could steal/run.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

That's a great choice. Awesome player for sure. Thanks for watching.

@kendallevans4079

4 ай бұрын

Bounce was because his arm wasn't the best and if he didn't launch it high it wouldn't make it.

@Pythagoras1963

4 ай бұрын

he only has a WAR of 40.1 267 hitter is not that good when there is very little power

@24HeySay

4 ай бұрын

He wasn't even as good as his contemporary Campy Campaneris, who's never getting in. Plus, Concepcion had several HOF'ers in the Reds lineup whose presence guaranteed he would get great pitches to hit, but he still wasn't that good of an offensive player. Very good player, but not HOF material. Plus he played half his games on astroturf, which almost always guaranteed nice bounces on grounders.

@othgmark1

4 ай бұрын

Ozzie Smith was a significantly better short stop than Davey.

No one talks about one old time player that is a more worthy candidate than several on your list. Bob Johnson played from 1933 - 1945. In his 13 seasons he had 100 RBIs, or more, 8 times. 7 times he did this in consecutive years, He had more lifetime RBIs in 13 years (1283) than Dale Murphy had in 18. He has a lifetime OPS of .899. His OPS+ is 139. His lifetime on base percentage is an amazing .393. He hit 288 HRs in those 13 years. He was thought of as an excellent fielder. He played for mostly bad teams and was overshadowed by other stars of the era. It has always amazed me that his name is never brought up. He deserves to be in the HOF. As Casey Stengel once said, "You could look it up".

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good Player for sure. Not sure he's better than several on this list but then again this list isn't about whether they should or shouldn't be in the Hall. That being said his numbers were good.

@user-oi2px2dv5h

4 ай бұрын

I guess it is a matter of opinion. He is the least talked about legitimate candidate for the HOF. His numbers are better than some already in. Read about him and I bet you will change your mind. He was extremely well regarded by his fellow players. His numbers are HOF worthy. He played for the As when Mack had sold off most of the stars and he had little around him. Makes his numbers even more remarkable to me. I did like your video.@@birdlandnetwork83

@mariocisneros911

2 ай бұрын

Ok

@Diosprometheus

Ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 Dale Murphy played catcher his first few years with the Braves as did Craig Biggio for Houston.

@Diosprometheus

23 күн бұрын

Bob Johnson had the misfortune of Playing for the Philadelphia A's in the 1930's. He is without doubt one of the best left-fielders to every play baseball and during his time put up Hall of Fame worthy numbers with a team that was miserable and never had a winning season while he played for them. Not many people even know who he is today and I doubt the modern A's even know much about him. He is one of the lost players in baseball.

Will Clark? Cons: only 2176 career hits, 284 HRS. So longevity stats are a bit low due to not extending his MLB career as long as he could have. Pros: .303 lifetime BA, outstanding combo of power and BA, led SF to the World Series, was a dynamic clutch star, one of a kind batting style, great role model, retired early to devote himself to his autistic son. Will Clark has my vote, he was singlehandedly worth the price of admission!

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

He was pretty awesome. Love Will Clark.

@othgmark1

4 ай бұрын

The thrill was exactly what you wanted a baseball hero to be.

@jeffw1267

4 ай бұрын

And he only called teammates the n-word once in a while. Not every day.

@robertanderson2898

4 ай бұрын

Also an .880 OPS and 137 OPS+ ...... and a 56.5 WAR which is higher than Hall of Famers like Harold Baines and Tony Oliva. Had Clark played 5 more seasons he'd have made the HOF.

@stevespatola763

4 ай бұрын

Maybe a HOF is needed for the BBWA turndown because they may have had an issue with a player not related to his performance, rather his personality.

David Concepcion-#13 Big Red Machine better hitter than Ozzie in regular AND postseason. Smooth with the leather and great base runner.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

good points.

Ron Santo was at the top of this list for many years, but that’s been resolved.

@birdlandnetwork83

Ай бұрын

Fair enough

Jim Edmonds? Cons: just under 2k hits, so longevity wasn’t achieved. Pros: 393 HRS. Arguably the best defensive CF in MLB history. See his greatest catches video clips, no CF was better…

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

He was very good for sure.

SAMMY SOSA, is the only player with 60 Home Runs in 3 straight seasons....AVERAGED over 55 HR six straight, and had 9 straight 100 RBI seasons where he averaged j127 RBI

@birdlandnetwork83

18 күн бұрын

Good player. PED's, corked bats etc don't help his cause.

Here is the entire list of eligible, non-steroid MLB players with 2 MVPs not in the HOF..... Dale Murphy.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good one

@jimmydabaker

4 ай бұрын

I concur.

@Mr-Angelo0U812

4 ай бұрын

​@@jimmydabakeri concur with your concurness😂

@floydparr8006

4 ай бұрын

Roger Maris too.

@charleynewman4783

Ай бұрын

Maris isn’t never getting in

Dick Allen and Dale Murphy but no Dwight Evans? The most HRs and Extra Base hits of the 1980s.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

That's a good one.

@thomasblackwell462

4 ай бұрын

Dewey

@Mr-Angelo0U812

4 ай бұрын

​@@thomasblackwell462and Chewy! Chewbacca😂

@tomtalley2192

4 ай бұрын

Evans was the best right fielder from about 1975-1988.

@user-ki1un4jg2d

2 ай бұрын

As long as crybaby Darrel Evans and his sissy . 248 lifetime batting average never makes it in the hof .

I agree with your list wholeheartedly. You did quite a bit of homework. There were so many great ballplayers to choose from.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for the kind words. Hope you come back and watch more. Have a great day

The PED issue will be with us for a while longer. Vada Pinson, Tommy John, Dave Parker, Lou Whitaker, Mark Grace......jus' sayin'

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Yes it will be with us forever. Thanks for the comments. Good list.

@Diosprometheus

Ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 if you judge the years Vada Pinson played with Frank Robinson you would think he was a sure HOFer/ He never hit the same after Robby became an O and while good he was just a average hitter.

Dick Allen - love the man. Him smoking a cigarette for a baseball card. Love it!

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

LOL

@fratzogmopars

4 ай бұрын

Dick was a fan favorite in Chicago. If he had a longer career and applied himself he would have been a shoe in for the hall. Anyone who hits two inside the park homeruns in the same game, and blasts one over the 445 foot center field wall in cavernous old Sox Park belongs in the HOF.

@Mr-Angelo0U812

4 ай бұрын

​@@fratzogmoparslol don't forget Greg Luzinskies 2 rooftop shots at old Comisky

@fratzogmopars

4 ай бұрын

@@Mr-Angelo0U812 Luzinski had more than that, and Kittle had 7 rooftop shots.

@dace938

4 ай бұрын

Re: artificial turf: "If a horse can't eat it, I don't want to play on it.

How about JOHN FRANCO who finished with over 400 saves, the most by a lefthanded closer in MLB history?? HE DESERVES TO BE IN THE HALL OF FAME.

@birdlandnetwork83

Ай бұрын

Maybe so. I can't put him on my list though.

Great video. ⚾💯

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Thank you very much.

Dick Allen while playing left field with the Dodgers threw out two runners at the plate in The Same Inning!

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Cool.

Dale Murphy , Cobra , Keith Hernandez , Curt Schilling, Billy Wagner , Beltran , D Allen

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Some good ones on there. I think Wagner will get in next year.

@unkledoda420

4 ай бұрын

Beltran is only in his second year of eligibility on the HoF ballot. And he's already getting like 50+% of votes, he'll get in within a couple more votes.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

@@unkledoda420 strong possibility for sure.

@briancanedy3894

4 ай бұрын

Curt Shilling for sure

@charleynewman4783

Ай бұрын

Roger Clemens?

Steve garvey

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

He's come up alot.

I Think Tacoma Park's Steve Barber had a chance top ,make the Hall of Fame had he not injured his arm in 1966. For the rest of his career he had trouble winning games or staying healthy. Rafael Palmeiro has the HOF numbers but no chance of gong into the Hall. He is one of only seven players in MLB history to be a member of both the 500 home run club (569) and the 3,000 hit club, (3020) He also has 586 doubles

@birdlandnetwork83

Ай бұрын

Funny enough I knew his son John Barber. Used to work with him at Kibby's restaurant a very long time ago. Good pitcher for sure. Palmeiro put up good numbers but the PEDs will always be a black mark for him.

@Diosprometheus

Ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 I met Jim Gentile's son once. Was not happy when his dad was traded to KC for Norm Siebern. As it turned out neither one of them would last long in the majors.

Pretty good list - interesting to include a few not usually cited. Most lists like these are limited to ten selections (players) - which invites reactions for players not included - and maybe that that's the point. The list here is notable, for about half the players, for career totals. Low numbers almost automatically disqualify the candidate. I once read that a great deal of luck correlates with HoF membership. A hall-of-famer is (was) lucky to avoid injury - thus assuring many PA's, starts, and save-chances. Also "lucky" - to postpone aging and continue to be highly productive late in ones career. SUSTAINED high-production is the most-notable feature for members in the Hall. A couple tips: 1) Right at the start, clearly state that this survey reviews greatness, which is not equal to worthiness for induction. State this at least two more times - help viewers understand your POV. 2) Limit usages like "to me", "my opinion", etc. This is implied. It's tiresome to hear it three times for one player, It's amateurish and hurts credibility. Still, it was worth the time - especially for those interesting few.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

I'm not sure if your comments were a dig or a compliment. Either way thanks for watching.

Many on this list either juiced (and got busted, see Palmeiro and Ramirez, respectively), admitted to juicing (ARod, who was suspended for it) a/o were accused of juicing based on their insane numbers late in their careers (Bonds and Clemens). Two gambled a/o took money to lose, though w/ Jackson I'd be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. With Rose, not so much. Andruw Jones and Dick Allen still have a chance (w/ either the BBWAA a/o a future Vets Committee). Murphy was impressive in the 80s, but stalled out.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

All very good point.s

@jimfrontz3457

4 ай бұрын

Tired of hearing about the juice it was ok when doctors gave it to them to heal quicker, it was ok when Maguire & Sosa were battling for home run record ( Sosa didn't do steroids) then all sudden its bad. Bonds was walked, intentionally walked was lucky to see a strike in AB. The percentage of the times he was on it was unbelievable . Steroids might have made it go farther but didn't have anything to do with timing or hitting the ball. Bonds needs to be in. HOF isn't full of good people so stop acting like saints

@maddie0270

4 ай бұрын

Rose never bet against his team

@jamesfields2916

4 ай бұрын

@@maddie0270 how could you prove that? Not saying he did but he opened the door to huge issues of being in position to influence the outcomes of games.

@jamesfields2916

4 ай бұрын

Bonds never tested positive. Writers bringing their own biases into the voting kept him out. I'll never understand why writers think these guys have to be your friends. Bonds has admitted lately he should have probably handled the press better.

Andruw Jones, Lou Whitaker, Kenny Lofton

@birdlandnetwork83

2 ай бұрын

Good picks

Murph was one of the best CF, also......He should be in HOF!!!!

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Whether or not he should be in I won't argue. I just know he was pretty awesome.

I love the crazy Bonds stat where one season he had more total bases than official at bats thanks to 232 base on balls. 373 official at bats and got on base 376 times!

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

There was a time when everyone was scared to pitch to him.

@jamesfields2916

4 ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 I'm more amazed at his walks records. Intentionally walked like 17 times with bases loaded. Intentionally walked with nobody on. Dude had the best eye in the history of baseball. Might get one pitch all night and crush it to go along with four walks

@charleynewman4783

Ай бұрын

What year was that

@charleynewman4783

Ай бұрын

Crazy thing is he only hit 11 grand slams

@jamesfields2916

Ай бұрын

@@charleynewman4783 2004.

Larry Bowa. If Mazeroski and Ozzie Smith are in the Hall of Fame based on defense, then he should be also

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Haven't seen Bowa's come up yet. Not sure I'd link him with Ozzie Smith. Smith has the highest defensive WAR ever with a 44.2 to go along with 13GG. Bowa's Defensive WAR is 19.1 which is 57th with 2GG. The comparison to Mazeroski I get but not Ozzie. Especially if we're talking defensive only. Plus this video isn't about whether or not they should be in the HOF. It's simply a list of the 10 best players NOT in the Hall, not if they deserve to be or not. Thanks for the comments.

@user-ki1un4jg2d

Ай бұрын

I like Campaneris . Same lifetime batting average and homers as Maz , a great fielder , base stealer and clutch hitter in the post season . I would rather have team players like Maz , Campy , Brett Butler and Robby Thomson on my team than selfish Rickey Henderson , who attempted to steal bases when the Oakland A's were winning by 9 runs or trailing by 9 runs just to set base stealing records . That isn't baseball . That is showing up the other team !

Shoeless Joe my #1 with Rose #2 , and Clemens #3 , Bonds #4 and #5 would be Dick Allen , a very good 1st Baseman . The best American League player for two years.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good list.

Before Manny Ramirez imploded, he was the odds-on favorite to break Lou Gehrig's Grand Slam record-- which A-Rod eventually broke.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

He was on his way no doubt. He's still third though. A Rod, Gehrig, Manny and Murray

@Mr-Angelo0U812

4 ай бұрын

​@@birdlandnetwork83Robin Ventura hit a lot also

@ThomasBragdon-cm2jz

4 ай бұрын

Manny should be in the greatest 2 strike hitter in baseball. Roger also if they did ped it was at the end of career because of age and injuries

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

@@ThomasBragdon-cm2jz whether at the end of their careers or not doesn't make it right. If you're old and you can't play anymore then it is what it is. Accept it and move on . Be happy with the career you had. Nope they couldn't do that. Greed clouds judgement. EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!

@charleynewman4783

Ай бұрын

Grand slams are kinda of overrated tbh

For all the times the Character Clause has been invoked to keep a borderline candidate out (Dick Allen, Omar Vizquel, etc.), I can't think of a single time it's been invoked to get a borderline candidate in. And there's one borderline candidate whose character should've been enough: Dale Murphy.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Really good guy. No doubt.

great job

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Thanks Pete!

Ummm...no, Manny Ramirez does not hold the Major League or American League record for RBI's in a season. That would be Hack Wilson and Lou Gehrig respectively.

@birdlandnetwork83

3 ай бұрын

Ummmm........thanks captain obvious. That is correct. Hack Wilson holds the record with 191. Manny isn't even in the top 10 all time for a single season. I didn't say he held the all time record for a single season. Either way the record is Hack Wilson. The way I said it definitely sounds like I meant all time but I didn't. Thanks for pointing out the possible error in the video.

Has no one mentioned Keith Hernandez? Far and away, the greatest defensive 1st baseman in the last 50 years.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Great defensive 1st baseman. His name has come up

@user-jf4nj3ez2k

4 ай бұрын

And a great actor playing himself on "Seinfeld".

@jaynash2645

4 ай бұрын

They say he was a bad teammate, sorry to the writers and loved the Devils dandruff a little too much.. 😂. But he could hit and he had that Velcro glove at first base so yeah I kinda agree

@MIKIEEYEZ1975

4 ай бұрын

@@jaynash2645” Devil’s Dsndruf as in Blow? 😂😂😂😂

@jaynash2645

4 ай бұрын

@@MIKIEEYEZ1975 lol yeah… rumors that the 86 met team was snorting the field lines before the game..😭 I mean I’ve saw that was part of the Cardinals issues with him…most of baseball used greenies back then , amphetamines just in case your young and never heard of them. Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black in my opinion but…

DWIGHT EVANS, if Ozzie Smith is in the hall of fame for his defense then Evans should be too, he was a decent hitter too. One of the best right field ever , great arm!

@joemac4880

4 ай бұрын

Agree with this choice BIG Time!!

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

He's a good one.

@b.j.reuter7215

4 ай бұрын

Cannon

@charleynewman4783

Ай бұрын

Elite hitter I think

Roy Hobbs?

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

LOL!! I love Roy Hobbs!!!

Palmeiro dug his own grave after testifying in front of congress saying he never did roids and then almost immediately testing positive.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Still a heck of a ballplayer. Not in and shouldn't be in but deserves to be on this list.

@jamesfields2916

4 ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 no doubt he was. Just think in 1985 Mississippi State had him,Will Clark,Jeff Brantley and Bobby Thigpen. Lost in the last elimination game at the CWS on a walk off grand slam by Miami.

Joe Carter. 1445 rbi Harold Baines 1624 rbi Bert Blyleven 3701 k’s Lou Whitaker 2470 r+rbi Dick Allen

@birdlandnetwork83

2 ай бұрын

Good list

How about Bill Buckner? His lifetime stats certainly put him in HOF territory. He is unfortunately best remembered for that dribbler that went between his bad ankles in the 1988 world series.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

There have been several comments on him.

@Gto1927

4 ай бұрын

That would be 86 World Series

@mifan67karaokeandsingalong15

4 ай бұрын

It was 1986 the Redsox lost the world series to the Mets

@Gto1927

4 ай бұрын

@@mifan67karaokeandsingalong15 please, don’t remind me

@MIKIEEYEZ1975

4 ай бұрын

1986 W.S. Douche!! 😂😂😂😂

To hell with the writers and the veterans committee. I think there should be certain milestones that automatically gain a spot in the HOF. They are 500 home runs, 3,000 strikeouts, 300 wins, four awards such as MVP or Cy Young, 10 times picked for the All Star Game or ,300 lifetime batting average for a career of 15 years. If you hit any of those marks, you should be in, not subject to the whims of sportswriters.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comments.

@user-ki1un4jg2d

2 ай бұрын

Lefty O'Doul .

I understand those 1919 white Sox players who agreed to throw that world series were stiffed concerning the money they were promised

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Maybe. Who knows

@charlescline8943

4 ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 that's what I heard 😐

@birdlandnetwork83

3 ай бұрын

@@charlescline8943I didn't realize you were there. LOL!! I'm kidding.

Rose admitted to gambling on REDS games , but to always win. If he would have bet against the Reds ,I would have had serious problems with it , but Rose would have been a Billionaire , so he is telling the truth I believe.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

I understand the logic but I just can't take his word on anything. His gambling obsession was just as big as his obsession to win. I would not put it past him to bet against his team. Sad because based on his numbers alone he's an obvious Hall of Famer.

barry pete should be in steve gravey fred lynn dave concepcion dale murphey were great players and should be in

@birdlandnetwork83

Ай бұрын

Can't let everyone in. It's the Hall of Fame for a reason. Not the Hall of Very Good

Eight Men Out came out in 1988 which means there were still people who could have seen that movie who saw Shoeless Joe Jackson play in person.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

There's a possibility for sure.

Rusty Staub belongs in the HOF. Prolific hitter.

@birdlandnetwork83

Ай бұрын

Good hitter.

What about David Concepción? I think he belongs in the Hall of fame...

@birdlandnetwork83

Ай бұрын

Not sure. Didn't make my list.

Dwight Evans, Steve Garvey & Dave Parker ahead of Dale Murphy & Louis Tiant as a Pitcher is at least Borderline.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good list.

I totally agree with this list and I guess in time and when all is said and done and the dust is settled put them all in the Hall of Fame. As far as Pete Rose goes you can debate it forever but the way I understand it he bet on his team to WIN. The MLB HOF is based on individual statistics and these players were incredibly great.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the comments. Great thoughts

@mongoardath1

4 ай бұрын

As for Rose, the rule did not differentiate on how you bet. You were forbidden from betting on baseball while working within MLB in any capacity, with banishment as penalty. Pretty simple; he is ineligible and should be. Don't break the main rule when you have seen that posting on the clubhouse door more than just about any other human being.

@carlazaz1690

4 ай бұрын

Pete Rose can go in when Bart Giamatti gets up out of his grave that Rose put him in to award him the plaque.

3 from the same country… Juan Gonzalez, Carlos Beltran, Carlos Delgado

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good ones. Surprisingly I think you're the first person to mention Beltran in the comments.

I used to believe in the reasons to ban Pete Rose, but nowadays every major sport leagues are willing to kill to get their hands on that online gambling money. Do we really need to be so cruel to let an old man suffer while still having lead the history of baseball in total hits?

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Fair points. I said this with a few other comments. The issue with Rose is he agreed to the lifetime ban. Part of the ban was he in ineligible to be elected. I don't know if he did or didn't be on the Reds. All I know is he's not in. He was great though. Plus I will say this. Actions require accountability. Sometimes cruel is what's needed for the lesson to be learned. Otherwise it keeps happening. Love the comments though. Have a great day.

@Mr-Angelo0U812

4 ай бұрын

​@@birdlandnetwork83and not to mention that possibly Ichiro Suzuki if he played all his years in the Major Leagues i think he would have shattered Roses hit record. I agree with you about consequences totally 👍✌

Top 3 for me are Bonds, Clemens and ARod. Ask me to make the best starting 9 since ww2, I put all 3 on it.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

I would agree.

Got one for you...TED KLUSZEWSKI!...Between 1953-1957, he was BEST Total hitter in the National League! FORGET DALE MURPHY!

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good player for sure. At least for a four year stretch.

Yes on Andruw Jones! Harold Baines was a professional hitter. But that's all he was.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Agreed

I respect some of your list

@birdlandnetwork83

2 ай бұрын

Thank you?

Cool list - had to subscribe. I'm not an O's fan, Cubs actually. But what they did last season was amazing. And as a baseball fan, I think it's really cool to listen to what the true fans say. Hoping the O's have another great season (Anybody but the Yanks in the AL East!😂)

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the kind words. We'll be doing lots of stuff as well as Orioles. We're all about just having fun here. No controversy or problems. I do this channel because I love the Orioles and Baseball and Love to share that passion with other fans. Hope to see your comments in other videos.

@Mr-Angelo0U812

4 ай бұрын

​@@birdlandnetwork83it's cool your an Orioles fan. Got a question for you. My dad passed away but he collected baseball cards and showed me once a card of Cal Ripken holding his bat & the bottom knob either said FU in initials or both full words i can't remember. Have you ever seen that baseball card?

Confusing disqualified players with those just not voted in. By the way, Jackson played long enough to be in Hall, but was disqualified. Jackson took money, admitted it. No one said he did not play to win, but clearly took the money and admitted it. If you actually visit Cooperstown, Jackson is referenced throughout the building. Certainly not forgotten.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Not confusing disqualified with those just not voted in. The whole point of the video was to list the 10 best players not in the Hall of Fame. This isn't about why they're not in or if they should be!!! I've been to the Hall of fame four times (twice for inductions) and I know Jackson is throughout but his plaque isn't on that wall.

@Mr-Angelo0U812

4 ай бұрын

​@@birdlandnetwork83that's cool you went to 2 inductions. Which players?

@jonathanmouton1457

4 ай бұрын

Jackson did not take the money.read the facts.

@birdlandnetwork83

3 ай бұрын

@@Mr-Angelo0U812Well I'm an Orioles fan so I was there for Eddie Murray and Cal Ripken

Murphy was better than Harold Blaine’s and Mauer

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Fair point.

Palmeiro testified in front of Congress that he didn't juice. Right or wrong, that sealed his HOF fate.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

I agree.

Dick Allen is a head scratcher. Am I missing something? Did he do something controversial ? He has Cooperstown numbers. Love the list all those guys have Cooperstown numbers and all belong in the Hall of Fame. What are your thoughts on Curt Schilling. Dose he belong in Cooperstown ?

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Curt Schilling definitely has a case. Great numbers.

@fratzogmopars

4 ай бұрын

Some sports writers didn’t like Allen.

@Mr-Angelo0U812

4 ай бұрын

​@@fratzogmoparshis own mama didn't like him😂

@fratzogmopars

4 ай бұрын

His White Sox teammates loved him. Heard your mama loved him too.🤣@@Mr-Angelo0U812

@craigorr9713

4 ай бұрын

Schilling is a monumental jackass, but on-field performance should put him in.

Lou Whitaker. He didn’t play nice with reporters and it cost him. He should have been first eligible in. Sweet Lou

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good Player for sure.

As you are an 0s fan what thoughts on the G.Davis trade?

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

In hindsight the trade was one of the worst in Orioles history (the Eddie Murray trade was the worst to me) because they traded away Pete Harnisch, Steve Finley and Curt Schilling. Schilling is a borderline HOFer, Finley had a marvelous career and Harnisch was pretty good. At the time the trade made sense. Trade for proven commodity in Davis who was 29 and in his prime and was hitting 30hr/season in the cavernous Astro dome for three guys that were promising but unproven. The trade is a bad one for sure. Wish we could have that one back.

Add Steve Garvey and Kirk Shilling.....11+12

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

good ones

The Hall of Fame doesn't take in consideration on how a player affected the game outside the stats.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Fair point

Dave Parker...nuff said!

@birdlandnetwork83

Ай бұрын

Good Player.

A lot of players have similar totals to Dale Murphy and you're not in the Hall of Fame

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

I agree. I never actually said Dale Murphy belonged in the Hall of Fame. I actually didn't say any of the players on my list belong in the Hall of Fame. That wasn't the point of the video. It's just a list of the 10 best NOT in. Nothing more nothing less.

All the PED stars need a wing in the HOF because seriously…..You can give these current guys the juice now and they will NOT put up AROD or Bonds Numbers. Those guys are special.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Sad part is those guys didn't even need to use PEDs and they were special. Sad just sad!! Greed and Fame does that to people.

@Mr-Angelo0U812

4 ай бұрын

​@@birdlandnetwork83Dave (King Kong) Kingman never needed any anything either back in the day to hit some incredible bombs.

Bonds was great , I was a Griffey guy but you can’t deny he was great before his body and head swoll up. Best baseball story of the 80s had Pirates manager watching him and a skinny Bonds hit 5 consecutive hrs during batting practice in the spring and Leyland says anyone can pull 5 hrs so Bonds hit the next 5 to the opposite field and made the team out of spring training… I didn’t like him whatsoever but he 100% deserves to be in along with Clemens and Palmeiro. Today they seem to be inducting guys who’d never got a sniff 40 yrs ago and leaving out guys who did it for years. You being a Baltimore guy gotta ask if you believe the 1996 50 hr season of the sideburns was Met rx as he claimed or steroids? He was big and cut but not nearly as bulky but more than likely he did. Palmeiro cut his own throat with the finger pointing I’ve never speech then testing positive and disappearing.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good Points. Definitely think Brady was on something, Had the one season of 50 and never came close again. Of course Davey Johnson hit like 45 for the Mets one year. That doesn't necessarily mean he was using. Love the conversation.

1 - Pete Rose 2 - Shoeless Joe Jackson 3 - Rocky Colavito 4 - Smokey Joe Wood 5 - Maury Wills 6 - Richie Allen 7 - Roy Face 8 - Bucky Walters 9 - Heinie Groh 10 - Luis Tiant 11 - Ken Boyer 12 - Tommy John 13 - Don Newcombe 14 - Larry Doyle 15 - Carl Furillo

@birdlandnetwork83

2 ай бұрын

Good list

@user-ki1un4jg2d

2 ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 Thanks . And i even left off Stan Hack , Babe Adams , Steve Garvey , Mickey Lolich , Dale Murphy , Ken Williams Ed Reulbach , Dick Groat , Bill Freehan , Jimmy Wynn and Jerry Grote , players i also believe should be in the hof . And there are even more .

@birdlandnetwork83

2 ай бұрын

@@user-ki1un4jg2d remember though it's the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Everybody. Great players get in only.

@user-ki1un4jg2d

2 ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 Jerry Grote for defense , like old timer Ray Schalk . Remember , the 1960s was the 2nd dead ball era with all of the great hof pitchers .

@charleynewman4783

Ай бұрын

Bill Mazo should not be in

It’s been said that two thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third was covered by Andrew Jones.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

LOL!! Good one

Shoeless Joe like Pete Rose was banned from baseball!,

@birdlandnetwork83

Ай бұрын

Correct.

You should take the PED guys off your list, and Pete Rose for that matter. Everyone knows the obvious guys not in and why. Albert Belle had a dominant career, and he belongs on your list.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Thanks for the input but if you actually watched the video which I'm pretty sure you didn't, you'd know The video isn't about whether they should or shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame. It's just a list of the 10 best players in my opinion that aren't in. Nothing more or nothing less. Belle was good but didn't make my list. H

As far as pete rose he should.be in. In today's world.and.all the.gambing.its. crazy. I do believe he didn't bet on his own team so put him in

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

He agreed to the lifetime ban. I respectfully disagree. He shouldn't be in. Which is sad because he was great.

Lou Whitaker should be on your list….

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

I've been hearing that alot. Good player for sure.

Steroids should have it's own ticket in the hall of fame.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

There are many that agree with you.

@Brownskidmarksonmyunderwear

4 ай бұрын

We'll call it The Hall of Shame

If Piazza is in, then EVERY 'roid user who is worthy should be in. I worked at Dodger stadium during his time there. He absolutely did steriods .

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Well is you saw him do them first hand which I'm assuming you did because you worked there then I would agree. That said if you're just assuming he did then I can't agree.

If you want the PED guys in the Hall of Fame, start a PED league and you won't be as bored with the rash of most major league teams today. The PED guys took baseball to it's ultimate popularity in history, and the owners were happy raking in all the money. When Jim Brown ruled the National Football League for nine years, nobody accused him of using any PEDs or anything else. He stood miles above any of his competition; some people are like that. Bo Jackson would have been one of those had he not got hurt...he'd be the only man who was capable of making both the baseball and football Hall of Fame ! Baseball has become so boring that a few more PED users would help the game. All Ped users don't always rise to the top of their sport; you still need talent !

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

I honestly can't agree. Jim Brown was head and shoulders above the rest but he didn't use PEDs these guys did. It's one thing to be accused of PEDs it's another to be found guilty or linked to them. I also don't agree that the game is boring. I absolutely love baseball because it's not all video game numbers. It's about pitching, defense, move runners over, get em in. strategy is back in the game it's not just about who hits the most home rungs. Baseball is such a hard sport. Nothing is harder in sports than trying to hit a baseball. That's why you can fail 7 out of 10 times and still be considered great. They were extremely talented I agree 100% but that wasn't enough for them. They wanted more so they used PEDs. Greed clouds judgement every single time!! I do agree with you on Bo Jackson. I saw him play. He was amazing.

Are Curt Shilliing and Tim Wakefield in the HOF? I liked both of them.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Neither are in the Hall of Fame. Wakefield just doesn't have the numbers. Good pitcher and was a knuckleball guy but not Hall of Fame worthy. Schilling on the other hand.....he had good numbers and was really close to getting in. He's off the ballot now (you have to get at least 5% of the vote to stay on the ballot and need 75% to be elected with 10yrs or you come off) because his ten years are up. Too bad. He got really close at 71%

@arthurmcdermott3312

4 ай бұрын

Schilling was not voted in due to his conservative views. The voters are a liberal base of baseball writers not actual players. Would be nice if the voters could be your peers. People who play the game not just write about it.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

@@arthurmcdermott3312 no system is perfect and even with the players i'm sure there will be complaints about ones voted in or not voted in. It's pretty much been this way from the beginning and for the most part they get it right.

Well other leagues like the NFL puts in 4 to 6 each year. Why doesnt MLB/ base hall of fame voters , have a minimum like 3-5 which must go in

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

They can vote for up to 10 players. Personally I like the fact that it's extremely hard to get in. It should be that way! It's the Hall of Fame not the Hall of Very Good. Mistakes have been made within the voting process no doubt but for the most part I feel the writers get it right.

How about Joey Albert Belle for a 10-year career almost 400 home runs in 10 years

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Scary player for a decade for sure.

C.mon. Where's Roger Maris?

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Maris had three great years and the rest were ok, nothing special. Doesn't make my list.

@user-ki1un4jg2d

Ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 Rocky Colavito .

@jellomarx

21 күн бұрын

Dick Allan was not a good fielder

Vada Pinson

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

ok

my boy Bill Buckner, got MORE career hits than 70% of the players in the HOF. Buckner got MORE hits than any player on that 86 Mets team. Dale Murphy like Buckner with the Cubs. played on A LOT of BAD teams in Atlanta. there numbers/Buckner, and Murphy, would have been even better on contending/BETTER teams.

@mysticakhenaton1701

4 ай бұрын

Buckner got MORE hits in the 70's and 80's. than ALL other players doing that time...except, Pete Rose.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Buckner was a good hitter. There's a case for him here I agree. He didn't do anything great but did get hits. He wasn't a home run hitter, he wasn't an RBI guy, He wasn't a stolen base guy, he wasn't great defensively but he did get hits and his lifetime average is good. It's not a knock on him it's just he's one of those guys that was good, and consistent but didn't do anything great. I think that's why he's forgotten alot. Thanks for the comments.

@Dominos-el7qr

4 ай бұрын

Did Buckner have more hits than Rod Carew? Maybe, but I can't believe that.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

@@Dominos-el7qr No. Buckner had over 1700 hits. Carew was over 3000 for their careers.

@unkledoda420

4 ай бұрын

I wouldn't even say Buckner qualifies for Hall of very good. He racked up some hits but even though he played like 22 or 23 years he only ended up with 2700+. He never put up a season higher than 3.7 WAR, only had 3 seasons with a WAR over 3.0 and only 15.0 career WAR. He didn't have much in terms of power, no speed, not great defense, he was a very one dimensional player.

Manny is the best right handed hitter I have ever seen.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

He's up there for sure.

Dale Murphy, Steve Garvey, Dwight Evans, Bill Buckner, Al Oliver but the one that I cannot believe is not in the HOF is Luis Tiant ... Louie Tiant definitely belongs in the HOF!

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Interesting list. Thanks for sharing

@Robert-qm5so

4 ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 I loved your video, by the way what is your personal feeling about pitchers like Luis Tiant and Mike Cuellar ?

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

@@Robert-qm5so Cuellar pitched for the Orioles of course and I think he was great for us. Tiant as well was great. The problem with any voting system is there are flaws. Not everyone is gonna get in and some that are borderline will and some that are borderline won't. It's a very subjective system

@Robert-qm5so

4 ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 it's so shameful the way the HOF operates😔, thank you kindly for replying back to me 😊

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

@@Robert-qm5so my pleasure. Take Care.

You are not mentioning the elephant in the HOF : steriods!

@birdlandnetwork83

23 күн бұрын

Thanks for the comments but if you watched the whole video I absolutely mentions PEDs. That being said this video isn't about whether they should be in the HOF or not. It's just a list of the 10 best players NOT in the Hall. Nothing more nothing less.

“The Cobra” Dave Parker

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

His name has come up in the comments alot.

@moelarrythecheese4507

4 ай бұрын

Big Pirates fan here. Thanks for lettin us beat you in 71 and 79

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

@@moelarrythecheese4507 not sure we let you beat us. We lost you won. Of course that was over 40yrs ago. Might wanna move on from those days. I guess as a Pirates fan you gotta be happy with the glory days because the current team......Well.....you know.

IDK if the omission of mention was intentional RE: Palmeiro & P.E.D.s but he's also not in the HOF bc of the infamous testimony in front of Congress where he lashed out (& wagged & point his finger in the process) by saying "I'VE NEVER DONE STEROIDS IN MY LIFE!!!!!". 5 months l8r, he was cited 4 P.E.D. use & suspended 10 games. Palmeiro then pulled a "mea culpa" & acted "remorseful" about it. That's probably the reason as 2 y he's been denied entry in2 Cooperstown.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good points on Palmeiro

@billybandyk0720

4 ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 U betcha. Nvrthlss; Palmeiro was alrdy a gr8 player b4 all of the P.E.D. FBS. Then again, his conduct b4 Congress is the ONLY reason as 2 y Palmeiro's NOT a HOFer.

Did anybody mention Mark McGwire? Incredible numbers.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Not many have mentioned him. Some have

@jprice6419

4 ай бұрын

@@birdlandnetwork83 Sosa and McGwire = The best home run race of all time. Fun to be a baseball fan that year

@MIKIEEYEZ1975

4 ай бұрын

Incredible STEROIDS!! 😂😂😂😂💩💩💩💩😎

Pete Rose played briefly for the Montreal Expos before The Cincinnati Reds reaquired him to be player/manager.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Yes he did.

@Mr-Angelo0U812

4 ай бұрын

​@@birdlandnetwork83and the Phillies

AL OLIVER!!!

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Interesting pick

Manny with the PED was at the extreme end of his career. A Rod popped 2 times and it was still in his prime years like he said 2002 and 2003 he admitted that he used them during the mvp season. Dwight Evans should get a look amazing glove and arm had the most or close to most homerun in the 80's. Whittaker definitely. Schilling definitely. Clemons yes bonds yes. Rose and Jackson yes. Sheffield yes.

@robwasilewski9273

4 ай бұрын

Raffy used and got caught his last season. Come on definitely deserves

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good list.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

The list wasn't about who deserves or doesn't deserve to get in. It was just a list of 10 players I thought were the best who weren't in. Nothing more nothing less. Why they're not in is an argument for another day.

Pete Rose and dick Allen should be in the HOF Pete Rose his the all time hits leader and he always ran to the base and back in the all star game he was running so hard to home and dick Allen always hits lots of home runs no matter how they treat the sport writer s

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

all good points.

@fratzogmopars

4 ай бұрын

It was said that Allen didn’t like to give post game interviews because by the time the interview was over all of the cold cuts would be gone off the buffet table in the locker room.

Andruw Jones was an incredible player for the Braves. Once he left Atlanta his career went south and just wasn't at the same level, competitively speaking. I thought the veterans committee had Murphy in, to my chagrin Morris and Trammell got in on that ballot. Allen was eccentric and refused to play on teams he was traded to. Bonds, Clemens were no doubt incredibly successful in their careers, as was Palmiero, the PEDs were the downfall to those stories. Rose is just sad considering the state of sports gambling today. Even though Jackson took the money, his play in that Series wasn't wasn't evident on his involvement.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Very good thoughts.

You have to release a second part because many players left who deserve to be named, such as: Gary Sheffield, Kenny Lofton, Billy Wagner, Visquel, Carlos Delgado, Beltran, Abreu and many more

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good list of players.

@dougclark7077

4 ай бұрын

Absolutely agree that Lofton should be in. It's shameful that he was only on the ballot one year. He was one of the best lead off hitters in his generation, plus a superior defensive player and a fantastic base stealer. I hope that he gets a second chance.

@jayl878

4 ай бұрын

Ken Caminiti

While I understand that these are your choices, and I respect that you have the right to pump up whomever you wish, I cannot agree with any. Allen is the only one that merits consideration in my mind. The rest are ones who gambled on baseball or did not play 10 years in the bigs which used to be a requirement. Frankly, in my view, there are no players not in the Hall of Fame who belong and probably three-quarters who are in do not belong.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Thank you for the reply but I gotta ask. I'm not pumping up anyone. Did you actually watch the full video or skim through it just to see the names? This isn't about who I think should or shouldn't get in the Hall of Fame. It's a list of the 10 best players IMO who are NOT in. That's it!! Nothing more Nothing Less. I couldn't care less if they get in and frankly don't think they should get in because they cheated in some capacity. Please don't assume you understand my motives unless you know me or watched the video. Which you obviously didn't. I AGREE THEY SHOULD NOT BE IN!! THAT WASN'T THE POINT OF THE VIDEO!! Good Lord!!!

Wow, where have you been

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Right here!! Welcome

It's hard to get in if you played less than 15yrs. Dick Allen 's played just 11 full years and than quit. Wasn't any good after taking 1 or 2 yrs off. There are many I saw from the 1970's who played from 65-85 era who are deserving and more qualified than others on steroid .15 men can be listed, maybe 20. ROSE , T. JOHN, S. GARVEY , WITHAKER , MATTINGLY, GUIDREY , D Stieb , Bernie Williams, Jeff Kent. , K Hernsndez, of course Joe Jackson, Pete Rose. Will Clark

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Good names on that list.

Let the juicers and the cheaters in. For Johnson and Rose, it's overdue. For the juicers, they played under the conditions present at the time. (But I'd like to see their RECORDS stricken, restoring Aaron to the top, for example. Murphy is close, but his career fizzled out quickly. Ramirez isn't hurt by his lack of defense. It's the PEDs. Period. Jones is close. Fell off quickly. Never an MVP. Dick Allen played during the dead-ball '60s. He should be in. Palmeiro: PEDs. Clemens: PEDs. Johnson knew about the fix but didn't participate in it. It was unclear whether he understood his responsibility to report it. Things were much murkier back then. In fact, if you keep Johnson out, you also need to remove Cobb and Speaker, both of whom threw games. Rose didn't just gamble on baseball. He gambled on the REDS while managing them. It is not alleged that he bet against them, but as a manager, he could have been influenced to make certain roster and lineup moves based on his short-term needs regarding his bets. ARod: PEDs. Bonds: PEDs. And no, his pre-PED days as a future HoFer doesn't matter.

@birdlandnetwork83

4 ай бұрын

Love all the comments but this list isn't about whether they should or shouldn't be in. It's just a list of the top 10 not in IMO. Nothing more Nothing less. I don't think any of the PED guys should get in but that being said they were great ballplayers who didn't need PEDs but decided greed was more important. Everyone keeps commenting why they think they should or shouldn't be in. Doesn't matter that's not the point of the list.