That was an excellent video. It got me back on track. Take away message: "The objective of the Zettelkasten method is to develop ideas, not to have an organizational system for collecting information."

@forrestrperry

12 күн бұрын

Glad to hear it. Thanks for letting me know!

Perfect! I started my zettelkasten system creating five main categories regarding my Master and MBA in course, and with my work, and they are: ENVIRONMENT, WASTE, ENERGY, INNOVATION and BUSINESS. I also built another box just to include my bibliographic notes and references. I only have two box, but I hope to build a robust and productive system! Congrats to share your knowledge with us!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been intrigued by the idea of starting an analogue Zettelkasten for some time now, but didn’t have a clue where to start. Whereas so much information on this topic raised more questions for me than it answered, this video has made it crystal clear!

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment! I should inform you that if you watch a few more videos in the series, you will see that I have abandoned the idea of using what in this video I call “folder cards.” My reasons for doing so are laid out in the following post from November 2022: www.fpnotes.io/why-i-stopped-using-folder-cards-in-my-analog-zettelkasten/

This was excellent.

Thank you for your video. Seems that the main idea of a decentralized zettelkasten that Luhmann used is exactly to avoid creating it based on separate subjects (academia defined) but to let your zk grow organically and only adding entry point cards where needed. Instead of being trapped by such topic restrictions from the very beginning, you are free to let your ideas and research flow to wherever they lead you. So I respectfully deem this particular advice misleading. Looking forward to your further videos on the topic though!

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for your comment. You make a very important point here. I have to confess that what you've described is precisely what I started experimenting with several days ago. I believe Bob Doto gives similar advice (based on a post I read somewhere not too long ago), and I can pretty much guarantee he knows a heck of a lot more about the Zettelkasten method than I do. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when I adopt this piece of advice. One thing I'm HOPING will happen is that I won't spend quite as much time worrying about where to place a new card. Despite how many times I stress in my videos that you shouldn't worry too much about where to place a new card, I still find myself worrying more about it than I would like.

Thank you! I'm pretty new in the zettelkasten world after having read Ahrens and Shepherd's books, with only two hundred or so cards so far. I started with only two subjects as main level and a 10 or so branches that emerged quite naturally (literature, which is my area of expertise after my phd and experience as a uni lecturer, and psychology, which is the area i want now to specialize in order to change my professional path), your dive in structure is pretty interesting, thank you for this serie!

This video made me feel very satisfied with the way I'm managing my digital ZK. Thanks

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

haha. I think I MIGHT know what you mean-that a digital ZK is much better than an analog one. I use Obsidian to back up my analog ZK cards and to add information it wouldn’t make sense to try to add to a a physical card. In the near future, I hope to roll out a series about how I use Obsidian to complement the work I’m doing with my old-school ZK. Then you will CERTAINLY discover that the way I manage my digital ZK is far superior to yours or anyone else’s! (Yes, I’m joking-kind of).

I found that using the library catalog system is the best for me. I use two systems, one for everything else and one for academia.

Informative video. Thank you

this is SO helpful. thank you!

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

Glad it was helpful!

Thank you ! Very good explanation !!!

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

Glad you liked it. Just keep in mind that by the fourth or fifth video in this series, I say that using "folder cards" is a bad idea.

Zettelkasten​ analog so much fun.

Note cards seem thinner than I remember. Does anyone know of brand with a good weight?

I started with a digital version but also want an analog one. Awesome tips!

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

I hope you find the videos helpful. Just know that a few videos into the series, I advise AGAINST creating top-level categories, a.k.a. folder cards. My explanation of why I stopped using folder cards is here: www.fpnotes.io/why-i-stopped-using-folder-cards-in-my-analog-zettelkasten/

@jsunproter1940

Жыл бұрын

​@@forrestrperryI agree with you on that. Im trying to take advantage of the ermergent/evolutinary properites in this bottom up system. However I literally have a small library at my home based on the dewey system. I've already written 2 books with a more traditional top down approach. This 3rd book framework im currently writing will stem entirely from my ZK system. So far it has given me a few ideas via the connections I didn't anticipate. I like the idea of this system when doing research to somewhat avoid biases or industry dogma.

@jsunproter1940

Жыл бұрын

Yeah I'm only using keywords or tags as a type of search engine or entry point and letting the connections almost serendipitously happen. I think the value is in the connections and their meaning within their network. I started by using it project by project and let them gradually bleed into each over time

This looks to me like the approach of someone who thinks in hierarchical structures. I was drawn to Zettelkasten because trees had let me down. I think in connections, which cause networks of linked concepts, and thereby, densely connected clusters to emerge. Trees restrict thinking to 2 dimensions.

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment. Just so you know, a few videos into the series, I advise against creating top-level categories, a.k.a. folder cards. My explanation of why I stopped using folder cards is here: www.fpnotes.io/why-i-stopped-using-folder-cards-in-my-analog-zettelkasten/

What if I am not working on academic subjects?

Nice

I've seen Rayen holiday, and Robert Greene dedicate a Zettelkasten for each book.... do you guys set a full Zettelkasten per project? sure there's no right or wrong way to do it but I'm interested to know your feedback (for those who does it), how do you navigate managing two or three Zettelkasten at once, specially when there's overlapping or contradiction

Would love to hear a comparison of how you find teaching analog Zettelkasten to your students compared to RemNote, how they got on with each and what you found the benefits/drawbacks to be.

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your question. I'm not sure I'll be able to answer it directly, but hopefully what follows will be somewhat satisfactory. During the past couple of years when I was having my students use different apps (Notion, Remnote, and Hypernotes), I was doing little more than encouraging them to make connections between ideas (to engage in "linking their thinking," to borrow Nick Milo's terminology) and to collect relevant information all in one spot (using "tag pages" and what not). There is value in doing those two things, but if they're the only things you're doing, then you're basically just FILING IDEAS as opposed to developing them into LINES OF THINKING. The Zettelkasten method, as I understand it, is not (merely) about connecting and collecting ideas but also developing them into lines of thinking. To encourage my students to do the work of developing lines of thinking, I sometimes instruct them to find a card in their Zettelkasten and then ask one or more questions about what's on the card such that they can create a new card that amounts to a next step in a line of thinking. I think that's easier for them to do when they're staring at a single card. With apps like Remnote or Notion, by contrast, they were for the most part just seeing where the links they had created would take them, which, again, can be of some value, but it's not a great way to teach people how to think incrementally and well. (Teachers make mistakes sometimes-shocking, I know.) Moreover, when you use an old-school Zettelkasten, you find yourself over and over again looking at a bunch of your cards in an effort to find a good-enough place to put the new cards you make. Having to do that can be tedious at times, but repeatedly doing it amounts to a kind of spaced repetition that keeps connectable ideas in your head rather than being offloaded into a digital system, where they can all too easily be forgotten. ("Just run a search for relevant ideas in your app," plenty of people would say. Sometimes that works, but in my experience, search kind of sucks-or else how I conduct searches sucks.) All that said, I'm not an analog-only person. For the past two years, I have found Obsidian-especially when used with certain community plug-ins-to be so powerful that I want to combine the old-school Zettelkasten with what I have in Obsidian (I might make videos about just that in the future). Lastly, one of the drawbacks of teaching my students to use apps like Remnote or Notion is that some of them have difficulty learning how to use them, with the result that they spend more time trying to figure out how to use the app than to do the work of making notes, reflecting on what they're reading, and incrementally developing lines of thinking. Again, thank you for your question (and sorry if my reply didn't adequately answer it).

@chaecramb

Жыл бұрын

@@forrestrperry Thanks for the extensive reply, it was very interesting. On the subject of combining some of the benefits of an analog zettelkasten with Obsidian, if you haven’t already seen it you might find Bob Doto’s writing interesting.

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

@@chaecramb Yup, definitely familiar with Bob's writing-or rather several of his pieces and a nice talk he gave as part of the first Linking Your Thinking conference that Nick Milo put together. For you and/or anyone who hasn't seen that talk, I recommend checking it out. It is here: www.linkingyourthinking.com/lytcon/bob-doto-zettelkasten-101-a-primer-on-all-things-zettel.

Did Luhmann write down his thoughts directly on note cards? Or did he write those down in a notebook, edit them and then transfer them to the note cards?

Can you please tell me how did you make this tree structure diagram?

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

Hello. The app I used to create the diagram is Mindnode (for Mac and iOS).

awesome perfect thank you

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for the comment. Just know that a few videos into the series, I advise against creating too-level categories, a.k.a. folder cards. My explanation of why I stopped using folder cards is here: www.fpnotes.io/why-i-stopped-using-folder-cards-in-my-analog-zettelkasten/

@tomorrowkiddo

Жыл бұрын

@@forrestrperry good timing as I haven’t done that. Hub notes allow for the same permanent notes to be used in multiple projects so I would have been stumped by the idea of having project folders.

FP - Nice video. I'd like to share the concept of the MECE methodology with you. MECE is a method of grouping information (like notes) so that the groups (like folders) are mutually exclusive (ME) and collectively exhaustive (CE). In other words, the groups (folders) do not overlap and nothing falls through the cracks. The MECE methodology is commonly used by consulting firms. When most people start out developing groups (folders), they aren’t likely going to conform to the MECE method. As weeks and months roll by, a person typically will add more groups (folders). At some point in time, the person has so many groups (folders), it becomes more and more of a challenge for a person to remember the structure of his/her groups (folders) and to find the group (folder) where he/she previously put a specific item (note). It is common when adding a new item (note) that it is realized that it could logically be added to more than one group (folder). This will make it even harder to remember in the future which group (folder) it was it put in. The MECE method helps to minimize, if not completely eliminate, those problems.

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

Definitely had not heard of that before. Thanks for letting me know! I should add that I now advise against creating top-level categories, a.k.a. folder cards. My explanation of why I stopped using folder cards is here: [www.fpnotes.io/why-i-stopped-using-folder-cards-in-my-analog-zettelkasten/](www.fpnotes.io/why-i-stopped-using-folder-cards-in-my-analog-zettelkasten/)

@jimgrant1776

Жыл бұрын

@@forrestrperry - I clicked on your link. I got the infamous "404 Page Not Found" screen.

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

@@jimgrant1776 Oh crap. Sorry about that. This link should work: www.fpnotes.io/why-i-stopped-using-folder-cards-in-my-analog-zettelkasten/

@jimgrant1776

Жыл бұрын

@@forrestrperry Got it. Thanks. I'll check it out.

Choosing Categories seems to be a bit overwhelming. I am one of those who does not have a particular project I am working on though read about many topics, especially related to philosophy, psychology, mental models etc. Philosophy encompasses many areas of interest. How would you suggest choosing subcategories? Thank you.

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

Thanks for your question. I no longer recommend that people create categories and subcategories up front. This is something you'll find me saying in a later video about why I no longer use what I was calling "folder cards." For an explanation of why I abandoned this practice, check out the following: www.fpnotes.io/why-i-stopped-using-folder-cards-in-my-analog-zettelkasten/

@vincentincognoli8470

Жыл бұрын

Thank you for the reply. I will definitely check this out.

I am just getting started in creating a Zettelkasten. My topics would include the following: Level 1) HISTORY, Level 2) American History, Ancient History, European History, Russian History; Level 1) LANGUAGE & LITERATURE Level 2) Poetry, Non-fiction, Fiction (Outline), American Literature, English Literature, Russian Literature; Level 1) PHILOSOPHY, Level 2) Philosophy of History; Level 1) GEOGRAPHY, Level 2) Human Geography, Level 3) urban geography; Level 1) PSYCHOLOGY, Level 2) Personality Types; Level 1) MYTHOLOGY (what major topic would this fit in - or is it one of its own?); Level 1) GAMES (what major topic would this fit in - or is it one of its own?); Level 1) PARANORMAL/OCCULT (what major topic would this fit in - or is it one of its own?). Is this too many to start with? Your advice? (I have labeled the topics and subtopics as levels 1, 2 & 3).

@forrestrperry

12 күн бұрын

I’m pasting here my response to your related question about the other video you recently commented on… Scott Scheper and others do things this way, but if you do things this way [start off with a bunch of categories, or “folder cards,” that is], you are likely to spend too much time agonizing over the question of where exactly to put new cards. If you watch further in the Old-School Zettelkasten series, you’ll see that I abandoned folder cards. My explanation for why I did so can be found here: www.fpnotes.io/why-i-stopped-using-folder-cards-in-my-analog-zettelkasten/

I was looking of how to create my categories and I saw the video which is very explanatory.May we have your mindmap of categories and sub-categories for zettelkasten?

@forrestrperry

5 ай бұрын

I'm afraid not. If you continue watching the series of videos I made on building an old-school Zettelkasten, you will see that I decided against coming up with categories in advance. I explain why in this post: www.fpnotes.io/why-i-stopped-using-folder-cards-in-my-analog-zettelkasten/

With the self development how do you go about applying the new insights? But also you’ll be making new connections an asking questions how do you go about putting it into practice?

@forrestrperry

Жыл бұрын

I don’t really “apply” or “put into practice” the vast majority of the ideas I write about in my Zettelkasten, so I’m afraid I can’t be of much help in answering your questions. Sorry!

@panashephiri1912

Жыл бұрын

No problem, appreciate the reply

I think my zettelkasten is more a collection of book summaries along a similar theme.

What was described in this video, was it really Zettelkasten? I heard nothing about indexes and card identifiers. Or was it the video maker taking a famous word, Zettelkasten, and explaining his own thing instead? To me is sounded like he divides card boxes internally in smaller compartments by topic and then put cards in according to topic. That is not Zettelkasten, is it?

@forrestrperry

7 күн бұрын

Good question. There is no such thing as “really Zettelkasten” (and no such thing as “THE Zettelkasten method”). I didn’t realize that until reading a piece by Chris Aldrich that points out the variety of ways of using a Zettelkasten that predated Niklas Luhmann’s way of using a Zettelkasten (can’t find the piece right now, unfortunately). If you watch a little further into the video series, you’ll see that I pretty quickly abandoned the (very bad) idea of using folder cards. My explanation for why folder cards are a bad idea can be found here, in case you’re curious: www.fpnotes.io/why-i-stopped-using-folder-cards-in-my-analog-zettelkasten/

The writting of Scheper is unggle like hell. But the concepts on the mentioned video are quite interesting.

You shouldn't start by choosing topics... They must emerge by themselves, that's the whole ideia of the system.. This should be bottom-up and not top-down..

if you don't include biology, psychology and evolution in 1:27 then you are just getting misguided by those topics, is like trying to study architecture without soil mechanics or physics. you also should add some cybernetics to it.